Class Balance Issues

[AocaVII]

Think this out, this is a vicious cycle you think you have overpowered classes then they underpower the overpowered classes then the other classes seem overpowered and it just is a cycle that goes on and on and on and on. You have to live with the classes that you have and learn to cope with it. 

Nerf something, other classes seem op 

Stop trusting these devs to fix your problems. They don't know how to do it correctly and make it worse.

There have been 10 K posts on op classes over 12 years. Do you see no more op classes?

They mess up the class and make it not playable or they nerf the spec and you can't play it anymore. 

Mm sniper and merc were op now they both are garbage. Merc u can't kite. Mm has bad DMG. Merc has the lowest DMG.

They both are C tier, the worst teir. They used to be top tier.

Both have become the lowest tier spec and class.

When the Nerfed powertech/ vanguards, assassins, they were unplayable for 5 years. Assassins were much more playable though but never top tier again. 

Every class has weaknesses. What you have to do, is do the work play the class find out the weakness and then use it to kill the class.

I'll give you a few hints powertech/vanguard do not have good CC immunity and they don't handle pressure well with two/three mediocre defensives. So press the buttons and continuously cc them. It's you, not the other class.

Sorcerers are non burst, aoe, dot fluff DMG classes all they need is a little pressure and they can do no damage. You should have been around when they were truly a burst class but they over nerfed it.

Snipers are best killed by range classes. If you are on a melee class, avoid snipers line of sight them. Don't try to chase snipers around if they're good you will never get them.

So ultimately what happens is less players play because people like their classes that they play and their specs and when they can't play them anymore they don't play. 

It's a lose-lose situation. It's something that you have to adjust to and grow from. 

The world isn't going to just change its way to suit how you want it. You have to make adjustments and change how you do things in order to be better. 

The classes most people are complaining about are not even top tier right now top tier is rage juggernaut, I believe annihilation Marauder, and AP power tech and one other one you can look it up for yourself. 

AP power tech deserves to have the burst because it was unplayable for half of the games lifespan.

You need bursty classes because with heals and guards people never die.

I guess whoever is concurring with the original poster doesn't understand what it looks like when this game had it to where nothing ever died. It was the most annoying thing ever.

 

Edited April 21 by AocaVII

[meddani]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:44 PM, AocaVII said:

Mm sniper and merc were op now they both are garbage. 

 

stopped reading there, sniper just has a high skill cap but merc being garbage? best dcds in the game since 5.0 

[AocaVII]

On 4/23/2024 at 11:55 AM, meddani said:

stopped reading there, sniper just has a high skill cap but merc being garbage? best dcds in the game since 5.0 

Marksman sniper is a C tier class in PvP as well as Mercenary because they both don't do sufficient damage to kill people.  C tier is the worst btw.

I will hold your hand here and direct you to expert PvPers on YouTube and theory crafters that test all this stuff and make tiers for classes and specs in PvP. Go to YouTube and search for swtor class tier. I don't just go there and look I know because I've played both classes/spec since launch and right now they're both not pumping out enough damage.

The dcds mean nothing if you can't kill anything. 

This is also a bad mentality people play tanks, stealth classes, and mercenaries because of the defensives/ability to cloak so they don't instant die because they're not skilled enough to play anything swishy but they can't do any damage so there's just no point. 

That's like having a huge weapon that can sit there and take damage forever but never does any damage. Explain to me how that makes any sense?

Edited April 24 by AocaVII

[Anhkriva]

12 hours ago, AocaVII said:

Marksman sniper is a C tier class in PvP as well as Mercenary because they both don't do sufficient damage to kill people.  C tier is the worst btw.

I will hold your hand here and direct you to expert PvPers on YouTube and theory crafters that test all this stuff and make tiers for classes and specs in PvP. Go to YouTube and search for swtor class tier. I don't just go there and look I know because I've played both classes/spec since launch and right now they're both not pumping out enough damage.

The dcds mean nothing if you can't kill anything. 

This is also a bad mentality people play tanks, stealth classes, and mercenaries because of the defensives/ability to cloak so they don't instant die because they're not skilled enough to play anything swishy but they can't do any damage so there's just no point. 

That's like having a huge weapon that can sit there and take damage forever but never does any damage. Explain to me how that makes any sense?

I specifically went to YT and looked for pvp tier (done about 3 months ago) and one had the arsenal as C/B-tier (arena/wz) and the other as A-tier, and both used the S-D scale, a reliable source of information for someone starting pvp lol. DO NOT USE YT AS A SOURCE OF INFORMATION.

The facts are that there is no shortage of people playing as arsenal/gunners in PvP, what's more, they regularly end matches with a large number of kills (3-5 in arenas and 30+ in wz). It's true that they have the worst damage, but the statement that you can't kill anything with them this is quite an exaggeration, with the current state of pvp you can kill anything you want with them.

[VegaMist]

3 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

they regularly end matches with a large number of kills (3-5 in arenas...

Do they execute a teammate to get 5? Seems harsh...

Oh, I guess you meant both rounds combined. 😉

Edited April 25 by VegaMist

[Liarrrra]

4 hours ago, VegaMist said:

Do they execute a teammate to get 5? Seems harsh...

Despicable! I support these players, where do I find them?

[AocaVII]

9 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

I specifically went to YT and looked for pvp tier (done about 3 months ago) and one had the arsenal as C/B-tier (arena/wz) and the other as A-tier, and both used the S-D scale, a reliable source of information for someone starting pvp lol. DO NOT USE YT AS A SOURCE OF INFORMATION.

The facts are that there is no shortage of people playing as arsenal/gunners in PvP, what's more, they regularly end matches with a large number of kills (3-5 in arenas and 30+ in wz). It's true that they have the worst damage, but the statement that you can't kill anything with them this is quite an exaggeration, with the current state of pvp you can kill anything you want with them.

Any class can kill garbo players. I'm talking about real players not bots. I have had many, many six - eight person pre-mades vs pre-made with ranked and some of the best/experienced players on the server. No one ever plays a commando or mercenary for DPS.

Yes the DOT spec is a higher tier however the dot spec really is not a main thing that people play in PvP that understand PVP because it makes you very immobile on a class where you already can't kite.

The rotations are long and impractical in most PVP scenarios. In order to maximize your killing potential, you have to have specific circumstances which are rare. So in other words it's not reliable DPS.

For example you're in a heavy melee war zone and you have four people jumping on you the whole war zone what are you going to do? Die 10 times pretty much. Example 2, the other team has great healing with tanks the highest hit mercenary dots do is below 60k; you will never kill anything. Engineering sniper hardest hit 140k or better, Juggernaut hardest hit 100K or better, Marauder 50kish but bursty, powertech 100k.

To me it's just a player playing Merc dps is not quick enough to hit defensives and doesn't want to use a class with less defensives or harder to execute defenses that can do better damage/killing in more scenarios or if they just enjoy playing it, so be it.

Reliable DPS that kills good players in every circumstance:  marauder, power tech/non dot, engineering sniper and rage juggernaut. Assassin can be bursty but it's too squishy for regular wz, fine for arenas. Operative outside of arenas rn is a troll class 

Also there's two types of classes there's direct damage burst classes which actually kill things.

Then on the contrary there's trolling classes which are mostly dot classes where yeah you can get 20K DPS but get three kills but you can e-flex and it looks like you're a great player. I play dot classes to troll not to actually kill good players, just for fun. And I never derp my group if I want to premade with a class that doesn't kill anything quickly.

This is also why you don't nerf  bursting classes because like I said in a different post I've been in this game long enough to see when they Nerf the classes in this way it is so bad that nothing dies it is the worst possible PVP you can ever imagine.

 

Edited April 25 by AocaVII

[sithBracer]

4 hours ago, AocaVII said:

Any class can kill garbo players. I'm talking about real players not bots. I have had many, many six - eight person pre-mades vs pre-made with ranked and some of the best/experienced players on the server. No one ever plays a commando or mercenary for DPS.

That is complete nonsense. Lot's of good players player mercs/mandos, even today when so many of them left. I played 8man vs 8 man premade a few weeks ago and the opponent had 2 merc dps and a merc heals. And our team had a merc dps (maybe 2??) and a merc heals. The class I see rarely played nowadays is op dps, both leth and esp concealment (I was the only leth op btw).

4 hours ago, AocaVII said:

Yes the DOT spec is a higher tier however the dot spec really is not a main thing that people play in PvP that understand PVP because it makes you very immobile on a class where you already can't kite.

Once again, complete nonsense. The DoT spec has more mobility than arsenal. The reason few people play it is because it actually requires skill to play it properly, while arsenal can be played with one hand. Arsenal is the easiest spec in the game, it is why so many people play it. No skill required at all. The issue with IO is the setup and energy management, which require more skill to balance out properly. It is so much easier than than it was before 6.X though.

 

4 hours ago, AocaVII said:

For example you're in a heavy melee war zone and you have four people jumping on you the whole war zone what are you going to do? Die 10 times pretty much. Example 2, the other team has great healing with tanks the highest hit mercenary dots do is below 60k; you will never kill anything. Engineering sniper hardest hit 140k or better, Juggernaut hardest hit 100K or better, Marauder 50kish but bursty, powertech 100k.

Yes, if 4 people attack you at once you are supposed to die. No class can or should survive against a 4 person zerg. Merc, ironically is one of the few classes that can survive it for the longest period of time. Merc is a ranged class. Assuming team skill is even, if you are putting yourself in a position where you can be ganked so easily, it is 100% your fault. This is so common with merc players, it is almost a meme. The ridiculously OP defenses they have make them lazy and unable to learn proper positioning. The amount of merc players that I see constantly standing in "dead man's land" is just unbelievable. And while other classes hit hard, they don't have amazing defenses or the FU net to make up for it. A class can't have literally everything. If you want defenses, range, enet, self heals, etc you have to give something up. Personally I want mercs to go back to how they were in 4.X where they hit hard but had to actually learn positioning to stay alive. With no more solo ranked, there is no point to all these defenses and they are creating terrible players who can't even strafe away from an AoE.

 

4 hours ago, AocaVII said:

To me it's just a player playing Merc dps is not quick enough to hit defensives and doesn't want to use a class with less defensives or harder to execute defenses that can do better damage/killing in more scenarios or if they just enjoy playing it, so be it.

So, they are playing an EZ mode class with OP defenses because it is just so easy, and are refusing to learn to play better and instead just stick to complaining.

 

4 hours ago, AocaVII said:

Reliable DPS that kills good players in every circumstance:  marauder, power tech/non dot, engineering sniper and rage juggernaut. Assassin can be bursty but it's too squishy for regular wz, fine for arenas. Operative outside of arenas rn is a troll class

Yeah, other classes hit harder because they don't have the same tools as mercs do. They either don't have range, or OP defenses, or net, or self heals. In return they hit harder, but are less survivable. And I disagree about operative. While leth op isn't even close to as good as it was before the nerf, they are still very decent in warzones and arenas. I play it all the time and still find it enjoyable even though I hit like a wet noodle with lethal strike.

Exception of course is AP PT, that class is just OP, especially with the 20% accuracy debuff.

Edited April 25 by sithBracer

[AocaVII]

21 hours ago, sithBracer said:

That is complete nonsense. Lot's of good players player mercs/mandos, even today when so many of them left. I played 8man vs 8 man premade a few weeks ago and the opponent had 2 merc dps and a merc heals. And our team had a merc dps (maybe 2??) and a merc heals. The class I see rarely played nowadays is op dps, both leth and esp concealment (I was the only leth op btw).

Once again, complete nonsense. The DoT spec has more mobility than arsenal. The reason few people play it is because it actually requires skill to play it properly, while arsenal can be played with one hand. Arsenal is the easiest spec in the game, it is why so many people play it. No skill required at all. The issue with IO is the setup and energy management, which require more skill to balance out properly. It is so much easier than than it was before 6.X though.

 

Yes, if 4 people attack you at once you are supposed to die. No class can or should survive against a 4 person zerg. Merc, ironically is one of the few classes that can survive it for the longest period of time. Merc is a ranged class. Assuming team skill is even, if you are putting yourself in a position where you can be ganked so easily, it is 100% your fault. This is so common with merc players, it is almost a meme. The ridiculously OP defenses they have make them lazy and unable to learn proper positioning. The amount of merc players that I see constantly standing in "dead man's land" is just unbelievable. And while other classes hit hard, they don't have amazing defenses or the FU net to make up for it. A class can't have literally everything. If you want defenses, range, enet, self heals, etc you have to give something up. Personally I want mercs to go back to how they were in 4.X where they hit hard but had to actually learn positioning to stay alive. With no more solo ranked, there is no point to all these defenses and they are creating terrible players who can't even strafe away from an AoE.

 

So, they are playing an EZ mode class with OP defenses because it is just so easy, and are refusing to learn to play better and instead just stick to complaining.

 

Yeah, other classes hit harder because they don't have the same tools as mercs do. They either don't have range, or OP defenses, or net, or self heals. In return they hit harder, but are less survivable. And I disagree about operative. While leth op isn't even close to as good as it was before the nerf, they are still very decent in warzones and arenas. I play it all the time and still find it enjoyable even though I hit like a wet noodle with lethal strike.

Exception of course is AP PT, that class is just OP, especially with the 20% accuracy debuff.

These ideas delude players misleading them into thinking something is true when it's not which only continues this whole delusional theory about PVP that fools new players into adapting bad ideas about PVP which doesn't help improve our awful dysfunctional PVP situation.

A large percentage of matches that are played are absolutely awful you might get one two out of 10 matches that are actually decent. There's a reason for that and it's how people think.

You are living in a different reality than I am. I'm not adapting to your perception of reality. I know and see clearly what the class is and the state of PVP.

I have played this class a very long time and observed other people play this class. Right now it is not in a good place. Most people do know this. It's not a good idea to spread ideas that are not correct for players who don't know.

This is common knowledge among experienced good players. In addition, there are a lot of things in PvP that are just common knowledge that good experienced players know and what I see in war zones is the exact opposite for most of the time.

Yes I realize you love the class and the genre and your blinded by that. It wouldn't be the first of many many times that I have seen this. 

There's many classes and specs that I loved but I played them out in their bad state and they're just not good for the game in war zones so I just don't play them anymore because they're not optimal and don't make the playing experience good for anyone.

Well it's good if you want to farm players that are under false ideas but it doesn't improve balance.

When I see a merc, I literally am like okay how fast can I kill him. There's not even the thought that there have the capacity to kill me. Now if I see other classes that are much better I know that I'm going to have to work much harder to not to die and kill them.

 

Edited April 26 by AocaVII

[Ajalkaar]

On 3/18/2024 at 8:56 PM, MercMara said:

When you can hit 18-21k DPS in a Voidstar from all single target damage the spec is broken. 

Almost every spec can do that you just need to have a good uptime.

[Ajalkaar]

On 4/25/2024 at 7:29 AM, Anhkriva said:

 

On 4/24/2024 at 6:19 PM, AocaVII said:

Marksman sniper is a C tier class in PvP as well as Mercenary because they both don't do sufficient damage to kill people.  C tier is the worst btw.

I will hold your hand here and direct you to expert PvPers on YouTube and theory crafters that test all this stuff and make tiers for classes and specs in PvP. Go to YouTube and search for swtor class tier. I don't just go there and look I know because I've played both classes/spec since launch and right now they're both not pumping out enough damage.

The dcds mean nothing if you can't kill anything. 

This is also a bad mentality people play tanks, stealth classes, and mercenaries because of the defensives/ability to cloak so they don't instant die because they're not skilled enough to play anything swishy but they can't do any damage so there's just no point. 

That's like having a huge weapon that can sit there and take damage forever but never does any damage. Explain to me how that makes any sense?

Expand  

I specifically went to YT and looked for pvp tier (done about 3 months ago) and one had the arsenal as C/B-tier (arena/wz) and the other as A-tier, and both used the S-D scale, a reliable source of information for someone starting pvp lol. DO NOT USE YT AS A SOURCE OF INFORMATION.

The facts are that there is no shortage of people playing as arsenal/gunners in PvP, what's more, they regularly end matches with a large number of kills (3-5 in arenas and 30+ in wz). It's true that they have the worst damage, but the statement that you can't kill anything with them this is quite an exaggeration, with the current state of p

 

I’ll try to explain to you why merc especially arsenal isn’t that great 

first point is mobility. If you take reflect you basically are a dummy with 1.4M hp that’s all there’s no point having 2,5 health bar if they just gonna disappear in 30s because you’re too easy to tunnel.

Second point for arsenal dmg. Burst heavily rely on rng you have to crit to actually put pressure on someone but when it does it can hit like a truck

another things is that arsenal is a heavy cast spec most of your dps and procs come from casted abilities if you can’t cast your dps is basically inexistent. 
Adding a trash mobility on top of that and you get why arsenal merc is bad in PvP.

It literally feels like driving a truck

 

 

[darksidenerd]

On 4/21/2024 at 7:44 AM, AocaVII said:

 

Every class has weaknesses. What you have to do, is do the work play the class find out the weakness and then use it to kill the class.

 

 

This is a refreshing post. I agree with every word especially this part. If nerds spent less time in here and more time playing, they would be able to kill the so called "OP classes".