gtmach Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think it's unfair to judge purely off the movies. As movies, the acting was quite bad (not the actors' faults), but the lore was excellent. I've read the prequel books and it's honestly my favorite SW time period. The books are great but obviously the movies can't reflect that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlallison Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think it's unfair to judge purely off the movies. As movies, the acting was quite bad (not the actors' faults), but the lore was excellent. I've read the prequel books and it's honestly my favorite SW time period. The books are great but obviously the movies can't reflect that as well. I want to apologize first and foremost for what I am about to post. It might sound like I am attacking you, but it's more the viewpoint, as I've seen it a lot in other places. For the vast, vast, vast majority of people. Star Wars IS the films. While there are a lot of people who buy the toys, the books, the comics, and games, the lion's share of people who you bring up Star Wars with will be familiar with the movies first and foremost. I do understand your comment, novels can flesh things out that a movie cannot, but again, ask someone about Darth Vader. Chances are, they know who you mean. Now ask them about Darth Talon, or Darth Malgus, or Grand Admiral Thrawn. You likely won't get nearly the same kind of response. I think it *is* fair to judge purely off the movies, because that's where the vast majority of fans get their information. As an example outside Star Wars, there were interviews given after Season 6 of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' aired, revealing something that, to many viewers of the show, seemed to run contrary to what they had seen. While the information was well and good, it really should have been in the actual show, and not something referred to after the fact outside the medium. That's kind of how I feel about even the movie novelizations. If I'm discussing one of the films with someone, I really should be talking about the films, not a throwaway scene from a kid's book (why yes, I AM bitter that Fett supposedly wasn't killed by the sarlaac, even though that was definitely the intent in the RotJ movie). Again, I'm not attacking you, I just don't care for the argument because I think it defeats the purpose of the films. The background material is great, but as already demonstrated with Lucas, he's happy to overwrite anything written with what's in the films. Take it and run, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtmach Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I want to apologize first and foremost for what I am about to post. It might sound like I am attacking you, but it's more the viewpoint, as I've seen it a lot in other places. For the vast, vast, vast majority of people. Star Wars IS the films. While there are a lot of people who buy the toys, the books, the comics, and games, the lion's share of people who you bring up Star Wars with will be familiar with the movies first and foremost. I do understand your comment, novels can flesh things out that a movie cannot, but again, ask someone about Darth Vader. Chances are, they know who you mean. Now ask them about Darth Talon, or Darth Malgus, or Grand Admiral Thrawn. You likely won't get nearly the same kind of response. I think it *is* fair to judge purely off the movies, because that's where the vast majority of fans get their information. As an example outside Star Wars, there were interviews given after Season 6 of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' aired, revealing something that, to many viewers of the show, seemed to run contrary to what they had seen. While the information was well and good, it really should have been in the actual show, and not something referred to after the fact outside the medium. That's kind of how I feel about even the movie novelizations. If I'm discussing one of the films with someone, I really should be talking about the films, not a throwaway scene from a kid's book (why yes, I AM bitter that Fett supposedly wasn't killed by the sarlaac, even though that was definitely the intent in the RotJ movie). Again, I'm not attacking you, I just don't care for the argument because I think it defeats the purpose of the films. The background material is great, but as already demonstrated with Lucas, he's happy to overwrite anything written with what's in the films. Take it and run, Well it depends on the context. If you're talking the prequel era of the EU, then I like it. And I assume that within this context of a Star Wars discussion forum, books would be accepted. But you're definitely right in general. If I'm talking to the average SW fan out there, I most likely would refer to movies specifically. I guess I'm saying that I like the time period but I agree with the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achrystie Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Mostly I like all the movies, but mainly for "what they are", which is early teen pulp scifi stories. That said, there are some things in the prequels that are really "groan" worthy, and they mostly come from a trend that started in Return of the Jedi, rather than the prequels. 1) There's too much obvious emphasis placed on "inserting cute marketable character", where said character(s) don't necessarily fit. I understand the interest in creating child marketable things, but this can be well done, and I didn't feel that ANY of this stuff was done well. In summary: Ewoks, sucked. Jar Jar Binks, sucked. 2) The dialog in some parts is downright "atrocious". This also started with RoTJ. The dialog, and for that matter the rapport, between Han and Leia in New Hope and Empire is "really good". In Jedi they look like two stick figures who are "openly uncomfortable with what they are being asked to say". This pretty much summarizes the entire relationship between Padme and Anakin for me, through all three prequels. "Are you an angel?", "No it's because I'm SOOO in love with you"...ugh, double ugh. Absolutely terrible. Even my relatively young daughter at the time probably glossed over that as painfully bad. 3) My single largest gripe with the prequels actually comes from the one, of the three, that I like the most "overall". In the third film, the progression that leads Anakin to the dark side could have been vastly better and far more plausible IMHO. It upset me so much, in fact, that I went home and outlined a progression for the film that I felt was vastly better, much more plausible, and far more compelling than what was put in. The abbreviated, but still long, version goes something like this: Anakin returns home from rescuing Palpatine (as he did). When he returns, he finds that Padme is ill (she's having problems due to her pregnancy).It's obvious, through some reasonably well written dialog that Anakin is concerned.At home with his sick wife, Anakin has a nightmare dream sequence (a much better one). The next morning, Anakin is called by the council to debrief and they make him aware of their distrust of palpatine, and ask Anakin to be mindful of him (no request by Palpatine to be on the council nonesense), just a snooping mission. Anakin is upset by this, but mostly because he is afraid for Padme, and upset about being put on some menial task when he should be with his secret wife.Yoda senses something wrong with Anakin but keeps silent at first. Anakin meets up with Palpatine, and Palpatine, obviously sensing how angry and distraught he is, gets Anakin to confide in him about his relationship to Padme and how she is sick.Seeing his opportunity, Palpatine plants the seeds by condemning the jedi policies against marriage, sharing a story of his own lost love (true or not), and informing Anakin that he is there to "help" him with whatever he needs. While this is going on, Obi-wan is sent on the mission to take out Grievous. Anakin returns to Padme who is even more ill.Unsure of what to do and fearing for her life, he brings Padme to the Jedi temple as he knows that the Jedi have "renowned" healing capabilities (this is well established in the later novels).Yoda is informed that Anakin has brought Padme and senses immediately (because he's friggin Yoda) that the child(ren) are Anakins. Now aware of Anakins indiscretion, he assures Anakin that Padme will be taken care of, but asks him to leave and instructs him that the council will have to "decide his fate". Sensing Anakins anger Yoda makes it clear that he must leave Padme with the Jedi, for fear that his emotions will cause his downfall, and hers. Anakin reluctantly agrees, but now, separated from Padme, and his secret revealed, he is unsure what to do. Distraught, Anakin goes to see his mentor Palpatine, and informs him of his plight.Palpatine weaves a web of doubt that convinces Anakin that Padme should be brought to him instead, and that his doctors and healers would be a much better place for her, given the Jedi's views on Jedi marriage. He tells a tale (possibly a lie) of Jedi children who are "stricken of the force" by the Jedi council because they are born of Jedi parents. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan has killed Grievous but found out from Grievous, or data files, or one of the trade federation, (whatever) that Palpatine is indeed a Sith. He reports to the Jedi council. Yoda has been forced off world to help the wookies, and the only master available is Windu.Hearing that Palpatine is a Sith, he departs immediately to arrest/kill Palpatine.Upon arrival, he finds Anakin with Palpatine, and now firmly under the grasp of Palpatine, and fearing that Palpatine is the only hope for Padme, Anakin kills Windu's three Jedi companions, and fights to an epic stalemate battle with Windu. Palpatine, seeing his opportunity, finally reveals his power and overwhelms Windu with Force lightning and force throws, killing him. Seeing the raw power of Palpatine, Anakin submits to him (no you are "darth" ceremony yet). Palpatine convinces Anakin that Padme must be "rescued immediately" from the Jedi temple. At the temple the guards have been instructed "not" to let anyone in. Anakin proceeds to wipe out the temple in a fit of furious anger because he perceives that he is "rescuing" his love.Anakin brings Padme to Palpatine who instructs him that he needs to bring her to a secret base on Mustafar where his medical teams are, and that he will follow soon. Anakin rushes off and Palpatine enacts order 66. Obi-Wan and Yoda return to the temple and find everyone murdered (no stupid younglings dialog). Obi-Wan accepts that he must chase after Anakin and destroy him, and Yoda informs him that Padme's life may be in danger too. Yoda goes after Palpatine.During Yoda's battle with Palpatine, Yoda repels his force lightning and causes Palpatine to be scarred and burned. Palpatine and Yoda fight to a near stalemate but Palpatine has a "secret apprentice" that reveals him/herself and helps him subdue Yoda, who decides he must flee. Obi-Wan arrives on Mustafar and tries to convince Anakin that he must let Padme go, as Yoda has seen that Anakin may be her death. Anakin refuses to believe him and they battle (just as in the movie) until Obi-Wan eventually beats him and takes Padme back with him in his ship. Palpatine addresses the senate, declares the Jedi betrayer's and outlaws, and makes himself emperor. He then travels to Mustafar and rescues Anakin. He rebuilds Anakin as Darth Vader and when Anakin awakes he informs him that Padme is dead, his child is dead, and that he is now Darth Vader.Anakin destroys the room, almost killing both of them in a fit of force rage, MINUS the "NOOOOOOO". Anyway, I'm just "some dude" who's never made a movie, but I strongly feel that it plays out better, and makes far more sense, that way. Or it's probably better to say that I feel there are "many" ways to rewrite Anakins fall, and that the way chosen in the actual movie makes only "superficial" sense. This is the problem with the prequels as a whole. The motivation of the characters towards good, or evil, is tragically out of whack with how people really function, and the emotional moments that would cause someone to descend into pure evil are entirely too spread out, not nearly compelling enough, and connected far too loosely. My two cents. Edited February 3, 2012 by achrystie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itekazzawrrlic Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Jar Jar Binks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaperkeepet Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Jar Jar Binks Throse three words must die! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Throse three words must die! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!! Technically it's two words. One repeated twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtmach Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Well here's another reason I think people hate prequels and it doesn't have anything to do with acting or writing or whatever. I'm sure those are major reasons but here's my theory... The original trilogy was all we had during that time. There was nothing else to compare it with Star Wars-wise. And because George Lucas (for whatever reason because I honestly don't know) chose to organize the episodes in the order of 4,5,6 followed by 1,2,3, our perspectives get affected. When the original trilogy debuted, the groundwork for the Star Wars EU was laid out. We knew that Luke Skywalker's father Vader was at one point Anakin Skywalker. We knew that at some point Anakin fell to the dark side. We knew that Obiwan trained Anakin and failed. We knew at some point Anakin not only failed but got seriously f'd up so he had to don on this cybernetic equipment. We knew there was once a Jedi order. We knew that at some point Anakin had kids with a woman, and that it was best to hide those kids from him in the end. And so on... We knew a whole bunch of tidbits, but that was it. The entire story of how the original trilogy started was left to our imaginations. So we filled in the gaps on our own. The story that George told didn't match what we had in mind. We really didn't see Vader's origins being like this...or his wife's....or Obiwan's....etc. And that pisses us off... Like I said it's not the entire reason we feel how we do about the prequels, but I think it definitely contributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Watch all of those. They will make you hate George Lucas, for GOOOOOD reason. Yeah those reviews are absolutely classic, spot on and also hilarious. But one thing I don't get is the Jar Jar Binks hate. Had the script been half-decent, he would have been no more intrinsically offensive than R2-D2 and C3-PO in the originals - i.e. comic relief. It's only because the scripts and writing are crap that Lucas' penchant for merchandizing is highlighted, and becomes insulting, I guess. But he's always had that side to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florial Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Hayden Christiansen (or whatever his name is) as Anakin. Could they have picked a whinier, more annoying actor to play what is supposed to be a very likeable character until his "seduction" to the dark side? I couldn't stand this character. I'm not going to be hard on the actual actor since he was probably taking direction form th director. He seemed whiney and dislikeable through the whole next two movies. I despised him but don't fault the actor since as I said, was probably taking direction. I really need to watch some other movies of his to reserve judgment. I didn't mind the first movie but Jar Jar was rather annoying. The whole movie seemed staged for the kiddies. The only character I loved was Palpatine. I've always loved Ian Mc? and whenever he left the room, the movie seemed to diminish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vharna Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Plinkett's reviews do an excellent job of explaining why the prequels are absolutely crap. The reviews are much more entertaining then the actual movies. http://redlettermedia.com/ My reasons are mainly covered in reviews... but stuff that I especially hate. The whole Anakin (space Jesus) story was just so completely unnecessary and it pretty much ruined the character of Vadar. Everything that you needed to know about him was already explained in the OT. This was really the same for all the characters. Everyone got ruined (even ****en chewbacka). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraesh Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Why does everyone hate the prequals???? 1.) Jar Jar Binks 2.) Young Anakin's crappy dialogue 3.) Jar Jar Binks 4.) Adult Anakin's crappy dialogue 5.) Jar Jar Binks 6.) Young Anakin's crappy acting 7.) Jar Jar Binks 8.) Adult Anakin's crappy acting 9.) Jar Jar Binks 10.) Pod racing 11.) Jar Jar Binks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 1.) Jar Jar Binks 2.) Young Anakin's crappy dialogue 3.) Jar Jar Binks 4.) Adult Anakin's crappy dialogue 5.) Jar Jar Binks 6.) Young Anakin's crappy acting 7.) Jar Jar Binks 8.) Adult Anakin's crappy acting 9.) Jar Jar Binks 10.) Pod racing 11.) Jar Jar Binks You forgot the midichlorians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The only character I loved was Palpatine. I've always loved Ian Mc? and whenever he left the room, the movie seemed to diminish. I think even if you hate the prequels as a whole, you have to admit that there are some nice set pieces and occasional great bits of action and acting. Palapatine/Sidious is definitely one of the highlights:- 1) The tale of Darth Plagious as he tells it in the "opera house". Extraordinarily creepy moment, and shows the kind of thing that the prequels might have been, as a good man is gradually turned to the Dark Side. This is one of the few scenes in all 3 prequels that actually does what the prequels say they're doing on the tin. 2) The fight with Mace Windu - "un-LIMITED PO-WAAAAH" 3) "Kill them - ALL OF THEM" 4) "Goood ... GOOOOOD" 5) The fight in the senate, where he's cackling maniacally and leaping about force throwing stuff Great moments, all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustrumRidcully Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Yes, Palpatine was definitely the best part of the movies. Story-wise, acting and dialog he seemed to have gotten the best. That's the part I want to keep the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanharn Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Im everyone and I don't hate them. Not the best films of all time but still very good and entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshaye Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'm bored at work so I'll tack my opinions on this massive thread for the hell of it. First of all, most of the people who whine incessantly about the newer movies are unreasonable idiots who you don't want to talk to anyway. The much greater number of people who feel that the newer movies are simply not as good as the older ones will still get some enjoyment out of them (but will gladly jump on the bashing bandwagon when discussion arises). The simple fact is that the original trilogy is not the same as the new trilogy. For a variety of reasons, Lucas chose to make the new trilogy in a way that is very different from the old, and in the process removed or altered much of what made Star Wars such a classic. While the new product might be okay on its own, people who love the original trilogy were presented with something vastly different. Nope, people hate the prequels because the directing was awful, the writing was awful, the actors were not given the proper care and time to do their jobs, the plot was awful and could have been 100 times better if a talented writer had been contracted to ponder it for a minute... The only good things about the prequels is that it's all pretty special effects, costumes and visual candy. If that's what you are going for you'll like them, if you want some sort of explanation and background on beloved childhood characters you're going to go out angry and disappointed that is really the best Lucas could come up with. REALLY? I take the prequels gingerly, a lot like myths and legends, I refuse to believe that's really what happened with these characters. The history I'll buy sure. But not who these people were and what they did in detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaperkeepet Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Nope, people hate the prequels because the directing was awful, the writing was awful, the actors were not given the proper care and time to do their jobs More like the horrible acting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shren Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 cause of the prequels we get to play as crappy races in this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaperkeepet Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 cause of the prequels we get to play as crappy races in this game That's not all true. If we could play Gungan, I would have a lot of fun killing myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackuss Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garravesh Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Yes, it was because Obi-Wan was troubled that they did . There is a reason why this happened....I will leave you to find out why..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 There is a reason why this happened....I will leave you to find out why..... Yeah...no. You can try and explain away its silliness, but silly is as silly does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaperkeepet Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Im everyone and I don't hate them. Not the best films of all time but still very good and entertaining. The're okay. But many flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) the only thing I was disappointed about was Samuel L Jackson not saying mother****er even once... it just isn't right "I've had it with these Mother****ing sith on this mother**** planet!!!!!!!!!!!" Edited February 6, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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