Dear Broadsword .. update to GTN has ruined my game.

[Savyl]

First of all I'll start on a positive note despite the subject title. I do love the improvement in graphics. I like the new currency system because it allows casual players a chance to get better gear so that they can actually try more challenging content.  The improvement in stats has actually made my character worth playing again. Thank you for that!

On a more sour note, the changes to the GTN has literally ruined my game.  My sales have dropped significantly. Maybe your sales will drop too if you don't fix this. The economy is a big part of the game. The older system although it may be flawed was working. It was better than the new current system. I like seeing everything for sale all at once. I like to have the freedom of choice to choose who I buy from and how much I actually want to pay. I like getting credits in the mail because if I'm on field, or wherever, I can simply summon my mail droid. Everything has become so complicated. It's become a kind of communistic GTN. Player has only one option, to buy the cheapest price. Even then that doesn't always work because sometimes it only allows you to buy one. Seller puts up an item, only to have someone else come along and list the same item for only 1 credit cheaper. It's become a vicious cycle of do you cancel listing and lose expensive listing fee to play this who undersell each other just because you need credits or not? The older system you had the option to list items in the order you want and to choose who you want to buy from or to actually just see everything. I can tell you that nearly everyone on the fleet is complaining about the GTN. Not everyone reads the forums or takes the time to post.  I hate to say this, but a lot of people might stop playing the game if they have no real way to earn credits. The only real solution is to listen to your customers and bring back the old GTN because it actually worked... at least better than this.

 

Thanks for listening.. I hope you do anyway.

[alasamaya]

I feel you. I think the new GTN system does nothing but make the game worse.

[kinhoandrei]

Honestly, I don't understand why the solution always seems to be going back to the past. Is the new system perfect? No, but it's much lighter, cleaner, and simpler. The new sales/purchase history tab is also quite interesting, and there is a great potential for evolution. Why not focus on giving suggestions for improving the new system instead of requesting a return to the old one? This is a problem within the community; it almost never accepts developing something new and more "modern." Recently, the interface redesign was highly controversial because of the crowd that doesn't accept changes. Anyway, it's not exactly a criticism of your post, as I mostly agree with it. The GTN system needs improvement, but that doesn't mean the solution is to go back to the past.

[Savyl]

 I respect your opinion but I still stand by my original opinion and suggestion.  I prefer the old system and I think most do.

[Spikanor]

27 minutes ago, kinhoandrei said:

I don't understand why the solution always seems to be going back to the past.

the old GTN was easyer to understand and there was also no problems with it.

and if you chance something old to compleet new that do's not always mean its doing it work like it most do like the old one has done.

you need to look it more like the game's it self.

you have the old version from game's and there remaster versions.

the remaster versions do's not always tell its going to be much better then the old version was since sometime's the old version was much better then the new versions since the remaster version not has anymore what the old version has.

when the older versions are still the best there are when the remaster versions are doing worse so thats why most of the time's older things in the past are much better then a newer version from it.

[taxidermis]

35 minutes ago, kinhoandrei said:

Honestly, I don't understand why the solution always seems to be going back to the past. Is the new system perfect? No, but it's much lighter, cleaner, and simpler. The new sales/purchase history tab is also quite interesting, and there is a great potential for evolution. Why not focus on giving suggestions for improving the new system instead of requesting a return to the old one? This is a problem within the community; it almost never accepts developing something new and more "modern." Recently, the interface redesign was highly controversial because of the crowd that doesn't accept changes. Anyway, it's not exactly a criticism of your post, as I mostly agree with it. The GTN system needs improvement, but that doesn't mean the solution is to go back to the past.

100% . 

[Bullyabass]

25 minutes ago, kinhoandrei said:

Honestly, I don't understand why the solution always seems to be going back to the past. Is the new system perfect? No, but it's much lighter, cleaner, and simpler. The new sales/purchase history tab is also quite interesting, and there is a great potential for evolution. Why not focus on giving suggestions for improving the new system instead of requesting a return to the old one? This is a problem within the community; it almost never accepts developing something new and more "modern." Recently, the interface redesign was highly controversial because of the crowd that doesn't accept changes. Anyway, it's not exactly a criticism of your post, as I mostly agree with it. The GTN system needs improvement, but that doesn't mean the solution is to go back to the past.

Development is grindingly slow on SWTOR so the assumption is that bringing back the old system will be faster than fixing the new one but the reality is that "going back", even if it was possible, is almost certainly more work than going forward.

Plus developers don't really care what players think; they want to write cool new stuff to prep for a better job elsewhere so zero chance it will get rolled back

The new GTN is less functional than the old one, partly because people were familiar with the old one, partly because making a UI "simpler" tends to mean making it less flexible.

I'd agree the biggest issue is the forced purchase of the cheapest option. It encourages one credit undercutting which makes it much harder for people playing on the GTN and purchasers will often make the decision to avoid the undercutters for that reason.

[Savyl]

4 minutes ago, Bullyabass said:

Development is grindingly slow on SWTOR so the assumption is that bringing back the old system will be faster than fixing the new one but the reality is that "going back", even if it was possible, is almost certainly more work than going forward.

Plus developers don't really care what players think; they want to write cool new stuff to prep for a better job elsewhere so zero chance it will get rolled back

The new GTN is less functional than the old one, partly because people were familiar with the old one, partly because making a UI "simpler" tends to mean making it less flexible.

I'd agree the biggest issue is the forced purchase of the cheapest option. It encourages one credit undercutting which makes it much harder for people playing on the GTN and purchasers will often make the decision to avoid the undercutters for that reason.

They need to care about players, and what their paying customers think, because at the end of the day it can cost them financially.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Savyl
typo

[Bullyabass]

8 minutes ago, Savyl said:

They need to care about players, and what their paying customers think, because at the end of the day it can cost them financially.

It doesn't really cost the devs anything, SWTOR is just a checkpoint on their Resumes. It's a declining game using achingly old tech. Devs will just want to have something they can use to get a better job elsewhere, hence the "improved" UI styled like a console UI for a PC only game.

Companies won't care too much either. If people stop playing SWTOR they'll just go play something else so they'll get your money through a different route. In fact in an ideal world you'd all be playing one big game to reduce their overheads,

[LD_Little_Dragon]

I have stopped listing on the GTN completely.  So it's basically ruined my game of GTNwars.  Save me a ton of time though.

The game of SWTOR is still good though. Mostly good. New graphics make the game much more demanding so performance is a bit worse.

Would be nice if someday they figured out how to do OPTIONAL graphics updates instead of just bumping every setting up a notch.

[DeannaVoyager]

41 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

I have stopped listing on the GTN completely.  So it's basically ruined my game of GTNwars.  Save me a ton of time though.
 

I went a step further: I leave items I get as GS rewards in the item stash if I can't use them. I noticed it has 1000 slots, which is a lot more than cargo bays. I used to sell the stuff I couldn't use with a few thousand per weapon and a bit more for decos, but I'm not going to waste my time or credits to list them anymore. 

[Spikanor]

2 hours ago, Savyl said:

They need to care about players, and what their paying customers think, because at the end of the day it can cost them financially.

thats something we are asking or selfs also for a long time why there not listing to the players at all thats a question we never get a answer for.

since if you look back that for exemple the 7.0 mess has make sure a lot of players left the game.

each time we report something from the PTS there ignore it and we all know in the end when its going on the life servers the complains only become more and more about the same thing what has been told on the PTS all.

[akdonkey]

The GTN is definitely in need of Tweeking.  I thought I was in the process of buying a stack of resources to find it was only 1 resource. I was sure I had the setup figured out, but I did not. Change always takes time, but like usual, they took it too far.

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, Savyl said:

My sales have dropped significantly

Mine too. I use to sell between 60-200 dyes a day (about 600 dyes a week). Now I can’t sell one dye because only the very cheapest sells.

And everyone is undercutting & driving the prices into the ground. It’s the same 1-3 people controlling the dye market now. As soon as they sell a dye, they relist it so they are always the cheapest.

This is a terrible system & does not promote friendly competition or capitalism. And while this may seem great for buyers, it’s absolutely terrible for sellers & crafters. 

On top of that, I’ve lost thousands of credits because non of my items sold & the list cost is no longer refunded. 

Why on earth would I consider crafting & listing dyes anymore if all I’m going to  do is lose thousands of credits and nothing sells. What a complete and utter waste of my time and credits. 

I have decided to stop crafting & selling dyes until they address this travesty of a system. I’m sure I won’t be the last. This will ultimately be bad for buyers as more & more sellers drop out, there will be less choice & less competition. Eventually prices will go up way more than they ever were before. Broadsword you’ve been warned this is likely to happen. The blame will fully be yours if you ignore player feedback!

Edited December 8, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Savyl]

I also sell dyes so am having the same identical problem.   

[HypSpec]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Mine too. I use to sell between 60-200 dyes a day (about 600 dyes a week). Now I can’t sell one dye because only the very cheapest sells.

And everyone is undercutting & driving the prices into the ground. It’s the same 1-3 people controlling the dye market now. As soon as they sell a dye, they relist it so they are always the cheapest.

This is a terrible system & does not promote friendly competition or capitalism. And while this may seem great for buyers, it’s absolutely terrible for sellers & crafters. 

On top of that, I’ve lost thousands of credits because non of my items sold & the list cost is no longer refunded. 

Why on earth would I consider crafting & listing dyes anymore if all I’m going to  do is lose thousands of credits and nothing sells. What a complete and utter waste of my time and credits. 

I have decided to stop crafting & selling dyes until they address this travesty of a system. I’m sure I won’t be the last. This will ultimately be bad for buyers as more & more sellers drop out, there will be less choice & less competition. Eventually prices will go up way more than they ever were before. Broadsword you’ve been warned this is likely to happen. The blame will fully be yours if you ignore player feedback!

Is this really, again, about having issue with undercutting? or the changes to GTN better enable those listings selling first than before?

I would agree it is favoring the buyer experience (not unlike an app that compares and books the lowest hotel room rate). But why should the changes favor seller 'businesses'? Supply and demand says if more sellers like yourself bow out and number of dyes dries up, sooner or later those sellers will see the opportunity to jump back in and prices likely return to 'normal'. There is no unique value behind crafted listings other than sellers doing the work buyers won't. If someone has done the work and selling low, there is nothing wrong with that even though it is disrupting established seller's expected credit yields for time spent - that is free market right?

Really trying to understand point of view here, not criticize in any way. What am I missing?

[TrixxieTriss]

11 minutes ago, HypSpec said:

this really, again, about having issue with undercutting? or the changes to GTN better enable those listings selling first than before?

It’s not the undercutting as such. Under the old system, my dyes were listed much higher in price. So I was able to side step people constantly undercutting. 

The problem is this system ONLY allows the buyer to buy the cheapest version on the GTN. There is zero options to buy items at a higher price than those undercutting others & driving the price down.

Knowing this, the undercutters are sitting and watching for when they sell. As soon as they sell, they list another dye at the lowest price. You can’t even see if they are listing multiple items & who is undercutting now because they’ve removed names. 

That means the GTN predators are controlling the market with no player oversight. You can’t choose to buy from someone else & you always have to buy theirs. 

Broadsword were warned repeatedly this would happen & drive legitimate crafters & sellers from the GTN. Which means less supply & more control for the GTN predators. You will end up with only a handful of dye sellers soon. And when that happens, they’ll jack up the prices. 

[SoyElSenado]

The new swtor auction house is effectively just a carbon copy of the WoW auction house revamp they did in early 2020. Players initially complained but now everyone likes it and even some people ask for it to be put into clsssic WoW.
 

The one inexplicable difference is the swtor auction house doesn’t let you buy more expensive listings of an item. I don’t understand why this removal of player autonomy is in place. This also coincidentally seems to be the most common complaint from swtor players about the new AH, followed by not seeing the seller/buyer names. 
 

This is WoW’s after the revamp for example. Notice it’s almost the same as swtor except you can click through and buy the higher price if you want. As far as I can tell this is the only thing from WoW’s AH revamp they didn’t copy. I didn’t read the entire ptr thread but did the dev that was in there ever say why…?

regarding buyer and seller names, originally blizzard made it so you couldn’t see who bought your auctions but they put that back a little over a year ago. It is possible with addons to see the names of sellers on the auction house even though it isn’t there by default.

[Samcuu]

6 hours ago, Spikanor said:

the old GTN was easyer to understand and there was also no problems with it.

Was easier to understand because it was the same thing for 11 years lol. The new system has a lot of positives to it and everyone will understand it in a couple weeks at most. But yes I get it change is bad and most ppl do bad when they are forced to learn new things.

[hillerbees]

While there are aspects of the new GTN I like; favourites,  grouping of the same items into one slot and then expanding it out) and I understand that it must be zapping millions of credits from the economy; which is needed lets all be honest, I do think this way of doing so is going to put people completely off listing items.

One thing that is not really being discussed is the fact that when listing items that might not be very popular such as pets for example, you might be listing at a very fair price, maybe the lowest for a full 7 days and its just not something thats on people's minds to buy at that given time.  Everyone listing is losing their credits, possibly even the lowest person.  This will just lead people to not bother.

It would be like you putting your house on the market and getting nobody interested but still getting charged estate agents fees....eventually you are just going to take it off the market until the market picks up...if it picks up.

I would be much happier as a seller suffering a much higher percentage sales tax for successful sales and zero charge on unsuccessful ones that the new/current situation.

[Spikanor]

14 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Was easier to understand because it was the same thing for 11 years lol. The new system has a lot of positives to it and everyone will understand it in a couple weeks at most. But yes I get it change is bad and most ppl do bad when they are forced to learn new things.

there are some things that are good now for the GTN but it still has not the inportent things from the old GTN what is missing more now.

so yea i can understand people like to see the old comming back and not like the new one.

[Samcuu]

 

3 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It’s the same 1-3 people controlling the dye market now. As soon as they sell a dye, they relist it so they are always the cheapest

How do u know this if the name of the party selling isn't listed? 

I dont honestly get how this situation is different than the gtn a week ago. My price on gold alacrity augs was undercut by so many ppl in 2 or 3 days that the price dropped by more than 50m per Aug. The majority of ppl buying items on the gtn just filtered to the cheapest price and bought the item they wanted regardless of whether or not someone was undercutting by one credit. 

The GTN change was made specifically for the buyers benefit. Ya know all those complaints about the economy being out of control? This is a way they can help the economy stabilize. Ppl playing the gtn like they were was an issue.

 

13 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

so yea i can understand people like to see the old comming back and not like the new one.

Broadsword has been better about listening to the uproar on the forums when players inevitably don't like change. They gave us a version of the 6.0 gearing after ppl complained about their 7.0 gearing method, many more examples of that as well. I think they'll adjust it to make everyone happy. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Samcuu

[Spikanor]

6 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Broadsword has been better about listening to the uproar on the forums when players inevitably don't like change. They gave us a version of the 6.0 gearing after ppl complained about their 7.0 gearing method, many more examples of that as well. I think they'll adjust it to make everyone happy.

let me ask you this.

how can broadsword have been in controle from the 6.X era and the 7.0 expension when there move from bioware to broadsword was few month's ago?

[Savyl]

2 hours ago, HypSpec said:

Is this really, again, about having issue with undercutting? or the changes to GTN better enable those listings selling first than before?

I would agree it is favoring the buyer experience (not unlike an app that compares and books the lowest hotel room rate). But why should the changes favor seller 'businesses'? Supply and demand says if more sellers like yourself bow out and number of dyes dries up, sooner or later those sellers will see the opportunity to jump back in and prices likely return to 'normal'. There is no unique value behind crafted listings other than sellers doing the work buyers won't. If someone has done the work and selling low, there is nothing wrong with that even though it is disrupting established seller's expected credit yields for time spent - that is free market right?

Really trying to understand point of view here, not criticize in any way. What am I missing?

The only way to sell now is to play the GTN game of listing one item at a time, standing there after each items sells, constantly undercutting other sellers. It's terrible for a game. This game requires many credits to play.   

[Samcuu]

28 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

let me ask you this.

how can broadsword have been in controle from the 6.X era and the 7.0 expension when there move from bioware to broadsword was few month's ago?

The devs in general, they are all the same ppl regardless of who they were employed by.