Premades ruin the game but

[ZUHFB]

8 minutes ago, DougTheNoob said:

. It can be fixed by simply forcing premades against premades,and not against pugs.

So it can be solved by giving premades no pops, would be the same as removing it.

[DeannaVoyager]

7 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

So it can be solved by giving premades no pops, would be the same as removing it.

No. You should follow your advice: Get friends, ask them to form another premade and queue. That would be at least  two premades in total in queue, and voila - you will instantly get a pop. 

 

 

 

[ZUHFB]

47 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

No. You should follow your advice: Get friends, ask them to form another premade and queue. That would be at least  two premades in total in queue, and voila - you will instantly get a pop. 

I do not like to premade, I think it's boring - might aswell do DF SM, would be the same quality of content.

Solo players still would get rolled, what if one team is significantly better than the other? Oh damn, sounds like there was nothing achieved at all. 

Again, it's not a problem that needs fixing.

[Crazykidddd]

It didn't used to be, but it is now. 
A couple of months ago premades starting forming which pushed others to only queue with premades as well, and now about 9/10 matches you queue into end up being full premades, usually the same, which either make the game incredibly boring if you're on their side or incredibly frustrating as they just stunlock and gank you on repeat.
Telling people to avoid them is dumb because then what's the point of even pvp'ing in the first place? If I wanted to afk at a pylon I'd be playing pve. 

[Crazykidddd]

On 11/23/2022 at 11:31 AM, septru said:

Dont worry. After 7.2 there will be no coordination, no skill, no competition, and no need to ever improve. PvP will be a safe space where no one ever gets stun locked, attacked, or dies. 

You clearly haven't spent much time in regs if you honestly believe that. 
The desire to get better at the game is not born out of ranked, and if anything, for the newer players it acts as a deterrent. 
The truth is that if you're going to play pvp by hiding behind your team all match and just afk'ing at a node then sure you're not going to get much of anything out of it, however in regs you have multiple ways to test yourself if you choose to do so. 
It's something that should come from you.
Ranked only aided in getting better because it weeded out all the casuals who offer no challenge whatsoever, however it by no means was an end all to being a skilled player. 
I'm not saying any of this to defend the removal of ranked by any means, just that unless you're running in a full premade that carry you all match, you can improve playing regs as well. 

[Crazykidddd]

6 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

I do not like to premade, I think it's boring - might aswell do DF SM, would be the same quality of content.

Solo players still would get rolled, what if one team is significantly better than the other? Oh damn, sounds like there was nothing achieved at all. 

Again, it's not a problem that needs fixing.

The fact solo players would still get rolled is a matchmaking problem, not a premade one.
What you're trying to say is basically either everything or nothing, not how it works buddy. 

[omaan]

14 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

So it can be solved by giving premades no pops, would be the same as removing it.

keep premades for regs but make 4v4 ONLY solo so people could have a choice - to play something without premades and to play something with premades. Having premade option for 8vs8 is a better idea because at least there is a chance solo players could get into same team with premades or to get against premades but outplay them tactically. Premades in 4v4 arenas is a total disaster because premade groups are full and closed, no one else can get into their team so solo players will ALWAYS get stomped by premades + in 4v4 there is no way to outplay a premade with pug group because they are coordinated, sitting on top classes and having tank/healer comps while pugs are often bad, playing random classes and having no healer or tank 

[omaan]

14 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

So it can be solved by giving premades no pops, would be the same as removing it.

and removing premades will make pvp playable and 3x better. I would take that, thanks! 

[omaan]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:50 AM, ZUHFB said:

1. yeah and nobody will be mad if you die to then

2. I mean that, if what you say is true, you should have the self reflexion to realize that there wasn't anything you did wrong, or that they did wrong - they won because they are more! A problem that doesn't need and cannot be fixed, playing with friends is essential.

3. Solo player regstar doesn't need a sub in 7.2, regs are F2P

no one cares what others think, everyone cares about their game experience. If it's booring, always losing to premades without chances to win it means there is a big problem which must be fixed. keeping premades for unranked and making two 4vs4 queues - for solo players and for group players perfectly solves the problem since it provides people different regimes they WANT TO PLAY instead of only one regime which is hated by numerous players 

[krackcommando]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:04 PM, omaan said:

keep premades for regs but make 4v4 ONLY solo so people could have a choice - to play something without premades and to play something with premades. Having premade option for 8vs8 is a better idea because at least there is a chance solo players could get into same team with premades or to get against premades but outplay them tactically. Premades in 4v4 arenas is a total disaster because premade groups are full and closed, no one else can get into their team so solo players will ALWAYS get stomped by premades + in 4v4 there is no way to outplay a premade with pug group because they are coordinated, sitting on top classes and having tank/healer comps while pugs are often bad, playing random classes and having no healer or tank 

4v4 is a different game mode (TDM). you're arguing against the ability of players to team up for objective maps? that sounds incredibly arbitrary and...self-serving?

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by krackcommando

[DougTheNoob]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:22 AM, ZUHFB said:

So it can be solved by giving premades no pops, would be the same as removing it.

Nah. theres always more than 1 premade qing. The problem is that most of the time they dont go against each other. sometimes they are in the same team,and sometimes they are in a completly dif q.

[ZUHFB]

2 hours ago, DougTheNoob said:

Nah. theres always more than 1 premade qing. The problem is that most of the time they dont go against each other. sometimes they are in the same team,and sometimes they are in a completly dif q.

that is not the point, a premade doesn't mean they play like they are a premade

Like yeah, I'm sure this would just work great if a bogan premade gets queued vs Quanny, Rofl, Terssa and Neavi every game. 

It just results, in the bogan premade not queueing and in the other premade not getting pops. It is just another version of teamranked. 

Not to mention, how would you know if this isn't happening already? Why does a premade need the same guild tag? Maybe it's just a bunch of people queueing together

I also have games where I think: "ah damn, they premading again" and then next game I notice I have a few of them and the team got split, they weren't even premading to begin with! Like when I see another competent - no sorry, another ranked player obviously I fight with them because... well they know what they're doing! They know how to follow stuns how to break how to help how to peel how to play pvp. To bystanders it looks like a premade but it's not. 

What this post is about is more like: "I got farmed by what I believe to be a premade and it's unfair :Babyrage:" 

[Opiklo]

bad players will allways complain bout premades. 
you know why they dont form their own? 
because they would get their asses kicked anyway. 
but then the excuse is gone. 
and premade does not mean premade. 
there are a lot of premades out there which you can totally obliterate with 1 random mate. 
only because good players play together, they are not doing anything wrong. 

what would you do in war as a simple infantrist, if the s.a.s. is coming for you? 
complaining, that they know what they are doing and know how to work together? 
to whom? 

come on. its a simple get guud and get friends issue. 

take some responisbility for your own failure.

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, Opiklo said:

what would you do in war as a simple infantrist, if the s.a.s. is coming for you?

Just remember: This isn't  'war" .  It's just a video-game people pay to PLAY.

The rest of your post was spot-on though....and i *clicked*  like to reflect as such.

[ZUHFB]

39 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

This isn't  'war"

then why is it called a warzone

[Opiklo]

oh (insert not allowed f word) if it isnt war.. how did i become elite warlord in warzones?
huttball even tells you no rules, anything goes.....

but then there are butthurts who want to regulate everything down so that they with their inferior skill can be viable. 

its sooo sad. 

if you dont like the competitve spirit of human competition. 
stay away from said competition and dont destroy it for the others. 
 

[Nee-Elder]

23 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:

then why is it called a warzone

Because it's a simulation.

6 minutes ago, Opiklo said:

if you dont like the competitve spirit of human competition.

I love it actually , but i also have enough sophisticated perspective to realize  here at least: It's just a video-game.

If you (or others) think it's more than a video-game , that's  certainly your prerogative.

But i wouldn't recommend it.

[Opiklo]

yeah its a game that people play together. so where is the issue? 
if you and your friends are bad and get mauled you get mauled. 
go to a basketballcourt with your gamer friends and try playing d1 players. 
same result. 

the solution can not be to cater the weak in a competitive game mode. 
those people who stomp others earned their spot in the food chain. 

do you want to force them to have less fun because others, who could technically do the same, are not capable of pulling that off? 
what do you imagine happens, if you split them up? 
you really think they will play only for their team? 
they are still in the same voice chat. mostly avoiding to fight each other.

then people will complain about that. 

i played a lot of matches on starforge recently. and oh boi. 

a mate and me queued together. dot sage and dot slinger. 

we were called filthy, worthless premade in chat.  sorry that we were the only 2 people in that match who knew how to remotely deal dmg. 

2 people. no heal. no skank. 

if i cant even queue with 1 buddy for pvp then (insert f word) it mate.  this still is a mmo right? 

the real problem is the variety of skilllevels. if 5 10 apm and don't know what my def cds actually do people run into even 3 fairly skilled players they are done. 

i get stomped a lot, too. happens. there once was a german guild "nie glück mit den mates" (never luck with the mates). and that is what basically happens. crap team. little chance of fun. thats life. if you q with 3 mates who can keep directions apart you have an advantage. the one eyed is king among the blind. 

its not me who takes this crap too seriously. its you. 



 

[Nee-Elder]

2 hours ago, Opiklo said:

yeah its a game that people play together. so where is the issue?

i have no issue , other than with BioWare for  completely removing  ANY  'leaderboard'  at all (so far) in  7.2

2 hours ago, Opiklo said:

its not me who takes this crap too seriously. its you.

i'm not exactly sure who/what  you keep  ranting & raging  at , but just in case it's me:  For the record, i personally enjoy  PVP (including Ranked sometimes) since 2011 beta and i've also taken certain aspects of SWTOR  "seriously" .  It's relatively speaking though , with full awareness it's still just a video-game.  Otherwise i'd have probably gone fully insane by now.

If you (or anyone) finds that offensive, or upsetting,  well....

Edited December 2, 2022 by Nee-Elder
Reason: so funny how supposedly "tough" PVP'ers are also the most sensitive when you don't agree 100% with them.

[Achnaattwo]

isn't this debate on all, multi-player PvP  game forums ?

[DougTheNoob]

22 hours ago, Opiklo said:

yeah its a game that people play together. so where is the issue? 
if you and your friends are bad and get mauled you get mauled. 
go to a basketballcourt with your gamer friends and try playing d1 players. 
same result. 

the solution can not be to cater the weak in a competitive game mode. 
those people who stomp others earned their spot in the food chain. 

do you want to force them to have less fun because others, who could technically do the same, are not capable of pulling that off? 
what do you imagine happens, if you split them up? 
you really think they will play only for their team? 
they are still in the same voice chat. mostly avoiding to fight each other.

then people will complain about that. 

i played a lot of matches on starforge recently. and oh boi. 

a mate and me queued together. dot sage and dot slinger. 

we were called filthy, worthless premade in chat.  sorry that we were the only 2 people in that match who knew how to remotely deal dmg. 

2 people. no heal. no skank. 

if i cant even queue with 1 buddy for pvp then (insert f word) it mate.  this still is a mmo right? 

the real problem is the variety of skilllevels. if 5 10 apm and don't know what my def cds actually do people run into even 3 fairly skilled players they are done. 

i get stomped a lot, too. happens. there once was a german guild "nie glück mit den mates" (never luck with the mates). and that is what basically happens. crap team. little chance of fun. thats life. if you q with 3 mates who can keep directions apart you have an advantage. the one eyed is king among the blind. 

its not me who takes this crap too seriously. its you. 



 

Nobody is saying u cant q with friends. I play with my friends all the time too. We just want premades to go against premades. When I'm in a premade I really dont want to fight against a pug group cos its just too easy and boring,and obviously it kills the fun for me and my group and for the pugs cos they'll just die all the time. And when I q solo I dont want to fight against a premade that leaves me with no chance to win a fight. It doesnt matter how good u are,u wont win against a 4 man group with vc coordination,specialy if they playing with a meta comp if u are alone,and u cant carry a whole pug group if most of em are newbies or baddies.

U and a buddy isnt a problem.Specialy when its 2 dps. I'm talking about full try hard premades here ,ofc.And I agree with u when u say ppl in regs cry a lot and most of the time with no reason.

Edited December 3, 2022 by DougTheNoob

[ZUHFB]

31 minutes ago, DougTheNoob said:

We just want premades to go against premades.

It would still be the exact same but with less pops... I don't understand how that is so hard to see

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

3 hours ago, DougTheNoob said:

Nobody is saying u cant q with friends. I play with my friends all the time too. We just want premades to go against premades. When I'm in a premade I really dont want to fight against a pug group

and what happens when you queue with your friends and go against a premade that is worse than you? you win first game, next game you win again, they leave queue, so now you dont get pops? how does that make any sense

[Achnaattwo]

5 hours ago, Mycroft-Tarkin said:

and what happens when you queue with your friends and go against a premade that is worse than you? you win first game, next game you win again, they leave queue, so now you dont get pops? how does that make any sense

and and  it happens on Valentine's Day . .

oh The Horror, oh the horror 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stella !!

[omaan]

On 12/2/2022 at 1:07 AM, krackcommando said:

4v4 is a different game mode (TDM). you're arguing against the ability of players to team up for objective maps? that sounds incredibly arbitrary and...self-serving?

 

no, iam arguing the ability of players to team up and reck everyone else in 4v4 because a 4-man pug group will NEVER win a 4-man premade group which can choose classes to play, use voice comms, coordinate themselves during whole fight, gather in one team only most skilled friends etc. Allowing premades to queue 4v4 will kill it, that's why currently and since ranked season 1 there were two 4v4 queues - for solo ranked and a separate queue for team ranked since it was obvious for everyone that pug group will never win a premade group 

Edited December 4, 2022 by omaan