Nerf R-4 Anomaly IP-CPT and Lady Dominique SM again

[MotherCrusher]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

That is one of the things however. Most people running Story Mode Ops aren't doing it for a fun challenge, they're doing it for frags or gear. Those that think challenges are fun, are running harder difficulty not Story Mode. I personally seldom bother with story mode raids because I do find them boring, however most people do them for other reasons. Put the difficulty back to what it was and those people farming them for frags (or gear) will do other things instead. This means LESS people actually doing story Mode Ops. This is not a good thing for the game.

this is why i keep saying we need a middle ground between SM and VM, but we know that won't happen so here we are...

[DeannaVoyager]

14 hours ago, CaptainZiv said:

Sorry I didn't know that, I just thought you got carried because you only done R-4 Anomaly once on story mode, how was I supposed to know you did it on HM...

You shouldn't be apologizing to someone just because he says he has a lot of cheevos. Having a lot of cheevos and being right are two different things.  Having 100% ops cheevos and getting carried are not exclusive either. Those achievements can be bought.

[Toraak]

13 hours ago, MotherCrusher said:

this is why i keep saying we need a middle ground between SM and VM, but we know that won't happen so here we are...

Oh I have no issues with a middle ground. Make Story Mode the LFR of swtor, and have Normal Mode, HM, and NIM. I'd be fine for that. I still don't think many would be doing normal mode, but I have no issues with it as an option.

 

 

[xxSHOONYxx]

7 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

You shouldn't be apologizing to someone just because he says he has a lot of cheevos. Having a lot of cheevos and being right are two different things.  Having 100% ops cheevos and getting carried are not exclusive either. Those achievements can be bought.

I felt so good when i was carried to true anomaly on week one before the nerfs where 99.9% of people said ip-cpt on hm before the nerfs with 330 gear was impossible to do. I have to be honest though, had my doubts when i saw parse and i was the highest dps on my groups.

The funny thing is when i got my sm achievements i go them on a sale run, i had no idea sm r4 droped hypercrates  

Edited September 27, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[xxSHOONYxx]

16 hours ago, Toraak said:

That is one of the things however. Most people running Story Mode Ops aren't doing it for a fun challenge, they're doing it for frags or gear. Those that think challenges are fun, are running harder difficulty not Story Mode. I personally seldom bother with story mode raids because I do find them boring, however most people do them for other reasons. Put the difficulty back to what it was and those people farming them for frags (or gear) will do other things instead. This means LESS people actually doing story Mode Ops. This is not a good thing for the game.

Fun and challenge are two different things, everything a game has should be aimed at being fun. Sm ops are not aimed at being fun but tedious. Not like legacy sm mechanics were super punishing either but they made you have to do something other than kill a dummy.

I simply don't believe making something fun (or at least not something braid dead boring) again and adding replayability will reduce the amount of people doing sm ops. To me it will increase and will make those players more ready for other parts of the game and even make mm fps more of a thing, even with them being totally useless in terms of rewards

[CaptainZiv]

9 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

You shouldn't be apologizing to someone just because he says he has a lot of cheevos. Having a lot of cheevos and being right are two different things.  Having 100% ops cheevos and getting carried are not exclusive either. Those achievements can be bought.

Guess you're right.... next time I'll think twice before I apologize to someone, anyway I'm done here.

[ZUHFB]

On 9/27/2023 at 10:27 AM, DeannaVoyager said:

You shouldn't be apologizing to someone just because he says he has a lot of cheevos. Having a lot of cheevos and being right are two different things.  Having 100% ops cheevos and getting carried are not exclusive either. Those achievements can be bought.

if you'd have read what he wrote then you would've come to the conclusion that buying true anomaly week 1 seems unlikely - but thats just my opinion, you can of course keep your wrong opinion

[DeannaVoyager]

2 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

if you'd have read what he wrote then you would've come to the conclusion that buying true anomaly week 1 seems unlikely - but thats just my opinion, you can of course keep your wrong opinion

Opinions are not a matter of wrong or right. They are opinions. You should know better. 

[ZUHFB]

14 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Opinions are not a matter of wrong or right. They are opinions. You should know better. 

At least you ignored my argument, thats something i guess

[SteelieCZ]

I'm curious, what were the removed mechanics from story mode ops? I don't expect anyone to write down a list but I assume it's more than just removing dps checks, as that is still hitting a big training dummy except faster.

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 hour ago, SteelieCZ said:

I'm curious, what were the removed mechanics from story mode ops? I don't expect anyone to write down a list but I assume it's more than just removing dps checks, as that is still hitting a big training dummy except faster.

EV

No adds on first boss.
Ancient pylon teleports you after is done
Soa has a marker for where the pylon falls

KP

Jarg and Sorno have no enrage when one dies
Foreman crusher frenzy is much shorter
No puzzle on fabricator droid
Karagga drops less oil puddles

EC

As with jarg and sorno no enrage when one dies on zorn and toth, no jumping to other boss
No incinerate armor or double destruction on tanks
Longer spawn time of trandoshan packs in kephess. No Savage arcing assault-tank swap, no pull on gift of the masters, no breath of the masters

TfB

Kephess does not shoot the laser on the first 50%
No Tank swap on scream at terror

DF

No puzzle before draxus
Subteroth do not explode when killed
No bulkwarks on draxus
No antigravity aoe on corruptor zero

DP

No final phase in calphy
No crystals in dread council, they stay up for a very long time when pushed first phase
Brontes doesn't do her clock phase.

Rav ToS Gods and Dxun were subsequently nerfed too later on. Plus health nerfs of adds and bosses.
Other mechanics are still there, they just do negligible damage so practically also "deleted". So now you have training dummies with different skins and shorter ttk in so put everyhing together having anything else than 7 dps and 1 heal is being inefficient, and the hardest part about sm ops is not falling asleep

Edited September 29, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[LD_Little_Dragon]

2 hours ago, SteelieCZ said:

I'm curious, what were the removed mechanics from story mode ops? I don't expect anyone to write down a list but I assume it's more than just removing dps checks, as that is still hitting a big training dummy except faster.

Some simplification is fine, but they went way too far with the nerfs.  It's not only the removal of some mechanics, but you can also just ignore aoe and just basically dummy parse on bosses.

Even something as easy as KP veteran mode can end up wiping on the first boss in pugs if you get too many players who don't know the mechanics.  Too many players can't even manage 'stay behind the boss unless you're targeted by him'.

Story mode being easy is one thing, players getting used to just eating boss cleaves, using no defenses, and standing in aoe because moving  or hitting a dcd might hurt their dps is simply bad. 

[SteelieCZ]

Interesting. I've only started playing ops mid-july this year, so I guess I missed out on quite a lot of stuff. I'd prefer running vet ops but no one really likes to pug those (and when they do they generally demand a chieve for it). Guilding isn't my thing, tried it once, got nothing out of it, hated the vc, so that's not a way I'd prefer playing it.

Re-adding the mechanics into story ops would liven it up, as I've mostly stopped playing as DPS since healing them is more interesting. But it is a double-edged sword. Easy may be boring, but it is comfortable and most annoyingly so, efficient. Making story ops more difficult might make people play them less, but it's hard to judge from an armchair like this.

Edited September 29, 2023 by SteelieCZ

[xxSHOONYxx]

46 minutes ago, SteelieCZ said:

Interesting. I've only started playing ops mid-july this year, so I guess I missed out on quite a lot of stuff. I'd prefer running vet ops but no one really likes to pug those (and when they do they generally demand a chieve for it). Guilding isn't my thing, tried it once, got nothing out of it, hated the vc, so that's not a way I'd prefer playing it.

Re-adding the mechanics into story ops would liven it up, as I've mostly stopped playing as DPS since healing them is more interesting. But it is a double-edged sword. Easy may be boring, but it is comfortable and most annoyingly so, efficient. Making story ops more difficult might make people play them less, but it's hard to judge from an armchair like this.

Maybe it is a double edge sword since no one has the truth of the outcome if it's changed back. But it also needs to be taken into consideration how bad the transition from sm to hm is made because of it and the system it's failing right now too as it is. 

And it fails people as you, new to the game/ops and the jump from sm no mechanic to hm like you want is hard/impossible because you were not taught how to properly play. Older players just don't want to go through the hassle of queuing fps with randoms or doing hm pugs on fleet because they know the average skill level of the new players that has been brought up by this system and when hm/nim pugs happen they ask for achievements.

This system drains the life out of ops, on one had you have the most experienced players leaving the game because of no new ops/canceled ops/slow drip of content, and on the other hand you have new players unable to grow in skill and go from sm to hm because of skill gap between fall asleep mode and hard mode and those that are already doing hm are not welcoming to new players because they have seen the average skill level of new players.

But bioware had always been VERY questionable with their decisions when it came to group content, ev and kp nim keeping the nim "dps/heal" levels would have been also a great introduction for new players into nim and get their feet wet, yet it was taken away on 4.0.

 

Out o curiosity though, why guilds/vc did not work for you?

[SteelieCZ]

36 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Out o curiosity though, why guilds/vc did not work for you?

I'm antisocial, and it made me uncomfortable. This is still a videogame and I prefer when my games don't make me anxious.

Granted I imagine it's important for the hardest content, but I draw a hard line at NiM ops anyway. That's the kinda stuff for hardcore raiders and I consider myself a midpoint between casual and hardcore. I want to try HM ops, but I'm not interested in anything beyond. And I know HM ops are very well doable in a pug without VC, as I've been part of HM EC and TfB groups before, followed mechanics to the letter and always close to the top of the parse.

I'd consider myself an above average player but it's not my business trying to explain that to random pugs. I probably miss out on many an evening of running veteran content this way but to each their own, it's not the only thing in my life.

[DeannaVoyager]

12 hours ago, SteelieCZ said:

I'm antisocial, and it made me uncomfortable. This is still a videogame and I prefer when my games don't make me anxious.

You don't have to be social to join voice chat, a lot of people are in voice and they never speak. But it's so much easier for the raid leader to explain the fight (if there is something to explain) and call out stuff during the fight than typing it all in the ops chat. 

 

The only downside of voice chat I can think of is that some people use it for chit chat, they'll just never shut up. But you can mute them (I've done that many many times). You only really need to hear the raid leader and maybe some other people who call out stuff. Being social is not required at all. 

 

 

[xxSHOONYxx]

On 9/26/2023 at 7:09 PM, Toraak said:

That is one of the things however. Most people running Story Mode Ops aren't doing it for a fun challenge, they're doing it for frags or gear. Those that think challenges are fun, are running harder difficulty not Story Mode. I personally seldom bother with story mode raids because I do find them boring, however most people do them for other reasons. Put the difficulty back to what it was and those people farming them for frags (or gear) will do other things instead. This means LESS people actually doing story Mode Ops. This is not a good thing for the game.

Different game, but here is a video from ff14 talking about the same issue this game has with ops and tries to sees it from different opposites of the "skill ladder".
https://youtu.be/j2-CV9cKC1s?si=NS8uAK_bEnd4GycM&t=428

[mdtk]

So after killing Dom SM on Shae Viszla with no augments and average group gear of 330ish the heal and dps checks are totally fine.  Only slight issue I could see is recursive for lower mechanically skilled players but then you have to ask how easy you want a raid to really be.

Edited November 24, 2023 by mdtk