Credit Economy Initiative beginning with 7.2.1

[TahliahCOH]

Not loving this for all the reasons stated by others. In addition to the silliness of making it harder for new players while doing nothing to impact the economy (inflation), it's also going to change how players who don't work the GTN are going to play. Who wants to pay 10k to travel to and from Ziost for the 10 minute dailies there? Or to CZ for the 15 minute ones there? It's crazy to charge new players 5k to travel across an early planet like Coruscant. They don't even have their starship yet, and if they forked out the creds for Quick Travel, they are getting dinged hard. Why not keep QT free for planets of the first three chapters? At least by the end of that, newer players will have a bit of a cushion to use on later planets for travel.

Guilds are going to be taking the brunt of the repair costs, so that won't hurt new players too much if they can get in a good guild that is backing its players. So I don't see that as a huge issue except that we're going to go back to the days of new players begging for creds to leave a planet because they spent all their creds on repairs, dying, etc. So we're just moving creds around, not removing them from the game except in small increments that do nothing about the real causes of in-game inflation. 

Personally, if I were just starting the game, I would not even bother getting Quick Travel. It's expensive to get and then to buy the unlocks so that it's instant, and then pile on the charge for just using it? Yeah, not worth it until you've been playing a good while and have the credits to waste.

[chroler]

It's been a long time, but I recall not having credits to utilize public transport when I first started on this game. Heck, I didn't have a mount when I went to Taris and had to hoof it for a while because I didn't know the right places to put credits, and I didn't know what QTing was, either! (Plus, you had to "physically" open each QT spot.) That's all to simply say don't generalize what new players' attitudes will be. It will just be the game to them.

I'm still more than a little incredulous at how easy it is to level compared to Year One, and reading this thread, I kind of get it. 

Every game presents obstacles and you figure out how to get past them, whether it's going on foot (can't help but laugh at it now), or figuring out different ways to earn credits in game, or the easiest ways to level, or how to get the gear you want. I don't agree with all the changes, either, but a game should have challenges or what's the point?

So, I'm going to try starting a new toon and experience these challenges just to see if I don't eat these words. Should be fun or at least interesting. One thing I know is I'll probably be past the suggested levels for Coruscant or Dromund Kaas well before I'm done with the intro planet. 

[TrixxieTriss]

7 minutes ago, phenla said:

Maybe, but the concern is that new and returning players, that do not have billions, are impacted now, in a real, game breaking way.  Believe it or don't, but it certainly applies to me.   There is no other issue or excuse anyone can use to explain away what is actually happening.  In game.  Now.  To a game we love.

As I stated, people aren’t reading this thread properly 🤦‍♀️

I’ve already acknowledged that earlier & agree these measures aren’t the best solution as they make no impact on the people with the credits & unfairly target newer or less wealthy players. 

I’ve even done some basic math to show that you would need to use the QT credit sink for years to take out the same amount of credits that one sale of 4 billion on the GTN would remove if BioWare fixes the tax loop holes & increase the trading amount on the GTN.

I don’t agree with how BioWare have gone about this. But it’s done now. They aren’t going to remove them. What we need them to do is fix the GTN system & player to player tax avoidance ASAP. Once that’s done, then they can look at other measures. 

[CLJolliff]

Just going to add my voice to the list of people who think these changes are inappropriate for solving the problem.

Convert all of these ridiculous pseudo-currencies to credits and let us spend our credits to buy this stuff, and we will spend them. Let us buy Cartel items with credits, and we will spend our credits. Raise the fees on the GTN to astronomical percentages for million/billion prices, and tier the rates based on asking prices to discourage price-gouging. Stop nickel-and-diming new players with fees to use perks and features they have already paid for, it's unfairly penalizing them.

[HRBEK]

Seems that the suggestions of players have gone half unheeded, though that depends on what credit sinks are being brought back. This post seems to focus only on increasing the prices that players pay for existing things. That's all well and good, but it does little to enhance the experience. More items (e.g., decorations from in-game vendors) would be an enormous help and the elimination of various useless hindrances (e.g., the price cap on GTN sales) would help to augment the cost increase measures. Look at the Suggestion Box, as lots of players have proposed helpful ideas.

[TahliahCOH]

5 hours ago, chroler said:

So, I'm going to try starting a new toon and experience these challenges just to see if I don't eat these words. Should be fun or at least interesting. One thing I know is I'll probably be past the suggested levels for Coruscant or Dromund Kaas well before I'm done with the intro planet. 

If you do that, make it real test and start on a new server where you don't have access to your legacy funds 😛

 

[Berdysh]

/sarcasm on

Wow, you mean the devs asked for feedback, and it was overwhelmingly negative?

Then the playerbase suggested many well thought out ideas to help the economy, and the devs ignored them all and implemented their original completely stupid idea anyway?

I am _shocked_ that they didn't listen!

/sarcasm off

It's like the devs are over in the corner playing WoW or something while they try to fix the economy of a game where they have no clue how the economy actually works.

[Nommaz]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:29 PM, JackieKo said:

7.2.1 will be introducing initiatives to combat the inflation that is present in the game

And yet you take out the ability to unlock or catchup on seasons achievements that used to be for a lot of credits (taken out of the game) and replaced it with CC only. how does that help?

 

[phenla]

8 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

As I stated, people aren’t reading this thread properly 🤦‍♀️

I’ve already acknowledged that earlier & agree these measures aren’t the best solution as they make no impact on the people with the credits & unfairly target newer or less wealthy players. 

I’ve even done some basic math to show that you would need to use the QT credit sink for years to take out the same amount of credits that one sale of 4 billion on the GTN would remove if BioWare fixes the tax loop holes & increase the trading amount on the GTN.

I don’t agree with how BioWare have gone about this. But it’s done now. They aren’t going to remove them. What we need them to do is fix the GTN system & player to player tax avoidance ASAP. Once that’s done, then they can look at other measures. 

Not sure I agree that "they are not going to remove them."  That IS the point of what many are saying.  This is a mistake, no matter the next steps.  Let's just disagree that this is "done".  Once they see that this is a real impact on player count, IE subs and $, they will change it.  If not, this game will suffer further, as there is no next step that will make this acceptable. 

I am not seeing this in your post, but if it is there, I apologize.  Peace

[microstyles]

1 hour ago, Nommaz said:

And yet you take out the ability to unlock or catchup on seasons achievements that used to be for a lot of credits (taken out of the game) and replaced it with CC only. how does that help?

You're referring to the "catch-up" mechanic where you can purchase GS season levels for credits later in the season? It was there last season, did bioware say they're not doing it this season?

[-PLASMA-]

The economy is beyond any repairs proposed by the devs, hence even majority of suggestions on this forum wont help.

 

The only way to fix this mess is a cold restart from zero.

Take ALL credits from ALL players/accounts and remove them. Give each account/player some starting credits like 50k or whatever to handle basic tasks.

Reduce the credit rewards given by quests and tasks.

Restrict CC items being sold on GTN/P2P traded.

 

Only that way you can restart the economy and lower the inflation, unfortunately this wont ever happen.

[Traceguy]

This QT change is absolutely pathetic. You have made it so new players cannot QT on starter worlds like Tython. It will cost 2k to QT back to the Jedi Temple, but the story missions on Tython offer less than 100 credits each. Someone who is just focusing on the Story and not spending hours more doing hte side quests won't be able to use QT. And even if they do, they will get to use it once or twice in total and leave Tython broke af

Only rich players who teleport to their SH and withdraw from legacy bank will get to use QT on starter worlds.

Also, why tf do taxis charge 1000% less? Taxi from Location A to Location B costs like 177 credits, while QT next to the Taxi to the other Taxi costs like 2,200 credits.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Traceguy

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, phenla said:

Not sure I agree that "they are not going to remove them."  That IS the point of what many are saying.  This is a mistake, no matter the next steps.  Let's just disagree that this is "done".  Once they see that this is a real impact on player count, IE subs and $, they will change it.  If not, this game will suffer further, as there is no next step that will make this acceptable. 

I am not seeing this in your post, but if it is there, I apologize.  Peace

I do hear what you’re saying & in an ideal situation that is what should happen.

But sadly, after watching how BioWare react to good & bad dev decisions over the last 11 years, I am confident to categorically say that BioWare won’t admit these changes are a mistake or remove them.

It’s just not something they will do. It doesn’t matter how many people leave. They’ve proven over & over & over again that they do not care if players leave. They would rather the game close before admitting they are wrong & walking back something they’ve done.

It is possible that they might tweak these changes & I think that’s what we should concentrate on getting them to do more than banging our heads on the wall trying to get them to do something they just won’t do.

At the same time, I do think we should collect data, proof & ideas on how they could tweak it to make it more fair & less arduous. Already I’m seeing that the QT prices have some issues, like Nar Shaadar being more expensive than end game zones 🤷🏻‍♀️

But if we really want BioWare to fix the inflation, we do need them to fix the GTN and Player to Player tax avoidance situation ASAP. 

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, -PLASMA- said:

The economy is beyond any repairs proposed by the devs, hence even majority of suggestions on this forum wont help.

 

The only way to fix this mess is a cold restart from zero.

Take ALL credits from ALL players/accounts and remove them. Give each account/player some starting credits like 50k or whatever to handle basic tasks.

Reduce the credit rewards given by quests and tasks.

Restrict CC items being sold on GTN/P2P traded.

 

Only that way you can restart the economy and lower the inflation, unfortunately this wont ever happen.

Extremist action like youre suggesting would shutter the game. So many people who’ve literally spent thousands of dollars over the years & still do, would leave the game in a heart beat. The game would never recover from such a mass exodus in one go. 

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, microstyles said:

You're referring to the "catch-up" mechanic where you can purchase GS season levels for credits later in the season? It was there last season, did bioware say they're not doing it this season?

It takes a week or two before that catch up mechanic starts when the season is new. Give it a month at least & you’ll start seeing it again. 

[phenla]

27 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I do hear what you’re saying & in an ideal situation that is what should happen.

But sadly, after watching how BioWare react to good & bad dev decisions over the last 11 years, I am confident to categorically say that BioWare won’t admit these changes are a mistake or remove them.

It’s just not something they will do. It doesn’t matter how many people leave. They’ve proven over & over & over again that they do not care if players leave. They would rather the game close before admitting they are wrong & walking back something they’ve done.

It is possible that they might tweak these changes & I think that’s what we should concentrate on getting them to do more than banging our heads on the wall trying to get them to do something they just won’t do.

At the same time, I do think we should collect data, proof & ideas on how they could tweak it to make it more fair & less arduous. Already I’m seeing that the QT prices have some issues, like Nar Shaadar being more expensive than end game zones 🤷🏻‍♀️

But if we really want BioWare to fix the inflation, we do need them to fix the GTN and Player to Player tax avoidance situation ASAP. 

Honestly, I could care less if they close the GTN or leave it completely as is.  It has no impact on playing the game as it is designed.  I do not have to buy anything from there to play all of the story content, etc.

I want them to leave the core game alone so I can play with the QoL features they themselves built into the game.

If/when they change the travel cost, you remember you said that.  I doubt you will, but hope you do.

The fact we are discussing this at all should give us both pause as to the intelligence of continuing to support this game.  If they are so uncaring, or blind, to this move, why play? 

 

[Gimpeline]

This change hurts new players and free players. Players that have been here for a few years, like me, won't notice it at all. The solution to inflation is not making new players struggle. That will only harm the playerbase. If I was a new free player today, I wouldent stick around, and I wouldent upgrade to payed account. For me, the trawel cost is nothing. For a free player that can only hold 1 million credits, this is a game killer.

I dont know what mousebrain came up with this, but that person should be fired. If you whant to repair the economy, go after the rich, not the poor

[Yarol]

Adding a cost of up to 5000 credits to a quick trip is simply not the right way to fight inflation. New players and players who have never wanted to spend billions will be punished and really rich players won't care about 5000 credits. For me as a subscription player, this is a deterioration and the secret attempt to make the subscription benefits smaller and smaller. If then you would have to cap the prices in the Galactic Trade Market upwards or lower the prices automatically. In real life, certain prices are also called usury and would be punishable in certain cases. You developers have only yourselves to blame, because you have watched for too long and now new players tend to be punished and players who have never participated and are now allowed to spoon out the soup. 🤮

I canceled my subscription today. Such a game policy I do not support, where rich continue to be protected and players with credit addiction and overpriced GTN trade prices have nothing to fear. New players and players without credit need, are the losers in this matter.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Yarol

[peterschlossersw]

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

At the same time, I do think we should collect data, proof & ideas on how they could tweak it to make it more fair & less arduous.

Come on you guys, give 'em a break.  Governments all over the (our real-life) world struggle to keep free markets running well, and inflation in check.  They've struggled for 100 years and still can get things right.

BW is taking action.  Misguided or not, and I'm guessing they anticipated all this flack, they did it anyway.  This makes it seem the issue is important to them.

If this problem was caused, or even started by credit exploits, then BW has access to the data, to the logging, to show who did what.  Those accounts could be sanctioned, directly.  If BW does NOT have the data gathering and logging in place, I urge they change that.  If this problem ever gets fixed, future credit exploits may cause it anew.  The logging is essential to hold people accountable.

[chroler]

12 hours ago, TahliahCOH said:

If you do that, make it real test and start on a new server where you don't have access to your legacy funds 😛

Precisely the plan!

[Balameb]

5 minutes ago, peterschlossersw said:

Come on you guys, give 'em a break.  Governments all over the (our real-life) world struggle to keep free markets running well, and inflation in check.  They've struggled for 100 years and still can get things right.

BW is taking action.  Misguided or not, and I'm guessing they anticipated all this flack, they did it anyway. 

Anticipated or not, they went with it because they are too arrogant to admit their biggest mistakes or that they had a bad idea, with an even worst implementation plan.

Quote

This makes it seem the issue is important to them.

Doubt it. They said the same before and none of the changes managed to slow inflation; after the previous one (lowering CCs rewards in GS) prices double to tripled.

And if it is important, then is because they want to keep it high.

Quote

If this problem was caused, or even started by credit exploits, then BW has access to the data, to the logging, to show who did what.  Those accounts could be sanctioned, directly.  If BW does NOT have the data gathering and logging in place, I urge they change that.  If this problem ever gets fixed, future credit exploits may cause it anew.  The logging is essential to hold people accountable.

If they have proper logs, they refuse to use them or are to lazy to analyze the data. And i'm not just talking, on previous exploits they only penalized a portion of the ofenders and sometimes not even that.

This new patch gave exploiters a new life and allowed them to restock credits.

Yeah, sure they found it 'fast', but that means average joe did not got time to exploit it. Credit sellers  are always ready to find exploits in system on every new patch and this time they even got heads up because the patch notes announced a new feature (involving mail system and credits) that was not tested before. like ... the mail system that has been source of exploits before, and now the new feature that can create mail loops with huge amount of credits. I mean, it was open season for exploiters. They logged in, pointed their bots/macros/scripts, duped credits and moved them all over the place on many accounts before BW shut the mail system down.

[kalasur]

19 hours ago, VegaMist said:

I don't believe subscribers are limited to only 4 active strongholds. I literally have one of each (except for the newest one) and they are all active. Guilds are limited to only 1 (which I think should be expanded), but not the subscribers.

I am a subscriber, and I only have 4 available slots. Are you claiming that you can actively use more than 4 without having to deactivate one first? Because I don't have that ability and I have been a subscriber since Vanilla.

[Balameb]

2 minutes ago, kalasur said:

I am a subscriber, and I only have 4 available slots. Are you claiming that you can actively use more than 4 without having to deactivate one first? Because I don't have that ability and I have been a subscriber since Vanilla.

Send a ticket. You should not be limited.

[kalasur]

Adjustments to repairing: 

• Do you find yourself having to repair more or less often?
• When you repair, does the cost increase seem significant or fair?

Adjustments to travel:

• Do the Quick Travel costs seem fair? Do you think this will affect your usage of Quick Travel?
• Are there travel costs that you currently find to be too little or too much? 
• Are there methods of travel that have no cost that you would expect to have a cost?

Repair costs are unnoticed because the guild pays it, not me. Guildmaster isn't complaining so non-issue.

Travel costs are arbitrary and make no sense. Not to mention they are punishing new players who don't have resources. They are an annoyance to me, with billions of credits, but not going to really do anything to my billions of credits. But...

I already paid credits to unlock quick travel on all my toons. Now I'm paying more credits on top of it. And the quick travel costs don't align with the taxi travel costs. 

What the quick travel costs may impact is how much I play and what content I play. Particularly quests that have multiple phases that require planet-jumping or jumping all over the map. You've created a situation where in many cases, the cost to complete a quest will be higher than the reward for completing the quest. That's like spending $500 to commute to work to be paid $300 in wages. How long is someone going to go to that job.

 

The easiest thing in the world to fix the economy: get rid of the thousand and twenty different currencies and let us buy things with credits. Seriously, I'm looking at my character right now and:

 

tech fragments

conquest commendations

daily resource matrix

FP-1 stabilizer

OP-1 Catalyst

WZ-1 accelerant

Galactic season tokens

Unused Underworld syndicate plans (because once I maxxed I had nothing to do with them)

G.A.M.E modules (because once I maxxed I had nothing to do with them)

Notes of Reflection

Prosperity Token

Golden Certificates

cartel market certificates

snow covered parcel

dantooine surveyor's notes

completed bounty contract

gray helix components

rakghoul DNA canister

relics of ossus

ziost memory holograph

fleet commendation

light side tokens (vendors still exist but can't earn tokens anymore for stuff)

dark side tokens (vendors still exist but can't earn tokens anymore for stuff)

Get...rid...of...all...of...them. Once someone reaches the required reputation with a faction, let them spend credits on the stuff instead of all this nonsense. I could blow a billion credits just on Cartel Market items right now if I could buy them with credits instead of needing cartel market certificates.

[kalasur]

14 minutes ago, Balameb said:

Send a ticket. You should not be limited.

I will. If I can have all my strongholds active at once, I'd burn through credits faster than a drunk gambling addict at the Star Cluster Casino!