Stop the nerf calls for Operatives.

[Lord_Karsk]

SHIV BACKSTAB SHIV BACKSTAB 3k 3k 3k 3k 3k.

 

This class is ruining pvp.

 

This, thats it. I dont whine over players that is my skill lvl killing me in PvP but when a AC skill is just destroying PvP. Then that class must be and will be nerft no matter how much the players playing this class is screaming noooo you must be a bad player learn to play bla bla

 

The truth is the truth get over it.But i dont blame the bad players playing a OP class to

to actually be able to winn some foghts, i blame the devs for not having the dev skills to make balanced classes...

[goulet]

This, thats it. I dont whine over players that is my skill lvl killing me in PvP but when a AC skill is just destroying PvP. Then that class must be and will be nerft no matter how much the players playing this class is screaming noooo you must be a bad player learn to play bla bla

 

The truth is the truth get over it.But i dont blame the bad players playing a OP class to

to actually be able to winn some foghts, i blame the devs for not having the dev skills to make balanced classes...

 

how's that nerf argument going with sage/sorcerer which there have been nerf trains for more then a year now?

[Callistoh]

Since most are saying that the people dying <5 seconds are low levels or have no expertice i'll post a different view.

As a lev 50 sniper with 10% expertice there is Nothing i can do against a operative once he has opened on me. Maybe if hes unlucky with crits i will leave the knockdown with 30% hp. All he has to do now is pop evasion and totally wipe the floor with me, while all i can do is preatty much hope that some healer saves me.

Hell even my level 50 powertech with full champ pvp gear drops like a fly when a operative gets to open.

[LaurV]

Operatives are op indeed. And not cc is the main problem, but the HUGE damage burst. Edited January 2, 2012 by LaurV

[thefishdude]

There's nothing stopping you taunting regardless of technique, which you probably know but chose to ignore here. I'm well aware that guard requires the tanking stance, that's the case with all tanks.

 

No shadow speced in infiltration would ever use Taunt. We're already a squishy class; so, why would I want to take 50% damage from a sage or other dps player. You missed my point. Not all shadows can just switch to a tank in mid combat.

[Gratus_Mortuus]

As a 50 operative myself in semi champion pvp gear, I can absolutely obliterate people during a knockdown but they are level10-30 noobs in bad gear and are bad players.

 

"Bad" or "Good" player has nothing to do with it and you know it. If you don't, then just stop posting. You are an operative and have zero perspective from the opponents experience. BW needs to fix both classes and that can ONLY Happen if BW plays them and learns for itself what is needed.

 

I have no faith this will happen so suggest every one roll one of the two and send a message to BW it can't ignore.

 

The quote below shows just how out of touch the OP and other Operatives & Scoundrels are.

 

Since most are saying that the people dying <5 seconds are low levels or have no expertice i'll post a different view.

As a lev 50 sniper with 10% expertice there is Nothing i can do against a operative once he has opened on me. Maybe if hes unlucky with crits i will leave the knockdown with 30% hp. All he has to do now is pop evasion and totally wipe the floor with me, while all i can do is preatty much hope that some healer saves me.

Hell even my level 50 powertech with full champ pvp gear drops like a fly when a operative gets to open.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Gratus_Mortuus

[Obie_Wan]

Taunt doesn't divert damage to you, it only reduces damages others do to your teammates for a few seconds unless they turn around and hit you a few times.

 

You're thinking of guard.

[Hayemaker]

My only real problem with ops/ scoundrels is how easily they can stealth escape.

[Knifewrench]

People playing this class know they're going to get screwed over because it's obvious how easy it is, but they don't actually have any convincing argument as to why they should keep it. "Glass cannon", my ***. Oh well. We can't blame them for trying to keep their faceroll status.

[XenonParsec]

Posting in this thread to support the calls to nerf stealth classes and their ridiculous one-trick pony attack.

 

If you people playing ez mode really need a big pop damage so you can feel like a WoW rogue again, that's okay, but stealth HAS to be toned down. Magically stealthed during aoe attacks and dmg, your in-combat super stealth needs serious toning down, you are not fine or balanced.

[HoosierDuke]

Latest patch notes, new emote added to the game ...

 

/nerfoperatives

[Gaiuson]

The people calling for an op/scoundrel need to understand a few things about the class.

 

Yes, out out of stealth burst damage can/will destroy people. However, if BW takes that away I see literally no reason for anyone to play this class. Without high burst damage this class has no utility whatsoever in pvp because it has no mobility enhancers (force sprint/pull/leap/knockback/you-name-it). According to http://swtorprogress.com/members.php operatives/scoundrels are the least played class already. Take away the one thing that makes them unique and they're dead.

 

Once people realize that tank-healer combos are how warzones are won this class will be obsolete anyways. We have no utility in objective style pvp because of no mobility enhancers (every other class does) and die in 5 sec if focused.

 

To everyone calling for a operative/scoundrel nerf - why don't you just reroll then? The storyline is my personal favorite. I see too many lightsabers anyways.

[Monterone]

Here's my view on Operatives and where, in my uneducated opinion, I think the class should be.

 

First of all, I'm a sorcerer, healing specced, and I get owned by operatives. Not all the time but the ones in Champion gear are no contest. This is a class that gets healing, stealth and top of the line burst dps. Compare that to sage/sorc who also gets healing, utility (same as stealth), and they get diluted DoT based mediocre damage. The difference is one is ranged and that is a benefit over being melee.

 

So, in my view, since both classes have utility and heals, their dps should be very similar. To be honest, I think Sorc/Sage dps is fine the way it is, and while it is not great and can't be compared to classes like Snipers or Marauders, it is decent enough on a class that excels in utility. Operatives being almost a melee version of a sorcerer, should be brought in line a bit and have that incredible dps lowered, in Concealment especially. Hate me for saying that, but I look at having heals, even if not healer spec, on top of having the best utility ability in the game - stealth, on top of best burst damage, decent interrupts and stuns -- well, just a tad too much.

 

Speaking from personal experience, a single well geared Operative should not be able to solo 2 slightly lesser geared players, who also happen to be a haler and a tank combo. On Alderaan, my tank and I can hold off a group of 5-6 people for 30-45 seconds while waiting for reinforcements to arrive (unless a Scoundrel is there, but honestly I don't see them very often). In Huttball, both of us go down to a single Operative in what seems to be 10-15 seconds tops.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Monterone

[daniteh]

Agreed, they're really not that great. Just sorcs crying bc their god mode is stopped.

[Gratus_Mortuus]

I look at having heals, even if not healer spec, on top of having the best utility ability in the game - stealth, on top of best burst damage, decent interrupts and stuns -- well, just a tad too much.

 

You think?

 

Seriously, thank you for your post.

 

My concern isn't our understanding the problem, but in BW actually doing any thing about it. I was told by closed beta testers all this was clearly explained to BW of the boards. In the absence of any posts by BW, I suspect nothing will change in any reasonable time frame.

[murdera]

removed by poster Edited June 19, 2012 by murdera
deleted

[MorluCa]

They will be nerfed. They are supposed to counter sorc/sages but can currently kill tanks/BH/Troopers in 4 seconds as well. I an full champion geared and still die almost instantly

[Caeliux]

They will be nerfed. They are supposed to counter sorc/sages but can currently kill tanks/BH/Troopers in 4 seconds as well. I an full champion geared and still die almost instantly

 

They kill tanks in pugs, in pre-mades with a healer is a different story.

 

No OP or Scoundrel can roll up on a tank that knows what he is doing, and have a healer, and simply kill him fast.

 

If that happens then the tank is bad, the healer isn't paying attention, and it's a noob moment.

[MorluCa]

They kill tanks in pugs, in pre-mades with a healer is a different story.

 

No OP or Scoundrel can roll up on a tank that knows what he is doing, and have a healer, and simply kill him fast.

 

If that happens then the tank is bad, the healer isn't paying attention, and it's a noob moment.

 

So your saying they are balanced because they can't 2 v 1 a tank and a healer???? Good logic.........

[Pitiful]

Operatives do have good burst but if theres something needing nerf its commandos. Kty

[Kasrai]

I heard WoW PvP was changed to not have any burst abilities and turned into a contest of how many healers the other team had since you would need at least 3 people to take down one healer.

 

I also heard people hate the way WoW PvP works now.

 

Correlations. I see them.

[DeltaThirteen]

Here's my view on Operatives and where, in my uneducated opinion, I think the class should be.

 

First of all, I'm a sorcerer, healing specced, and I get owned by operatives. Not all the time but the ones in Champion gear are no contest. This is a class that gets healing, stealth and top of the line burst dps. Compare that to sage/sorc who also gets healing, utility (same as stealth), and they get diluted DoT based mediocre damage. The difference is one is ranged and that is a benefit over being melee.

 

So, in my view, since both classes have utility and heals, their dps should be very similar. To be honest, I think Sorc/Sage dps is fine the way it is, and while it is not great and can't be compared to classes like Snipers or Marauders, it is decent enough on a class that excels in utility. Operatives being almost a melee version of a sorcerer, should be brought in line a bit and have that incredible dps lowered, in Concealment especially. Hate me for saying that, but I look at having heals, even if not healer spec, on top of having the best utility ability in the game - stealth, on top of best burst damage, decent interrupts and stuns -- well, just a tad too much.

 

Speaking from personal experience, a single well geared Operative should not be able to solo 2 slightly lesser geared players, who also happen to be a haler and a tank combo. On Alderaan, my tank and I can hold off a group of 5-6 people for 30-45 seconds while waiting for reinforcements to arrive (unless a Scoundrel is there, but honestly I don't see them very often). In Huttball, both of us go down to a single Operative in what seems to be 10-15 seconds tops.

 

If they're taking 'slightly lesser geared duos', either you're exaggerating how lesser geared they are, or they're afk/keyboard turners/have no situational awareness/have special needs. Usually the only way we can kill healers and tanks paying attention is if I harpoon one of the two away from the other and we CC the other to keep him out of the fight while we gang up on the guy. Either that or tell your friend to stop pvping in Assault/Tactics equivalent on Sith and switch to the defensive tree with a shield instead of a generator.

[Icecrypt]

You shouldn't be able to come out of stealth, stun them, knock them down and kill them before they can even get back up.

 

Operatives have too much burst. Should they have a nasty opener? Absolutely. But the damage from an Operative/Scoundrel should not come from their opening shot and should be spread out to make them more viable outside of stealth.

 

They are just that powerfull when they are lvl 50 with the appropiate gear when are you going to learn. The problem isnt the class, the problem is lvl 50's playing with everyone else.

[Icecrypt]

They are just that powerfull when they are lvl 50 with the appropiate gear when are you going to learn. The problem isnt the class, the problem is lvl 50's playing with everyone else.

 

I am an operative but im a healer, and if anything needs a buff in pvp it's the pure healers cause we can't out heal anyone dpsing us. I mean we just can't, if it's on us or on someone else. Maybe SI and Consular can because they got shields that scale super good, but the rest can't.

 

 

Im not saying make healers GODLIKE what i am saying is if there is a healer he should be the priority to kill because he can keep other players up, atm everyone just ignores healers and kill them only because they are easy prey.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Icecrypt

[Knifewrench]

I am an operative but im a healer, and if anything needs a buff in pvp it's the pure healers cause we can't out heal anyone dpsing us. I mean we just can't, if it's on us or on someone else. Maybe SI and Consular can because they got shields that scale super good, but the rest can't.

 

 

Im not saying make healers GODLIKE what i am saying is if there is a healer he should be the priority to kill because he can keep other players up, atm everyone just ignores healers and kill them only because they are easy prey.

 

Killing the healer is part of the strategy. You can have people peel and CC others attacking you. A tank can guard you for -50% damage and AoE taunt for -30% as well.

 

Not to mention Operatives have that instant heal they can spam all day while kiting...