State of PvP - Things that should / could change for the better.

[SentinalMasterWW]

4 minutes ago, septru said:

Dude no one is talking about ranked PvP. You're the only one. There's a difference between ranked and competitive PvP in general. 

Ignoring this pointless Debate, and getting back on track to the forum topic

6 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

All  Broadsword  would have to do is just simply re-institute & incorporate  RANKED back into current existing PvP Seasons template.

I think most PVPer's will take anything at this point, Seasons can work as I have suggesting handing out rewards to top Healers, Tanks, DPS, etc in a specific season. They could even track the top players Win % for a season handing out custom flairs like ranked had for the top Performers in a season, and giving more ranked tokens.

I could even see creating new Custom Armors/Weapons that would only be given out to the players that fall in that in top % category.

[Nee-Elder]

15 minutes ago, septru said:

 You can bring back performance based rewards without bringing back ranked.

Fair point.

i just wonder if Broadsword is considering ( or allowed to consider )  anything  at all these days other than more Seasons X number mode.

6 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

 Seasons can work as I have suggesting handing out rewards to top Healers, Tanks, DPS, etc in a specific season. They could even track the top players Win % for a season handing out custom flairs like ranked had for the top Performers in a season, and giving more ranked tokens.

I could even see creating new Custom Armors/Weapons that would only be given out to the players that fall in that in top % category.

Also fair points and solid  ideas.

i wonder if  SWTOR even has an official  'PVP Dev Representative'  anymore going forward?

We might not know until  7.4 and December.

[septru]

27 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i just wonder if Broadsword is considering ( or allowed to consider )  anything  at all these days other than more Seasons X number mode.

No.

27 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i wonder if  SWTOR even has an official  'PVP Dev Representative'  anymore going forward?

Helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll no. 

[Char_Ell]

1 hour ago, septru said:

The data may not mean anything alone. But anyone that plays PvP, can see for themselves how PvP seasons has killed the PvP community. The PvP community used to be the most loyal community in the game. Look at @TrixxieTriss. I disagree with everything she says, but at least she has the passion and loyalty to relentlessly post on these forums for 10 years. PvPers play this game because we love this game. We all know what needs to get fixed. We argue about the details, but it's pretty simple: Limit premades to 4 ppl. Bring back some competitive mode. Balance classes. If any of these issues were fixed, PvPers would be able to just play for fun. But longtime PvPers are leaving in droves. The data simply shows this. 

No, the data does not show this.  The Steam player activity data that was cited is for all SWTOR players using the Steam client.  It does not indicate which of those players are playing PvE, PvP, story content only, or whatever content mixture.  What I object to is the characterization of the data that concludes PvP Seasons 3 started a precipitous downtrend in SWTOR player population.  That is not what happened.  There was a bigger decrease in June numbers than there was in July when PvP Season 3 started.  Saying SWTOR player activity numbers on Steam are approaching all time lows is factually correct.  I can agree with that conclusion.

When you say "longtime PvPers are leaving in droves" this is anecdotal.  I'm not disputing that because I rarely play PvP and have no basis to dispute that.  But that is not quantifiable data unless you can identify all the long time PvP players that have left the game and compared to long time PvP players still playing the game.  That is not easy to quantify.  It's clear to me most participants in this thread do not like how PvP in SWTOR currently functions and think PvP is dying/already dead as a SWTOR game mode.  I'm not offering any opinion or view on this.

[TrixxieTriss]

8 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I think its the Core issues of PVP which is holding PVP Seasons back, Like they took out ranked, and and with 7.0 gutted any complexity to PVP and made it a COD Deathmatch fest where there is no thinking, just play the meta spec with the most DPS. 

I don’t disagree on those points because they are definitely a contributing factor too. But premades/matchmaking & the devs inability to even address that topic is also a contributing factor & turning players away. 

[TrixxieTriss]

9 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

SWTOR player activity levels on Steam began their steep decline in June, well before the start of PvP Season 3 on July 18

Yes, they started declining the last weeks of season 2 when most people had already finished it. And continued to decline sharply between the season. Sadly, we didn’t even see a small bump in population when season 3 started. Which is why it’s a failure. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

8 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Removing Ranked killed like 2-5% of the PVP population, So saying the removal of ranked is hardly what is killing PVP

It killed way more than that. Many casual pvpers played ranked too. And when most of your best ranked players leave, who also played causal WZ’s, who is left to teach new people or for them to play against & get better? 

Edited August 24, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[septru]

11 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

It does not indicate which of those players are playing PvE, PvP, story content only, or whatever content mixture.

The game has only 2 forms of "content" at the moment: Galactic Seasons, and PvP Seasons. It says a lot, when the drop of each of these extremely engaging hamsterwheels do not result in a sudden spike of players. Much less a loss.

 

 

Also: I don't know if it's the incredibly obnoxious green text, or the "I don't play PvP, but I can tell about the PvP population" mentality, but your posts scream smart-alec forum warrior. Just write in regular font. You're not special. 

 

 

[septru]

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It killed way more than that.

This and so much more. 

 

But honestly, who cares anymore? We already talked about the removal of ranked at length. It's obvious why they did it. Ranked is gone and it's not coming back. However, that doesn't mean you can't bring back a competitive aspect. 

 

For some reason @SentinalMasterWW wants to make every discussion about ranked. No one is talking about ranked. We're talking about the obvious issues with 7.2 that literally ANYONE who PvPs can see with their own 2 eyes that are driving away the PvP playerbase en mass. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by septru

[Char_Ell]

1 hour ago, septru said:

The game has only 2 forms of "content" at the moment: Galactic Seasons, and PvP Seasons. It says a lot, when the drop of each of these extremely engaging hamsterwheels do not result in a sudden spike of players. Much less a loss.

 

 

Also: I don't know if it's the incredibly obnoxious green text, or the "I don't play PvP, but I can tell about the PvP population" mentality, but your posts scream smart-alec forum warrior. Just write in regular font. You're not special. 

If your intent was to reinforce your perception as stereotypical PvP snob elitist with this response then mission accomplished.  When you don't address the substance of the argument (SWTOR's population decline is not just because of PvP Season 3) and focus your response on the superficial (I don't like your green text) it just comes off as being petty.

[TheVoyant]

6 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It killed way more than that. Many casual pvpers played ranked too. And when most of your best ranked players leave, who also played causal WZ’s, who is left to teach new people or for them to play against & get better? 

This is massively under appreciated. Most of what I know for PvP comes from more experienced Ranked players who took the time to teach me and my group how to be better. Their sole intent was to grow the community, 7.x was a slap in the face to that. 

There was a great community of multiple guilds who worked together to try and make PvP a healthier place. I myself used to host massive duel tournaments & it was a great time for just about everyone. We would pay it forward and spend time working with newer or lesser skilled players.

All of us left initially at Legacy of the Sith, a small handful of us came back recently for nostalgia. I've tried to take newer players under my wing so to speak but now casual is more toxic then ranked ever was imo. You have matches where the majority of the players completely ignore objectives and just throw the match right away bc they don't care at all.

Whatever the goal was they clearly failed.

[krackcommando]

20 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Controversial take but that is the main reason why Ranked was removed, It catered to a niche community that was already shrinking.

there was one dev post that slapped a few of those commonly held beliefs on the board. i personally think the biggest factor was it was too much effort to do right. they literally half arsed the thing from the beginning. imagine a solo q that is not x-faction in a competitive format. couldn't even give out seasonal rewards properly (wrong ppl getting gold mounts and platinum flairs). i'm certain population size and toxicity played into it. just chiming in that it was a mix of incompetence and unwillingness to do the work necessary to police/run the system properly. ironically the same basic complaint of many high end gamers about casuals.

fwiw i'm casual but when I play for months at a time, i put more game time down than 99% of players do in a year. the term is more about how much i care to research or work.

17 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I think its the Core issues of PVP which is holding PVP Seasons back, Like they took out ranked, and and with 7.0 gutted any complexity to PVP and made it a COD Deathmatch fest where there is no thinking, just play the meta spec with the most DPS.

i think the pruning was done (predictably) poorly, but your analogy to CoD is completely off. the pruning has successfully highlighted the importance of going into battle with guard and healer on your team. full stop. that is an irrefutable fact. i will die on that hill. pvp in this game needs more trinity comps. i'm 100% behind balancing for trinity.

before you get your hackles up though, i agree that the end result is a mess. pruning was not done judiciously or with an even hand. the number of global erasures seems to be way up in my experience.

meta spec comment is prolly overstated though. everyone smashed in the smash era. then the tactics aoe slow area (to counter smash). and the bubble stun era. all the way back to assault spec VG (s1 and earlier). remember when enet first came out? responsive safeguards? both times everyone raged about all the mercs. etc. now it's maddness sorcs. the complaints usually have a grain of truth to them. just saying that the state of meta specs turning WZs into CoD isn't new.

17 hours ago, septru said:

We all know what needs to get fixed. We argue about the details, but it's pretty simple: Limit premades to 4 ppl. Bring back some competitive mode. Balance classes. If any of these issues were fixed, PvPers would be able to just play for fun.

👍

17 hours ago, septru said:

All of these issues existed before 7.0. But for some reason you think these are the core reasons people are leaving in 7.2?

tbf, when i stopped rated and reg wzs were all that I had left to do, that was why i left. nobody cared to play the wzs (also I hated opg and quesh).

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by krackcommando
personally p1

[krackcommando]

4 hours ago, septru said:

The game has only 2 forms of "content" at the moment: Galactic Seasons, and PvP Seasons. It says a lot, when the drop of each of these extremely engaging hamsterwheels do not result in a sudden spike of players. Much less a loss.

 

 

Also: I don't know if it's the incredibly obnoxious green text, or the "I don't play PvP, but I can tell about the PvP population" mentality, but your posts scream smart-alec forum warrior. Just write in regular font. You're not special. 

 

 

one like wasn't enough cuz i liked the first paragraph then read the second and though, "I WAS JUST THINKING THAT GREEN TEXT WAS PRETENTIOUS! and does this person pvp?" was no point commenting on it. but when you did it gave me a chuckle. 😃

edit: caps cuz excited in the moment of reading not yelling. prolly didn't need to clarify that. lul

Edited August 24, 2023 by krackcommando

[Prapcaster]

1 hour ago, krackcommando said:

one like wasn't enough cuz i liked the first paragraph then read the second and though, "I WAS JUST THINKING THAT GREEN TEXT WAS PRETENTIOUS! and does this person pvp?" was not point commenting on it. but when you did it gave me a chuckle. 😃

I knew that guys from bergeron colony from like a decade ago. Pretty sure he was in an rp guild back then and he did zero pvp and couldn't really clear anything in pve either. Unless he got really good at the game in this time he's got zero credentials to talk about anything in this game outside of running dailies.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

3 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

If your intent was to reinforce your perception as stereotypical PvP snob elitist with this response then mission accomplished.  When you don't address the substance of the argument (SWTOR's population decline is not just because of PvP Season 3) and focus your response on the superficial (I don't like your green text) it just comes off as being petty.

It might be superficial, but I skip over posts that use different colours or for some reason have really large fonts.  I only notice anything they say if they get quoted.

I'm not sure why you, and some other posters, use colours in your posts, but if it's to get attention, then I think you might be losing a lot more then you gain.  Odds are I'm not the only one who basically ignores posters who play games with the text.

Edited August 24, 2023 by LD_Little_Dragon

[DeannaVoyager]

14 hours ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

It might be superficial, but I skip over posts that use different colours or for some reason have really large fonts.  I only notice anything they say if they get quoted.

I'm not sure why you, and some other posters, use colours in your posts, but if it's to get attention, then I think you might be losing a lot more then you gain.  Odds are I'm not the only one who basically ignores posters who play games with the text.

You are not the only one. I also skip them. I start reading the first 1-2 rows, but if whatever is the point is not being said in those two rows, I will skip the rest of the message. That particular color just hurts my eyes.