7.0 Killed PVP.

[TheOverMind-]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:58 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

To @JackieKo or to @EricMusco, If you have the time to read this, I apologize if my Language is rough or condescending, Understand that it is just almost two years of frustration that I had to let out. But in Seriousness PVP is in Dire need of help, and in fact this whole game is. It needs a Battlefront 2  Comeback. 

2024 is a new year, and I can see that the Dev's are trying to listen to player feedback, if they can start implementing good QOL changes that the PVP community needs, I think we can slowly start rebuilding this game mode.

 

Rebuild? No, the game has been on this way since 2012 and you can't change the way it has been created like the way you mentioned. There is no question about implenting a battlefront 2 into an mmo. It's going too far. They have to deal and stay as much as possible with the concept they have in their hands.

[Setta]

18 hours ago, sithBracer said:

So you want troll roll ultra burst double stun flashbang reflect every 25s operatives back?

You want warzone destroying grit teeth force bound jugg skanks back?

You want maul spam back?

You want 1GCD death PTs back? Or ranged PT lightning sorcs back?

For all the class balance complaints we could make now, it was much worse in 5.X and 6.X.

And you honestly believe that running hammer station over and over is better than doing nightmare mode bosses and hm ops? No, thank you. I'd rather do something that requires just a bit of skill, not mindless grinding.

Whatever the reverse of rose tinted glasses is, well you've got that.  Sure Grit Teeth, can stay nerfed. It's not class pruning, I'm fine with an item staying nerfed same with neural trigger tactical for instance. I think you're taking the statement of almost everything was better and trying to twist it, by being so literally, that you can pick out some very niche / obscure examples to fit your argument.  Oh no a couple items were worse in the previous version of the game, therefore you're wrong.... Give me a break.  As a whole the previous versions of the game were far better in many respects.  Does that mean you can't find small changes that were good from 7.0 going forward?  No, they're there, just small, and usually rare.

Also to pretend that a PT could global you, or that light sorcs now are somehow far worse than they were before, is just lol.  Furthermore if you think that nef / dash spams of staying in place and dpsing / healing (and cleansing) or clearing hm ev / kp takes any semblance of skill, or is somehow any less mind numbing than hammer spams, then again lol.

I mean I guess technically, "technically" you're not wrong, some people have failed to clear a dash or nef run, or don't understand how to do a puzzle in KP that's designed for 2-3 year olds, where as it's basically impossible to fail to clear a hammer run, so these win by default.  But I'm not going to say it's any less mind numbing, just because there are some people who are really, really terrible at the game.

[sithBracer]

7 hours ago, Setta said:

Whatever the reverse of rose tinted glasses is, well you've got that.  Sure Grit Teeth, can stay nerfed. It's not class pruning, I'm fine with an item staying nerfed same with neural trigger tactical for instance. I think you're taking the statement of almost everything was better and trying to twist it, by being so literally, that you can pick out some very niche / obscure examples to fit your argument.  Oh no a couple items were worse in the previous version of the game, therefore you're wrong.... Give me a break.  As a whole the previous versions of the game were far better in many respects.  Does that mean you can't find small changes that were good from 7.0 going forward?  No, they're there, just small, and usually rare.

You literally said revert everything back to before 7.0. But now you don't want to revert to before 7.0? which is it?

And no I am not picking out a few small things in 6.X and saying it was bad. I am saying ALL of 6.X was terrible. The amps, the ridiculous class balance, the silly hammer station grind, the ridiculous set bonuses, the amount of abilities and defenses each class had, the stunfest that wzs became, the multipredation bug that caused us to walk like we were in water, p2w nonsense, force bound armor. It was honestly becoming ridiculous. Even BW said they were having an issue due to class balance just becoming an "arms race" to whomever had more DCDs and that they couldn't realistically continue on that path and balance the integrity of warzones.

I honestly cannot think of even one good thing about 6.X as an expansion, except that it ended. 7.0 had a terrible release with over 200 bugs fixed on the first day, but even with the bugs it was better than 6.X. 7.2 on the other hand ...

Edited January 14 by sithBracer

[Setta]

26 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

You literally said revert everything back to before 7.0. But now you don't want to revert to before 7.0? which is it?

I mean since I started with the premise of except for combat styles, and story content, so that right of the bat is not everything as you put it. It might have been everything that came to mind at that point and time, but since there were exceptions already I was not making an absolute statement but a general one, unlike that of which you seem to be.  But if you're going to take everything literally, ok let's start, as I can play this game too.
 

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And no I am not picking out a few small things in 6.X and saying it was bad. I am saying ALL of 6.X was terrible

I honestly cannot think of even one good thing about 6.X as an expansion, except that it ended. 7.0 had a terrible release with over 200 bugs fixed on the first day, but even with the bugs it was better than 6.X.

So you're good with removing comp pvp? You're good with the current state of pvp of just having premades vs solo quers in warzones, as they get demolished?  You're good with removing the ability to kick people in bgs? You thought that heroics on rotations, and flash points on rotation was good idea? Cause enough people left that Bioware had to revert that.  You thought that the gear grind through GSF was the way to go and better than anything in 6.x did? Cause as you put it 6.x was all trash and that anything in 7.0 onwards was better.  Well my friend you have no idea what you're talking about.  If you legit feel this way you're in a very small minority, cause a ton of people hated all these things and left. A number of changes got reverted because of people leaving, though not as many as there should have been. 
 

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p2w nonsense

Uh what?! What are you even talking about?

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7.0 had a terrible release with over 200 bugs fixed on the first day, but even with the bugs it was better than 6.X.

Honestly I'm going to assume that you're just trolling at this point, cause that's about how seriously I'm taking your response.  Really if this is where you're at there's no point in debating anything with you, cause you're clearly deluded.

[sithBracer]

51 minutes ago, Setta said:

I mean since I started with the premise of except for combat styles, and story content, so that right of the bat is not everything as you put it. It might have been everything that came to mind at that point and time, but since there were exceptions already I was not making an absolute statement but a general one, unlike that of which you seem to be.  But if you're going to take everything literally, ok let's start, as I can play this game too.
 

So you're good with removing comp pvp?

Uh huh, so you are playing "this game" yet you purposely delete the very last sentence in the quote: "7.2 on the other hand ... " to stick that in? dishonest much? No, I was never in favor of that, hence the line "7.2 on the other hand ... " which you once again, removed from your quote for some odd reason.

As for the other stuff. yes I am ok with all of it.

Edited January 14 by sithBracer

[sithBracer]

4 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

Editing your post is a legal feature of this forum. You can't shame people, when they use it.

It exists so you can break posts apart, or only quote specific parts of it that you want to address. When you use it to make it look like someone said something they didn't, or you just want to attack them on a point they already specifically addressed by deleting it in the quote, it is just dishonest at best, scummy trolling at worst. Either way, it doesn't help the conversation.

Edited January 14 by sithBracer

[Setta]

On 1/13/2024 at 11:19 PM, sithBracer said:

You literally said revert everything back to before 7.0. But now you don't want to revert to before 7.0? which is it?

 

On 1/13/2024 at 11:19 PM, sithBracer said:

I honestly cannot think of even one good thing about 6.X as an expansion, except that it ended.

 

On 1/14/2024 at 12:54 AM, sithBracer said:

Uh huh, so you are playing "this game" yet you purposely delete the very last sentence in the quote: "7.2 on the other hand ...

That's because this is how the game is played Johnny boy. Here let me explain.

You see, you decided to take my quote out of context, claiming that I said revert everything back prior to 7.0, which is not what I said, but okay. Then you go on to say, that you cannot think of one good thing about 6.x other than it ended, and finally you're whining about the fact that I misrepresented you.

To me it's funny that you're crying about misrepresentation when you're the one who took my quote out of context first.  But I digress, because here's the thing it was in fact done on purpose. Because now that you whined and complained about it, you've made your position rather clear on removing comp being a bad decision. Which leads us to this, either you can think of something good about 6.0 to it's end at 6.3.2 (as it had comp) and 7.2 onward doesn't, and most likely won't going forward anymore, or as you said you can't and the only good thing about 6.x as an expansion is that it ended.  So this time I'll ask you, which is it?

Cause to the rest of us normal people 7.0+ has continued to ruin one thing after another, over and over again, making changes no one asked for or wanted. That's why most sane people would easily go back pre 7.0. I'd wait for your response but since I honestly think you're a troll anyways, I really don't care.  Have a blessed day.

[sithBracer]

2 hours ago, Setta said:

You see, you decided to take my quote out of context, claiming that I said revert everything back prior to 7.0, which is not what I said, but okay. Then you go on to say, that you cannot think of one good thing about 6.x other than it ended, and finally you're whining about the fact that I misrepresented you.

And here you are once again not telling the truth.

1. You said you wanted to revert everything to before 7.0 except story and combat styles.

2. I brought up a bunch of horrible things in 6.X (btw I can bring up A LOT more).

3. You immediately backpeddled and said "no no no, I didn't mean THAT, I meant something else".

4. I had no idea what you were talking about since you were all over the place, and you just went off.

5. You quoted my text, purposely removed the last line which states I did not like what they did in 7.2, then immediately started talking about 7.2 changes.

Now you are speaking very vaguely about things that don't make sense while throwing out wild accusations without giving any specifics. If all you want is solo ranked back or to be replaced with some kind of competitive scene, just say that.

I btw, have been consistent about what I said and I will repeat it again. 7.0 despite all the bugs and problems it came up with was better than 6.X. 7.2 removing ranked and not replacing it with some kind of competitive system, was a big mistake and should be rectified.

Edited January 16 by sithBracer

[supertimtaf]

26 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

I btw, have been consistent about what I said and I will repeat it again. 7.0 despite all the bugs and problems it came up with was better than 6.X. 7.2 removing ranked and not replacing it with some kind of competitive system, was a big mistake and should be rectified.

It's not often that we both agree on something you and I, but I do agree with these statements 😄

[Exly]

Premade groups killed pvp for me.  I stopped complaining awhile back and stopped pvping at the same time.  Too bad because I used to enjoy it.

[Setta]

7 hours ago, sithBracer said:

And here you are once again not telling the truth.

1. You said you wanted to revert everything to before 7.0 except story and combat styles.

2. I brought up a bunch of horrible things in 6.X (btw I can bring up A LOT more).

3. You immediately backpeddled and said "no no no, I didn't mean THAT, I meant something else".

4. I had no idea what you were talking about since you were all over the place, and you just went off.

5. You quoted my text, purposely removed the last line which states I did not like what they did in 7.2, then immediately started talking about 7.2 changes.

Now you are speaking very vaguely about things that don't make sense while throwing out wild accusations without giving any specifics. If all you want is solo ranked back or to be replaced with some kind of competitive scene, just say that.

I btw, have been consistent about what I said and I will repeat it again. 7.0 despite all the bugs and problems it came up with was better than 6.X. 7.2 removing ranked and not replacing it with some kind of competitive system, was a big mistake and should be rectified.

1) Hey you finally got it right.  There's hope for you yet.

2) So you're really good at whining?  I mean I can bring up a lot of horrible things for 7.x, not wasting my time stating the obvious doesn't mean they're not there.

3) Not really backpedaling, I just didn't realize you were going to go into very specific niche arguments of 7.x is better cause they nerfed a tactical, or some other such bs.  I mean you're really digging into the bottom of the barrel for "good" changes when you're hitting tactical nerfs, but okay yea I suppose that was a change I can agree with.

4) No, don't use that as a cop out now.  You knew exactly what you were saying, and what you were replying too.

5) I didn't want to give you a chance to backpedal or twist your words around later. You left it at : "7.2 on the other hand..." Sure I could assume removing comp, was what you were talking about, but with you I never know.  If it suited your argument you might go into some specific combat class change that you thought was bad or some other such nonsense. Since you seem to pick out obscure / very specific changes I.E tactical nerfs from before, and I needed you to state specifically what you were going on about which you did afterwords. 

That brings us to this and I'll only say it one last time, cause I'm tired of going back and forth with you like a broken record. Your argument is built on a bogus premise of a couple of patches that you seem to support, and that's it. I state I would happily revert back prior to 7.0 (that also means undoing the removal of comp which you think would be a good idea, among several other unwarranted changes IMO). You state that 7.0 was superior, then acknowledge that 7.2 onward was a mistake. Basically cherry picking out a very small portion of the game's life when you think the game was good solely based on your definition of pvp balance, and ignoring all the other issues at hand. That's not how this works. You want to compare 6.x as an expansion to 7.x, compare it to the whole of 7.x not just a couple patches you happen to like. 
 

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Now you are speaking very vaguely about things that don't make sense while throwing out wild accusations without giving any specifics.

Wild accusations? Like calling you a troll? Fair enough I suppose I did.  Being vague? What's vague? My position has been pretty clear, the previous version of the game is superior to the current one.  Unlike you I'm not going to go comment on specific class balance changes from several years ago.  Not only because of the fact, that just because you may have thought something was unfair, doesn't mean it was.  As it could have easily been a skill issue, or a perspective issue based on the class(es) you played, having bad match ups. But also because trying to recall very specific class balance changes from several years ago is foolish. Most people can't agree on balance now a days, and you think I'm going to argue about what was and wasn't balanced from over 2 years ago? Get real. So yea if you want to call that being vague, by all means you got me, but it's just me being practical of not getting into a **** show argument about things we don't clearly remember.

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I btw, have been consistent about what I said and I will repeat it again. 7.0 despite all the bugs and problems it came up with was better than 6.X.

You did say that. You're completely wrong but you did say that. If 7.0+ was better as you say, (even with all it's bugs and problems) Bioware would not have reverted several of the changes they made back then (couple of quick examples heroics being on rotation, flashpoints being on rotation, but there were more).  New expansions generally bring old players back for a little while. Yet while that happened and you can see the increase in player count on launch, an immediate exodus of an already small SWtoR population followed very quickly thereafter by next month. If you look at easily verifiable numbers from steam on those dates, you can see the player increase on 7.0 and the immediate decline in player population. While we don't have none steam numbers, it's safe to assume that there is a correlation between steam players and none steam players in the declining population.  So perhaps the changes made you happy, but by and large they were a failure not only from a business perspective, of attracting new customers, or retaining the old ones, but also from a player's perspective of these changes were not fun, and that the previous version of the game was better.

 

[sithBracer]

1 hour ago, Setta said:

You did say that. You're completely wrong but you did say that. If 7.0+ was better as you say, (even with all it's bugs and problems) Bioware would not have reverted several of the changes they made back then (couple of quick examples heroics being on rotation, flashpoints being on rotation, but there were more).  New expansions generally bring old players back for a little while. Yet while that happened and you can see the increase in player count on launch, an immediate exodus of an already small SWtoR population followed very quickly thereafter by next month. If you look at easily verifiable numbers from steam on those dates, you can see the player increase on 7.0 and the immediate decline in player population. While we don't have none steam numbers, it's safe to assume that there is a correlation between steam players and none steam players in the declining population.  So perhaps the changes made you happy, but by and large they were a failure not only from a business perspective, of attracting new customers, or retaining the old ones, but also from a player's perspective of these changes were not fun, and that the previous version of the game was better.

 

You have absolutely no evidence that it was the changes that caused people to leave and not the hundreds of bugs, broken abilities, phantom GCDs, complete lack of new content, players dying at random times for no reason as well as a variety of other things that could've been the culprit. All you have is a very weak correlation that you are desperately trying to pass off as a causation.

Can you prove that the garbage that was 6.X wasn't the actual cause behind the leaving with the events of 7.0 merely being the straw that broke the camels back? I'll wait.

[Setta]

34 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

You have absolutely no evidence that it was the changes that caused people to leave and not the hundreds of bugs, broken abilities, phantom GCDs, complete lack of new content, players dying at random times for no reason as well as a variety of other things that could've been the culprit. All you have is a very weak correlation that you are desperately trying to pass off as a causation.

Can you prove that the garbage that was 6.X wasn't the actual cause behind the leaving with the events of 7.0 merely being the straw that broke the camels back? I'll wait.

No more than you can prove that it wasn't.  Thing is, this game has always been plagued with bugs, several different bugs as far back as the release that have yet to be fixed. While annoying it's extremely rare that they would make someone legitimately quit playing the game, as bugs can be worked around despite their annoyance, and a few min of inconvenience isn't worth quitting the game over if you legitimately enjoy the game. 

Lack of new content while extremely disappointing is also nothing new for this game, sure some players will eventually leave because of boredom, obviously that's inevitable, but it's not in large droves all at the same time as happened with the release of 7.0, after having originally attracted a large number of people back, only to lose considerably more the following months. People don't stick around, when the game itself isn't fun, and just worse off than it was before. They don't go to the forums to complain over and over again, only to have it fall on deaf ears because the developers are too stubborn and prideful to listen to their player base. When the things they used to do, for enjoyment get revamped for the worse people leave.  Make of that what you will, because you and I both know, no one has went and interviewed every person on why they left. At best they may have given Bioware a piece of their mind when they unsubbed, and Bioware's decision to reverse some of their decisions shortly after the exodus speaks volumes, but no, no one can actually provide physically evidence aside from Broadsword themselves (assuming they still have that feedback), and that's never going to happen. 
 

[ZUHFB]

50 minutes ago, Setta said:

When the things they used to do, for enjoyment get revamped for the worse people leave.

Ranked didn't get revamped, it got removed. It got removed because they couldn't handle top3/leaderboards and combat styles, what they could've done is remove top3 and the leaderboards and they couldve just let ranked be, you know, like GSF. Not only did they remove the only PvP gamemode (warzones are not pvp according to ingame features) but they also handed out ranked rewards for free, literally buyable with credits that we worked years for to get, not only to get the tokens but to be in a position to be integrated into the community, the people who didn't enjoy ranked or said it is toxix quite simply didn't have a stepping stone to catch up to ranked players. ranked players are so far above the average warzone enjoyer I have seen more 1v4 arenas than I care to count.

Honestly, there is little difference in a warzone and a flashpoint anymore, I feel absolutely immortal on specs like ling, sadness or arselul - its so blatantly obvious who can and who can't play that if one opponent manages to be a threat, all I would've to do is play around that person and just enjoy my flashpoint.

I don't even mean to be condecending but its just not fun. Ranked players who only enjoyed the challenge, got exactly that removed. Obviously all quit.

PvE same thing, no R4 NiM? Byebye, heck, can't even say r4 nim or I'm getting banned in swtors twitch chat 🙄Last expansion without a raid was really bad, 4.0 and they just keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again...

[sithBracer]

10 hours ago, Setta said:

No more than you can prove that it wasn't.  Thing is, this game has always been plagued with bugs, several different bugs as far back as the release that have yet to be fixed. While annoying it's extremely rare that they would make someone legitimately quit playing the game, as bugs can be worked around despite their annoyance, and a few min of inconvenience isn't worth quitting the game over if you legitimately enjoy the game. 

Lack of new content while extremely disappointing is also nothing new for this game, sure some players will eventually leave because of boredom, obviously that's inevitable, but it's not in large droves all at the same time as happened with the release of 7.0, after having originally attracted a large number of people back, only to lose considerably more the following months. People don't stick around, when the game itself isn't fun, and just worse off than it was before. They don't go to the forums to complain over and over again, only to have it fall on deaf ears because the developers are too stubborn and prideful to listen to their player base. When the things they used to do, for enjoyment get revamped for the worse people leave.  Make of that what you will, because you and I both know, no one has went and interviewed every person on why they left. At best they may have given Bioware a piece of their mind when they unsubbed, and Bioware's decision to reverse some of their decisions shortly after the exodus speaks volumes, but no, no one can actually provide physically evidence aside from Broadsword themselves (assuming they still have that feedback), and that's never going to happen. 
 

I don't need to prove anything because I didn't make an absolute statement, you did when you said "I was wrong". If you are going to tell someone they are wrong, you need evidence to back it up. All I did is ask if you were ok with all the trash that existed in 6.X and you went ballistic. And when you asked me if I was ok with all the stuff in 7.X I gave you a straight answer, yes I was and still am. You claimed that it was definitely the 7.0 changes that made people unsub, and provided no evidence for it other than a correlation. I asked you to prove that it wasn't the pent up frustration with the previous iteration of the game that was really responsible, with the bugs and lack of content in 7.0 just being the last straw. I even used the common analogy of the straw that broke the camels back. I'm still waiting for an answer.

As for bugs, yes they always existed, but when has BW ever had to fix over 200 bugs in the first week? When have so many abilities not worked? When has the only new piece of content to be released be so broken that it randomly killed players for no reason? Any of these things could've acted like the feather/straw that broke the camels back and caused people to leave.

I personally think it was the lack of new content. People were fed up with BW barely releasing anything new over the many years, they let it boil, decided to give BW one last chance with the new expansion and when they saw nothing new and everything being broken, they decided they had enough and they left. This makes a lot more sense than your theory that 6.X was wonderful, everyone enjoyed it, were singing and dancing, then mean old 7.0 came out, people tried it out for 1 day and were so disappointed by a few combat changes, they left.

Edited January 17 by sithBracer

[DarthKurt]

I agree, I want my powers back.
I spent 10 years learning to play with all the powers.
Now I'm stripped of half of the good ones for PVP. Why ? 
In PVP you need all the tools at your disposal.
Give us our powers back !

[sithBracer]

It's a little funny, when BW took away Assassin's phasewalk, crushing darkness and force lightning and replaced it with trash like "maul with a CD" aka reaping strike and severing slash, no one really cared. It's only when your preferred class gets hit, that it's a real problem I guess.

Edited February 14 by sithBracer

[ZUHFB]

22 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

with trash like "maul with a CD" aka reaping strike

excuse me sir, have you seen the animation of this ability? its freaking awesome, make it deal 10% of its current damage i'd still use it just to look cool ngl

[sithBracer]

10 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:

excuse me sir, have you seen the animation of this ability? its freaking awesome, make it deal 10% of its current damage i'd still use it just to look cool ngl

I played blade and soul, the animation isn't impressive at all.

[wepeel]

On 12/29/2023 at 1:56 AM, TrixxieTriss said:

This would be the easiest & most logical fix. Then any class that is still OP or UP would be easier to balance around. But we know they won’t do this because they’d have to admit they made a mistake to start with. Which is something they are incapable of doing or they would have already wound back the stupid 8 man premade idea.

Maybe the most simple, but probably more logical like OP implies to change how premades work, e.g. if you queue as a group you'll only be matched against other groups and if you solo queue you'll only be matched against other solos. Most "skilled premade" players aren't all that hard to overcome when you place them with randoms. Don't really have to do much more.

[SentinalMasterWW]

I'm going to cut to the chase, PVP is dying. This game mode which used to have a healthy population is literally on hospice care at this point.

Recently I've been taking a break from SWTOR PVP and SWTOR in general and playing other games. I'm going to be honest, I regret coming back to this game. Like the thing is, back in 6.0 and past, I could play this game and have a blast. Now? Now, I just question my existence and why I torture myself. I honestly get in the mood to play SWTOR and want to have fun, than I boot up the game, play for like 10-30 minutes, get bored or annoyed by broken mechanics and than go do something else. Story of the 7.0 expansion in its entirety to be honest. 

There are three things that is ruining PVP imo; Toxic Premades, Broken Meta Classes, and lack of meaningful incentive. 

Regarding Premades, I play on Star Forge and there are some notorious players who shall remained unnamed but are well known in the community for leading premades and being extremely toxic to everyone else. What these players are forgetting, is that by doing this they are driving away players and killing the Q. I question who at Biosword though 8 man premades were a good idea? The experiment failed. NO ONE likes premades except for players who only play in premades to farm solo players. So like 5% of the PVP Population, while the remaining 95% are solo pugs. Basically the vast majority of players get to get farmed by premades because the Dev's literally don't listen to feedback at all, even though we have been reporting this issue since 7.2, so around 2 years now.  Dealing with these premades is basically dealing with High School Drama, not to mention these players act like their in High school. I've seen people say Ranked was toxic, but trust me, it is NOWHERE I repeat NOWHERE as toxic as PVP is currently. 

Regarding Broken Meta, I've said it over and over, these three classes are currently broken. 

1. Madness Sorc. 

2. Ionic Engis. 

3. Skank tank Jug. 

Biosword has done "Nerfs" to these specs but its honestly pathetic, can we get some nerfs to these specs? In fact lets talk about class balancing for a sec. 

Pruning imo ruined the flow of PVP and the whole game in general. In a sad attempt to babify the game, they took all the skill based abilities out, and left a bland experience in its place. Most of PVP is literally just dummy parsing, you do the same 4-5 button rotations over and over again until the player dies. There is no substance to PVP or classes in general anymore. I have preached over and over again that undoing pruning will fix literally almost every balancing issue and is the easiest way to do it because if they do, than it becomes just adjusting %'s here and there and adjusting Tactical's and implants. 

And incentive? There is none, at least of players like me who basically got everything they wanted. Season 2 and 3 of PVP at least had really good looking armor sets, 4 & 5 look like they should've been given to the GSF community. Sooo, if I got everything I wanted and the armor's are not that great, why do I want to PVP? Why do I want to subject myself to being farmed by toxic premades who no life this game 24/7 and ruin the fun for everyone? Why would I want to endure another Proving ground or huttball? If some form of ranked leaderboard or actual ranked mode existed, sure I'd deal with it, but there isn't soooo.... 

Point being of all of this, Why should we care about PVP or Q into it when it has all these issues that go ignored by the Dev's? This has been the same stuff over and over again for two years?! Yet nothing has been done to fix these issues. I come here into the Forums and the #1 topic I always see in the PVP section is Premades. The Dev's are aware of these issues no doubt, they just don't care to fix them. They'd rather put resources into the next Ahsoka Armor set for their Cartel Market. 

When this game's support is axed by the lack of players, and I want to state that Starfield of all games has more active players than SWTOR. Maybe take the declining population as a sign that players are not happy? Maybe take the recent frustrations in the unsub forum's that are popping up that players want MEANINGFUL Change! 

But hey, At least you can cover your armor in metallic gloss for 20$. 

[Samcuu]

Can't u just bump one of the other 35,000 posts you've made saying the same thing? 

[SentinalMasterWW]

4 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Can't u just bump one of the other 35,000 posts you've made saying the same thing? 

The more it's said, the better. Though I doubt biosword will actually do anything, they've proven well nothing tbh. 

 

[Beyrahl]

bump few of mine.
But yes it's borderline dead.

[sithBracer]

7 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

bump few of mine.
But yes it's borderline dead.

At this point, we should just accept it and let it die. It is not coming back, no matter what BW/BS does at this point. No changes that people recommend here will do anything for PvP overall. It's time to let it go.