Nerf R-4 Anomaly IP-CPT and Lady Dominique SM again

[xxSHOONYxx]

On 9/23/2023 at 11:48 AM, Toraak said:

Your talking more about Prog for that then casual raiding. Earning a boss kill is enjoyable for those that want challenge for sure. However we have harder difficulty options for us. No need for that for Storymode, especially since BW/BS has continually made the game more casual friendly ever since 4.0 by dumbing down the game.

 

The days of the Star Wars story players being expected to learn classes like the rest of us more progressive raiders is long gone. Because of this they never should have had the difficulty of R-4 as it currently is. For HM/NiM yes, for Storymode no. Also the days of having a week lockout to help clear storymode Ops is also long gone (this is also a really good reason why they need to nerf R-4 some. At least Lady Dom).

No, casual raiding. My first guild had signups for ops, they were 16 man and whomever signed up first got to go. Was not a fixed group or anything close to progression because even then the average player on terms of skill is miles ahead of the average player now. I still remember the awe i had when i first experienced the ops for the first time and how awesome and different to the story/heroics/fps were to ops. Now everything in the game is just a bland mix of the same things with less or more people at your side. Dps and heal checks were still easy back then but sm had mechanics that helped to keep fights entertaining even when number requirements were a joke (as they should be for the easiest op).

On one of the breaks i took from the game don't remember if it was 4.0 or 5.0 and came back to see because i missed the times i had running ops and hanging out with friends, joined a snv sm pug on fleet just to see every mechanic on sm wiped away and my excitement from the game and thinking about all the good times i had went from 100 to 0 and i had to force myself to finish the op so i wouldn't leave the group because i never had such boredom on the game before, after that op i did not log again until friends told me how awesome Gods from the machine was. 

And you can see how bad the average player is now on ec when minefield is something you can't really delete the mechanics or you have no fight. A fight as easy as that and you still have the average player dying or wiping the group on sm. And if things are too easy they get too boring and an activity that is boring as a recurring endgame activity which is even paywalled under a subscription is an awful game designe and is like asking people to get bored at the game you make and asking them to leave. 
If people are having issues with r4 sm (which i still have no idea what is hard about it, is it recursive blast? because dps and heal checks are not a thing) is because they don't know the correct mechanics or because the game did not teach the person how to play to an adequate level of skill through the leveling progress.

Sm needs to be enjoyable too and give a step into the next level of skill or the chain is broken and the people that would like to go through it run at walls they are hard to go through, any boss with no mechanics is not something to be enjoyed and teaches nothing. There are huge gaps in skill between the process of this game that unless you came from another game that taught you how to play an mmo or someone personally taught you, you have no idea how to progress. R4 sm is a part of the link that was missing between the godawful legacy sm and hm raids. Yet there is still a gap in between legacy sm and gods and r4 sm because they deleted every single mechanics of legacy ops and then two ops in gods and r4 that are heavier on mechanics (even if sm legacy mechanics were not deleted) but not in numbers. Dumbing down r4 sm even more to the level of the others would make it even less accessible to new people to go from sm to hm. 
Severe the link between sm and hm even more and hm and nim ops will be dead because practically no one will come up from sm to hm, especially after the majority of nim population already left after r4 nim cancelled.
 

[Toraak]

The reason for the gap has more to do with the dumbing down of the story content when 4.0 came out (when level sync was introduced). Back before 4.0 when leveling you still had to know how to interuppt/stun, move out of stupid when leveling. This is when the dumbing down happened. 

 

Now the players just AoE everything down when leveling. If BW had never done the level sync the skill of the average player would be much higher then it is now. With that being said the dumbing down of the game happened a very long time ago, and now the average player actually needs the Story Ops to be as dumbed down as the rest of the game. It's far to late now to put in harder difficulty into a Story mode raid which everyone should have the right to complete relatively easily. Because of this yes they need to either A) remove the level sync and go back to the old school leveling so people have to learn interuppts and mechanics or B) keep all story mode Ops easy for everyone to complete.

 

And lets be truthful here. They will never remove level sync now, so the dumbing down on all SM Ops should happen. HM/NiM are fine as they are.

[CaptainZiv]

On 9/23/2023 at 10:00 AM, xxSHOONYxx said:

 

 

What is hard about it? Actually curious. 

what's hard is the DPS check on IP-CPT and Lady Dominique SM, against IP-CPT SM when the boss reach about 25-30% health there is a 60 seconds timer so you have only 60 seconds to kill the boss before it explodes and kills the entire group, against Lady Dominique there is also a DPS check when Lady Dominique reach to 23% Health she summons a swarm of monsters and this is the burn phase, now every DPS Player need to do at least 20K DPS against her before the monsters overwhelm you, now most players can't do 20K DPS against her let alone against a dummy, that's why I always run this operation with my DPS players except for a few times when I ran it with my healer or my Tank, there are the Recursive blasts which knock back players too. 

and that's why R-4 Anomaly on SM is hard.

[MotherCrusher]

5 hours ago, CaptainZiv said:

what's hard is the DPS check on IP-CPT and Lady Dominique SM, against IP-CPT SM when the boss reach about 25-30% health there is a 60 seconds timer so you have only 60 seconds to kill the boss before it explodes and kills the entire group, against Lady Dominique there is also a DPS check when Lady Dominique reach to 23% Health she summons a swarm of monsters and this is the burn phase, now every DPS Player need to do at least 20K DPS against her before the monsters overwhelm you, now most players can't do 20K DPS against her let alone against a dummy, that's why I always run this operation with my DPS players except for a few times when I ran it with my healer or my Tank, there are the Recursive blasts which knock back players too. 

and that's why R-4 Anomaly on SM is hard.

if people can't beat the 60 seconds wipe timer on IP-CPT, they need to stop playing ops and go actually learn their class instead of expecting to get carried. its one of the easiest DPS checks i have seen.

learning how to do 20k dps on a dummy takes a single google search and a few minutes of practice....

as stated above, for the love of stop wanting everything to get dumbed down.

[Bigfallenstar]

2 hours ago, MotherCrusher said:

if people can't beat the 60 seconds wipe timer on IP-CPT, they need to stop playing ops and go actually learn their class instead of expecting to get carried. its one of the easiest DPS checks i have seen.

learning how to do 20k dps on a dummy takes a single google search and a few minutes of practice....

as stated above, for the love of stop wanting everything to get dumbed down.

Yeah, because wiping 10+ times on the same boss with unneeded mechanics just to satisfy the people who want Dark Souls level of difficulty, and harp on about the average player skill, is the perfect definition of what a ops should be. How about doing a NIM ops if you want wild mechanics and skill checks?

[xxSHOONYxx]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:58 PM, Toraak said:

The reason for the gap has more to do with the dumbing down of the story content when 4.0 came out (when level sync was introduced). Back before 4.0 when leveling you still had to know how to interuppt/stun, move out of stupid when leveling. This is when the dumbing down happened. 

Not entirely, there is a reason prog groups on hm and nim follow a path and don't start for lets say, gods nim first. all hm and all nim don't have the same difficulty, same thing happened for sm, yet now with every sm but 2 or 3 removing all the mechanics the progression is not there anymore. Re adding every mechanic on sm ops will help the progress of new players and widen the pool of people that do fps and ops. 
 

9 hours ago, CaptainZiv said:

what's hard is the DPS check on IP-CPT and Lady Dominique SM, against IP-CPT SM when the boss reach about 25-30% health there is a 60 seconds timer so you have only 60 seconds to kill the boss before it explodes and kills the entire group, against Lady Dominique there is also a DPS check when Lady Dominique reach to 23% Health she summons a swarm of monsters and this is the burn phase, now every DPS Player need to do at least 20K DPS against her before the monsters overwhelm you, now most players can't do 20K DPS against her let alone against a dummy, that's why I always run this operation with my DPS players except for a few times when I ran it with my healer or my Tank, there are the Recursive blasts which knock back players too. 

and that's why R-4 Anomaly on SM is hard.

Only did r4 sm once just for the achievement but the enrage on ip-cpt didn't seem hard. Boss kept shielded all the time because it was being pushed too fast for the fight. 
Dominique unless they changed it since i did it you can push the adds off the platform so the adds don't become much of an issue.

 

44 minutes ago, Bigfallenstar said:

Yeah, because wiping 10+ times on the same boss with unneeded mechanics just to satisfy the people who want Dark Souls level of difficulty, and harp on about the average player skill, is the perfect definition of what a ops should be. How about doing a NIM ops if you want wild mechanics and skill checks?

Unneeded mechanics? r4 sm is dark souls level of difficulty?? 

[Toraak]

Putting all of the old mechanics back in won't bring new people into raids. Most people running Story Mode Ops are only doing it for Tech Frags. If you put in all of the old mechanics and have the difficulty to what they used to be many people that Frag Farm would most likely stop doing even story modes. They aren't there for Challenge whatsoever.

 

Keeping the balance relatively the same for all Story Mode Ops would mean more people actually run the new Operation. I suspect (I have no proof) that R-4 is most likely run by far less people then all of the other Story Mode raids out there, and that's probably because it is not balanced like other sm Ops.

 

Those of us that want challenge will do HM. You can still start people on easier HM's if they decide to try for more challenging content. Story Mode isn't about progression anymore. It hasn't been in many years. If your into Progression raiding you do it once, get the achievements and move into HM/NiM after. No need for us to have R-4 balanced in a way that the casuals can't beat it.

[ZUHFB]

 

11 hours ago, CaptainZiv said:

what's hard is the DPS check on IP-CPT and Lady Dominique SM, against IP-CPT SM when the boss reach about 25-30% health there is a 60 seconds timer so you have only 60 seconds to kill the boss before it explodes and kills the entire group, against Lady Dominique there is also a DPS check when Lady Dominique reach to 23% Health she summons a swarm of monsters and this is the burn phase, now every DPS Player need to do at least 20K DPS against her before the monsters overwhelm you, now most players can't do 20K DPS against her let alone against a dummy, that's why I always run this operation with my DPS players except for a few times when I ran it with my healer or my Tank, there are the Recursive blasts which knock back players too. 

and that's why R-4 Anomaly on SM is hard.

but that doesn't make the operation hard? not being able to play a class is a seperate issue, 20k dps is terrible

[MotherCrusher]

7 hours ago, Bigfallenstar said:

Yeah, because wiping 10+ times on the same boss with unneeded mechanics just to satisfy the people who want Dark Souls level of difficulty, and harp on about the average player skill, is the perfect definition of what a ops should be. How about doing a NIM ops if you want wild mechanics and skill checks?

R4 and dark souls? LOL

doing below 20K isnt even average player skill, you are *below* average player skill. WAY below if your entire group is doing sub 20k

R4 is literally not even close to being "hard" it just requires more than simply pressing random buttons

for the love of god you are exactly the reason why you can now beat story operations by pressing 1 button, as soon as it requires more than hitting random abilities ya'll call it dark souls, and when people point out that you should instead go learn your class, you start arguing and tell us to do a NiM op. Lol.

the game difficulty should not cater to the weakest of players just because they feel entitled to be able to beat it with 0 effort. Suck it up and learn your class.

[MotherCrusher]

5 hours ago, Toraak said:

Putting all of the old mechanics back in won't bring new people into raids. Most people running Story Mode Ops are only doing it for Tech Frags. If you put in all of the old mechanics and have the difficulty to what they used to be many people that Frag Farm would most likely stop doing even story modes. They aren't there for Challenge whatsoever.

 

Keeping the balance relatively the same for all Story Mode Ops would mean more people actually run the new Operation. I suspect (I have no proof) that R-4 is most likely run by far less people then all of the other Story Mode raids out there, and that's probably because it is not balanced like other sm Ops.

 

Those of us that want challenge will do HM. You can still start people on easier HM's if they decide to try for more challenging content. Story Mode isn't about progression anymore. It hasn't been in many years. If your into Progression raiding you do it once, get the achievements and move into HM/NiM after. No need for us to have R-4 balanced in a way that the casuals can't beat it.

Yes, but at the same time, it shouldnt be to the point where you can literally roflstomp story ops with 10  times the intended damage.

we stomped the dread council so fast that we had to wait for them to get off their thrones...

we absolutely need a middle ground between SM and VM here.

[DeannaVoyager]

The problem with R-4 is that it's part of the story. Anything that's part of the story should be doable by anyone in the game, doesn't matter if they are playing space barbie or role playing: they should be able to complete it.

They could dumb down all the sm mechanics for all I care, the tokens you get from SM are worthless. People who want to do it for the challenge go VM. There is no reason for gatekeeping story content from part of the playerbase. They are paying customers too, and letting them finish the story doesn't take anything away from hardcore raiders.  I've completed it more in VM than SM, and that's mostly because pugging it is a waste of time and raiders are not interested in SM. It's truly a shame that when we finally get a new operation, majority of the playerbase won't get to see it. 

 

10 minutes ago, MotherCrusher said:

we absolutely need a middle ground between SM and VM here.

Yeah, that's so true. SM ops being too easy in general is a problem, but it's probably too late now to do anything about it. If they would add the mechanics back and add some dps checks, the space barbie players would most likely quit. They can't afford to lose their loyal CM customers.

 

 

[MotherCrusher]

1 minute ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

Yeah, that's so true. SM ops being too easy in general is a problem, but it's probably too late now to do anything about it. If they would add the mechanics back and add some dps checks, the space barbie players would most likely quit. They can't afford to lose their loyal CM customers.

 

 

i think the problem isnt necessarily mechanics, but that we are simply too powerful at the moment. World mobs from 7.0 have 4 times the health of vet flashpoint mobs and you're fighting those alone, and they only feel "fair" to fight in really good gear. i pity people who fight these with basic story gear, to be honest.

but the old content is simply not balanced with this powerful gear in mind. We did several master fps with 1 tank and me as a DD, with 2 healer companions. I could carry each one of them damage wise without hitting enrage or having too much trouble in general. This should not be possible. The only time we needed a damage companion was Malgus in meridian for his burn phase...

[CaptainZiv]

16 hours ago, MotherCrusher said:

if people can't beat the 60 seconds wipe timer on IP-CPT, they need to stop playing ops and go actually learn their class instead of expecting to get carried. its one of the easiest DPS checks i have seen.

learning how to do 20k dps on a dummy takes a single google search and a few minutes of practice....

as stated above, for the love of stop wanting everything to get dumbed down.

So what you want to let players wipe 6+ times on IP-CPT or Lady Dominique and then leave the group ? or worse leave the game ? just because you want some challenge in an SM operation, sorry but that's not how story mode operations work they are supposed to be easy or at least a bit challenging like Gods from the machine or Nature of Progress, without major DPS checks and doable by most players and not just by the top 5% of level 80 players.  

And one final note I have seen DPS players with rotations that can't even scratch the number 20K so keep that in mind.

[CaptainZiv]

13 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

 

Only did r4 sm once just for the achievement but the enrage on ip-cpt didn't seem hard. Boss kept shielded all the time because it was being pushed too fast for the fight. 
Dominique unless they changed it since i did it you can push the adds off the platform so the adds don't become much of an issue.

 

 

Sorry man but it seems you got carried by better players it happened to me a few times too 🙂

[CaptainZiv]

10 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

 

but that doesn't make the operation hard? not being able to play a class is a seperate issue, 20k dps is terrible

Okay first of all 20K DPS is an average number and second I can do over 30K DPS against some bosses, but you got to understand that some players simply can't do those numbers, I have seen players on Youtube and in game who can't even do the average 20K DPS and these are players with rotations mind you. 

how can you expect them to learn to do something they can't do ?

[MotherCrusher]

1 hour ago, CaptainZiv said:

So what you want to let players wipe 6+ times on IP-CPT or Lady Dominique and then leave the group ? or worse leave the game ? just because you want some challenge in an SM operation, sorry but that's not how story mode operations work they are supposed to be easy or at least a bit challenging like Gods from the machine or Nature of Progress, without major DPS checks and doable by most players and not just by the top 5% of level 80 players.  

And one final note I have seen DPS players with rotations that can't even scratch the number 20K so keep that in mind.

who are you to decide what story ops should be?

practically every story op was fking hard when it came out and required effort

hell i remember gods on release

its not like they deliberately balanced them to be easy, they technically never touched them for the most part, but you see this in the entire game - our current gear is too powerful, and 7.0 mobs simply have inflated stats because its "balanced" about the current top equipment. the rest of the game is not.

 

And DPS players with rotations that can't even scratch 20K should not be expecting to get carried by everyone else.

Edited September 26, 2023 by MotherCrusher

[CaptainZiv]

16 minutes ago, MotherCrusher said:

 

 

And DPS players with rotations that can't even scratch 20K should not be expecting to get carried by everyone else.

Then what should they do if they can't get carried ? Never do this operation even on the lowest difficulty ? No I think we should give them a chance to finish this operation on story mode at least by nerfing it again.

Edited September 26, 2023 by CaptainZiv

[MotherCrusher]

19 minutes ago, CaptainZiv said:

Then what should they do if they can't get carried ? Never do this operation even on the lowest difficulty ? No I think we should give them a chance to finish this operation on story mode at least by nerfing it again.

uh... learn their class so they are no longer getting carried?

[Toraak]

47 minutes ago, MotherCrusher said:

who are you to decide what story ops should be?

practically every story op was fking hard when it came out and required effort

hell i remember gods on release

its not like they deliberately balanced them to be easy, they technically never touched them for the most part, but you see this in the entire game - our current gear is too powerful, and 7.0 mobs simply have inflated stats because its "balanced" about the current top equipment. the rest of the game is not.

 

And DPS players with rotations that can't even scratch 20K should not be expecting to get carried by everyone else.

Actually they did intentionally make them easier in 4.0 when they removed most of the mechanics in the fights. Obviously Gods, Dxun, and now R-4 is excluded from that, but that's a BW issue. They purposefully made all the other Ops easy on SM, and they didn't follow suit with the other 3 Operations.

[MotherCrusher]

19 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Actually they did intentionally make them easier in 4.0 when they removed most of the mechanics in the fights. Obviously Gods, Dxun, and now R-4 is excluded from that, but that's a BW issue. They purposefully made all the other Ops easy on SM, and they didn't follow suit with the other 3 Operations.

even after 4.0, story ops required a shred of effort. you couldnt roflstomp the dread council faster than calp even comes off his throne, and then we didnt have an op until gods, so my point stands, they were hard when they came out (and remained more than roflstomps until 7.0)

Edited September 26, 2023 by MotherCrusher

[xxSHOONYxx]

3 hours ago, CaptainZiv said:

Sorry man but it seems you got carried by better players it happened to me a few times too 🙂

i  go carried? lol
i have 100% in ops and the only reason i did sm once is because i did hm before sm, and got my true anomaly on first week.
You seem to be one of those weird people you meet on fps that think they are good and blame others when someone tries o help them

Edited September 26, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[MotherCrusher]

13 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

i  go carried? lol
i have 100% in ops and the only reason i did sm once is because i did hm before sm, and got my true anomaly on first week.
You seem to be one of those weird people you meet on fps that think they are good and blame others when someone tries o help them

to be fair, their whole statement can mean one of 2 things:

admitting they are getting carried, and they want it nerfed so they can feel like they are pulling their weight instead of improving

or they don't understand the word carry

[xxSHOONYxx]

21 hours ago, Toraak said:

Putting all of the old mechanics back in won't bring new people into raids. Most people running Story Mode Ops are only doing it for Tech Frags. If you put in all of the old mechanics and have the difficulty to what they used to be many people that Frag Farm would most likely stop doing even story modes. They aren't there for Challenge whatsoever.

 

Keeping the balance relatively the same for all Story Mode Ops would mean more people actually run the new Operation. I suspect (I have no proof) that R-4 is most likely run by far less people then all of the other Story Mode raids out there, and that's probably because it is not balanced like other sm Ops.

 

Those of us that want challenge will do HM. You can still start people on easier HM's if they decide to try for more challenging content. Story Mode isn't about progression anymore. It hasn't been in many years. If your into Progression raiding you do it once, get the achievements and move into HM/NiM after. No need for us to have R-4 balanced in a way that the casuals can't beat it.

Guess we agree to disagree here. I see no reason right now for people to do sm ops now outside of tech fragments because the sm bosses now are glorified training dummies with different shapes and less ttk than a dummy. The only hard part about a sm op now is not falling asleep while doing it.
If sm ops where fun again, like if they had mechanics, more people would run them.

It probably is run by far less people, same as gods and dxun because they have some mechanics. But the others are not run because they are fun though, they are run for the same reason as why in 6.0 everyone ran hammer station. Fastest way to get gear.

Operations is basically the ONLY thing left under a subscription. It should be a fun recurring activity not having the introduction to it being boring and be able to be done by smashing your head against the keyboard. If people are so worried about story players broadsword can just do like they did for revan in SoR, option to do the op or solo a fight. Put the last boss with 300k hp in a room with no mechanics and kill it, same difficulty as the rest of the story missions. But i guess it was not successful because no one does that compared to the times the op was ran, so in old bioware fashion, they decided to ruin an aspect of the game some people love for "inclusion" and totally decimating it. Happened with heroics, happened with fps, happened with ops and lately it happened with pvp. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[CaptainZiv]

1 hour ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

i  go carried? lol
i have 100% in ops and the only reason i did sm once is because i did hm before sm, and got my true anomaly on first week.
You seem to be one of those weird people you meet on fps that think they are good and blame others when someone tries o help them

Sorry I didn't know that, I just thought you got carried because you only done R-4 Anomaly once on story mode, how was I supposed to know you did it on HM...

Edited September 26, 2023 by CaptainZiv

[Toraak]

5 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Guess we agree to disagree here. I see no reason right now for people to do sm ops now outside of tech fragments because the sm bosses now are glorified training dummies with different shapes and less ttk than a dummy. The only hard part about a sm op now is not falling asleep while doing it.
If sm ops where fun again, like if they had mechanics, more people would run them.

It probably is run by far less people, same as gods and dxun because they have some mechanics. But the others are not run because they are fun though, they are run for the same reason as why in 6.0 everyone ran hammer station. Fastest way to get gear.

Operations is basically the ONLY thing left under a subscription. It should be a fun recurring activity not having the introduction to it being boring and be able to be done by smashing your head against the keyboard. If people are so worried about story players broadsword can just do like they did for revan in SoR, option to do the op or solo a fight. Put the last boss with 300k hp in a room with no mechanics and kill it, same difficulty as the rest of the story missions. But i guess it was not successful because no one does that compared to the times the op was ran, so in old bioware fashion, they decided to ruin an aspect of the game some people love for "inclusion" and totally decimating it. Happened with heroics, happened with fps, happened with ops and lately it happened with pvp. 

That is one of the things however. Most people running Story Mode Ops aren't doing it for a fun challenge, they're doing it for frags or gear. Those that think challenges are fun, are running harder difficulty not Story Mode. I personally seldom bother with story mode raids because I do find them boring, however most people do them for other reasons. Put the difficulty back to what it was and those people farming them for frags (or gear) will do other things instead. This means LESS people actually doing story Mode Ops. This is not a good thing for the game.