Time to change the rules !

[Sauvraign]

Hello, I have no more patience for the pvp now especially in warzone.

People play only for the kill and not for the objective, so many time it happens and we lose easely because of it.
It could be interesting to not giving point by killing people, just be an help of course. The only way to win and giving points + valor points should be capping the objectives and defending them.

Probably with that restriction, people should start playing the objectives.

How many time I see people completely ignore the objectives in pvp and put the other half team having troubles.

I suggest to create a new mode like Arenas but for 16 people with only kill as objective. So if people love to play for the kill, they should be happy in this kind of mode.

Edited January 12 by Sauvraign

[Monterone]

This is my number one reason why PvP sucks now. There were always people like this around, but they used to be a minority. It appears to me, after re-subbing less than a couple of weeks ago, the the majority of current players are numbers chasers... but they are not even as good as the players of old were. They're crappier players who only think they're good.

I look at it as selfishness, pure self-absorption -- narcissism if you will. They only care about a small sliver of a team game, their own numbers (that no one but them pays attention to), and all of it at the cost of losing the game for everyone else. It's like they've never been on a good team in real life, or played a team sport.

This piss poor quality of PvP today, combined with time penalties for leaving or getting dropped, even for paying subscribers, is probably why this re-sub will only last for about a month. I can always come back in a few months and check out if the devs got their **** together and fixed all this.

[Beyrahl]

There's a magnitude of difference in PvP today compared to before. It's a complete disservice to say PvPing in a PvP mode shouldn't be the main objective, the entire creation of objectives was to give reasons to fight, locations, and advantages or disadvantages of doing it. King of the Hill on Odessen favors any team fighting AoE spec, hutt ball applies movement penalties to the carrier, ancient hyper gate is a more simplified version of Civil War, Civil War is a team allocation mode, void stars a zerg / off-node fighter map, Novare coast is civil war but with more emphasis on mid-fight as it's closer to both spawns. So on.. There are flaws in each map and some classes just do better depending on allocation or map type. 

While there is a large amount of all types Obj/Tdm/afkers it's more so difficult to differentiate afker from objer at times, than a tdm vs afker. It's rather disconnected to think someone keeping multiple people's attention isn't benefitting your team by giving a numbers advantage, which by the way is stronger than ever now than before. While both types of players are required to win, even just tdmers would do as long as one is okay with not participating quite often to do community services like guarding a node or clicking a shiny with little interaction.

We don't need the afkers. It's far too apparent people can't handle dying or losing to the point they grief their allies. TDM players aren't griefing, they're playing, arguably a lot more than Objers are. They both want the same thing, action, however, objers most of the time face no opposition in what they want to do and get caught in the crossfire of people wanting to fight. In terms of ability to play, objing is less APM, less skill, less effort, and generally lacks gameplay action when doing community service as node defense. Nearly all objectives and how to play them are solved and aren't very dynamic, the only people still getting capped on today don't know what they're doing or no one comes to back them up. 

While it seems like I am dogging on Objective playstyle, I assure you I am not. I played strictly objectives or objectively for a long time in this game and with as many wins/games I have at a higher level it does become meaningless. There's nothing to chase, nothing to go for, and no one usually to oppose, it's an empty hollow existence that leads you to despise your teammates because they don't do what you expect them to do. If you play objectives and rely on someone else to get the job done at any point you're likely having a terrible PvP experience and generally all fun is drained from the game mode for you. Learn how to be self-sufficient and lower your standards of what someone may do, if it's not enough for you start grouping with like-minded players. The list of reasons why someone may not do what you think they should is far too high. A lot of people still can barely run the game, most will accidentally open a menu that will lag them out in the panic of just getting the hutt ball and so on. Generally, the game isn't competitive, and when it's not there are a lot of people there casually and unprepared, it's like ranked elitism brought to the casual pvp mode, the same thing you'd hate from ranked players you're doing to those unprepared casual warzone game mode players. 

Do what you still have fun with, but if you're relying on others and not trying to group you're doing yourself a complete disservice and blaming the wrong things. For those who don't believe a TDM-style player or even someone who just wants to kill isn't beneficial, here's a backfill (someone already considered this a loss) that's won single-handedly. 
Here's another playing objective on one of the worst specs to play objectives on my main/most known toon, I also talk about the topic of Objers.
And here's an example of fighting against odds all game and pulling ahead for being capable of doing so. What we were able to do directly caused the win and made playing objectives free for our team. 

For future reference, most maps now include kills for points if you own a node, so in things like Hypergate, or Civil war, getting kills is greatly benefitting the team. Voidstar goes off of kills if tied on distance/time, huttball goes off of the last person holding if tied, OPG is unique and goes to the highest number past 600 if tied, and doesn't end till someone ticks over 600. Novare only ends if a team hits 0% so on. 

While I may not be the average player it doesn't change the fundamentals of the game, people may not make as big of an impact, and I may not always, but that's where the team part comes into play. Sometimes an enemy team will just be better, it's nothing but a sore loser to not accept that and get angry about it, your teammates are not your enemies so don't treat them like they are, join and help them you'd be surprised how much can be done if you stay together instead of giving up or going alone. 

As for quality, it's due to the lack of competitiveness, there's no reason to learn and the majority of objectives don't face the fighting they used to. Objectives used to be perma fighting and no longer is that case, the objers today would get solo diffed 10x over by any of the ones that played ranked 8v8. You still have to learn the fundamentals of PvP and how to fight/play your class, as most do not bother to learn, don't bother to gear, and generally don't know the first defense of their class. If people played to at least 50% of their potential impact for their class PvP would be higher quality, it's sad that I say 50% but that's a realistic number that most could hit with some low to medium effort. If everyone played 75%+ the PvP honestly just wouldn't be fun anymore, there's severe balance issues and no amount of playing objectives would save anyone. Some combinations will team wipe out even the best of players and if everyone becomes capable it's much easier to do so. So... I would say just step back and remember this is just a game, people will play it how they want, if you want a competitive mode ask for it, both types of players need each other, it just so happens one side is far less experienced and capable, which also inherently lowers the other sides ability due to lack of competition. 

tl;dr this can just be seen as elitism for objs like how ranked elitism existed for people not knowing how to play. It's the same thing except that warzones aren't competitive and are intended as the casual mode. Normally I don't bud into these conversations anymore because both sides are disillusioned by what they want rather than what the game is in reality. One side hates the other, yada yada, lot of logic and reasoning is never useful due to people's feelings being hurt, which, honestly I feel is inevitable because it is often a skill issue on both sides. 

Now for something more constructive as I don't personally have any issues with either type of player and would love to see objectives mean something again with players competently playing them - because frankly, playing them now is far too easy and makes things stale. Here's a video I did in regards to different game modes and trying to deal with obvious team balancing issues & giving a reason to play objective overall again including ranked modes for such. Including a new exclusive tdm mode for players to truly learn and push their ability. 

tl;dr of the video is Solo Ranked 8v8 & how to balance it including maintaining a feeling of reward. 6v6 TDM with functional limits on class stacking to keep it diverse but still consistent enough to build reasonable compositions by chance. Map redesigns including potential for tdm on every map, including reskins of the same maps to spice it up with low effort by devs to be created. So on, shorter video. 
 

[Shenyu]

^ what he said

 

[Monterone]

TDM is selfishness in warzones. Warzones are made for teamwork and finishing the objectives. In order to do that you need to kill people, but not fight off node and chase them around the map. Huttball is completely about objectives, that's why TDM people hate it so much.

Anyone that wants to TDM can queue for arenas, that's what that game mode is made for; it has no other objective other than TDM.

People who TDM in warzones are just too scared to q for arenas. 

They also wouldn't last a day in the old 8v8 ranked, where each map had its own strategy and each role had a part to play. Everyone was focused on playing a better and smarter game... and winning. This new breed of players who just TDM are just in their own heads, and screwing everyone else on the team.

[AlainaFlute]

On 1/12/2024 at 9:04 PM, Monterone said:

This is my number one reason why PvP sucks now. There were always people like this around, but they used to be a minority. It appears to me, after re-subbing less than a couple of weeks ago, the the majority of current players are numbers chasers... but they are not even as good as the players of old were. They're crappier players who only think they're good.

I look at it as selfishness, pure self-absorption -- narcissism if you will. They only care about a small sliver of a team game, their own numbers (that no one but them pays attention to), and all of it at the cost of losing the game for everyone else. It's like they've never been on a good team in real life, or played a team sport.

This piss poor quality of PvP today, combined with time penalties for leaving or getting dropped, even for paying subscribers, is probably why this re-sub will only last for about a month. I can always come back in a few months and check out if the devs got their **** together and fixed all this.

OMG! This! So much this!! You easily put into words what I've been feeling for the last few months in pvp. And it's just not fun anymore. Which is sad because pvp used to be my favorite part of the game. But these number farming narcissists have just sucked the life out of pvp.

[sauerkraut]

They need to get rid of the end of the game chart. Kills, deaths, damage and other useless, crap. Only win or lose, and no point for losing.

[Monterone]

5 hours ago, sauerkraut said:

They need to get rid of the end of the game chart. Kills, deaths, damage and other useless, crap. Only win or lose, and no point for losing.

And adding in game voice chat would be a plus also after all these years. I still can't believe in game voice chat is not in yet.

Imagine how much that would bridge the gap between premades and groups of solo queuers, if those solo people could talk to each other like premades do. People don't have to chat if they don't want to, but being able to call incs while fighting, not having to stop and type, or call a healer, or a strategy, would be a night and day difference.

[ZUHFB]

On 1/12/2024 at 3:12 AM, Sauvraign said:

Hello, I have no more patience for the pvp now especially in warzone.

On 1/13/2024 at 3:04 AM, Monterone said:

This is my number one reason why PvP sucks now.

Warzones aren't PvP. It says so in game.

I for my part am only queueing for warzones because there is less premades of capables players in those. Facing 4 decent players in an arena while having warzone allies -> alt+f4

I will keep deathmatching in warzones, everything else is boring. There is no rewards for winning, thus there is no point trying to do so. Sometimes I'm ultra tilted and I just need something easy to game, then I queue warzones. It's so relaxing, and really funny - it just makes me very happy watching people try to play  The way I see things I'm playing the game in a way that makes me have fun, and people who want to get... well... nothing? can go do that then. I'm not flaming in the warzones (or arenas), I'm barely even using or reading chat.

4 hours ago, Monterone said:

And adding in game voice chat would be a plus also after all these years. I still can't believe in game voice chat is not in yet.

oh hell yeah, that would be fire - oh my days even the thought brings a smile to my face, this would be great!

 

Edited January 19 by ZUHFB

[AocaVII]

This has been played for so long doing ojbs and dmg.

You have ppl clicking for 15 mins taking 30k dps in their face/dying 15 times or running around capping stuff they can't hold bc they can't kill players

PVP 101 - Kill player or get them to back off w/ pressure from dps then click and do ojbs.

This is how u win. Ppl don't wanna do the work to do better dps they rather just come in and click stuff 

It's not one or the other/black or white it's both

Can't u do objs very ez when other team is in spawn or rather have them in  your face? not hard to understand.

[Monterone]

12 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

I for my part am only queueing for warzones because there is less premades of capables players in those. Facing 4 decent players in an arena while having warzone allies -> alt+f4

I will keep deathmatching in warzones, everything else is boring.

 

That's 100% what I said above too.

People are too scared to queue arenas, so they come into warzones and death match. I just didn't expect anyone to come in right after that and admit to it. At least you own your bad.

[sauerkraut]

19 hours ago, Monterone said:

And adding in game voice chat would be a plus also after all these years. I still can't believe in game voice chat is not in yet.

Imagine how much that would bridge the gap between premades and groups of solo queuers, if those solo people could talk to each other like premades do. People don't have to chat if they don't want to, but being able to call incs while fighting, not having to stop and type, or call a healer, or a strategy, would be a night and day difference.

Absolutely. Even SWG had voice chat.

[Anhkriva]

23 hours ago, Monterone said:

And adding in game voice chat would be a plus also after all these years. I still can't believe in game voice chat is not in yet.

Imagine how much that would bridge the gap between premades and groups of solo queuers, if those solo people could talk to each other like premades do. People don't have to chat if they don't want to, but being able to call incs while fighting, not having to stop and type, or call a healer, or a strategy, would be a night and day difference.

Adding voice chat would be nice, but I think you're overestimating its effect. My experience from other games tells me that most randoms will turn it off anyway.

[denajii]

59 minutes ago, Anhkriva said:

Adding voice chat would be nice, but I think you're overestimating its effect. My experience from other games tells me that most randoms will turn it off anyway.

I know I would, the text chat alone can get unpleasant enough, can't imagine how voice chat would be

[ZUHFB]

8 hours ago, Monterone said:

People are too scared to queue arenas, so they come into warzones and death match. I just didn't expect anyone to come in right after that and admit to it. At least you own your bad

It's absolutely not like this. I do not mind losing arenas one bit, its how I lose. If I face 4 people who can play their class from PvE or whatever while having conquest players in my team its not winable, the outcome is predetermined - it's just boring. I queued yesterday and damn do I miss solo ranked for no other reason than it's possible to lose because its my fault, currently if I queue arenas either I win or it's simply lost from the start. I got into a match: in my team 3x premade from PvE, other team 4 conquest people no clue how to play - it was the most boring match imaginable. I play only for fun, I have all the rewards from everything, I don't need whatever the reason is that people play to win, it doesn't matter to me, I only play for fun and I cannot have fun if I know I'm going to lose OR win. Yesterday I won three 1v2 situations, one of them was a full reset even and a 1v3 on a node in a warzone, but idk if that counts since one of them stood there "guarding" the node while I killed his two teammates and then him, maybe thats the teamplay that was mentioned earlier in this thread?

[TrixxieTriss]

12 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

Adding voice chat would be nice, but I think you're overestimating its effect. My experience from other games tells me that most randoms will turn it off anyway.

Yeah, I don’t use VC to speak. But I would listen to it if others were talking.