The story based gameplay is flawed and might kill the game.

[Ninjaboy]

In my opinion, SWTOR is highly flawed and will fail without a major overhaul for the following reasons.

 

1. MMO's are fun and addictive because of the unique gameplay they offer over single player and other multiplayer games. It seems that weak elements being complained about on this forum are legitimate. New games should be better, not weaker than existing games. Heavy sharding and lack of endgame are just two examples. We will play for a while because its BW and Star Wars but will we stay? I doubt it.

 

So we need a good story. But!!!

 

2. Many gamers came to this game because we like Bioware's RPGs and we like MMOs. Yet BW did not do anything to progress or evolve their art of story telling over KOTOR/Mass Effect. In short - we've played this game already. This is not good. Games need to refresh and evolve. Rockstar's GTA and Red Dead Redemption have progressed the format really well - BW have stayed still. So far (lvl 20 JK) I found both KOTOR and ME1 to be way better stories than SWTOR.

 

3. A story based game will require atmosphere and immersion to create an effect called 'transportation' whereby the player is sucked into the story. SWTOR does not do this effectively. Their are some great immersive moments eg Coruscant and Tython but got to Taris and or other 'on rails' worlds and the atmosphere is weak. Why they made people wait till later levels to get to the big worlds I don't know. I loved the fact that SWG, EVE and LOTRO all had these massive worlds from the start. It made me feel like I was in something massive and that was was exciting and unique. SWTOR starts with the opposite and so I don't feel the same.

 

4. The story is too safe. I need to care about the story. Why can't we have some more adult themes? Maybe my character is tortured or mutilated. Maybe my family is slaughtered in front of my eyes. How about a star exploding destroying a solar system. Where is the epicness? Its all a bit ploddy and run of the mill. Where is the complexity? Why dumb it down? The overarching story itself is unoriginal. A war, two sides, evil vs good, Star Wars. Come on. Not all players are in their teens. Average gamer age is 30. Lucasarts keeping them too close the license here?

 

Just my opinions of course.

[TyHeaton]

Your opinion is wrong.

[bludwork]

Everyone is an expert.

[ChipHazard]

Regarding adult themes. Well that may become a problem if BW want's to keep their current rating.

Obviously it is limited by the fact that it's an mmorpg.

[Rinkitink]

Everyone keeps hanging on to the story as the one huge redeeming factor in the game. The story won't even be talked about in 6 months. Most of you will be completely done with it and done leveling alts for a while. In fact, you can only even get 4 unique stories. If you decide to play the other 4 classes, you'll get the same story.

 

The voice acting is sub par. The story line itself, is sub par, even compared to some of Bioware's other games.

 

People are just enamored by the fact that it exists in an MMO, so they're obsessed with it.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Rinkitink

[gannonmoss]

In my opinion, SWTOR is highly flawed and will fail without a major overhaul for the following reasons.

 

1. MMO's are fun and addictive because of the unique gameplay they offer over single player and other multiplayer games. It seems that weak elements being complained about on this forum are legitimate. New games should be better, not weaker than existing games. Heavy sharding and lack of endgame are just two examples. We will play for a while because its BW and Star Wars but will we stay? I doubt it.

 

So we need a good story. But!!!

 

2. Many gamers came to this game because we like Bioware's RPGs and we like MMOs. Yet BW did not do anything to progress or evolve their art of story telling over KOTOR/Mass Effect. In short - we've played this game already. This is not good. Games need to refresh and evolve. Rockstar's GTA and Red Dead Redemption have progressed the format really well - BW have stayed still. So far (lvl 20 JK) I found both KOTOR and ME1 to be way better stories than SWTOR.

 

3. A story based game will require atmosphere and immersion to create an effect called 'transportation' whereby the player is sucked into the story. SWTOR does not do this effectively. Their are some great immersive moments eg Coruscant and Tython but got to Taris and or other 'on rails' worlds and the atmosphere is weak. Why they made people wait till later levels to get to the big worlds I don't know. I loved the fact that SWG, EVE and LOTRO all had these massive worlds from the start. It made me feel like I was in something massive and that was was exciting and unique. SWTOR starts with the opposite and so I don't feel the same.

 

4. The story is too safe. I need to care about the story. Why can't we have some more adult themes? Maybe my character is tortured or mutilated. Maybe my family is slaughtered in front of my eyes. How about a star exploding destroying a solar system. Where is the epicness? Its all a bit ploddy and run of the mill. Where is the complexity? Why dumb it down? The overarching story itself is unoriginal. A war, two sides, evil vs good, Star Wars. Come on. Not all players are in their teens. Average gamer age is 30. Lucasarts keeping them too close the license here?

 

Just my opinions of course.

 

All of your opinions will disappear as soon as you play Empire. The Inquisitor story is anything but safe. Oh and if you don't like it feel free to leave and send me your stuff.

[ArmchairMagpie]

Define "kill the game".

 

I have seen this over-used term alot but I am lacking the imagination of seeing a game killed. Never seen that before.

 

The only thing I could imagine being close to that is becoming so unprofitable that a closure by the developer company is imminent but even the worst perceived MMOs endured long enough. So all in all I am still very curious.

[JeremyDale]

In my opinion, SWTOR is highly flawed and will fail without a major overhaul for the following reasons.

 

1. MMO's are fun and addictive because of the unique gameplay they offer over single player and other multiplayer games. It seems that weak elements being complained about on this forum are legitimate. New games should be better, not weaker than existing games. Heavy sharding and lack of endgame are just two examples. We will play for a while because its BW and Star Wars but will we stay? I doubt it.

 

So we need a good story. But!!!

 

2. Many gamers came to this game because we like Bioware's RPGs and we like MMOs. Yet BW did not do anything to progress or evolve their art of story telling over KOTOR/Mass Effect. In short - we've played this game already. This is not good. Games need to refresh and evolve. Rockstar's GTA and Red Dead Redemption have progressed the format really well - BW have stayed still. So far (lvl 20 JK) I found both KOTOR and ME1 to be way better stories than SWTOR.

 

3. A story based game will require atmosphere and immersion to create an effect called 'transportation' whereby the player is sucked into the story. SWTOR does not do this effectively. Their are some great immersive moments eg Coruscant and Tython but got to Taris and or other 'on rails' worlds and the atmosphere is weak. Why they made people wait till later levels to get to the big worlds I don't know. I loved the fact that SWG, EVE and LOTRO all had these massive worlds from the start. It made me feel like I was in something massive and that was was exciting and unique. SWTOR starts with the opposite and so I don't feel the same.

 

4. The story is too safe. I need to care about the story. Why can't we have some more adult themes? Maybe my character is tortured or mutilated. Maybe my family is slaughtered in front of my eyes. How about a star exploding destroying a solar system. Where is the epicness? Its all a bit ploddy and run of the mill. Where is the complexity? Why dumb it down? The overarching story itself is unoriginal. A war, two sides, evil vs good, Star Wars. Come on. Not all players are in their teens. Average gamer age is 30. Lucasarts keeping them too close the license here?

 

Just my opinions of course.

 

I agree with you. The world isn't immerssive at all. It's linear, contained, small - and lifeless.

 

The story is alright but nothing to crow about.

 

This game has good graphics and a cool companion system. They did good on these - but they failed miserably at creating an interesting and fun world to explore. In its current format, I give this game 6 months tops.

 

I also woudn't mind a more adult theme.

[gannonmoss]

Everyone keeps hanging on to the story as the one huge redeeming factor in the game. The story won't even be talked about in 6 months. Most of you will be completely done with it and done leveling alts for a while. In fact, you can only even get 4 unique stories. If you decide to play the other 4 classes, you'll get the same story.

 

The voice acting is sub par. The story line itself, is sub par, even compared to some of Bioware's other games.

 

People are just enamored by the fact that it exists in an MMO, so they're obsessed with it.

 

Mmmm yes it is sooo banal. You must teach us naive fans of the game why you are so right and cool, because there is no way that other people enjoy it if you don't.

 

Is the weather nice all the way up there on your high horse?

[Rinkitink]

Mmmm yes it is sooo banal. You must teach us naive fans of the game why you are so right and cool, because there is no way that other people enjoy it if you don't.

 

Is the weather nice all the way up there on your high horse?

 

Let me know how the story is in a year, bro. If you can take your eyes off the nearest shiny object long enough.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Rinkitink

[Meldwyn]

If you want adult themed, find yourself an old copy of Leisure Suit Larry!

[gannonmoss]

Let me know how the story is in a year, bro. If you can take your eyes off the nearest shiny object long enough.

 

You got it bro. Not too sure why you feel threatened by other people liking the story and the game, but cheers to you breh.

 

Have fun being pessimistic and hating things because others like them. You let me know how that goes in a year.

 

Bro.

[Sparklehorse]

This is a classic example of how to get people to troll your thread.

 

Most of this post is decent and the idea is valid whether you agree or not. I tend to agree that they played it a bit safe on the story side but it seemed that the mantra when developing this game was indeed "play it safe."

 

The end result of that is a safe story that may seem a little vanilla (no WoW reference intended) to some of the more jaded and desensitized gamers. This is not just a KoTOR issue, this is mass media in general nowadays.

 

I personally have found most of the stories to be decent enough to keep me entertained.

 

But I digress.

 

You actually had a few good points but you framed them in a sensationalistic title that just begs for trolls to come in and start flinging their troll spittle all about and we all know how hard that is to get out of the furniture.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Sparklehorse

[AetherMcLoud]

Yet BW did not do anything to progress or evolve their art of story telling over KOTOR/Mass Effect.

 

To quote a meme: "Once you reach max level you stop leveling."

[Baelish]

...you can only even get 4 unique stories.

 

Only if you refuse to play on both sides of the divide. The 4 Imperial stories are distinct and different from the 4 Republic ones.

 

Just because you've screamed to 50 and are now bored doesn't mean everyone else has done the same, and there won't be many people with 8 50s, one of each base class, by 6 months in. There might be a few, but it won't be even a sizable minority.

[Illanair]

1. Sharding isn't a bad thing since it is only partial sharding. You are free to move between "shards" as you see fit if your area is too crowded, or if noone is participating in world PvP (hah) at your location.

 

2. Rockstar's GTA/Read Dead series hasn't moved an inch in years. It is still the same old boring "rags to riches" story being told in such a predictive manner that by the end of the tutorial you already know exactly where you'll end up by the end of the game.

 

Bioware IS evolving both genres by bringing them together - showing that MMO's can actually have real stories besides 700 pages of quest logs you'll skip because they don't have any bearing on your feelings towards a faction or individual.

 

3. I will agree though that some of the planets seem vague and unscripted compared to the early ones. Some streamlining and more "consistensy" is welcomed by me.

 

4. You've clearly missed the big fat label on the packaging saying "Rated T for Teen" - you can't have "adult/unsafe" situations in a game marketed at teenagers, as long as parent guidance organisations cry bloody murder the second you see a piece of naked skin, or a scene with REAL emotions in them.

 

Even if they wanted to go darker, they could not because of these limitations. Why market it at teens you ask? Because anything higher than that isn't globally acceptable (see Australia) and isn't as profitable (more subscribers, more content). As for the "Good Vs. Evil" argument - did you watch the movies? The entire universe is built around the eternal Good Vs. Evil struggle. In the end evil always fails, and the empire of this age is no different if you follow the story.

 

Baseline: If you want darker, more realistic stories play a singleplayer RPG such as the Witcher series. Never expect such themes in an MMO in this day and age.

 

PS: Some of the things mentioned in (4) do happen - you may want to explore some other classes for those particular events.

[Nichalus]

OP, are you in the habit of reposting and now creating a basic copy of a response that you gave nearly a month ago?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=109690&page=3

 

What, you didn't get the attention that you needed from that one, so you created a thread just to basically repeat it?

 

Obviously, you vocal 'minority' types just can't get it in your head that you are....well....a vocal minority. Meaning that the 'majority' of the people like this game. Your whine about YOUR opinion that this game will fail/fall/lose subs, etc...has been heard.

 

Now, unsub, or just walk away....its really kinda simple.

[gannonmoss]

Only if you refuse to play on both sides of the divide. The 4 Imperial stories are distinct and different from the 4 Republic ones.

 

Just because you've screamed to 50 and are now bored doesn't mean everyone else has done the same, and there won't be many people with 8 50s, one of each base class, by 6 months in. There might be a few, but it won't be even a sizable minority.

 

^^^^

 

This. And you know some of us enjoy replaying content that we enjoy. It's crazy I know, like reading a book twice or watching a movie a second or third time. Totally crazy, it's nuts.

 

Thank you for this post you could probably cut and paste this into a good deal of other threads and it would be valid.

[JScranton]

Define "kill the game".

 

I have seen this over-used term alot but I am lacking the imagination of seeing a game killed. Never seen that before.

 

The only thing I could imagine being close to that is becoming so unprofitable that a closure by the developer company is imminent but even the worst perceived MMOs endured long enough. So all in all I am still very curious.

 

Tabula Rasa, Asheron's Call 2, Star Wars Galaxies, Earth & Beyond, Never Winter Nights, Matrix Online, Ragnarok Online, and Shadowbane.

 

Those are just a few over the years that have closed down, that I know of. No doubt, there are many, many more that have closed. So yeah, it can happen.

[JeremyDale]

You got it bro. Not too sure why you feel threatened by other people liking the story and the game, but cheers to you breh.

 

Have fun being pessimistic and hating things because others like them. You let me know how that goes in a year.

 

Bro.

 

You're missing his point Gannon.

 

No matter how much you like the story - once you finish watching the last cutscene in a month or two then what is there left to like?

 

YOu can't design a game like a movie and expect it to be successful long term. Games need Game Play that lasts. It needs an interesting world with a lot to do. This game just doesn't have that. It's basically just a string of voice-acted cut scenes that play out like an interactive movie. When that ends. so does the game basically. That's the flaw with putting so much empahsis on the story-driven gameplay.

 

Besides, if you are just wanting a good story why not read a book? Depth of gameplay is what utlimately matters most on any MMORPG. That's what keeps players coming back for more.

[Hobnobb]

You are wrong, NinjaBOY. Go back to WoW and come back when you have grown up.

[Mungadai]

So far (lvl 20 JK) I found both KOTOR and ME1 to be way better stories than SWTOR.

 

That's where i stopped reading. Its like criticizing a book for not having a good story when you haven't gotten past the first few paragraphs.

 

Also. Potato.

[Jebazel]

'transportation' hmm.. used to be called 'immersion'.

 

Whatever, all for it!

[Bakhtin]

4. The story is too safe. I need to care about the story. Why can't we have some more adult themes? Maybe my character is tortured or mutilated. Maybe my family is slaughtered in front of my eyes. How about a star exploding destroying a solar system. Where is the epicness? Its all a bit ploddy and run of the mill. Where is the complexity? Why dumb it down? The overarching story itself is unoriginal. A war, two sides, evil vs good, Star Wars. Come on. Not all players are in their teens. Average gamer age is 30. Lucasarts keeping them too close the license here?

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly. We need more grownup situations in this game.

 

I propose a quest linein which a high ranking Sith Lord dies, leaving his estate the child of his first wife. As the child of his second wife, you're left with naught but a small inheritance. And even though your Sith father made your half-brother promise to take care of you, his womanizing and drinking ways get the better of him and his own selfish apprentice convinces him to reneg on his father's dying promise.

 

Your involvement would begin as you set out from the comfort of what was to be your legacy with no one to trust but your sister and widowed mother as you seek out your fortunes in order to marry above your current station, thereby legitimizing your existence. Much of the action of this series would revolve around such things as courting, playing music on the piano, small dogs, harsh winters, and rain storms as well as a need to maintain countenance and propriety at all costs.

[gannonmoss]

You're missing his point Gannon.

 

No matter how much you like the story - once you finish watching the last cutscene in a month or two then what is there left to like?

 

YOu can't design a game like a movie and expect it to be successful long term. Games need Game Play that lasts. It needs an interesting world with a lot to do. This game just doesn't have that. It's basically just a string of voice-acted cut scenes that play out like an interactive movie. When that ends. so does the game basically. That's the flaw with putting so much empahsis on the story-driven gameplay.

 

Besides, if you are just wanting a good story why not read a book? Depth of gameplay is what utlimately matters most on any MMORPG. That's what keeps players coming back for more.

 

Nope pretty sure it's content. WoW is about as deep as a half-empty kiddie pool, I played it for a long long time. They have so much content, they have become a literal juggernaut in the gaming industry by dwarfing any other game in content. But the gameplay itself is stale and old. Star Wars admittedly is a new skin on a lot of those mechanics, but you sir are missing my point. If I like it, why the flaming f*** do you care? I happen to enjoy my Inquisitor and my Imperial Agent story and I recognize video games as the story telling medium of today. It is engaging, exciting and bringing that to an MMO shouldn't threaten you. But apparently it does.

 

Quit talking out of your rear. I know you are bored and want to come off as smart guy, but please think before you post.