Elyx
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Posts posted by Elyx
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The best about the last two posts is that people argued about jugger dps, but nobody seems to deny the tanking fact :-)
Odd that you mention the last 2 posts before yours when no one else in the thread brought it up either...
now...do you mean the fact that juggs are currently being used in end game tanking as we speak, and have no issues clearing? Why yes, I didn't bring the fact up because I already knew that juggs could do it.
another good reason to not bring it up is because the OP asked about leveling a jugg, not end game tanking. this isn't a "Juggs suck plz buff us nao" thread. the discussion just got off in that direction.
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I am 10/10 NiM 8 man main tank and working on 16 without having any problems on my end. Trash pulls are bs but I stopped caring bout holding everything, I hold what will hurt the dps and let the rest of the mobs free reign (this isn't saying I don't try with aoe taunts/grenades and the like just lose aoe agro so easily >.<).
I can easily say all the wipes i've encountered have not been to me dieing or me not having the right skill set/similar skill set of other classes.
This is my approach as well. Hold the big guys, protect the healer, rest is gravy.
And gratz on sticking with it OP. I echo you in the issue of perception, but interestingly enough, in reality I find myself that guild are happy with Jugg's as tanks. At least the 3 guilds that my juggs belong to have no problems running jugg's as tanks.
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Just to let you know, Jugg is a long road to go down. It pays off very well when you are very well geared and experienced in its playstyle. Everything before that is frustrating and a learning process.
This is just my opinion of course. I have other toons of lower assorted levels and they have a much easier feel to them. The Jugg is more complex in that there are many skills avail to you and is just a lot to digest for a beginner player.
If you feel you are a more advanced player than it can be a whole lot of fun due to how many utilities you have to deal with the various pvp scenarios.
I'll second most of this. learning curve for jugg/Mara is higher then most. Just keep that in mind. It basically means that if you find yourself frustrated, don't assume its a class issue. take a step back, a few deep breaths, and analyze the situation you were just in. then look at all the tools that we have and see if there was a better approach you could have used.
Juggs have a huge assortment of tools to use, takes awhile to fully grasp how they all can fit together. stick with it though, and you will end up with a class that you simply love to play. i have a hard time playing anything else now, my jugg(s) are simply too much fun. almost deleted it when I first started playing though. Glad i stuck it through.
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Thank you. I love you.
Ya know...it's not too hard to level a toon to 10 on the test forum...
...You could try it yourself and get those answers yourself. Call me independently minded, but I prefer that approach
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here's some nice hard names:
Val'kryn
Kallarok
Ko'vyr
Drekk
Akkaer
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ultimately, for maximum (whatever ), they want you to spec to the max in each tree. Hybrid specs are certainly viable, but pending your playstyle not optimal. And based on what they are doing to the current hybrid favorite in the sorc tree, they want to discourage that.
doesn't mean you can't do it. PvE play is flexible enough that you can run with a hybrid (currently doing just that on my merc). You can do it in PvP too...you'll get marks. May not score highest on the boards, but you'll do fine.
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That's all this thread is. The OP masquerading his request as PVE< but this is nothing but a PVP request.
Not going to happen.
Yup. I love how easily the PvP players disregard the PvE side of things during their conversations. Often you have to read 5+ posts into the thread till someone brings up the PvP word. Or you figure it out after they bring up terms like "1v1" or "healing other team" then your like.....oooooh....this is another stealth PvP thread. gotcha.
dont know what issue you guys have. My merc is doing fine. Oh but wait...yeah i don't PvP...yeah...sry guys. feel for ya. better luck next time.
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2 to 4 groups a WEEK.
When with a good lfg tool you be 2 to 4 groups a DAY.
I have already did 4 runs in rift today and just finished 2 runs in wow.
Thats 6 today alone.. Logging in to swtor to run ops with my guild then ill probably hope over to wow for a couple of more group runs.
so your saying that the slot machine that WoW has become is better....how?
Yeah. i can run that many groups. In which I could care less about the people I run with. and I could care less about the mobs, or the boss, or the loot. give me points! I am not hear to talk. please stop trying that mundane concept of conversation in chat! I am not paying attention. GOGOGOGGO! I have exactly 45m tonight to get my point cap for the week, and your casual conversation and jokes and your lack of knowledge of the instance run is getting IN MY WAY! can we kick this tank? he has obviously not ran this instance before. while were at it, lets kick the healer too, because everyone knows druid healers are noobs,,,
Stopped playing my Shaman when I realized it was a big slot machine. I certainly miss the grouping we had during the first month of SWtOR...but not enough to want an RDF like WOW.
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Interesting little game for those who want to play.
Visit this thread in a years time when everything has been fixed, and see how much QQ there is about whatever new end of world drama players have cooked up.
I guarantee you, year on year, for any game, ever, no matter which, on the forums, you will find the same QQ about everything and anything they can find to whine about. When one thing is fixed, it's like it never existed, and the next issue is the next reason why they are donning their blindfolds in front of todays execution squad.
I firmly believe they should issue every MMo player with a black band to wear on their arm.
QFT. if I had the space, I'd make this my Sig.
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Uhm it was 6pm EST and there 23 and then 9 people on the fleet in a matter of minutes......
It just sucks because things are never going to get better when the developers, employees, and fanboys continue to live in DENIAL of the crumbling population
Interestingly enough, I started searching for information on that. found a nice little graph Dulfy put together on her site. Not complete, but a nice snapshot of serer pops in the main planets. Dated Feb 24th (which means that teh summit, 1.2, and EU were not part of that number).
http://dulfy.net/2012/02/24/some-numerical-population-data-for-swtor-servers/
My first impression was...wow! there's a ton of servers! If anything should motivate you to support a merger process...that list would be it.
total servers on the graph for PvE/RP - 79
top number - 1079
bottom - 109
Average - 594
Based on the average, only 13 servers on that list are above that average. And yes, my math stinks, hopefully someone more interested in math will come along and be more precise about the details, but overall it is probably close. so...that leaves 66 PvE/RP servers that are under the mean.
now, on the note of population...as of early march (again, before 1.2 and EU players), press release was 1.7m, and they specifically stated that most of those were paid subs. when you compare that to the industry averages (no...WoW isn't the average...it's the freak poster boy), SWtOR is pretty high in base atm.
What does all of that mean? decent player base, WAY too many servers. they could cut that number by half, and just about every server would have great numbers. I personally think they should start doing server migrations by a few at a time. give 6 servers each month the ability to free xfer their toons, and at the end of the month, close server and merge to another.
It seems that they wanted enough servers available to avoid the "server death" that occurs on new releases. only problem is, they didn't merge after that. Other MMO's that do the opposite (less servers, more crash issues and servers full at release) are spared from having to merge after launch. to me, it's flip sides of a coin. Bio should take the hit and merge. Or at least allow groups of free transfers to see where people end up.
I think they're playing the wait and see game. if they close too many, and the game actually grows (like it's looking at doing atm), they don't want to have to re-add servers. But i think they're on the short end of that server stick. there's just too stinking many.
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You do know that GW2 are just using Public Quests... it's nothing new... Warhammer Online started it and Rift copied it.... I'm sure GW2 will be more advanced model of that system but it's nothing ground breaking or new..
tis true. On that note though, I did enjoy Warhammers world quests. and the rifting in rift was enjoyable, though it got grindy real fast. If a game could adapt it to be interesting, and profitable, but not necessarily a constant thing...could be worth checking out.
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Hey folks, ignore the troll. He's bored, and instigating peeps to amuse himself. best way to take care of a troll is to not respond.
On the topic...I was suprised on the PTR when i left the sith temple on korriban, and the sun was in a different position! i was almost excited...until I realized that it was still static...just in a different place. guess they didn't want all those new sith blinded coming out of the temple.
So, sounds like the are aware of the environment, and some of the issues revolving around it. I wonder if they just don't see it as technically cost effective at this point in the game development....I wish it was. I sort of like questing for a few hours, and notice that the sun is lower on the horizon.
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The question is, why are they switching? People don't suddenly create a new character of a specific class en masse just because they heard the story was good or because it initially appealed to them. They want the advantages that have been established by math and common sense over other classes.
You would think....
But as of yet there is exactly ZERO real data other then the patch notes and the forum whining. Bio even stated that there were behind the scenes mechanics (and more then just stat changes...they mention damage scaling as well, so there are root engine. mechanical changes as well).
But in spite of that...we have threads like this. so you wonder sometimes...how many will really follow the FOTM? perhaps this is some huge test on Bio's part to see how many FOTM players are out there. IT"S A CONSIPRACY !!!!
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He's saying that he plays a DPS sorceror and wants to roll another alt, and believes it comes down to arsenal spec merc vs pyrotech spec merc.
Arsenal plays the most like a sorceror, more cast times and such. Pyrotech wont pull off quite the same DPS for pve but has more burst potential and is more mobile.
You might also want to look at sniper if you prefer the caster playstyle. Cover is a pain to work with but as a caster you're already used to being stationary most of the time.
oooh TY for the clarification. totally misread that post then. disregard
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My experience is that until you're in your late 30's to 40, juggs are HORRIBLE. You lack the tools to put up any kind of decent fight, so you find even strongs your level can be difficult, and stay the heck away from elites your levels, don't even look at soloing h2's.
You don't have stealth, you don't have cc's, you don't have heals, so you're REALLY crippled until you can hit a ton OR lol at the damage mobs can do to you if you're tank spec'd.
My first jugg I leveled as vengance, got quinn and it was pretty easy after that. I could tackle elites "decently" in the 30's, good in the 40's, and at 50 their a joke.
My second Jugg I'm leveling as pur tank spec with DPS companions only. There is little to no change in leveling pace.
there are currently 3 champion mobs I've taken at level. that means I was the same level as they were. the first one was a ranged champ on Quesh. that's late 30's. i was running quinn, Vengance spec (i.e. dps), and finished the fight with 80% health.
In order to really tackle the big guys, you need to really optimize sequence and choose when to PoP CD's. CD's are a regular part of a Jugg's arsenal. it took me quite awhile to realize that. I came from an environment where CD's were "emergency" buttons. i realized that cycling in my CD's when they were available on my Jugg drastically reduced my downtime when playing.
I also noticed that "when" you pop CD's on tough mobs is just as important as popping them at all. throwing your Heroic call in too early wastes precious CD time. popping your defensive bubble just as a mob starts up a long induction wastes precious seconds of your CD. using your force push to interrupt an ability (such as the combat droids "shooting spree" can save you a ton of damage. same thing with force choke. waiting till you are in "dire straights' usually gets you dead.
Stuff like that. I Only put that stuff in to show that there are many things you have to think of when playing a jugg that all add up to a smooth fighting experience. I don't really have problems on my juggs when leveling them.
My third just is rolling rage with DPS companions only. pushing the envelope so to speak.
OP: If you are still wondering if you want to play your jugg...you may not. I have a lvl 14 Agent that is collecting dust. And that was my 4th attempt to play one. Yet at the same time 3 of the officers in my small guild have agent as their main. So I know it's not a class issue...it's just not "my" class
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Yet they are doing more and more to make that not the case. Which is good. It needs to be balanced between both to retain more gamers of both crowds.
Crash was bad for Immortal Jugs from a min/max standpoint.. Of course Immortal Period was bad fro a min/max view point, and the Venge/Immortal Hybrid was a lot better.
that could probably be argued pending your overall viewpoint. i believe that you can't balance on the two equally...One will always win out. most Dev's tend to favor the PvP crowd, as they are the most worried about balance. PvE players Dont like the changes, but we will take a small hit in the grand scheme of things. mostly because winning is more important to a PvP player.
I think that they could separate the two more clearly, but few dev's are willing to put that effort into it. LotRO did an amazing job of creating an isolated PvP game that was balanced, yet did not interfere with the PvE game.
aside from that, onto the OP: Crash was mediocre at it's tier. It wasn't worth being that high in the tree (4 sec stun would have been). but putting it too low would make it take the place of a talent that a PvP player would possible want instead. they could tack a 2 sec stun onto one of the current existing Immortal talents, or give it its own point, and make it 4 seconds.
Personally, I think a better option would be a talent to allow smash to stun silvers as well, put it high in the immortal tree. that IMO is worth it.
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T_T I really dont want to put this class on a shelf but I want to make a truly effective endgame tank and in this game that requires some aoe threat generators... not just taunts
I think this is the crux of the issue. without playing at endgame at 50, your making decisions based solely on patch notes and what others are saying. here's a few facts:
1) Jugg's are currently playing and raiding endgame content without any issues. Repeat...Jugg's are tanking and DPS'ing endgame content with no issues. And the are getting buffed in 1.2, whereas PT's are getting a (mild) nerf.
2) Jugg is a more technically challenging class to play (not horribly so, bit it's there) so not everyone will get the best results from them.
3) Player perception is usually wrong. the stats on sheer numbers of Juggs being played is directly opposite of what seems to be the current player viewpoint. If you just read the forums, you would believe that 1: Juggs suck at tanking, and 2: jugg's suck at DPS. but the sheer numbers of people playing the class (2nd highest on Bio's count) say something different. Believe it or not, the PT is one of the least played, even though the popular rumor is that they are "great" tanks.
4) the necessity of AoE threat is a hotly discussed issue, but there are plenty of people on BOTH side of the argument. I personally am in the field of "we don't need AoE threat when DPS can individually target and take down silvers on their own. If i can hold 2-3 mobs ill be fine. but I can currently do that.
the only thing in question is...what do you enjoy playing? Because of player bias (read, not factual), it will be a bit tougher to get a raid spot. But you will be able to find one if you keep at it (i.e. find a decent guild that knows what it's doing). If you want FOTM and auto-invite, you may want to go Assassin. I hear the EZ mode players are possibly heading in that direction (at least until they're nerfed too)
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I agree with you OP. definitely a confusing issue. I haven't experienced it yet with her though due to a bigger story issue...story breaking IMO.
jaesa story pretty much halts if you are light side.
I'm sure they want people to have options for good vs. bad (and I don't want to cross threads for this issue), but you choose light, and she is fine with it...that initial conversation. but after that she responds negatively to any choice you make that goes along with what she said she was going to do!
When I chose the light option, I basically said that I was fighting the dark by being a "plant". She agrees that it's a good idea and she wants to go with me. But from that point on, any choice I make that involved helping people, i get negative points. Actually I rarely get ANY positive points on her ( could be that im capped on light). but from the get go, the whole jaessa storyline just dies.
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First off, Jugg's are awesome
My favorite class!Secondly, score boards are a horrible way to determine viability. there are soo many variables in a PvP game that a scoreboard really only shows you who was lucky that day.
lastly, there is no current data showing that ANYONE does more damage then ANYONE else. if you were to look at 1.2 changes solely to determine who was the most OP, it would be Sorc/Sage by a longshot (hybrid build only). based solely on 1.2 changes, Mara's almost looked like an under performer. juggs' got a mild buff. mara's got more of a buff. so in spite of "Player perception", Bio thought that Jugg's were in a decent spot for DPS, but mara's needed some help. in some ways (some players argue about some of the Mara buffs for PvP).
I've played MMO's long enough (10yrs or so) to know NOT to trust player perception. But Dev's also can miss things (and the current testing environment isn't conductive to empirical testing atm, so it doesn't help). Only thing we can do is wait till combat logs come out, and people start posting data.
Until then, It's all anecdotal information. And the Mara/Jugg class are both tactically challenging enough to play that you HAVE to consider player skill into the mix. given that, the actual tests i see people doing show Mara's and Juggs very close. close enough that it doesn't matter which one you prefer.
The times I see people state that Mara's do more DPS are either 1: with no real data or tests to prove it, or 2: they post PvP scoreboards (read my second comment above). I don't think that Jugs are better, but I KNOW that most people go purely off of personally perception, which after 10 yrs in the industry has proven itself to me to be very INCORRECT.
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I have a hard time playing anything dark. Only have one alt that is, and I have to force myself to make the dark choice at times...even with that shes still about 75dark/25 light.
that being said, here's my take on my Warriors personality (i.e. justifying my light sith).
She actually came from a republic upbringing. Didn't find out until later that her mother had married a "converted" sith (revanite) and that he had died fighting in the wars. She decided to investigate her background, and foung that her father was part of a very dominant Sith bloodline (the family still held ruling votes on dromund).
Once her sith family found out, they requisitioned her to the sith academy. She initally thought of fleeing, but her desire to do the greater good made her decide to enter the academy, and work good things from within.
She quickly realized that working with Baradis would get her involved more deeply with teh sith order(from where she could do the greatest good). dealing with her previous master was a challenge, but opportunity allowed her and him to survive, and still convince baradis that he was dead. from her position she carefully contrived just enough of a background "revenge" story to fool baradis to believing shes was on his side.
...I could go deeper but I don't want to ruin the story. suffice to say it made for some challenging decisions when it came to quest responses. i actually had to sit back and think on allot of those before making the choices. This made the storyling VERY fun.
TL - DR: I roleplayed the "hidden" plant on sith side to do good things. This took the good storyline, and made it a blast to play, with lots of tough decisions.
"The true Revanite seeks battle where it will do the greatest good. At this current time it is with the Empire. the light shines the greatest in the darkness..."
-Yldriss Krassus, Personal memoirs of a Revanite.
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You can gear him up with whatever you like. PvP gear may not be the best (much of it is limited to "classes" of which he is not one). Plus it's not itemized for companions.
Quinn is a healer in the vein of the OP, as you mentioned in your post. But because he rarely is in the "face" of battle, his need for defensive stats is minimal. I've had the best success with gearing him up in gear/mods that favor Cunning over Endurance (i.e. pick up a mod that has 20 cunn/15 end over one that has 20 end/15 cunning).
other then that favor power over crit/surge. you don't need to go into much more detail then that. do that, and keep his gear up to date (level appropriate), and he will be a healing machine, and even add to your DPS decently.
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that actually could be fun.
they could add the ability to re-run the class quests on the "new" faction, so you can gain the new companions, and experience the story from a different perspective. The rewards could be based on current level, or commendations (dailies perhaps, instead of planet appropriate.), so your not losing by playing the opposite fraction instead of "grinding" dailies.
I bet they'd get a ton of positive responses from that option. Interesting idea OP!
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If you are a really good Sorcerer -DPS- which AC of another class would be your thing?
I guess it would come down to Arsenal Vs Pyro? Right?
Am I missing something here? those are Bounty hunter trees you listed up there...are you asking about a sorc or BH?
Sorc trees are:
Corruption: healing tree.
Lightning: DPS. Bit more emphasis on AoE Via procs.
Madness: DPS. Bit more emphasis on CC.
both trees are viable, it really depends on what you prefer. The current favorite is a hybrid spec that's only viable because Bio dropped the ball and made too many powerful abilities too low in the trees. They are killing that spec in 1.2, so It's pretty much going to be either/or.
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I think the issue involves allot of parameters:
1) server populations are small enough that smaller population trends can have an impact on the needs of groups.
2) most players are either seriously Alt'ing, or are leveling an Alt waiting for new HM"s to come around. either way, most people have a main to feed their alts with seriously OP gear. And that's if they don't play PvP. back when the game was new, and people didn't have purples stacked (and they didn't have experience with the game, like running a 4th toon through the same FP's), you needed a tank. I remember early on having to respec into a tank spec in my mid 20's simply because people were still L2P mode. most of us are auto-play now.
3) they made PvP in this game and awards for PvP far to easy to accomplish. Add to that the fact that there isn't enough of a disparity between PvP stats and Pve stats, and why would you try to get 4 people together when you can auto-Q for a PvP run while you do dailies? It's basically the SWtOR version of RDF, but it's PvP only. it all adds up to the fact that PvP is easy to do, easy to get to, and the rewards are Easy. If they tied in higher level gear in PvP with rated PvP, you would see the number of people Q-ing drop DRASTICALLY for PvP. It would only prove how easy it is currently to get gear in PvP.
4) the games economy is unbalanced. at lower levels, on your first toon, you suffer for either cash or resources. At 50, it flows like water. I've payed for 6 different alts for their speeders and crafting on my main, and still average over 500k collecting dust, and that's just from dailies. getting gear from the AH or a crafting alt is easier then trying to pick up a group for FP's. even though they can be fun.
5) rewards for grouping early on are slim. the gear you get is outleveled within 5 levels, and you can make just as good from crafting. The Social point system is a fantastic idea, but needs more fullness to really be enticing. Unless your a light armor wearer, there's nothing worth buying. Most people get just enough social points to gear up a companion or two in the dancers outfit and leave it at that. Not to mention that no actualy FP's are worth their spit for Social points past BT/Eselles. why struggle through a level-appropriate run for 20-30 pts when you can speed run BT/Ess and get 180-300 points in half the time? SP accruement needs to be rebalanced.
Sorry for the spam, but its just a piece of all the reasons people aren't running FP's while leveling anymore. I was running them non stop the first 2-3 weeks of the game. a month later, they were ghosts towns.
And if you don't run FP's, theres no reason to roll a "tank" unless you simply want to play the spec. Now....Im currently leveling 2 alts as tanks SOLELY, and with a DPS companion they level fast and quite stable. Not quite as fast as the same class with a healing compaion in DPS spec, but the flexibility is fun. SWtOR is one of the few MMO's that leveling a tank spec can actually be fun.
So how many players already switched to mara/sent for upcoming patch
in Combat Styles
Posted · Edited by Elyx
Not necessarily Macro. Now... I'm definitely not saying that you will/will not have an easier/harder time. the class may simply fit your playstyle well in this game. I've had plenty of people who play other classes great try out the Jugg/Mara and hate it. another guy in my guild just hit 50 on his second Maurader. My second jugg is 33 (first 50), and I'm rolling a third on another server. You may have found your niche.
Secondly, the ease of a class playing isn't dictated completely by their "OP" ness or lack thereof. ALL classes have it easy early on. There's a few points in the game where this difficulty ramps up. You will be cruising along fre as a bird, hit your next planet, and wonder why you are dying so much. jsut wait till you hit Voss and try out the silvers there...I think I was taking about twice as much damage just going from the previous planet to there.
And lastly, before you go calling the Mara "easyto level" try out either A: a PT bounty hunter, or B: an Assassin inquisitor. compared to my Jugg, I almost fall asleep playing those classes. So the ultimate result is play more before coming to that decision. Just because a class plays easy now does not mean they will be easy later on.
on the flip side, although my juggs got more difficult to play later on, leveling became easier as I got used to all their new skills. both the mara and Jugg are fantastic classes when you get them down.
FYI...just about all the classes can solo heroic 2+ on level if you play them well.