Every time I see black bars silent conversation I want to quit

[albeva]

The most amazing part of Swtor is the fully-voiced quest lines. This is what drew me in; this is what has me returning to the game. Whenever I see these black bars when talking with Lane feels like a slap to everything that SWTOR was good at. It is immersion breaking in a way that I want to rage quit this game. I don't even care what she has to say as I spam random numbers and a spacebar to get through those one-sided monologues that are antithetical to everything good about Swtor.

If you don't have the resources to voice them fully, how about changing how these conversations/info/lore dumps are presented? It feels cheap and unfinished.

Edited May 29, 2023 by albeva

[LanceDefender]

Hmmm, but in KOTOR noone had problem with that...
Hypocrisy here is strong.

I like it. Not as a substitute, but from time to time on lesser story then why not.

[albeva]

15 minutes ago, LanceDefender said:

Hmmm, but in KOTOR noone had problem with that...
Hypocrisy here is strong.

Your point being? This is not KOTOR. (and I have never played it - not that it should matter.)

[Balameb]

1 hour ago, LanceDefender said:

Hmmm, but in KOTOR noone had problem with that...
Hypocrisy here is strong.

Tone it down pal. You are entitled to like it, but call others hypocrits?

1- Not everyone played KOTOR.

2- This game came years later and give a Player Characters Voice and Expressions.

3- KOTOR Black Bars in SWTOR were introduced in 4.0 to save a few bucks and a little time; nothing more, nothing less. Problem is that it delivers a product that is way inferior to its origional that acted/voiced even the tiniest of the side quest.

[xordevoreaux]

OP, don't do what you hate. Life's too short to not spend it pleasantly, and Bioware isn't getting rid of its signature interaction method, which, as mentioned, it employed in other games.

[OlBuzzard]

57 minutes ago, Balameb said:

Tone it down pal. You are entitled to like it, but call others hypocrits?

1- Not everyone played KOTOR.

2- This game came years later and give a Player Characters Voice and Expressions.

3- KOTOR Black Bars in SWTOR were introduced in 4.0 to save a few bucks and a little time; nothing more, nothing less. Problem is that it delivers a product that is way inferior to its origional that acted/voiced even the tiniest of the side quest.

I agree completely! 

Also, IIRC there was a writers strike somewhere in there as well (which also affected other related guilds/unions in the industry).  For whatever it's worth I've never played the other game either!  I have no plans to do so!  I also understand the tremendous connection that many here in SWTOR have to that game.  Many of us DON'T!  I'm one of them!  If that older format was what was used... I personally find it annoying!  I also agree that it tends to set the game backwards in development techniques.  Yes, it saves a lot of money! (This is the real reason we essentially no longer have any real connection to our companions ...  you can buy them on the all important and all mighty CM.)

I also seen another side:  IMO ... both OP and the response are at extremes of the same coin.  Both need to see an appreciation of the past (KOTOR) and understand the significance of a better developed style of presentation as did SWTOR.

Edited May 29, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[eabevella]

55 minutes ago, Balameb said:

Tone it down pal. You are entitled to like it, but call others hypocrits?

1- Not everyone played KOTOR.

2- This game came years later and give a Player Characters Voice and Expressions.

3- KOTOR Black Bars in SWTOR were introduced in 4.0 to save a few bucks and a little time; nothing more, nothing less. Problem is that it delivers a product that is way inferior to its origional that acted/voiced even the tiniest of the side quest.

Well said.

[elimatorxv]

it is jarring to go from fully voiced over to this kotor style

i liked it in kotor 1 and 2 but not here.

its not enough to make me quit but i do spacebar through it all

[Ardrossan]

Compare the vanilla version of this game: You accept a quest from a cat lady on ord mantell which has a DS/LS choice attached. When you're done speaking to her you can click her sprite and she'll have another line of dialogue (1), often a recap of the quest (bioware seemed to think players had goldfish memories or something). Once you finish the quest you can either go back to her or a different guy (LS/DS), and whoever you go back to will have another dialogue line, usually to thank you (2). Then if you so choose, you can go back to the other questgiver who you didn't hand in the quest, click on their sprite...and they have something else to say (3). 

 All quests from 1-50 have at least 1 and 2 extra lines of dialogue. Most quests from Illum to Yavin IV also have these extra lines. They stopped doing them in KOTFE, which is where they introduced the KOTOR-style dialogues, yet another reason to hate those expansions imo. 

[Tentou]

This dev team needs to get on the AI voice bandwagon. I get it, the voice actors from the original class stories are long gone, but you should have enough rights in their contracts to replicate their voices for future content. Skyrim mods are taking off with this and ChatGPT, introducing huge voiced conversations with traditional NPCS. I'm sure the SWTOR devs could figure out how to implement something similar. 

[SteveTheCynic]

1 hour ago, Tentou said:

I get it, the voice actors from the original class stories are long gone, but you should have enough rights in their contracts to replicate their voices for future content.

No, the original *player character* voice actors are not long gone.  They still record dialogue with e.g. Lana or Jekiah or Shae or ...

And no, they wouldn't have offered those rights in the original contracts back in 2010/2011, because "generating speech with AI" wasn't a thing back then.

3 hours ago, Balameb said:

KOTOR Black Bars in SWTOR were introduced in 4.0 to save a few bucks and a little time; nothing more, nothing less.

Whatever the original motivation was, I'd note that:

• The KOTOR style dialogues include the ability to have far more than just three choices in a dialogue point.  The most I've seen is one point in Qyzen Fess's recruitment alert, I think the reputation turn-in dialogue, which offers 17 different choices.
• They said something about a homage to KOTOR when they announced it back just before 4.0 launched.

That said, however, I do think it's odd that the conversations with Lane are KOTOR-style.

EDIT: but not odd enough to quit over.

Edited May 29, 2023 by SteveTheCynic

[LD_Little_Dragon]

I find it more immersion breaking to not see the lines your character will say before you click that dialogue wheel.

Otherwise I don't really have a stake in this since I have poor hearing and don't bother using sound at all for the game.

The Kotor style dialogues are just more story to me.  If we get a bit more because bioware saves on the voice acting then I'm fine with that.

Better to have silent kotor style dialogues, then to have none at all.

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, Balameb said:

KOTOR Black Bars in SWTOR were introduced in 4.0 to save a few bucks and a little time; nothing more, nothing less. Problem is that it delivers a product that is way inferior to its origional that acted/voiced even the tiniest of the side quest.

You sort of got it right. 

My understanding is the black bars were added because during the development of that part of the game there was a voice actors strike happening in the industry. Like how there’s a writers strike happening in Hollywood at the moment. So they were unable to get them to voice those parts at the time. And instead of delaying the particular expansion that was due, they used this method to get around it 

[Stradlin]

It is what it is.  It takes work of 48 different actors!(!!!!) to have player char say a single word. Imagine what an incredible money sink it is for an older mmo no longer at front and cenrer of EA moneystreams. Voiced player chars prolly take lion's share of cash EA has earmarked for SWTOR. All that money gets you like 10 mins of dialogue a year.   

Either they produce hardly any new content involving playerchar interacting, or they think of ways to go around the issue. 

 

I've never read a book  or a magazine that'd be ruined due to my inability to hear the words.

 

 

Generally speaking, playerchar feels like it has life of its own when dialogue isn't fully VA'd. That way, I often get the  impression/illusion  of it truly  being my char. When playerchar is fully voiced by Jennifer Hale, it is her character, not mine. 

 

For me, lots of genuinely different options/reactions that are not written to full sentences is the most immersive way(DA:O)  

Fully fleshed out  and voice acted scripts of playerchar dialogue tend to take a little bit away from my "claim" to ownership of the playerchar.  It becomes less of a video game character of mine own and more of a person doing some poorly directed talk show on tv.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Stradlin

[albeva]

23 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

It takes work of 48 different actors!(!!!!) to have player char say a single word. Imagine what an incredible money sink it is for an older mmo no longer at front and cenrer of EA moneystreams.

I am paying for the sub; I'd happily pay for proper expansions. There are many ways in which lore or missions could be given to the player which would not involve these awkward one-sided monologues. This really takes me out of the normal game flow. These black bars and one-sided conversations are the worst and not in line with how the rest of the game works. It feels lazy, cheap and incomplete.

 

23 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

For me, lots of genuinely different options/reactions that are not written to full sentences is the most immersive way(DA:O)  

To each their own. No one right or wrong way to enjoy the game. For me, SWTOR is about voice-acted story content.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by albeva

[eabevella]

If SWTOR don't have the main characters voice acted, I'd unsub the moment they do that.

[albeva]

42 minutes ago, eabevella said:

If SWTOR don't have the main characters voice acted, I'd unsub the moment they do that.

I would have unsubbed in 2012 and forgotten the game existed by now.

[afwhoefuwov]

Agreed.  Kotor style convo feels cheap for a game such as Swtor.  I spent 15 bucks per month for this? 

[DarthCasus]

We've been spoiled lol I don't mind it, though it does throw me for a loop when they decide to implement it here but not there. Like for the new GS companions, it was a surprise to see it back but I'm not sure what I'd get out of having my characters speak as well. I'd spacebar after the first time and half the talking is coming via alien language. If this is a cost saving measure, its definitely being used appropriately since the main content is still receiving the full VA treatment. 

If it makes you quit, it makes you quit. But its a very minor thing to quit over when there's more than hundreds of hours of VA everywhere else ingame. 

[MarkFranz]

You may don't like lack of voice acting, but black boxes is allow better roleplay due more dialogue choices, seeing what you about to say, etc. Which is in my opinion perfect for side story and low importance content. I would prefer main story being fully voiced, but for me - more variety in dialogue always be more desirable.

[Khoxion]

As a warhammer online fan, i would trade all voice acting for borderline working mass PvP in the open world, if that was an option.

[sharpenedstick]

Fully voicing this game is why there will never be another class added to it, unless that class operates in its own zone and doesn't interact with the rest of the planetary stories. We may get an advanced class some day (doubtful after 10+ years), but they aren't going to pay to voice a new character going through the entire story.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

On 5/29/2023 at 6:58 AM, albeva said:

Your point being? This is not KOTOR. (and I have never played it - not that it should matter.)

You didn't miss anything. It was stupid as hell anyways.

[eabevella]

7 hours ago, sharpenedstick said:

Fully voicing this game is why there will never be another class added to it, unless that class operates in its own zone and doesn't interact with the rest of the planetary stories. We may get an advanced class some day (doubtful after 10+ years), but they aren't going to pay to voice a new character going through the entire story.

"Class" as "Origin Story": you think the reason BW won't make a new origin story is because the VA and not the amount of efforts and resources they have to write/code into the vanilla contents that they certainly don't have now? Please, VA is the least complex and potentially game breaking thing of all the works needed to be done in order to make a new Origin Story. BW won't make a new origin story even if this game was not fully VAed in the beginning. They won't touch vanilla content in such a fundamental basis, period.

"Class" as "Combat Style": has nothing to do with VA since Combat Style is detached from Origin Story now. The only thing stops BW from making a new CS is technical issue like mirror classes, balance, etc.

Edited May 31, 2023 by eabevella

[Stradlin]

1 hour ago, eabevella said:

"Class" as "Origin Story": you think the reason BW won't make a new origin story is because the VA and not the amount of efforts and resources they have to write/code into the vanilla contents that they certainly don't have now? Please, VA is the least complex and potentially game breaking thing of all the works needed to be done in order to make a new Origin Story. BW won't make a new origin story even if this game was not fully VAed in the beginning. They won't touch vanilla content in such a fundamental basis, period.

"Class" as "Combat Style": has nothing to do with VA since Combat Style is detached from Origin Story now. The only thing stops BW from making a new CS is technical issue like mirror classes, balance, etc.

 

There's  absolutely nothing in vanilla content so tight that cramming in few more class stories would be somehow difficult or game breaking.  When it comes to SWTOR and its main storylines, game was build to be extremely modular and instanced. From POV of game mechanics, class stories are 100 voice acted bits of dialogue in 100 instanced, isolated  rooms.  Complimented  by 100 trivial fights against mobs, bosses in 100 other instanced rooms. If we assume they'd add only one class with  familiar male/female VA options, that'd amount to hiring six more voice actors for player char alone. Throw in all the minor parts of all the  NPCs, companions and so on.  Costly and difficult. Certainly much more so than making  tiny, instanced  rooms is.

There's no need to make new zones, new planets, new textures  or anything like that. Or even new rooms. Ofc new class story would only  naturally end up morphed in zones that are already there. Hutt Gangster -class would easily go from start to finish by visiting planets that have been present in  game for 10+ years.

 

Dififculty of class stories being what it is, there is no combat mechanics of mobs/bosses of any kind to consider. When it comes to actual gameplay outside of dialogue, no fight in SWTOR vanilla storylines is truly memorable, so they're free of hurdles such as figuring out what this sith lord or that would actually do during combat. They stand there and swing their blade til they die 20 seconds later is what they do.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Stradlin