An update on the development of SWTOR

[Crystal_Mind]

4 hours ago, KeithKanneg said:

Whoa whoa everyone... I was hoping me telling you about the upcoming releases would help you understand this is a new beginning, not the end.

We have more stories, modernizations, and MMO content already being planned out beyond 7.4.  While details are being discussed and finalized behind the scenes, let's not spin this into incorrect theories.  I am asking you to hang tight and we'll follow up later with more details when we can.

-Keith

I understand that 1.) EA/BioWare was not prepared to go public with this deal at the time of IGN's article yesterday, and 2.) The team is likely barred by contract from disclosing details of active negotiations.

I also understand that the team has a vested interested in maintaining a positive attitude about the game regardless of the outcome, because any public negative discussions by the current studio have the potential to harm the product. As others have said, Broadsword's current track record is not encouraging for anyone who expects the game to maintain even the meager content updates that have characterized recent years in SWTOR.

That said, I haven't seen everything this game has to offer; and there is a fair bit of existing content. As long as there is a playerbase and the servers remain online, the game will endure. In the worst case scenario of life-support/maintenance mode, I at least have the grim silver lining that my prog team won't have to recomp again based on an unforeseen class change.

But for the veteran playerbase who's seen it all? Those players who've cleared every raid in every mode and every role? The story players who've seen the story a dozen times? The old guard pvp players still somehow holding on after the removal of the ranked game mode? Even the specter of maintenance mode on the horizon is easily the last straw for those in that population who haven't already left.
 

Just now, codydmaan said:

im quite surprised you havent locked this thread

if they lock the thread, they just have to put on full-time moderation in the inevitable side-threads on the subject. Locking the thread also creates more backlash than they're already getting. By leaving the thread open, they allow a somewhat contained vent space for the minority of subscribed players who frequent the forums.

[Lord_Arawn]

I love this game, so much so that among my 250 Steam games, this is the one I play the most, so I always make sure to pay my subscription and buy a lot of CC, many times the price of a game! With that in mind, I say, I'm not going to worry right now, I'm going to take Keith Kanneg's word and wait for the facts to unfold, not taking any reckless actions, except continuing to play.

Since I entered the game, I've seen several apocalypses and probable ends for this game, it seems that there are people who love a drama and bury the game several times, I'm not like that, I love this game, I want it to live a long time yet .If you have to give up dubbed stories for that, no problem, in fact I think this game should have already started saving on dubbing and saving money for the story, as well as selling its expansions (even to subscribers like me , only with a discount, lol), as long as they are neat!

Without negative and apocalyptic thoughts, I'll be waiting for the unfolding of the story! Also because it would be stupid to cancel or turn on maintenance mode in a game, which was growing a lot on Steam, in the last few months it had been maintaining a peak of 20 to 30% gain of players and I totally know that E.A is not dumb! In fact, the measure aims to bring more content, even if small, to maintain this growth or avoid a drop in numbers.

[TrixxieTriss]

32 minutes ago, codydmaan said:

I mean im quite surprised you havent locked this thread yet.

BioWare would be playing whack a mole for weeks or months because other threads would just keep popping up straight away with all the quotes. 

[Sonicphoto]

4 hours ago, KeithKanneg said:

Whoa whoa everyone... I was hoping me telling you about the upcoming releases would help you understand this is a new beginning, not the end.

We have more stories, modernizations, and MMO content already being planned out beyond 7.4.  While details are being discussed and finalized behind the scenes, let's not spin this into incorrect theories.  I am asking you to hang tight and we'll follow up later with more details when we can.

-Keith

Hi Keith, I think the issue wasn't your message, but more what the IGN article stated. Since they talked about numbers of devs that would be moved, and some laid offs, so that bit on that press article is what mainly caused concern I feel in terms of what the game will look like moving forward.  Granted, I know you wouldn't be able to talk about that, but just wanted to clarify where that sentiment may come from. It really doesn't help this news was dropped out of nowhere as a scoop rather than an official statement, so sorry to everyone on the team that didn't get to handle this in a way that was planned out in advance and instead you have to figure out what to do with this. I'm hoping for the best though, will always love this game and its unique storytelling, so cheers!

[cool-dude]

Broadsword is a developer EA uses for mmos in Maintenance mode(MM). Since 2007-2008, they have done nothing but MM for the two mmos they run. If you think that is magically going to change with SWTOR, I got a bridge to sell you.

[MaximusRex]

21 minutes ago, cool-dude said:

Broadsword is a developer EA uses for mmos in Maintenance mode(MM). Since 2007-2008, they have done nothing but MM for the two mmos they run. If you think that is magically going to change with SWTOR, I got a bridge to sell you.

Even if it does change for SWTOR, the same source says the game is losing half of its staff, and since these MM games don't have the type of staff that makes new content, that means the only possible outcome is worse than what we have now.

[dgnuff]

On 6/6/2023 at 4:31 PM, xordevoreaux said:

Will Broadsword take over the existing Bioware servers or do we follow them over to their own server farm?

That's a non-question.  With the move to AWS, if that's done completely, then there is no requirement for physical servers owned by BioWare or Broadsword.  So nothing to take over in the first place.

 

In a dream world, BioWare wouldn't have just moved to AWS, they'd have put everything in Docker Images.  That would let them spin the game up on anyone's servers.  AWS, Azure, Google cloud, you name it.  Although having worked with Docker in the past, I'll be the first to admit "Easy to say, vastly more difficult to actually achieve."

[Lord_Malganus]

No need for Servers.

Milked to death. Updated to 64 bit, sold.

Now comes MM. Massive streamlining, removal of features (bloated code) and conversion to console.

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Lord_Malganus

[Headstylez]

Yeah I f***ing love this game.  And idk much about game  development because I don’t develop games. But I smell so much stuff that was not the Bioware of old.  So to anyone who takes control of this game from here on and actually wants to push it to the max potential: please do it.  There will never be another game like this.  You’ll probably fail because it’s probably already too late, but you will do so much for the people who love this

[Kristallia]

4 hours ago, GeneralGyro said:

I went to the website and wow, feels straight outta 2007

 

and an unsecure connection at that

Are you sure you went to correct website? Because for me it says its https and connection is secured.

[CrazyScruffy]

Sorry but Chris’ twitter does not reassure me at all. His direction and only listening to his band of nim players in their private discord is a huge reason why the game is a mess right now. When he acknowledges the fact he ruined the game for many, maybe I’ll listen more. 
 

id rather listen to the people who actually stayed on and tried to fix the miss. 

[Kristallia]

3 hours ago, TalLura said:

I think the twitter thread from Former bioware and swotr dev Chris Schmidt helps spread some idea on what going on, and honestly leaves this whole move slightly better feeling 

Thank you for sharing this here! I find it quite interesting stuff to read.

[JakRoanin]

Well he almost ruined it for me.All I want is more Story and Word bosses though so in fairness I'm not his target demographic.

[Blakinik]

8 hours ago, KeithKanneg said:

Whoa whoa everyone... I was hoping me telling you about the upcoming releases would help you understand this is a new beginning, not the end.

We have more stories, modernizations, and MMO content already being planned out beyond 7.4.  While details are being discussed and finalized behind the scenes, let's not spin this into incorrect theories.  I am asking you to hang tight and we'll follow up later with more details when we can.

-Keith

Well for starters if I delved into wild theory tangent land with my posting - I am sorry as it was not intentional.

Second though is I think much of the uproar is over fear of the unknown - and holy cow this is an unknown.  Effectively Broadsword has managed 2 classic MMOs that for all purposes look like they have been in maintenance mode, at least for UO since 2018.  That is 5 years without a content update or significant updates.  Granted that game is about as old as the modern internet which is saying something about its staying power, but THAT is the fear the many of the players seem to have - the slow grandma in a vegetative state put out to pasture death of the game.  Additionally not to rain on the parade, but even combined UO and DAOC doesn't have half or less the player base that SWTOR supposedly has.  Best estimates I have heard was UO was in the single thousands (1,000 to 9,999) consecutive players and the majority of those are Japan and China.  So can Broadsword even manage the project or is this a wish and a prayer?

So are they equipped to handle it is my next concern?  After all I am one of those "played since launch" folks that honestly plan on sticking through to the end but not to simply dump cash into a game that will slowly bleed to death with a slow steady loss of the subscriber base.  Plus the games they currently manage were rampant with gold farmers and scammers before I quit UO.  Granted SWTOR isn't UO but that is the fourth issue.

SWTOR is NOT UO or DAOC.  It is a RPG MMO that is story based.  UO is a grinding farming simulator where its more about farming mats for skill improvement than RP.  And this is talkign to someone that literally spent they 20's sitting in a chair and mindlessly "grinding hour and hour to raise my mining skill a whopping 0.1% after an hour of continuously clicking a dang pickaxe against a virtual cave wall!  Sure you can RP there, if you want to RP like they do on Fleet.  Furthermore, the game was a perpetual land grab when I did it till the age of suburbs (age of shadows) which was about as immersive as 1,000 Keeps in a "wilderness" area could be.  I remember I am not exaggerating much when I say 1,000 keeps in an area.

Finally while I am not privy to the licensing agreement with Disney, I personally would like some assurances form someone that they are in it for the long haul.  In particular, what is the player base minimum needed before Disney says "shut it down" or effectively costs more to maintain the license than the revenue / profit generated.  Also when I hear EA say "with the players best intentions in mind" I have to say "Battlefront loot boxes" as a response.  I trust you personally @KeithKanneg but its a great deal of suspicion for EA when they try to say anything about the betterment of the player base.  For this I simply need to see the actions are in fact "in the best interests of the player base".

So in conclusion, I will give it the benefit of the doubt because I think everyone with SWTOR wants it too succeed.  but would kindly ask that there is an actual "no spin" FAQ of what the change means, an approximate timeline, and what changes will be coming.  Because as I mentioned above, what is being said and what actions have been historically done do not appear to be in alignment.  I seriously will reserve judgment and really hope for a positive outcome.

Blakinik

 

PS - I also want to put this into perspective as well.  Remember when the latest and great "Conspiracy!!!" that circulated was Amazon was going to buy EA?  That went nowhere fast.  Another of the reasons we should take a "Wait and see" approach to this.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Blakinik
Added the PS and Conspiracy comment.

[fabsus]

to be honest, i really would be shocked, if there were no rough sketches about future content.
and i totally believe if you say, that there are people working, even finalizing modernizations.

but now everything is painting a picture.

all the structual changes made in the past and being finalized now, are needed to transfer
the game to broadsword, because they are just not able to do these inhouse. and here i
don't wanna say, that they are not able to do so in general, but that you can't maintain
a game with major issues about that stuff.

but also broadsword has its own reputation as the dead end of mmos. so you may understand
the lack of trust in the changes. 

and here i wanna be very clear!

not a single talented dev, even with the smallest ambition would move to herndon, virginia
to work for broadsword by choice. not a single one!
switching over to broadsword is not just one step down on the career ladder. 
of course some very specialized and not well to be integrated ppl should be praised away,
but there are tons of better options for everybody in that industry. they really need to be
very naive or resigned.

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by fabsus

[Shayddow]

Well, one thing that some people here may be happy about with Broadsword - and some people will not like - is that there are people on Dark Age of Camelot Forums don't like change:

Quote

Muylae wrote: »

i don't get it.

BS seems to want to change the game ? why ?

why do people think change for the sake of change is good ?

most people playing this game have been playing this game for a LONG time

.... chess .... the rules have been the same for over 4000 years

imagine someone saying, 'chess is boring and stale' lets change the rules and now a horse jumps ahead 3 instead of 2 before going one left or right...

So for people who foresee little change (or as others might say, stagnation) after Broadsword takes over, this may come to pass for SWTOR as well.

Although I did see French and German forums listed for DAoC as well, which was interesting to see whether SWTOR will continue to support that community.

[Whykara]

21 minutes ago, Blakinik said:

but would kindly ask that there is an actual "no spin" FAQ of what the change means, an approximate timeline, and what changes will be coming. 

This. If there was ever a time to talk to the players frankly, it's now. They don't have to do it before anything is actually official, but if we hear no word from BioWare on this matter in the next weeks, I'd be rightfully offended. 

[Blakinik]

23 minutes ago, Shayddow said:

Well, one thing that some people here may be happy about with Broadsword - and some people will not like - is that there are people on Dark Age of Camelot Forums don't like change:

So for people who foresee little change (or as others might say, stagnation) after Broadsword takes over, this may come to pass for SWTOR as well.

Its not change I fear; its effectively the game in maintenance mode.  SWTOR is about the story.  Unfortunately there is only so many times you can play the same story before you say "well I'm done".  And this isn't like NWN where you can Min-Max for humorous conclusions like "the STR 3 / CON 3 barbarian that talks their way out of every fight because they will die almost immediately" parody that you can get for cheap entertainment in some games.  So if no more story growth, the game will eventually wither over time and people simply just get bored playing the same game over and over.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Blakinik
typos - gee like I never make typos *rolls eyes*

[fabsus]

11 hours ago, Traceguy said:

Star Wars is still an IP owned by Disney, and EA still holds publishing rights for games. I don't see how taking SWTOR away from Bioware means random companies can make Star Wars MMOs now.

in the past there was an interview about a similar topic and he said, that broadsword is just a service provider to maintain and run the games, but all rights remain on ea. i think it will be the same with swtor. 

[Blakinik]

4 minutes ago, fabsus said:

in the past there was an interview about a similar topic and he said, that broadsword is just a service provider to maintain and run the games, but all rights remain on ea. i think it will be the same with swtor. 

So if I understand (in my odd own way) what you just said it is this:

"SWTOR IS still an EA game "powered" (to use that internet lingo and marketing fluff) by Broadsword"

I still have my question how Broadsword doesn't have a track record of this type of MMO nor one of this size is going to be able to run it. Now if they are effectively taking Bioware Austin and converting it too Broadsword Austin and giving them the right to run and manage the game as they deem fit, I would have a warm fuzzy.  But that hasn't been communicated yet.

Yet, somehow in my mind I keep thinking this is what is going to happen for some reason the more and more I post in the forums.

[emilydeylan]

7 hours ago, jedimasterjac said:

It’s really not unbelievable. 
 

the base game had 800 staffers prior to release:

 

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-the-old-republic-cost-200-million-to-develop/1100-6348959/#:~:text=New report recounts creation of,to bring game to market.

WoW has several hundred:

 

https://www.laptopmag.com/news/wow-plans-to-add-100-new-staff-members-via-blizzard-acquisition-what-does-this-mean-for-dragonflight

 

we can split hairs over the use of “developer” (the article is probably conflating developers and all FT staff) but the reality is 80 people on the team is not unrealistic  

 

 

Yeah you also gotta remember that server technician, coffee boy, and community manager can all fall under the umbrella of "developer" 

[fabsus]

30 minutes ago, Blakinik said:

So if I understand (in my odd own way) what you just said it is this:

"SWTOR IS still an EA game "powered" (to use that internet lingo and marketing fluff) by Broadsword"

I still have my question how Broadsword doesn't have a track record of this type of MMO nor one of this size is going to be able to run it. Now if they are effectively taking Bioware Austin and converting it too Broadsword Austin and giving them the right to run and manage the game as they deem fit, I would have a warm fuzzy.  But that hasn't been communicated yet.

Yet, somehow in my mind I keep thinking this is what is going to happen for some reason the more and more I post in the forums.

i mean they did not finalized how and when swtor is transfered to Broadsword or a different company. but in the past the founder of Broadsword said in an interview, that the company was founded exactly for that case, to run and maintain third party games, but that all the rights remain on the former company, so ea. but he also said, that Broadsword isn't run by EA and that they are completly on their own. (and that is really painfull if you wanna add new content, but have to get clearence from ea and disney)

i expect that there will be a timeframe when Bioware and Broadsword will work hand in hand, to solve major issues with the shift to Broadsword, but when it is done, they run the game on their own responsibility and it will be the same like with the other games. so they will reset servers, clean logs, do some customer support and run the events in a loop, until even with more flexible server structures and costs, the service can't be paid anymore. 

but i won't expect any expensive investments, like voice actors or future support of 3 languages;
all the stuff we loved swtor for. 

time will tell, but move swtor to a company known as the dead end of games, is nothing you could be happy about.

Edited June 8, 2023 by fabsus

[LEEscoundral]

12 hours ago, KeithKanneg said:

Whoa whoa everyone... I was hoping me telling you about the upcoming releases would help you understand this is a new beginning, not the end.

We have more stories, modernizations, and MMO content already being planned out beyond 7.4.  While details are being discussed and finalized behind the scenes, let's not spin this into incorrect theories.  I am asking you to hang tight and we'll follow up later with more details when we can.

-Keith

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of nerds suddenly unsubbed in terror.. the spin did not remain silent.. I fear something terrible has happened."

[jedimasterjac]

4 hours ago, Blakinik said:

4 hours ago, fabsus said:

 

So if I understand (in my odd own way) what you just said it is this:

"SWTOR IS still an EA game "powered" (to use that internet lingo and marketing fluff) by Broadsword"

It’s the publisher/developer relationship. EA publishes the game (and gets their cut) and that won’t change. 

[codydmaan]

Swtor, you should release a public statement today. 

I beleive all the players here deserve one.