Is it Time for a Big New Story Drop?

[DWho]

The game has been bleeding players for years now and all the attempts at retaining players have basically failed. The only content that showed any indication of bringing in lots of players was story content like KotFE and KotET (whether you liked them or not, they brought in tons of players). Dev efforts would be better spent bringing in lots of new players and then finding a way after that to retain rather them than spending time trying to retain current players with minor tweaks to the game. Those tweaks are not going to bring back any significant number of players and what the game needs now is a big infusion of players. Perhaps the devs don't have enough resources to pull off a big story drop, but the status quo is not working.

That said, the story needs to take a new direction. Both the Sith Emperor and Darth Malgus storylines have worn out their novelty (one could even say that the Malgus storyline was nothing more than a continuation of the Sith Emperor storyline with a new antagonist). No matter how many times you kill or defeat them, they kept coming back. Conquest has just about worn out its attraction as well and with the flop that was GS5, Galactic Seasons is on the ropes too.

What kind of storylines do people think would infuse new life into the game?

I think a "new" threat from outside the galaxy, sort of like the yuuzhan vong, would be a fresh story (for the game anyway) that would appeal to both Force Users and non-Force Users. Having them invade both Republic and Imperial space at the same time would give both sides something to fight and even give light sided Imperials and dark sided Pubs a way to "fight for" their preferred faction. You could even make a new type of warzone where NPCs are continually spawning and attacking both sides. An operation could be based on establishing a beachhead against further invasion or even taking the fight to the invaders and flashpoints could be designed around turning back the invasion on different "Outer Rim" worlds.

Please keep comments constructive as "Story sucks" and "The Devs don't have the time for that" type comments don't help at all. At the same time if you have a good idea outside story that will bring in a lot of new players, feel free to lay that out along with why you think it would be a big draw for increasing the game population. The end goal is to bring in lots of players, whatever the content might be.

[Spikanor]

is it not also there make each time there release a new expension there add new things that people not like to see at all when the feedback about it is more clear. same part on the feedback when there compleet ignore it also and later on people told then from we have told you so.

or there think there inprove something but only make it worse and bad that make it easyer also for players to leave the game faster the PVP and the new gearing system has proof that more that people have left the game faster.

and about the new players i think there need to chance the compleet formule there have been using since the first day like to remove some of the anoying restictions the preff and F2P have to make it for then fun to play.

since for a new player to have that many restrictions as a F2P player when you not sure if you wane spent real money in the game is all bad since we all have see it with or own eye's when we have start playing this game for the first time that most of the restrictions are so bad that you also think by you self if its worth to spent money on it.

 

and the most and the bigst problem is there is no long therm plan there have and wane share to us since with a long therm plan what there wane do with the game is something you need to gain trust and without a plan the trust is low.

[Lord_Malganus]

Development is long gone. The recent selective survey and its questions and their design choices with 7.4 as Biggs explains on his latest video all point to Broadswords future focus being on content already in place and CM sales.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Lord_Malganus

[xxSHOONYxx]

32 minutes ago, DWho said:

The only content that showed any indication of bringing in lots of players was story content like KotFE and KotET

You are kidding right? Is there a camera behind me and this is a prank? 
You meaning to tell me those were good expansions? That kotet had to be cut short from 16 chapters to 9 and had rush group content because the bleed must have been big.
The same expansions that in that time period needed to have a server merge and it went from like 17 servers to 5? 
Did you actually play in 2.0 or 3.0?

Maybe, just maaaaaaybe, the big influx of people that did happen in Kotfe was because some "small indie film" named force awakens was released around 2 months after the expansion? After no movies from that ip for 10 years and people needed to scratch that star wars itch. Unltil they all quit fast because kotfe had nothing to retain players.

4.0 and beginning of 5.0 is EXACTLY a clear tale of what happens when you blow your whole budget in story and nothing on content that has player retention.
Story focused games work only when the story is good and you pay your 60-70 dollars up front. As a recurring subscription model story focused expansions fail. Even the best single player games with amazing story have HUGE dips in player count after 1 month

[DWho]

10 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

You are kidding right? Is there a camera behind me and this is a prank? 

Not kidding at all. It was the biggest influx of players since launch by far. You clearly hated the story and that colors your opinion of it's effect. The reason they cut KotET short was the bellyaching of group players that they didn't get enough new content and that ruined KotET as a whole with the rushed storylines and cut content.

 

13 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Unltil they all quit fast because kotfe had nothing to retain players.

It didn't retain players well, which is true but it doesn't change the fact that the biggest increase in the game's population occurred with a big story drop. We have focused on non-story content now for 7 years and are we better off now than we were then, I think not. The focus for the last 7 years has been a failure and it's time to go back to something that at the very least will bring in new players

You can't retain players you don't have and no other content in the game has shown any indication it can bring in new players.

[Exly]

21 minutes ago, Lord_Malganus said:

Development is long gone. The recent selective survey and its questions and their design choices with 7.4 as Biggs explains on his latest video all point to Broadswords future focus being on content already in place and CM sales.

I just watched the video and think that Biggs nailed it.  Truth and passion were on full display.  It's too bad that his words will probably fall on deaf ears for those that should be listening to what he said.

[psikofunkster]

Poor Mr. Bigg hes trying to focus on his career and job saying goodbye to video games and then there it is the temptation a survey....

I agree with his latest video except on the first thing he say: this game needs more nims sorry but that's a niche, what this game really need is easy, fun, puggable and fast operations like EV and KP, but they don't listen they think everybody wants complicated r-4 stuff.

Edited November 13, 2023 by psikofunkster

[Lord_Malganus]

1 minute ago, Exly said:

I just watched the video and think that Biggs nailed it.  Truth and passion were on full display.  It's too bad that his words will probably fall on deaf ears for those that should be listening to what he said.

I also think he nailed it.

[DeannaVoyager]

If and when there will be new story, I hope there will also be a skip point. I can't play any of the new story bits because it's all behind Echoes of Oblivion and I don't hate myself enogh to play through that again. 

 

A new operation would be nice too. 

[TrixxieTriss]

6 minutes ago, DWho said:

Not kidding at all. It was the biggest influx of players since launch by far. You clearly hated the story and that colors your opinion of it's effect. The reason they cut KotET short was the bellyaching of group players that they didn't get enough new content and that ruined KotET as a whole with the rushed storylines and cut content.

 

It didn't retain players well, which is true but it doesn't change the fact that the biggest increase in the game's population occurred with a big story drop. We have focused on non-story content now for 7 years and are we better off now than we were then, I think not. The focus for the last 7 years has been a failure and it's time to go back to something that at the very least will bring in new players

You can't retain players you don't have and no other content in the game has shown any indication it can bring in new players.

It also drove away a lot of MMO centric players. Both pve & pvpers alike & started the second big exodus of long time loyal & steady swtor subscribers. Which they replaced with fly by night solo story players interested more in space barbies than sticking around to replay MMO content once the story was finished. Because as soon as those players were done with the story, they unsubbed & went to play another game because BioWare couldn’t make content fast enough for them. That’s why MMO players & PvP & raids etc matter in MMO’s. MMO players come for the story & stick around for the repayable group content it offers. Where as story only players leave as soon as they’re done. That’s why KOTET & KOTFE were so destructive to this games population & why they tried to turn back into an MMO. 

[DWho]

5 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That’s why KOTET & KOTFE were so destructive to this games population & why they tried to turn back into an MMO. 

You are completely wrong here. Without significant story to draw in players, the MMO parts fail (we haven't had any significant story since KotET and the game population has continued to collapse even though they have added MMO content almost exclusively). You can't blame story for the continuation of the collapse when there hasn't been any in 7 years..

Edited November 13, 2023 by DWho

[Bigfallenstar]

15 minutes ago, psikofunkster said:

Poor Mr. Bigg hes trying to focus on his career and job saying goodbye to video games and then there it is the temptation a survey....

I agree with his latest video except on the first thing he say: this game needs more nims sorry but that's a niche, what this game really need is easy, fun, puggable and fast operations like EV and KP, but they don't listen they think everybody wants complicated r-4 stuff.

Don't know if we should take the words of an ex-ranked player seriously, but I do agree that operations should be fun and easy. Not have over the top complicated mechanics like some people think they should be.

[Whykara]

9 minutes ago, DWho said:

we haven't had any significant story since KotET and the game population has continued to collapse even though they have added MMO content almost exclusively

Like what? One operation? One pvp arena map?

[TrixxieTriss]

9 minutes ago, DWho said:

You are completely wrong here. Without significant story to draw in players, the MMO parts fail (we haven't had any significant story since KotET and the game population has continued to collapse even though they have added MMO content almost exclusively). You can't blame story for the continuation of the collapse when there hasn't been any in 7 years..

I’m off to sleep now. So I’ll let someone else explain to you why you are the one who is so wrong in their analysis 

Edited November 13, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DWho]

13 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

MMO players come for the story

You make my point exactly here. Players join the game for the story making it by far the best way to increase game population

[Char_Ell]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

That said, the story needs to take a new direction. Both the Sith Emperor and Darth Malgus storylines have worn out their novelty (one could even say that the Malgus storyline was nothing more than a continuation of the Sith Emperor storyline with a new antagonist). No matter how many times you kill or defeat them, they kept coming back.

New direction may or may not be what is needed.  It just depends on what the new story would be.  Truthfully I don't really care much about SWTOR's story any more.  It just takes too long to develop and I forget what has happened since I don't play any story content from KOTFE to current with any regularity.  I think it's quite clear that with 7.5 and 7.6 in the works we're not going to get any major new directions in story for at least another year anyway.

 

1 hour ago, DWho said:

Conquest has just about worn out its attraction as well and with the flop that was GS5, Galactic Seasons is on the ropes too.

Any kind of evidence you can provide to support these viewpoints?  I think Conquest has been worn out for several years now but from what I can see in terms of guild scores on Satele Shan, Star Forge, and Darth Malgus there are plenty of guilds that still participate in Conquest.  Galactic Seasons 5 started in September and Steam player data for SWTOR shows player activity increased in September and October so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that GS 5 is a flop.

[DWho]

1 minute ago, Whykara said:

Like what? One operation? One pvp arena map?

three operations with multiple difficulty levels, and a bunch of flashpoints compared to about a grand total of 10 or 12 hours of story (and generally bad story at that because it was delivered through group content during part of that run.

[xxSHOONYxx]

13 minutes ago, DWho said:

It didn't retain players well, which is true but it doesn't change the fact that the biggest increase in the game's population occurred with a big story drop. We have focused on non-story content now for 7 years and are we better off now than we were then, I think not. The focus for the last 7 years has been a failure and it's time to go back to something that at the very least will bring in new players

You can't retain players you don't have and no other content in the game has shown any indication it can bring in new players.

You missed the point on why the influx of players happened, even when several thousands quit when 4.0 announced or stayed for one month. The release of Disney star wars with the first movie after revenge of the sith in 2005. 
Same way as why 6.0 was somewhat ok player count wise, because the pandemic and lockdown. 
Swtor highs after 2.0-3.0 come from external sources/hypes, not by what the devs produce.
4.0 + Anthem was the beginning of the end of this game.
 

4 minutes ago, DWho said:

You are completely wrong here. Without significant story to draw in players, the MMO parts fail (we haven't had any significant story since KotET and the game population has continued to collapse even though they have added MMO content). You can't blame story for the continuation of the collapse when there hasn't been any in 7 years..

You make it sound as if swtor story was left behind and they pump mmo content none stop. On the last 9 years only 3 ops were added, gods dxun and r4. Think a map was added to pvp? And ranked removed. Is that focusing on mmo content?
2.0 had the same number of operations released than those 9 years, snv df and dp. 
Galactic seasons is not actual mmo content, yet is what dictates lately the player base of the game due to lack of actual content. Last story update on 7.3 had actually a dip of 28% population compared to the previos month.  Which continued dipping two more months with 15.86% and 16.65% less players until galactic seaons came and numbers started growing again

[TrixxieTriss]

14 minutes ago, DWho said:

You make my point exactly here. Players join the game for the story making it by far the best way to increase game population

Only if they stay. Which means there has to be a reason to stay once the story is done. Sadly, BioWare went out of their way in KOTET/KOTFE to turn swtor from a MMO centric game that you could play with friends that had interesting stuff to do once the story was done. To a single player story experience that you couldn’t play with your friends. At the same time they destroyed MMO centric systems like PvP & Ops or didn’t update them & let them wither & die. Which drove away those MMO centric players who used to stick around paying their subscription between story releases. BioWare even stated during the 3.x era, that PvPers were their most loyal & stable subscriber group. No one is arguing you don’t need story. We’re trying to point out that KOTET/KOTFE weren’t the great things you think they were for this game. They actually lost lots of long term stable subscriber income because of how they alienated MMO centric players. And while we all like some story updates, concentrating only on that is detrimental to the health of the game.

Edited November 13, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DWho]

Just now, xxSHOONYxx said:

You make it sound as if swtor story was left behind and they pump mmo content none stop. On the last 9 years only 3 ops were added, gods dxun and r4. Think a map was added to pvp? And ranked removed. Is that focusing on mmo content?

When it is by far most of the content released, yes. You also forgot all the flashpoints they added which they tried to pass off as story but were really dumbed down group content with a few cutscenes.

 

2 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Galactic seasons is not actual mmo content, yet is what dictates lately the player base of the game due to lack of actual content. Last story update on 7.3 had actually a dip of 28% population compared to the previos month.  Which continued dipping two more months with 15.86% and 16.65% less players until galactic seaons came and numbers started growing again

It dipped quickly because there was almost no story at all. People showed up for the new story burned through it in an hour or two (and the ending flashpoint was horribly bugged) and then saw nothing else that interested them and left. GS seasons, as far as I can tell, along with conquest is pure MMO content. All MMOs use grinding to extend player "participation" There is no MMO that doesn't have a significant amount of grind in it.

Lack of actual content is the problem and that is why we need a big influx of players and as I said, story is the only reliable way to bring in players but it needs to be significant. An hour here or there isn't going to do anythnig.

[JakRoanin]

Short answer, yes! Now, long answer... It can't be formatted like the Eternal Empire chapters, it was awkward and the rush left some pretty gaping holes in the narrative. Also, I have to wonder what people who scream at the top of their keyboards that "story isn't content" did with the base game. The most played content in this game are the class stories. Period, do not pass go do not collect 200$ the most played content is STORY! There are people in this game that have hundreds of toons to experience every possible variation in the story. You can literally be 100's of different people in the SW's universe and that is why people play.

Now, I am NOT saying Ops, and PvP should not be in-game. However, these people who degrade, discount, and attack Story content are wrecking their own content. We story people pay for their fun! Because the vast majority of us stay!

Edited November 13, 2023 by JakRoanin

[DWho]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

BioWare even stated during the 3.x era, that PvPers were their most loyal & stable subscriber group.

That had a lot to do with playing PVP requiring a subscription.

 

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Only if they stay. Which means there has to be a reason to stay once the story is done.

which is why I have said over and over again that to get a new influx of players they need to put out substantial story. The MMO pieces don't bring in players in any significant numbers. Story isn't the be all and end all any more than any of the group play aspects but what this game needs desperately now is an influx of players. If even 5% of them stayed after it would be an improvement on what we have now.

 

4 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

We’re trying to point out that KOTET/KOTFE we’re the great things you think they were for this game.

Well, I liked them and a lot of other players liked them as well. Were they perfect no. But they showed what a substantial story drop could do for the population. Like them or hate them, you cannot deny they coincided with the biggest increase in game population ever (you can argue it was some other reason if you like but the fact still is, they were significant in size and kept people busy for a considerable time - certainly more than any other content addition since)

[TrixxieTriss]

13 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Short answer, yes! Now, long answer... It can't be formatted like the Eternal Empire chapters, it was awkward and the rush left some pretty gaping holes in the narrative. Also, I have to wonder what people who scream at the top of their keyboards that "story isn't content" did with the base game. The most played content in this game are the class stories. Period, do not pass go do not collect 200$ the most played content is STORY! There are people in this game that have hundreds of toons to experience every possible variation in the story. You can literally be 100's of different people in the SW's universe and that is why people play.

Now, I am NOT saying Ops, and PvP should not be in-game. However, these people who degrade, discount, and attack Story content are wrecking their own content. We story people pay for their fun! Because the vast majority of us stay!

I doubt many serious posters are degenerating story or the games need for it. Those of us critical of it are saying the way they went about the development on KOTET/KOFTE was flawed & they alienated several thousand MMO centric players who had already played all the class stories many times. But we stuck around to play PvP or do raids once we finished the story. BioWare drove many MMO centric players from the game. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DWho]

Just now, TrixxieTriss said:

BioWare drove many MMO centric players from the game.

And over the last 7 years they have gone out of their way to drive people who like the Star Wars story from the game.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 minute ago, DWho said:

That had a lot to do with playing PVP requiring a subscription.

Not true. We subscribed to play the game & stayed for the PvP. They only just got rid of the subscription requirement for PvP in 7.3. So what happened between 3.x & 7.3? BioWare drove PvPers from the game is what happened.