Biochem is NOT overpowered...

[Aepervius]

Sorry but i thought this was crafting, to make profit, and to sell goods area. Not what can benifit ourselves the most. Reusable items = no resale, no repeat customers, and no business. It only helps those that take biochem keeping the items for only biochem drasticaly reduces sales. Its not overpowering, but it hurts the economy. More i sell, more resources i need, more i buy off of others. If i just use a resuable one there is no need for me to buy more resources. Its stagnates the economy.

 

For those that said all the time and money spent to level to 400 should ahve special perks, well obviously you didnt feel that way when you were crying about slicing. Its just because it benifits you, not the entire server.

 

You can#t sell those reusable today *anyway* since they have biochem requirement (can't use unless you have 400 biochem) and if you have 400 biochem you likely will do your own purple anyway.

 

The only thing you *can* sell is the blue one.

[Aepervius]

Of course i want ot make profits idiot. Thats what crafting is for. Economy is ran by profits, the market is ran by profits. Any time you buy something someone is getting profits.

 

That is what crafting is for in *other* previous game.

 

Do you have any evidence it is the case here ? There is a lot of evidence it seems actually that crafting is only a pass time to help you levelling but not get rich.

 

Its a business, we invest our time, money, and resources into something.........of course we want profits. If we didnt why else pick up crafting and play the market? We could just constantly grind and sell to npc vendors if we didnt.

 

Oh you are the ones that just make items for themselves, im happy for you. I do also. But there is nothing wrong with wanting or making profits from your goods. Otherwise whats the point?

 

You people need to decide if you want crafting as an economic booster or crafting as a self helping. Because one will kick start the economy, the other does nothing fo benifit the game, just the player.

 

 

 

Consider that you might have missed the point, as TOR seems much more single player oriented than any traditional MMO.

[RocNessMonster]

Of course i want ot make profits idiot. Thats what crafting is for. Economy is ran by profits, the market is ran by profits. Any time you buy something someone is getting profits.

 

Its a business, we invest our time, money, and resources into something.........of course we want profits. If we didnt why else pick up crafting and play the market? We could just constantly grind and sell to npc vendors if we didnt.

 

Oh you are the ones that just make items for themselves, im happy for you. I do also. But there is nothing wrong with wanting or making profits from your goods. Otherwise whats the point?

 

You people need to decide if you want crafting as an economic booster or crafting as a self helping. Because one will kick start the economy, the other does nothing fo benifit the game, just the player.

 

 

Methinks you should try EVE if your looking for a serious economic simulator.

[GengisKahn]

Its not OP but its bugged. I'm sorry but Biochem is useful at level 50 and that's unintended and needs to be fixed.

 

Unintended? Its intended, the part i think its unintended is its OPness in PVP.

 

Also, i think the unintended part is the rest of the crafting skill not being usefull.

[Ithril]

You can#t sell those reusable today *anyway* since they have biochem requirement (can't use unless you have 400 biochem) and if you have 400 biochem you likely will do your own purple anyway.

 

The only thing you *can* sell is the blue one.

 

 

And wouldn't it be nice if you could?! That's the fix I'm most behind. At least until the other crew skills get fixed, make all biochem items sellable. Then nobody has to change crewskills to be on par with Biochems, and Biochems get to make a little more money. Everybody wins.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Ithril

[Amose]

I am so tired of the screams for nerf. I max slicing based on how it WAS working just to have it nerfed to pieces. They even removed all gathering nodes from PVP areas so I couldn't do manual labor to still make money.

 

So then I start noticing how useful Biochem is and I pick it up, probably invested over 100K in just leveling Biochem from purchasing mats. This got old very quickly as alot of the mats needed were not on the GTN so what do I do? I drop my 400 slicing to Bioanalysis and within a DAY I have it up to 360.

 

People need to stop their ************, if you don't like your skill or want to take advantage of the "**** OP Biochem", quit crying and pick up the skill.

 

I don't get why everyone wants to nerf everything they don't have.

[Ithril]

I am so tired of the screams for nerf. I max slicing based on how it WAS working just to have it nerfed to pieces. They even removed all gathering nodes from PVP areas so I couldn't do manual labor to still make money.

 

So then I start noticing how useful Biochem is and I pick it up, probably invested over 100K in just leveling Biochem from purchasing mats. This got old very quickly as alot of the mats needed were not on the GTN so what do I do? I drop my 400 slicing to Bioanalysis and within a DAY I have it up to 360.

 

People need to stop their ************, if you don't like your skill or want to take advantage of the "**** OP Biochem", quit crying and pick up the skill.

 

I don't get why everyone wants to nerf everything they don't have.

 

 

Can't speak for everyone, but I'll speak on it for me. From an individual standpoint, that works. But what about guilds? As a guild, we tried to make sure we had at least 1, often 2, of every profession. Clearly that is looking like a mistake right now, because we'd be much more effective in PvP and (debateably) in PvE if we had simply all gone biochem, and maybe mixed in a cybertech or two. I'm the only armormech in my guild. It makes me hesitant to change because things always change in MMOs and if suddenly armormech becomes important, I don't want to leave the guild in a lurch.

 

Let's say we follow your advice, and my whole guild switches to Biochem. But what happens when they nerf/buff? Now armormech or armstech or Artifice becomes OPed, and everybody has to decide whether or not they change. Plus, as a guild, if you want to do operations with high level schematics dropping, it would be nice not to have so much overlap. It's a stupid dance. Why not just get rid of the crewskill dependent requirements on everything until they can at least add some sort of bonus to every crewskill?

 

Again: I agree with you, don't nerf biochem...just take away the biochem only requirements from things until similarly advantageous items are added to all crew skills.

 

edit: all that said....i've pretty much decided I'm just going to level an armormech alt and let my main be biochem. It's pretty easy/cheap to switch in this game if you only craft greens with lots of companions anyway.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Ithril

[Zennshi]

It would be cheaper to make it yourself even if not reusable. It is not like it is difficult to level. Compared to other skills it has been rather quick and easy.

 

As for reusable being the reward for leveling? That is likely why people who have other crafting professions at 400 are complaining. From what I have seen on these forums, this is one of the only skills that gives you something you can't just buy from a vendor.

 

I agree, people shouldn't be asking for it to be nerfed - they should be asking for all other professions to give the same benefits. Nerfing everything just means everything is crap!

 

Its like slicing all over again, except this time people are being reasonable. Nice.

[egpd]

So nerf a profession just to please pvpers? What about the majority of people who dont pvp?

 

Also, dont whine because you chose a crappy crew skill and others didnt. If you have played ANY MMO over the last few years then you'd know that consumables professions are always going to > equipables professions. You can raid and get better gear. You cant raid and get useful items like consumables and the utility they bring.

 

You made a bad choice because you wanted to make armor so you can look like Boba Fett or make a litle gun to go "pewpew". Quit ************ and get over it.

[Phlaago]

The way I see it is that biochemists get a PvP advantage that is not available to other players unless they own the bank...

 

im talking about adrenals mainly.

and clearly the cost of singleuse adrenals is the key problem here...

 

how about making the adrenals green quality instead of blue?

or at least making their material requirements similar to a green product.

this would make adrenals more viable to use as noone wants to spend 6k (figure taken from air... someone said 6k earlier) for a singleuse 15s buff.

 

the way I see it green quality medpacks and the ones that also heal you companion are already useful on a regular basis and even buying those from crafters is a good idea (at low levels at least much cheaper than from medical vendor)

 

the persistant 120m stims are useful because of their persistance and the secondary power or defense buff not present on vendor stims.

[LordQbical]

that would definitely suck if they nerfed Bio.

[leihn]

Solution:

 

Do what WoW did.

 

Step 1.

Separate PvP consumables and PvE consumables. Make PvP consumables considerably more affordable but restricted to PvP.

 

Step 2.

Give perks to individual crew skills or remove perks from existing crew skills, doesn't really matter either way.

 

Example:

1. Biochem - Stims gain an extra X Stats, Reusable Medpacs

2. Armstech - BoP Barrels gain an extra X Stats, ability to add Barrel Slot to Weapons, no-cost Barrel Removal

3. Armortech - Ability to add additional Augments/Mods to Belt/Bracers where there wouldn't be said mods previously, no-cost to unsocket those slots

 

Cybertech and Artifice follow Armstech pattern, Synthweaving follows Armortech pattern.

 

The downside I guess is that armstech and artifice would be restricted to force/non-force classes.

[bunnyhop]

Biochem isn't OP...the other skills are just useless.

 

Unless Bioware's purpose was to make all crafting just a credit and time sink with no real rewards...in which case yes Biochem definately needs a nerf.

[sfryman]

Biochem isn't "over-powered", but it is the best crew skill by far for end-game.

 

I don't think most people pointing this out are calling for nerfs on biochem, they just want the other skills to get some usefullness too.

[Blackardin]

They either need to buff the other skills or decrease the usefulness of Biochem.

 

Buff, not nerf. Nerfing is lazy.

 

Each end game skill should have something exceptionally useful to the crafter and another that is worthy of sale. Armstech should have something in the realm of weaponry that is a bit more then others can have. Armortech should have a self use armor pack. Bio has its stims and heals.

 

Was a happy day when chanters in wow got their self only chants, smiths got their slots, Taylor's got their threads....all to match JCs buffed gems.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Blackardin

[Apax]

Are... people seriously asking for a skill to be nerfed because it doesn't TOTALLY SUCK IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY?! The other crafting skills need a buff, hell probably even this one in the long run.

 

What it comes down to, and I don't think anyone can argue against this without looking like a complete fool, is that all the crafting skills need to be brought in-line with one another. They all need to be equally effective and appealing, preferably in their own unique ways.

 

It's simple to say "don't nerf this, buff everything else", but it's a pointless suggestion unless the developers actually intend to make crafting useful. Because right now, all the crafting skills are useless except for Biochemistry.

 

At this point I don't care if Biochemistry gets nerfed until it's in line with all the other crafting skills or all the other crafting skills get buffed until their up to par with Biochemistry. But ultimately one of those things HAS to happen. Not changing anything and sweeping this under the rug is unacceptable and ridiculously broken. And anyone arguing otherwise is only interested in protecting their investment and maintaining an unfair advantage.

[DarkeGBF]

So nerf a profession just to please pvpers? What about the majority of people who dont pvp?

 

Also, dont whine because you chose a crappy crew skill and others didnt. If you have played ANY MMO over the last few years then you'd know that consumables professions are always going to > equipables professions. You can raid and get better gear. You cant raid and get useful items like consumables and the utility they bring.

 

You made a bad choice because you wanted to make armor so you can look like Boba Fett or make a litle gun to go "pewpew". Quit ************ and get over it.

 

Uh oh, someone's scared their free stats/heals/trinket might get nerfed!

[scfs]

Instead of calling Biochem OP can't we call the others UP?

Crewskills should have perks, Biochem has a loverly perk. Lets not ruin it D:

[Atreiya]

I wasn't even aware that people were flipping out about biochem until I popped in to check some artificing info. I'm an artificer doing my own thing because I enjoy it and get a kick out of it. While I'd like to see more impressive enhancement stats on artifact-level items and some sort of nifty perk (like no-cost enhancement removal as suggested by one poster earlier), I don't really see a need to nerf biochem into the ground. Can't they just add some kind of warzone-specific cooldown to the reusable consumables or something like that for those who feel that they're an issue in PVP?

[DVSvictim]

atm bio is the only skill worth having, the way i see it, if you dont have bio your a total noob/idiot

 

but its not op, the rest of the skills are just 'up' as in like TOTALLY USLESS lol they need a serious boost, but then again where can they go with them? materials are so easy to get and dont consume more than a few mins of your time, just to send 5 companions on missions. plus they wont want them being better than anyhting you could get from pvp/pve. crafing system is an ok idea but realy badly implemented. you should have to work for high end matts. not just click a button and hope you crit lol

[Juicenewtonz]

Its not OP, its just by far the most profitable in the long run (since you wont need to buy medpacks / stims / adrenals ever again).

 

But as a pvper who isnt a raider with a guild to supply infinite stims / adrenals too its an absolute godsend of a profession

[POPsi]

My 2 cents here... I also have Biochem, at around ~350. I have never really had issues with money, but I don't consider myself too rich either. I can allow myself to buy some stuff from GTN, but altogether crafting takes away more money than I get from it... at least for now. It's simply not possible to keep up crafting everything that's in demand. E.g I only learn and make stims and medpacks for myself. There's not a high demand for those at lower levels, so why bother. Sure it is good for me, but does not give any income. It's kind of a convenience stuff atm.

 

What I make some money from is crafting implants. I've learned and got like 10 different implants up to blue quality, between level of 25-37. Whenever I have the materials, I craft a few of them, put it on GTN, and they always sell for a reasonable price. I try not to make them too overpriced, and so far I didn't have to throw them out, not a single time, nor put them up more than once. So there's a demand for these. I don't make a bank out of it, but it is still nice, and definitely not OP altogether.

 

Of course the best implants require some materials that are hard to get, they are usually not sold on GTN either, so it's a pain sometimes to get them.

 

I'm level 40, I currently have speeder pilot rank 2, a rank 2 mount, 2 additional bag slots, and 1 additional bank bay. And I have 300k credits. As for my gear, it's mostly up-to-date from lvl40ish instances.

 

So I would not say biochem is OP up until lvl 50 from any perspective. That may change later on with the uber medpacks and stuff, but from an economical point of view I don't think biochem will make you rich.

[Kyrandis]

Biochem isn't OP. However past getting to 50 it is the only useful crafting skill. I know for a fact cybertech became useless at 50. I had 2 epic armoring mods for all of a day or so until I replaced them with PvP epics. Of which come with better mods than I could ever create.

 

I am honestly hoping Bioware brings the other in line with biochem. The rest weren't even useful leveling up considering you could mod your gear with commendations.

 

Edit: Basically its 5 pieces of crap and an apple. Whether or not you like apples you're gonna pick it over the rest. Doesn't make apples op when the rest of the choices are...lol lackluster by comparison...

Edited January 4, 2012 by Kyrandis

[iamnoobplzhelp]

Here's where I am coming from in the crafting standpoint. Me and a close group of RL friends got into the game and we planned out who would take which crafting skills. We decided we would craft things for each other, and for the most part we can. Where it gets really crappy is when they make some of the craft-able require the skill to use it, or BOP. For example, initially the purple medpacs (reusable) did not require a bio-chem skill. During the last phase of Beta and release they now require a Biochem skill, which means I can't trade it.

 

I don't care about making money from it, I initially thought that my friends and I would benefit from taking different crafting skills. But it seems the most benefit will only come to the person who took the crafting skill. This is is B.S. in my opinion. They would make the items harder to make, or make the crafting materials harder to obtain, but to restrict them from being used at all? Seems like a poor bandaid to a so far poor crafting system.

 

Also, crafting is pretty useless once you hit 50. All the high level gear you get as a drop and your crafting skill becomes pointless. Right now the only thing I use crafting for is to equip lower level toons. I hope they change crafting to make it actually useful in end-game content. Maybe have a half craft half loot system?

[XChub-ChubsX]

Level another crew skill and what? Realize you wasted your time and credits?

 

Exactly...biochem is definitely not op but it is better than what yall are making it out to be. Yall are missing really the main point. The Rakata reuseable medpacs are the blue critted version and purple version of the Ultimate medpacs combined on steriods. Yall are saying that you will just buy the Ultimate medpacks the blue version but if i were to sell them i would sell them for a high price seeing as how it is hard make. You would be spending all your money on my medpacs which in turn i can use to on whatever. I could probably use the money i get from making my medpacs to fund getting the rare materials needed for the medpacs and farm the rest of the materials myself and make a hefter profit.