Leaving a match early penalty

[MercMara]

With the state of the game and the number of meta running premades should Bioware do away with match penalties? 

 

I believe they should. Give players an option to get away from toxic gameplay. Getting farmed over and over, if when you are a good player gets old. These comps running tank/heals with meta players chasing their flavor of the month specs there's no escaping them. Players should be able to leave a match without the worry of a 5 min, 15 min and 1 hour penalty. 

[Darkestmonty]

5 hours ago, MercMara said:

With the state of the game and the number of meta running premades should Bioware do away with match penalties? 

 

I believe they should. Give players an option to get away from toxic gameplay. Getting farmed over and over, if when you are a good player gets old. These comps running tank/heals with meta players chasing their flavor of the month specs there's no escaping them. Players should be able to leave a match without the worry of a 5 min, 15 min and 1 hour penalty. 

it won't be good.

Here is what will happen because it happened at release when there were zero penalties.

2 teams match up.

One team scores.

Half the people on the team that didn't score immediately abandons the game and requeues.

Replacements are brought in, they see the team they joined losing, they immediately abandon the game.

People who don't immediately abandon take about 20-30 seconds figuring out what is going on, too late, now the team is further behind and they abandon the game.

Edited April 9 by Darkestmonty

[MercMara]

I think the penalties are a huge mistake. You know how annoying it is when you happen to have unreliable internet and tend to disconnect? You get punished. Its also a mistake to force people to get steamrolled over and over because they know they can't leave.  

[Darkestmonty]

40 minutes ago, MercMara said:

I think the penalties are a huge mistake. You know how annoying it is when you happen to have unreliable internet and tend to disconnect? You get punished. Its also a mistake to force people to get steamrolled over and over because they know they can't leave.  

you probably weren't around at release then.

You can dig through this forum to find posts from 2011 and 2012 of player begging the devs to do something about all the people abandoning matches.

Half your team abandoning the game the moment the other side is slightly ahead pretty much guarantees a loss. Now you are 4 vs 8 and even if you are trying your best, replacements take time and with our population may not even show up.

Now you have a team that is not only behind in points but has less people and anyone joining the losing team now has to figure out what is going on when they load in and if they want to bother staying.

Edited April 9 by Darkestmonty

[VegaMist]

Yes, it's very annoying when you crash out of the match (even when your internet remains stable) and get penalized on top of it. It's also annoying to see certain individuals bail at the first sight of trouble even with the penalty (though, sometimes you may get a better player as a replacement who'd help to turn the match around) - I'm talking about repeat offenders, so you can be sure they are not experiencing technical difficulties.

Ideal solution would be if the game could differentiate between crashes and bailers, but I don't think it can at the moment.

Edited April 9 by VegaMist
Typos (it's always typos)

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, VegaMist said:

Yes, it's very annoying when you crash out of the match (even when your internet remains stable) and get penalized on top of it. It's also annoying to see certain individuals bail at the first sight of trouble even with the penalty (though, sometimes you may get a better player as a replacement who'd help to turn the match around) - I'm talking about repeat offenders, so you can be sure they are not experiencing technical difficulties.

Ideal solution would be if the game could differentiate between crushes and bailers, but I don't think it can at the moment.

part of the issue is and was that wins are all that count. This was especially true at release where you had to win to advance your dailies and weeklies.

Now you can lose your way to finishing dailies and weeklies but the problem still persists, no matter how good you are, no matter how much DPS you do, how much healing you do, how much you stayed and defended the point, if your team loses you get the same reward as the player who AFKed from the start.

Rewards have never been based on performance or participation, so at a certain point you stop caring about how well you do since it doesn't matter when you are on a losing team.

Edited April 10 by Darkestmonty

[Bar-Da-Voya]

The penalties are to lenient. Make them harsher and get rid of 8 man premades unless its 8 man premade vs 8 man premade.

[VegaMist]

5 hours ago, Bar-Da-Voya said:

The penalties are to lenient. Make them harsher and get rid of 8 man premades unless its 8 man premade vs 8 man premade.

Have you ever had your entire team get kicked out of the WZ at the end of a challenging winning match 10 seconds before it's game over and then hit with a penalty on top of it? Yeah, didn't think so.

Agreed on large premades (anything above 4).

[AFadedMemory]

8 hours ago, MercMara said:

I think the penalties are a huge mistake. You know how annoying it is when you happen to have unreliable internet and tend to disconnect? You get punished. Its also a mistake to force people to get steamrolled over and over because they know they can't leave.  

I remember playing halo 3 on Xbox live with crappy internet. There was a mode you had to play called basic training. You had to win a match or hit some other metric to “graduate” and get a rank. I would destroy the other team only to lag out right before completion. I had to play that mode a few time because of that.

[AFadedMemory]

1 hour ago, VegaMist said:

Have you ever had your entire team get kicked out of the WZ at the end of a challenging winning match 10 seconds before it's game over and then hit with a penalty on top of it? Yeah, didn't think so.

Agreed on large premades (anything above 4).

Do you think force random queue or force premade queue would do any good?

[wepeel]

I think the current penalties are ok. Relatively lenient and keep you from instantly requeuing but get worse if you repeat the behaviour, though also not so rough that you feel forced into staying put to get farmed.

Edited April 10 by wepeel

[VegaMist]

1 hour ago, AFadedMemory said:

Do you think force random queue or force premade queue would do any good?

I prefer a mixed queue with premades limited to 4 players max (for WZs).

[Beyrahl]

Leaving a penalty for anything but ranked was silly, sure after heavily abused like 4+ leaves in an hour or so maybe limit it but it's not helping anything in the long run for the health of the game. 
Ultimately it serves the purpose of preventing players from giving up at first sight of a loss making the match spiral harder. It is, however, a bad way of handling things and the mercy rule should be changed to not just work off of too many leaving but rather if there's too much of a lead. Matches are never going to be perfect so why continue to fail trying to balance them? Just make the outliers end sooner so everyone can have a better experience at the end of the day.

Now as someone who solo queues - I don't play much anymore often because of this too & the group size allowed for premades. I get backfilled a LOT. My main toons will sit in the queue on average of 20mins+ only to play a match that's half over more than 65% of the time. It's not fun nor engaging, I don't want to play the backfill at all if I am being honest. So constantly leaving would only hurt my enjoyment further of the game as a solo player - though if we could avoid backfilling as a whole it would no longer be an issue.

Now getting into group sizes - as it's been stated many times before, anything more than 4man is far too much. It needs to be restricted back down.

[Wulfurkin]

Its best if the penalties stay because of reasons mentioned already about matches being terminated due to mass quitters. There is however an alternative and its been mentioned a few times already as well, which is the possibility for a team to collectively decide to call it a loss. This is the best answer to premades stomping pugs for the sake of their numbers and sad little egos. Not only would you rob these players of their numbers and kills you also dont have to force the losing side to be farmed over and over. Id say in a match if 5 people in an 8 man team press the give up button the match is ended like normal and the weeklies and dailies progress like any other match. Its still a point for the losers and the premade gets the win they never really cared about. I think warzones desperaly need this option because the only ones who are negatively affected by it are kill farming premades and punishing these players for their griefing ways is what we should all strive for.

[VegaMist]

6 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

There is however an alternative and its been mentioned a few times already as well, which is the possibility for a team to collectively decide to call it a loss. This is the best answer to premades stomping pugs for the sake of their numbers and sad little egos. Not only would you rob these players of their numbers and kills you also dont have to force the losing side to be farmed over and over. Id say in a match if 5 people in an 8 man team press the give up button the match is ended like normal and the weeklies and dailies progress like any other match. Its still a point for the losers and the premade gets the win they never really cared about. I think warzones desperaly need this option because the only ones who are negatively affected by it are kill farming premades and punishing these players for their griefing ways is what we should all strive for.

This could effectively lead to win-trading which is never good for PVP environment.

[Wulfurkin]

2 hours ago, VegaMist said:

This could effectively lead to win-trading which is never good for PVP environment.

Even if thats a risk its still better than how it is now. Win trading has no meaning in a game without a ranked mode.

[VegaMist]

28 minutes ago, Wulfurkin said:

Even if thats a risk its still better than how it is now. Win trading has no meaning in a game without a ranked mode.

Sure... You must not have followed any of the conquest points related threads. Last thing we need is another nerf in that department.

[Wulfurkin]

21 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

Sure... You must not have followed any of the conquest points related threads. Last thing we need is another nerf in that department.

Cq points are no valid excuse to not do something about the poor state of pvp

[VegaMist]

27 minutes ago, Wulfurkin said:

Cq points are no valid excuse to not do something about the poor state of pvp

Something that promotes win-trading would result in even poorer state of pvp.

[DeannaVoyager]

5 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

Cq points are no valid excuse to not do something about the poor state of pvp

It's valid for people who don't play pvp because they like it, but play it for cqp. For that we can thank BS because there are not enough good conquest objectives for pve. To be competitive in conquest, people need to play pvp. BS wants more people to play pvp but are unwilling to do the changes it requires, so they just toss in random conquest players who don't care about pvp at all. The result is quite obvious.

[Wulfurkin]

6 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

It's valid for people who don't play pvp because they like it, but play it for cqp. For that we can thank BS because there are not enough good conquest objectives for pve. To be competitive in conquest, people need to play pvp. BS wants more people to play pvp but are unwilling to do the changes it requires, so they just toss in random conquest players who don't care about pvp at all. The result is quite obvious.

This is a fair point, i agree on this. Still i think to make those changes something has to be done about these lopsided warzones. Perhaps removing the deserter debuff is the only way, even if this means matches being terminated due to players leaving. The only ones who really suffer the consequence of that will be the stacked premades which i consider a good thing.

[wepeel]

On 4/11/2024 at 4:02 PM, Wulfurkin said:

Its best if the penalties stay because of reasons mentioned already about matches being terminated due to mass quitters. There is however an alternative and its been mentioned a few times already as well, which is the possibility for a team to collectively decide to call it a loss. This is the best answer to premades stomping pugs

I don't know, it seems to put the onus on the people getting farmed to give up collectively, and doesn't seem better than the individual being allowed (with relatively small repercussions) to leave. I'd consider at least the following three alternatives to be better:

1. Prevent the forming of premades altogether, i.e. you can only solo queue. This would seem like the most direct way of addressing the problem, even if pvp matchups will still be uneven.

2. Premades not prevented but if you do queue with 2+ people you can only get matched vs other configurations with 2+ people queued, and you will have to wait in the queue until that happens. This allows for premades to exist but might lead to the waiting time becoming longer both for them and solo players.

3. Allow players to preview participants and queue status of the warzone/arena before accepting to join, including an indicator showing if some players queued together. That way, if you don't want to play vs a premade you can simply opt out; no penalty needed since you never joined to begin with.

[sauerkraut]

On 4/9/2024 at 3:47 PM, Darkestmonty said:

you probably weren't around at release then.

You can dig through this forum to find posts from 2011 and 2012 of player begging the devs to do something about all the people abandoning matches.

Half your team abandoning the game the moment the other side is slightly ahead pretty much guarantees a loss. Now you are 4 vs 8 and even if you are trying your best, replacements take time and with our population may not even show up.

Now you have a team that is not only behind in points but has less people and anyone joining the losing team now has to figure out what is going on when they load in and if they want to bother staying.

So, now they stay and don't do anything. Big achievement. 👍👍

[Darkestmonty]

28 minutes ago, sauerkraut said:

So, now they stay and don't do anything. Big achievement. 👍👍

sometimes players that give up now AFK, sometimes they ignore objectives and fight and ignore objectives. Once multiple people start abandoning a match the game is lost. It takes time to find replacements, it takes time for replacements who stay to figure out what is going on, and it takes even more to move into position. Mean while the enemy team who has had a full team the whole match and started off ahead is not much further ahead because they are fighting a team missing multiple players.

We used to have a vote kick system, it worked very well in Warzones as a deterrent for AFKing. Once vote kick was taken out people openly AFKd anywhere at any time and there was nothing we players could do about it.

Edited April 14 by Darkestmonty

[Monterone]

On 4/14/2024 at 3:09 PM, Darkestmonty said:

sometimes players that give up now AFK, sometimes they ignore objectives and fight and ignore objectives. Once multiple people start abandoning a match the game is lost. It takes time to find replacements, it takes time for replacements who stay to figure out what is going on, and it takes even more to move into position. Mean while the enemy team who has had a full team the whole match and started off ahead is not much further ahead because they are fighting a team missing multiple players.

We used to have a vote kick system, it worked very well in Warzones as a deterrent for AFKing. Once vote kick was taken out people openly AFKd anywhere at any time and there was nothing we players could do about it.

The only way vote kick would work is if the time penalties are also removed, otherwise it would lead to even worse abuses. Getting kicked now would almost certainly add increasing time penalties, so a group of players could figure out how to keep someone locked out for hours at a time, if they wanted to.

I'm ok with bringing vote kicking back in, but they'd have to remove all time lockouts at the same time.