Shae Vizla Launch Updates

[DarthNillard]

4 hours ago, Nommaz said:

Its listed as APAC region server, they sent out an email saying new APAC server and they said Welcome home APAC players, not sure how you got its not an APAC server out of that, it 100% is.
The issue is they are also using it as an experiment for server economy and possibly as a fresh start server instead of spending a few more $$ and actually opening one, and that is where they went wrong, in trying to please everyone they have pleased no one, and the APAC region feels jilted as they should be.

But I agree with you, they 100% should have allowed transfers for us from day one, 

 

In which case they have failed as they in your words did not open it as a regional server...
You cant have it both ways they either did open it as a guide to testing other regions or they didn't open it as a regional server, which is it? lol
 

Yes its an APAC server, but I don't think they want to get all the existing players to just move over here.  If that was the actual goal, transfers would have been up from Day 1. Ain't nobody trying to redo EVERYTHING from scratch if they don't have to....

[Engeopathichero]

As someone who initially wanted to keep credit transfers low, I don't know if that is an option anymore. I completely understand wanting to have a fresh start server to monitor economy, and wanting an APAC server. Unfortunately doing both on the same server has caused a lot of problems. At this point I don't even know if they can accurately figure out the economy anymore because the limits are making too many not want to play. Not being able to transfer legacy unlocks and gear means it is a true fresh start, and believe me, as someone who has now done that twice in the past year, it is a lot of work. Not everyone has the time or will to do it, and now the server is paying the price for it.

At this point I would recommend a limit of 500 million credits. That should be enough to jumpstart the economy (which is also dying due to population decline) and give players who don't want to do the grind again enough to purchase what they need, including repair bills. Right now the entire server is suffering due to the restrictions and lack of communication. This server needs transfers sooner rather than later, otherwise they are going to lose players.

At this point, a decent chunk of credits to help not have to run dailies and heroics every free moment is needed. I have been running every weekly besides Voss, Correlia, Makeb, and Iokath, on 2 characters twice a week to try and fund repairs and unlocks. I do that over the course of the week. I am struggling. I try to supplement by selling augments and aug kits. Barely any sales, and I'm pretty much spending everything I make immediately funding new crafters and repairs. If I, as someone who is disabled and spends the majority of the day on the game, is struggling as much as I am after a month of hardcore grinding, I can only imagine what those who do work are dealing with.

This doesn't even get into the other issues no transfers are causing. Barely any ops are run outside of raid groups. Those that are generally have new players who have never even seen EV before. Not just one or two either, most of the group. I can't even do KP HM anymore due to several bad experiences with it (one was 500k repairs in a guild run). PvP is barely getting pops from what I understand. No one can run MM Flashpoints due to no one queuing for them. Even VM Flashpoints have trouble popping right now. I also know I'm not the only one who has had issues. Experienced players are needed to run this content, and most aren't because not only do they have to start fresh, but it is a struggle to afford it once they even get to the point they can raid. Not to mention getting gear again, implant destiny achievements, and alts, that all cost credits. Then the groups they get are so much worse than their original server they stop wanting to run them, I know I have.

There are more issues too but I will stop there. Bottom line, transfers are needed soon, and a decent chunk of credits with it. Otherwise people are going to stop playing this server.

[Engeopathichero]

2 minutes ago, DarthNillard said:

Ain't nobody trying to redo EVERYTHING from scratch if they don't have to....

I've now done this twice, once as an experiment to see how long it would take a "fresh" player to make 1 billion and now again for SV, also don't plan on transferring characters personally cause I'm a masochist. Like yes I'm a nobody but not the way you describe lol. Technically I didn't "need" to do either, honestly would have probably fresh start SV even if transfers were a thing. But again, I'm weird.

[Nommaz]

2 hours ago, DarthNillard said:

es its an APAC server, but I don't think they want to get all the existing players to just move over here.  If that was the actual goal, transfers would have been up from Day 1. Ain't nobody trying to redo EVERYTHING from scratch if they don't have to....

Of course they do, referring to APAC players, they obviously want us to get the best experience, and if not us then who? lol 
 

[Nommaz]

2 hours ago, Engeopathichero said:

Right now the entire server is suffering due to the restrictions and lack of communication.

The communication has been terrible to be honest, its obviously a hot topic with the guilds I am in constantly talking about it since the last post in January.
All of it was avoidable.
 

2 hours ago, Engeopathichero said:

As someone who initially wanted to keep credit transfers low, I don't know if that is an option anymore.

I always supported a credit restriction, and if it was day one it would have made a whole lot more sense than it does now, but I'd even welcome that if they'd up and let us move in.

 

2 hours ago, Engeopathichero said:

At this point I would recommend a limit of 500 million credits

I hate putting amounts up, there is always someone going to be disappointed and this is only a small section of the player base (forums), having said that, that looks fair to me.

 

2 hours ago, Engeopathichero said:

This server needs transfers sooner rather than later, otherwise they are going to lose players.

Yup for sure, OR a date when we can, kinda like some communication lol.

 

2 hours ago, Engeopathichero said:

Barely any sales, and I'm pretty much spending everything I make immediately funding new crafters and repairs.

And this is why there is barely any sales, I made over 5 or 6 million doing alts, and spent it all on getting to 700 just in the last few days was 2 mill alone, which has nearly cleaned me out. I mentioned the other day credits are easy to come by, and they are, but they are far too easy to go as well, some of the costs as you get up in ranks and levels are just insane, I havent even got to gearing yet hahaha.
 

 

[MuskyBoy]

In preventing economy inflation BS have just killed the server, no one is playing, groups aren't forming, PVP is dead and all the players who came back because of the of the APAC servers/low ping have long gone. GG BS your inability to make a decision has meant your experiment has failed.  If you were going to make "SWTOR classic" you needed to make the economy in terms of credit sinks the same as at launch.

[FrontLineFodder]

4 minutes ago, MuskyBoy said:

In preventing economy inflation BS have just killed the server, no one is playing, groups aren't forming, PVP is dead and all the players who came back because of the of the APAC servers/low ping have long gone. GG BS your inability to make a decision has meant your experiment has failed.  If you were going to make "SWTOR classic" you needed to make the economy in terms of credit sinks the same as at launch.

There are those arguing for credit restrictions, why are they not filling pvp groups and flashpoints ?

they are the majority aren’t they ?

[DarthNillard]

14 hours ago, Nommaz said:

In which case they have failed as they in your words did not open it as a regional server...
You cant have it both ways they either did open it as a guide to testing other regions or they didn't open it as a regional server, which is it? lol
 

Actually they can and DID have it both ways by not allowing transfers out the gate.

At launch through present, it's a new server test case for what I suggested: gauging the viability of finding new players or getting returning players from the APAC region.

Whenever they do allow transfers, then it will effectively become a regional server as all existing APAC players on other servers can transfer to Shae if they are so inclined.

[xordevoreaux]

Any word yet what level we need to get our mules to transfer?

[Nommaz]

8 hours ago, DarthNillard said:

At launch through present, it's a new server test case for what I suggested: gauging the viability of finding new players or getting returning players from the APAC region.

Whenever they do allow transfers, then it will effectively become a regional server as all existing APAC players on other servers can transfer to Shae if they are so inclined.

And therein lies the problem, if it truly is testing the ability to getting returning players from a region its done wrong. Its not rocket science. 
As they were told before it even opened.

 

7 hours ago, xordevoreaux said:

Any word yet what level we need to get our mules to transfer?

Not since the 20th, been radio silence

[FrontLineFodder]

Does anyone remember reading this ?

On 12/22/2023 at 4:30 AM, KeithKanneg said:

I want us to have a respectful conversation and/or friendly discourse about what's best for our players in the APAC region, and of course, for our game. Our ultimate goal is to have a healthy server that also provides the best home for our APAC players. 

 

I don't know about you, but I feel like it is well past time for BroadSword to step up and play their part in this conversation. I certainly do not feel like they are being respectful to us, the players (All players, not just APAC) by their continued silence.

They created this mess two weeks ago by dropping a nuclear bombshell early hours on a Saturday morning (for the target region).

TWO WEEKS of silence since then, activity on the server has reportedly dropped to near nothing as players move back to their previous servers.

@KeithKanneg @JackieKo

I don't care what you say to contribute to this, say something.

• answer questions on when transfers can start
• double down on transfer restrictions
• reverse the plan and announce transfers will work like existing servers
• provide a number of how many characters can be transferred
• go Ebenezer Scrooge and say you are doubling the cost of transfers

say anything.

[SoraRaida]

Edit: After thinking for a long while on this topic, there shouldn't even be a discussion on the limitation of character transfers. The number of replies in this post (I read them all) already indicated to me that satisfying both APAC players and "new server" players is impossible.

This server is advertised as an APAC server, and the server is labelled for APAC players. I was legit surprised when I read Keith's reply that they are monitoring the economy of this new server, and they are taking that into account for character transfers. That's the first time I've heard of that. They are using a newly created server, which is the only server for APAC players by the way, for this experiment. Why don't they just create a new server for that instead of using the ONLY server for APAC players? 

It's a miracle APAC players still log in to this game with this type of service, or maybe they are already gone.

Just open transfers with no limit already. It's just so depressing to see a potential home for the APAC players being so deserted and empty just because those at Broadsword wanted this server to be a new server for "economy". The damage is done.

Edited February 4 by SoraRaida

[Keegus]

On 2/2/2024 at 2:03 AM, FrontLineFodder said:

There are those arguing for credit restrictions, why are they not filling pvp groups and flashpoints ?

they are the majority aren’t they ?

Like many others, they've stopped logging into Shae since the announcement.  While the server was small, people WERE doing activities...until the transfer announcement.  Now everyone seems to have migrated back to their original servers to see what happens, I know I have.

At this point, I actually think they should just open up the transfers without restrictions.  As cynical as it sounds I'd like to see what happens.  I have a feeling there aren't enough APAC to justify their own server and the costs involved, which is why Broadsword also made comments about monitoring the economy and giving people the hope of a fresh start server as well, to attract players from other regions to populate it.  It'd be interesting to see that assumption proven right or wrong.

[TrixxieTriss]

On 2/3/2024 at 3:47 PM, FrontLineFodder said:

TWO WEEKS of silence since then, activity on the server has reportedly dropped to near nothing as players move back to their previous servers.

@KeithKanneg @JackieKo

I don't care what you say to contribute to this, say something.

• answer questions on when transfers can start
• double down on transfer restrictions
• reverse the plan and announce transfers will work like existing servers
• provide a number of how many characters can be transferred
• go Ebenezer Scrooge and say you are doubling the cost of transfers

say anything.

Feels like they don’t want to say anything until the Stream. Which is a shame because the silence is driving more people away & many are unsubbing at the same time. Honestly, the only reason I haven’t unsubbed myself is their 90 days sub time to get free transfers. But I’m now wondering if theyll even go ahead with transfers now because they’ve effectively killed the server with their own inaction & delayed communication. All they need to do here is say a date & give some more details to allow people to plan & get ready. 

[Nommaz]

2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But I’m now wondering if theyll even go ahead with transfers now because they’ve effectively killed the server with their own inaction & delayed communication. All they need to do here is say a date & give some more details to allow people to plan & get ready. 

Sadly Gaming company's are historically bad at communication, and it take them years to realise that is not the way forward.
Even WoW you are very secretive have realised they need to be much better at communication, FFXIV really should be the example that gaming company's look to for this.
I think its because they are too afraid of making commitments they may have to break personally, but either way the whole release has been pretty poor, but hey its their money I guess.

[TrixxieTriss]

14 hours ago, SoraRaida said:

It's a miracle APAC players still log in to this game with this type of service, or maybe they are already gone.

My family, friends & guild have all gone back to the US servers to try & finish GS & PvP seasons while there’s still time because group content isn’t popping on SV. 

If BS had just opened transfers before Xmas, NONE of that would have been needed & we wouldn’t have the issues now 🤦‍♀️. 

We are all busy IRL too & don’t have time to play on both servers. So our priority has been to focus getting seasons done. We also don’t have the inclination to grind all classes again. 

Honestly, when they opened the server & said no transfers yet, my alarm bells instantly went off. But I still expected they’d open transfers before Xmas. Otherwise I wouldn’t have spent time trying to do GS & PvP seasons on SV. I would have casually finished them on the US servers & waited for transfers. Which is what I think a lot of the full time APAC players have chosen to do. 

Let’s face it, SV is only going to work now if BS promote it to the regions gamers who don’t currently play swtor. Because they’ve badly burnt the returning players & existing players with this fumbled launch. Making us all feel like third class citizens in our own region just to accommodate people in the EU & US regions wanting a fresh start experience. Who have all left now that they’ve had their 9-10 weeks of fun. There is a lot of really bad feelings about how they’ve handled this launch. Feels like BS have really isolated the APAC community & are ready to eject us from the game again. 

[Char_Ell]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Making us all feel like third class citizens in our own region just to accommodate people in the EU & US regions wanting a fresh start experience.

Again with this.  Who was asking for a fresh start experience?  Nobody I know of.  Eric Musco was the first to mention the possibility of a fresh start server last May.  I'm not sure what the deal is with APAC players such as yourself and others blaming EU & US players for "wanting" a fresh start experience.  I've seen no evidence fresh start server was a requested thing.  As best I can determine the fresh start server idea originated with the devs, not the players.  The devs were the ones that decided to roll out fresh experience, not the EU & US players.  I get APAC players are not happy with the way Shae Vizla was rolled out but let's try not to scapegoat other players for dev team decisions.

[Nommaz]

24 minutes ago, Char_Ell said:

I get APAC players are not happy with the way Shae Vizla was rolled out but let's try not to scapegoat other players for dev team decision

TBF It wouldn't be an issue if they didn't come in here and post "requests" to limit this and that to keep that feeling. 
Rather than respect our region.
We don't have an issue with the players playing there. The more the merrier.

[DWho]

1 hour ago, Nommaz said:

TBF It wouldn't be an issue if they didn't come in here and post "requests" to limit this and that to keep that feeling. 
Rather than respect our region.

It wasn't just EU and US players. I've seen plenty of comments by APAC players asking to limit credits to preserve the economy on the server (a fresh start economy is what was being suggested by most not a no transfers "fresh start"). Limits aren't bad (and even you agreed that some were needed). It's only the old timers (the super rich in particular) that don't want any kind of restriction (quite a few of them are only concerned with how they can profit and not about the experience new players in the region get - and attracting new APAC players should be the primary focus). A limit on the number of free transfers would frankly be enough since you can only bring about 4 billion per character (and a fairly high level limit to discourage the use of credit mules).

Edited February 5 by DWho

[Duck_Cider]

3 hours ago, DWho said:

It wasn't just EU and US players. I've seen plenty of comments by APAC players asking to limit credits to preserve the economy on the server (a fresh start economy is what was being suggested by most not a no transfers "fresh start").

Put me in that camp too - as I've said before, restricted day 1 transfers would have been fine with me. I'm not sure how a "fresh start" server based on levelling new low-legacy characters, and being around similar characters, would be sustainable. Server wipes? A new server every so often, with the "old fresh start" one still running? On the other hand, if "fresh start" refers to a server with an economy like the game had in the past, before a decade of hyper-inflation and occasional exploits, I think that's possible. "Low inflation" would be a better descriptor for that, though. If it turns out that genuine new players have a better (cough) fresh start experience on a low-inflation server, so much the better. Hopefully the devs are getting some data on that point.

 

16 hours ago, Keegus said:

I have a feeling there aren't enough APAC to justify their own server and the costs involved, which is why Broadsword also made comments about monitoring the economy and giving people the hope of a fresh start server as well, to attract players from other regions to populate it.  It'd be interesting to see that assumption proven right or wrong.

Possible. If we're going to assumption mode though, I can think of a few myself. I'll be just as interested to see them proved right or wrong:

- Amazon cloud funding costs are more flexible, per user, than old server costs, making a new regional server viable in the first place. Reaching new players was a stated benefit of moving to the cloud.
- The two key features of SV are low APAC ping (to attract current / lapsed / new APAC players) and low inflation (to study the economy for game-wide improvements, attract players who want to play on a low-inflation server, and attract new players in general.). Allowing bulk credit transfers wrecks the second point.
- The devs stuck to the "server open 90 days before transfers" rule to assess population before committing. They assessed it, and felt there were enough current players, plus potential future ones, to justify SV. If not, it'd be closing, and we'd be talking about transfers off instead. (Again, I think restricted day 1 transfers should have been allowed, just trying to assume / guess why they weren't.)
- There's less activity since galactic + PvP seasons ended, and since people know transfers are happening: a dev post back in December left that in doubt. Less incentive to grind gear: just wait, then bring your stuff.
- Once transfers are allowed, with legacy, cheevos, gear, and everything but bulk credit piles ("bring extra wealth as items"), a lot of people will take up that offer.
- Something will happen by mid February: that'd be around 90 days from server opening, and 3 weeks from season 5's end date. The devs will invent extra APAC-specific criteria for free/discounted transfers, time transfers to start with season 6, and have a big media / email blitz once transfers and s6 are up and running. (Um, this one might have veered from assumption to hope. I'll just echo this comment:)

7 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

All they need to do here is say a date & give some more details to allow people to plan & get ready. 

The sooner the better, please. If they have some details like transfer date and min char level, great. If some things are undecided, or they'd prefer to save it all for the livestream, even a comment like "We'll publish details about _ by _ date" would be welcome. Subject to change, and all the usual disclaimers.

Edited February 5 by Duck_Cider

[Nommaz]

3 hours ago, DWho said:

It wasn't just EU and US players.

I didnt say it was, I was just indicating why those particular players are mentioned.

3 hours ago, DWho said:

It's only the old timers (the super rich in particular) that don't want any kind of restriction (quite a few of them are only concerned with how they can profit and not about the experience new players in the region get - and attracting new APAC players should be the primary focus)

Actually I am a Beta player been here on and off since release through all the transfers and bad decisions etc. And I am happy with SOME credit restrictions, the rest though, no.

Having said that the actual credit sinks in game now hurt new players far worse than anything the players have done.
You are basically broke for a long time because of the extreme costs and lack of funds.

Second to that is inflation only effects the GTN, so realistically the only additional costs are those for gear sets, and then at end game (not new players) there is no way anyone can convince me a new player needs to go to the GTN to progress through the story and even do professions, I just did 8 characters to 50-70 and did not go to the GTN for anything during that time, However the lack of funds to fill out legacy as you do it, the costs for some planets quick travel and repairs certainly are noticeable and really should be the only consideration for new players.
Nothing from the GTN should even be considered a "new player" cost.

But if you and others can tell me how inflation effects the rest of the game please feel free, obviously BS did not consider the high repair bill s etc a p[art of the inflation issue, for or against.

If you are referring to getting geared for end game, there is actually a path that gets you there, you do not NEED everything gold right at the start, its a want, the same as gear sets. 
And to be fair you are at 324 out of the gate, which is fine for SM and the start raids etc.

[Nommaz]

1 hour ago, Duck_Cider said:

Something will happen by mid February: that'd be around 90 days from server opening, and 3 weeks from season 5's end date. The devs will invent extra APAC-specific criteria for free/discounted transfers, time transfers to start with season 6, and have a big media / email blitz once transfers and s6 are up and running.

If this was done on launch the server would be vastly different to what it is now... 
 

[DWho]

3 hours ago, Nommaz said:

But if you and others can tell me how inflation effects the rest of the game please feel free, obviously BS did not consider the high repair bill s etc a p[art of the inflation issue, for or against.

The price of everything is affected by too many credits in the economy. While you can gain just about anything in the game yourself, how many raiders want to spend their time to level up crafting skills and gathering mats instead of buying a medpack or adrenal off the GTN to support their raiding. As far as repair bills go, that is part of the economy too. In a lower inflation economy credits are "earned" rather than bought requiring you to potentially have to play the parts of the game you don't want to in order to afford the parts you do. While this isn't an issue for "established" players, imagine the high hurdle of entering into raiding on a server with an out of control economy.

[FrontLineFodder]

54 minutes ago, DWho said:

The price of everything is affected by too many credits in the economy. While you can gain just about anything in the game yourself, how many raiders want to spend their time to level up crafting skills and gathering mats instead of buying a medpack or adrenal off the GTN to support their raiding. As far as repair bills go, that is part of the economy too. In a lower inflation economy credits are "earned" rather than bought requiring you to potentially have to play the parts of the game you don't want to in order to afford the parts you do. While this isn't an issue for "established" players, imagine the high hurdle of entering into raiding on a server with an out of control economy.

what is the cost of levelling up your crafting, your companions, gathering materials.

There is NOTHING stopping a player from selling crafted items at a low price. you know what, they do not want to.

Of course crafters want a high return for their effort, so they don't need to go grinding to do what they actually enjoy in the game.

The only reason prices are lower on Shae Vizla is because there is no masses of credits, not a large number of players with a dozen level 80 characters capable of grinding out tens of millions of credits a day. but prices are rising even with out transfers, credit limits or not.

 

Now, when you are talking about repair bills, how about enabling damage for PvP games, making the PvP players pay for the repair bills, that is part of the game is it not ? let me know what those players will think of having to pay to repair their gear, the majority of them die a hell of a lot more often then raiders.

[Nommaz]

9 hours ago, DWho said:

The price of everything is affected by too many credits in the economy. While you can gain just about anything in the game yourself, how many raiders want to spend their time to level up crafting skills and gathering mats instead of buying a medpack or adrenal off the GTN to support their raiding. As far as repair bills go, that is part of the economy too. In a lower inflation economy credits are "earned" rather than bought requiring you to potentially have to play the parts of the game you don't want to in order to afford the parts you do. While this isn't an issue for "established" players, imagine the high hurdle of entering into raiding on a server with an out of control economy.

You did not answer my question lol

Once a person is raid ready they are not new, the prices only effect the GTN because the repair bills are the same for both economy's and its damaging here with no credits.

People getting ready to raid have everything they need just through levelling to START raiding, they do not need gold everything off the bat, 324's you ear while playing are more than enough to start with. in fact unless they are doing NM they don't need them at all, 
Seems to me the only people really effected by it are the people suffering through the high costs that were copied over from the high inflation realms and are hindering the game play, not helping it.
And you contradicted yourself by saying players are made to do parts of the game in order to afford the rest in a low economy server. You are arguing the same argument for both sides of the coin.
Inflation only effects the GTN prices, and players that want to shortcut for whatever reason. 
Everyone is on the same footing as a new person regardless of server, they can choose to participate or buy, its only an issue if they want to buy and not do any form of credit creation. 

As I said numerous times I am not opposed to having a credit limit, but I have still yet to see a good explanation for it rather than the tired "but I cant afford things as a new person"
They cant in this economy anyway as it removes credits from you at too high a rate, this problem is twofold, and they need to address both, or just allow the server to do its thing.
Of course if they are buying cartel item to sell they are actually a part of the problem, with prices creeping up even now.
In a few months time this server is going to look the same as all the others because of player greed, not because of anything else.