Is it Time for a Big New Story Drop?

[JakRoanin]

I'm not saying get rid of it just add more in between times If every scene in the movies were lightsaber duels and dogfight nobody would love them.

Edited November 16, 2023 by JakRoanin

[OlBuzzard]

22 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Also the Real World is blowing up more than ever, it'd be nice to have a break (not long) from the Wars part of Star Wars.

Ummm ..  I kind of get where you are coming from.  

Hmmm ...  Too carried away some won't care for it.  BUT ... (maybe) things like a few choice strongholds:
** Space Station (Not a flat in a major hub such as we already have for the Republic and Empire sides)
** Skii chalet 
** Other resort area (maybe with a place to relax and do some fishing)  😇
** Repeatable interactions with a favorite companion on the beach

The idea is that these might be a welcomed momentary break from the daily grind/business of star WARS.  (If you catch my drift).

Not at all a bad idea.  Just needs a bit of fine tuning.

 

[recalcitrantIre]

30 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

to have a break (not long) from the Wars part of Star Wars.

the main part of 7.3 was assisting with the post-war recovery and rebuilding on Voss, that absolutely qualifies as a break from the war

one of the dailies is even doing basic service in a cantina

[TrixxieTriss]

Looks like we got our APAC server. But no transfers at this point. So we’ll need to do all our class quests again to get the buffs & collect all the datacrons & strongholds & crafting etc

I can live without most of my credits on a new server. But being without all my current legacy unlocks is going to be less enjoyable.

Here’s hoping they allow transfers by 7.4

[JakRoanin]

37 minutes ago, recalcitrantIre said:

the main part of 7.3 was assisting with the post-war recovery and rebuilding on Voss, that absolutely qualifies as a break from the war

one of the dailies is even doing basic service in a cantina

Hang on I'm just saying I want more and like the planetary quests on Coruscant with the Gree and during the feast of prosperity. 

[SoyElSenado]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:56 PM, Jazulfi said:

OK "doesn't really have a cash shop" was doing some heaving lifting here. Point is they dont shove it people's faces, generally speaking players don't like it and don't use it, or only use it when they have enough in game gold to buy a token for their wallet. It isn't a central tentpole feature to the game. Most players can't stand it.

They also now have a Trader's Outpost (or whatever) which behaves a little like Galactic Seasons in SWTOR. You are gifted some currency to spend there, but you can double that money by completing tasks and events around the world. Each month there's a selection of cosmetic items, pets and mounts to buy. It seems to be working ok so far. People are a bit irritated that some of the currency was added to the Epic bundle of the new xpac, which also had mounts pets toys and some transmog, but you can't simply buy the currency outright from the shop.

It's nothing like as predatory as say ESO or SWTOR, but because WoW held out as Sub only for ages, players are understandably annoyed at the mission creep. But it isn't a 'cash shop' in the same vein as other mmos. There isn't much to buy either.

Bro you could not be more off base. I have ungodly hours played in WoW since 2007 and I can assure you that WoW is FAR more predatory than this game and is right up there with gacha games for being predatory. You know why? WoW charges a mandatory subscription fee, AND has a robust cash store, AND has a battle pass now, AND on top of all that, literally allows you to buy ingame currency from the shop... do you know that is what the WoW token is? Other games are f2p with a cash shop, or just have a sub and no store, etc. but WoW mixes all of that monetization + microtransaction together. 

WoW also is far more p2w than SWTOR and p2w = inherently more predatory as players are more encouraged to buy tokens for boosts/carries for gear etc.

Edited November 16, 2023 by SoyElSenado

[BulbulusTheGreat]

2 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

I'm not saying get rid of it just add more in between times If every scene in the movies were lightsaber duels and dogfight nobody would love them.

true, im looking forward for Date Night stuff that'll apparently be added, i wish we had more events like feast of prosperity or summer casino one too, in fact i don't think casino one should be summer exclusive.

Edited November 16, 2023 by BulbulusTheGreat

[Jazulfi]

12 minutes ago, SoyElSenado said:

Bro you could not be more off base. I have ungodly hours played in WoW since 2007 and I can assure you that WoW is FAR more predatory than this game and is right up there with gacha games for being predatory. You know why? WoW charges a mandatory subscription fee, AND has a robust cash store, AND has a battle pass now, AND on top of all that, literally allows you to buy ingame currency from the shop... do you know that is what the WoW token is? Other games are f2p with a cash shop, or just have a sub and no store, etc. but WoW mixes all of that monetization + microtransaction together. 

'Bro' I've been playing WoW since it began. I've also played many many other mmos and I assure you WoWs sub doesn't make it more predatory. The opposite. The 'battle pass' Trader's Outpost currency is given to you with a top up entirely earned in game. You can take it or leave it, it's just cosmetic stuff.

What in game currency does it allow you to buy? You can't buy Trader's Tender from the Blizz Store. If you are talking about the WoW token, well, perhaps mistakes were made, but in the EU at least I can't remember the last time I saw a gold seller advertising on Gen or Trade. The WoW Token allows people to literally pay for their sub by simply playing the game, basically making it f2p for people who play the game a lot, if they so choose.

You might not like WoW, and who knows what the Trader's Outpost will do in the future, but to say it's *more* predatory than other big MMOs? What loot boxes does it have? What obfuscating currency exchange does it have? What pay to win does it have? What 'microtransactions' are you talking about?

Just because you want f2p doesn't make it a good model or healthy for an mmo. You're in the forum of a game which suffered from just that.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Jazulfi

[SoyElSenado]

8 minutes ago, Jazulfi said:

'Bro' I've been playing WoW since it began. I've also played many many other mmos and I assure you WoWs sub doesn't make it more predatory. The opposite. The 'battle pass' Trader's Outpost currency is given to you with a top up entirely earned in game. You can take it or leave it, it's just cosmetic stuff.

What in game currency does it allow you to buy? You can't buy Trader's Tender from the Blizz Store. If you are talking about the WoW token, well, perhaps mistakes were made, but in the EU at least I can't remember the last time I saw a gold seller advertising on Gen or Trade. The WoW Token allows people to literally pay for their sub by simply playing the game, basically making it f2p for people who play the game a lot, if they so choose.

You might not like WoW, and who knows what the Trader's Outpost will do in the future, but to say it's *more* predatory than other big MMOs? What loot boxes does it have? What obfuscating currency exchange does it have? What pay to win does it have?

Just because you want f2p doesn't make it a good model or healthy for an mmo. You're in a forum of a game which suffered from just that.

No, you didn't read my post carefully. The sub is not what makes WoW predatory. What makes it predatory is the fact that there is a sub AND a cash shop AND microtransactions for in game currency. Other games on the market have one or the other. WoW does both mandatory subscription and has microtransactions. Therefore, it's more predatory.

Blizzard (I think Ion himself) originally said trader's tender would only be obtainable through in game activities and not for real money purchase. 6 months later it's obtainable through the extra real money preorder option. Do you seriously think TT won't just be a direct purchase like the WoW token in another 6 months?

What currency can you buy from the ingame store in WoW? How about GOLD?  Are you sure you play WoW, it genuinely seems like you are confusing it with another game if you play so many MMOs. You can literally buy up to 20x WoW tokens per week from the in game store and then sell them for gold on the AH. This is predatory and this is p2w; players do that for boosts/carries/gear. That's all on top of the subscription fee you pay and the cost for individual xpacs. It's disgusting. 

Where are you jumping to all these conclusions from that I "want f2p"? I never said anything resembling that in my post. I actually agree with you that a purely subscription based model with no cash shop and where you have to pay for the expansions would be ideal. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by SoyElSenado

[Jazulfi]

Just now, SoyElSenado said:

 AND microtransactions for in game currency. Other games on the market have one or the other. WoW does both mandatory subscription and has microtransactions.

Where are you jumping to all these conclusions from that I "want f2p"? I never said anything resembling that in my post. I actually agree with you that a purely subscription based model with no cash shop and where you have to pay for the expansions would be ideal. 

What microtransactions does it have? The Blizz shop sells a fairly boring small selection of mounts, pets and a few bits of transmog. Again, all of these things can be bought if you top up your wallet with a WoW token. Most people don't bother with shop items anyway, there are too many mounts, pets, transmog items you can earn in the game.

Listen, I don't have an objection to your type of criticism, lots of game DO have these things, but to say they exist in WoW is just rubbish.

I mean, WoW has many many problems to complain about, but predatory in-game selling behaviour isn't one of them.

Yet.

[SoyElSenado]

2 minutes ago, Jazulfi said:

What microtransactions does it have? The Blizz shop sells a fairly boring small selection of mounts, pets and a few bits of transmog. Again, all of these things can be bought if you top up your wallet with a WoW token. Most people don't bother with shop items anyway, there are too many mounts, pets, transmog items you can earn in the game.

Listen, I don't have an objection to your type of criticism, lots of game DO have these things, but to say they exist in WoW is just rubbish.

I mean, WoW has many many problems to complain about, but predatory in-game selling behaviour isn't one of them.

Yet.

The WoW token... that is the #1 microtransaction of all. Maybe you didn't catch the edit to my post before you replied where I explained so I'll restate: 

 

[Jazulfi]

Just now, SoyElSenado said:

The WoW token... that is the #1 microtransaction of all. Maybe you didn't catch the edit to my post before you replied where I explained so I'll restate: 

 

The WoW token isn't a microtransaction. Ignoring now.

[SoyElSenado]

27 minutes ago, Jazulfi said:

The WoW token isn't a microtransaction. Ignoring now.

You seem to be clueless as to how the WoW token works, as to what a microtransaction is, or both. The WoW token fits squarely into the definition of a microtransaction; ActivisionBlizzard even categorizes it as such to their shareholders (it does not fall under subscription revenue but rather under microtransactions). 

I've actually never heard someone argue that the WoW token is not a microtransaction, this is mind-boggling to me. Even in this context where players were fighting about whether WoW is p2w due to the token, both sides worked off of the fact that the token is a microtransaction. I mean, the article is literally titled "In a lengthy topic on the World of Warcraft subreddit, players are discussing the effect the WoW Token microtransaction." 

Here is the definition of microtransaction: "Microtransactions, sometimes abbreviated as mtx, are a business model where users can purchase virtual goods with micropayments within a game."

You buy a WoW token with $20 of real money from the store. You then sell said token on the AH and you get a pre-programmed, slightly fluctuating amount of in game gold set by Blizzard in return for it. That is a microtransaction - you are exchanging real money for virtual goods within a game. The players you spoke of who buy the WoW token with gold to pay for their subscription buy them from players who paid real money for WoW tokens from the cash shop and listed them on the AH. 

Also to your point that nobody really buys items from the cash shop in WoW:

https://www.laprogressive.com/sponsored/world-of-warcraft 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-15-horse-microtransaction-in-wow-made-more-money-than-starcraft-ii.784979/

https://twitter.com/charlieINTEL/status/1622704930216722434

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by SoyElSenado

[Stradlin]

3 hours ago, SoyElSenado said:

No, you didn't read my post carefully. The sub is not what makes WoW predatory. What makes it predatory is the fact that there is a sub AND a cash shop AND microtransactions for in game currency. Other games on the market have one or the other. WoW does both mandatory subscription and has microtransactions. Therefore, it's more predatory.

Blizzard (I think Ion himself) originally said trader's tender would only be obtainable through in game activities and not for real money purchase. 6 months later it's obtainable through the extra real money preorder option. Do you seriously think TT won't just be a direct purchase like the WoW token in another 6 months?

What currency can you buy from the ingame store in WoW? How about GOLD?  Are you sure you play WoW, it genuinely seems like you are confusing it with another game if you play so many MMOs. You can literally buy up to 20x WoW tokens per week from the in game store and then sell them for gold on the AH. This is predatory and this is p2w

There are cash shops and there  are Cash Shops. One WoW features is def on the backseat when compared to swtor. They've always been very careful with itemization,cool looking gear is almost always earned in game, while almost all  of cosmetic gear they ever release in ToR is from the cash shop. Huge difference. 

Their cash shop makes huge amount of money since game is like 10 times more popular than swtor or most other  mmos. Shop is still very lowkey and of modest supply compared to, say ,one that ToR has.

 

Wow token is def essentially selling gold for rl  money,just like all of cartel market can be selling credits for rl money. Flipside though? Makes game free of sub costs for vets who know how to make money.  I still have like half a years worth of wow tokens  from wayback when, def didnt pay Euros for any of them.

 

 

All in all,big picture-wise it is def unfair to call wow predatory. They"ve flirted with f2p and farmville type mechanics for years. Just that it is almost always done with in game currencies. Ones you earn exclusively by playing. Spending irl cash wont buy you fast lanes.

 

Considering how literally 100% of people present in, say, this thread are active swtor subs, I'm not sure how loudly one wants to celebrate the optional nature of TOR's sub.

 

I'm sure everybody here would be so happy to throw money at paid SWTOR expoansions, if it meant actual expansions.KOTFE and KOTET are only expansions that feel like EA  threw expansion's worth of production at the game. Was all they invested well spend is def another discussion, but they did spend it. Every other TOR expansion released over last 11 years would essentially pass as content patches of small to moderate scale in wow or lotro or teso or...

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Stradlin

[SoyElSenado]

29 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

There are cash shops and there  are Cash Shops. One WoW features is def on the backseat when compared to swtor. They've always been very careful with itemization,cool looking gear is almost always earned in game, while almost all they ever release in ToR is from cash shop. Huge difference. 

 

 

Wow token is def essentially selling gold for rl  money,just like all of cartel market can be selling credits for rl money. Flipside though? Makes game free of sub costs or vets who know how to make.money.  I still have like half a years worth from wayback when.

 

 

All in all,big picture-wise it is def unfair to call wow predatory. They"ve flirted with f2p and farmville type mechanics for years. Just that it is almost always done with in game currencies. Ones you earn exclusively by paying. Spending irl cash wont buy you fast lanes.

WoW:

1. Subscription mandatory

2. Cash shop to buy cosmetics 

3. cash shop to buy in game currency 

 

Swtor:

1. Cash shop to buy cosmetics 

 

Wow is monetized in far more ways than swtor is. I don’t think people appreciate the fact that swtor is f2p and wow isn’t. Wow requires a sub fee to play and it also has a cash shop and has a robust system to buy in game currency for real money directly. Also, I was only calling WoW predatory insofar as a response to someone calling swtor predatory. I don’t think either game is particularly predatory compared with gacha games and most mobile games in general.
Regardless I’m glad you at least recognize that the wow token is a microtransaction and that it involves the exchange of real money for in game goods lol. 
 

The only kind of scummy/predatory thing in swtor is the hypercrate, which still doesn’t even touch gacha games because it has guaranteed # of gold silver etc items. Either way I’m not a fan of gambling type things in video games so I’m not a fan of the hypercrate. 

I do totally concede that all the coolest gear from swtor is on the cm and the coolest wow gear is in game, but I think this is a consequence of f2p vs mandatory subscription game. I think this is why spending irl money in WoW 100% buys you “fast lanes”. Buying the token = gold which = the key to every fast lane.  Players use this gold they got from spending real money on wow token (microtransaction) to buy boosts/carries so they can get all that coolest gear/titles/etc. whether that’s AOTC, gladiator, keystone master, etc. all of this is perfectly allowed within Blizzard TOS and is very common.

Edited November 16, 2023 by SoyElSenado

[Lord_Janosch]

2 hours ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

true, im looking forward for Date Night stuff that'll apparently be added

Me also looking forward to it. Hopefully it'll be in 7.4, but haven't heard about it yet

[Stradlin]

 

WoW sub isn't mandattory, you can play an  extremely restricted version of the game for free  to your hearts content. Just like you can try to cope in TOR with 1 million credits cap and all of the other restrictions.  (Which def is much more fair than wow's glorified trial for sure. ) Plus as previously  explained, you have the option to pay your sub for in game cash in wow.

22 minutes ago, SoyElSenado said:

 

Wow is monetized in far more ways than swtor is.

 

It really isn't in practice  due to reasons explained to you by couple of different people. Maybe it is fair to say wow is monetized in more ways, but in practice it most certainly is much less predatory than TOR or TESO. 

Won't keep at this beyond  this post  either.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Stradlin

[Lord_Malganus]

5 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Looks like we got our APAC server. But no transfers at this point. So we’ll need to do all our class quests again to get the buffs & collect all the datacrons & strongholds & crafting etc

I can live without most of my credits on a new server. But being without all my current legacy unlocks is going to be less enjoyable.

Here’s hoping they allow transfers by 7.4

I was glad to see the APAC Server announcement and I hope you guys get at least one free server transfer as well.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Lord_Malganus

[ralphieceaser]

I quit a year ago because the devs wanted to force operations down everyone's throat if they wanted decent gear by gatekeeping max gear behind them.

I just learned they are gonna release OCE servers which is something I wanted for ages so just returned to at least enjoy a full playthrough from the start, I was fine with the small story updates but the moment you try to force operations into my throat, I am out, the game needs more solo and casual content that can be done via automated group finder

Edited November 16, 2023 by ralphieceaser

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, SoyElSenado said:

Swtor:

1. Cash shop to buy cosmetics 

To be fair, if you want access to new content in swtor. You do have to at least pay for a subscription when that newest content is released. Otherwise you never get past lvl 50/60 of the original class stories. 

[Jazulfi]

14 hours ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

true, im looking forward for Date Night stuff that'll apparently be added, i wish we had more events like feast of prosperity or summer casino one too, in fact i don't think casino one should be summer exclusive.

I keep meaning but forgetting to ask -what's 'Date Night'?

[JakRoanin]

Yeah what is it? I didn't hear anything about it.

[TziganeNZ]

On 11/16/2023 at 3:57 AM, xxSHOONYxx said:

But people that care about the story here if you give them much longer story with text or just voiced npcs is a sacrilege even worse as if the devs killed their whole family.
 

As do I. However, I am a pragmatist and if this is the trade-off for a proper, decent-sized expansion, then I'll take it.  I'd even pay for it (but it has to be a proper EXPANSION, not a minuscule dribble of half-assed content once a year/ 18 months).

As for engagement with our companions, why can't the writers have half a day per week and knock out some letters?  No voice acting required for those, and it's great to get mail from our supposed spouses (or even other companions - let's not limit it to LIs).  Heck, put out a competition for the fans and see what great letters they come up with - stock them up and release a few every couple of weeks or so.

The rubbishy little bits and pieces of content we get now and have been getting for quite some time (breathlessly announced with great excitement as the 'next expansion') is nothing more than the GU that EQ2 puts out every 3 or so months, to keep things heading on the right path and preparing the player base for the next actual expansion in November each year. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by TziganeNZ

[JakRoanin]

Like I said I won't cry if I never hear another word of Huttese, Selkath, or Gormak. Manaan is migraine inducing. I do want to hear Basic and Mando'a though. What bugs me is when I don't hear my PC's voices. I really don't care about the rest.

[Stradlin]

3 hours ago, TziganeNZ said:

As do I. However, I am a pragmatist and if this is the trade-off for a proper, decent-sized expansion, then I'll take it.  I'd even pay for it (but it has to be a proper EXPANSION, not a minuscule dribble of half-assed content once a year/ 18 months).

As for engagement with our companions, why can't the writers have half a day per week and knock out some letters?  No voice acting required for those, and it's great to get mail from our supposed spouses (or even other companions - let's not limit it to LIs).  Heck, put out a competition for the fans and see what great letters they come up with - stock them up and release a few every couple of weeks or so.

The rubbishy little bits and pieces of content we get now and have been getting for quite some time (breathlessly announced with great excitement as the 'next expansion') is nothing more than the GU that EQ2 puts out every 3 or so months, to keep things heading on the right path and preparing the player base for the next actual expansion in November each year. 

 

Yeah..People keep saying they want more story, which is true. But only half of the truth. Significant portion of folks still playing TOR(or at least significant  portion of people posting on these forums) are absolutely fanatic about fully voiced PlayerChar. Smoking hot takes about this matter are common."I rather see game die than them giving up PCVA!" Over several years, I've made couple of threads asking about this." If it meant more frequent story drops, would you give up on PCVA?" Responses to this is almost  always a no, delivered with varying degrees of hatred.

Ever since KOTFE, BW kinda tried to ease in a situation where story progresses with mute PlayerChar, and most folks just couldn't deal with it. They are utterly unable to enjoy story or this MMO if they don't get to hear Jennifer Hale and co speak. Which brings us to this kinda depressing catch 22 situation. It has been  incredibly difficult and expensive for BW/BS  to deal with a situation where voice acting of "one" playercharacter takes 58(!!!) different actors, lol. Over 11 years, we gotten just as much new content as one would expect in such a hopeless situation, really.

 

Meanwhile, we got games like Baldur's Gate 3, which is bathing in unconditional universal love of RPG fans  and critics alike, sells like hotcakes and remains among most played single player rpgs in steam to this day.None of that could have happened with Larian's budget, had they gone with fully voiced PC. It was so symbolic to watch Baldur's  Gate/Larian do victory laps during the same weeks when BW ended up having to lay off tons of people.

Like at least half a dozen of other MMOs released around 2007-14, SWTOR was made with the idea of it becoming the big huge  wow killer literally printing huge money.  Few million active subs would have prolly resulted in a  budget allowing  fully fledged actual vast expansions, new class stories, etc.  We never got any of  that.

Monetization of TOR worked out well, they've made pretty good money considering the fairly small playerbase. Nowhere nearly enough for them to do actual expansions, ever.  Having as profitable MMO in live dev for 11+ years and delivering as little content as TOR has is truly exceptional.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Stradlin