An unpopular OPINION ...but i'm gonna say it:

[Nee-Elder]

I've finally come around to understand BioWare's reasoning (and wreckoning --pun intended  ) behind  recent 7.0 era & gearing.

And so...as much as it pains me to say this:  i agree with this current iteration & direction of SWTOR.*

Here's why:

1.  'Galactic Seasons' , hamster-wheel  that it is , does indeed make playing/grinding  more enjoyable.
2.  'Currency' tab , bloated & overloaded as it is,  does indeed give players/grinders more choice.
3.  'Hyde & Zeek' , hidden & gated though they are, does indeed give  players/crafters some (eventual) schematic control.
4.  'Weeklys'  resetting, annoying as it can be, does indeed generate more player/group  activity more often.
5.  'Heroics' , old & outdated as most are,  have indeed become more worthwhile to run again.
6.  'Queues'  for both PVP & GSF  seem to be popping more frequently (other than Ranked, but that could change tomorrow with 7.2 announcement )
7.  'Flashpoints'  are ALL finally being run again,  instead of just  spHammerStation  on repeat.
8.  'Operations' are ALL finally being run again, instead of just  NiM nefra  on repeat.
9.  'ALTs' , while still important to gamer continuation (and schizophrenia   ) , don't seem to be obsessed about as much as MAIN toons.
10.  'Content' , while still  underwritten/underdeveloped/underfunded , is actually very abumdant for a NEW player starting from scratch with 2 'combat styles'.

*Honestly, if  BioWare could just...

• fix Crafting
• tweak Economy
• open Space to PVE (combat, mining, & exploration)
• make Companions unique & customizable again (both in appearance and in commands)
• design Quests/Story-arcs  with more RPG type depth, same as missions like 'HK//Theoretika' , 'Z0-OM unlock', 'Reclaimed Treasure for Talos', 'Shroud/Macrobinoculars' , etc.
• implement 'sandbox' type Planet (for building guild-cities, allowing player-run events, & encouraging more open-world PVP 24/7 ---like ESO does with 'Cyrodiil' )

...then SWTOR could still, after 10+ years,  end up being best SW game ever!

Edited November 9, 2022 by Nee-Elder
Reason: i know *nuance* is tough for most humans to accept

[Bida]

Well said, points awarded to Nee-Elder.

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, Nee-Elder said:

I've finally come around to understand BioWare's reasoning (and wreckoning --pun intended  ) behind  recent 7.0 era & gearing.

And so...as much as it pains me to say this:  i agree with this current iteration & direction of SWTOR.*

Here's why:

1.  'Galactic Seasons' , hamster-wheel  that it is , does indeed make playing/grinding  more enjoyable.
2.  'Currency' tab , bloated & overloaded as it is,  does indeed give players/grinders more choice.
3.  'Hyde & Zeek' , hidden & gated though they are, does indeed give  players/crafters some (eventual) schematic control.
4.  'Weeklys'  resetting, annoying as it can be, does indeed generate more player/group  activity more often.
5.  'Heroics' , old & outdated as most are,  have indeed become more worthwhile to run again.
6.  'Queues'  for both PVP & GSF  seem to be popping more frequently (other than Ranked, but that could change tomorrow with 7.2 announcement )
7.  'Flashpoints'  are ALL finally being run again,  instead of just  spHammerStation  on repeat.
8.  'Operations' are ALL finally being run again, instead of just  NiM nefra  on repeat.
9.  'ALTs' , while still important to gamer continuation (and schizophrenia   ) , don't seem to be obsessed about as much as MAIN toons.
10.  'Content' , while still  underwritten/underdeveloped/underfunded , is actually very abumdant for a NEW player starting from scratch with 2 'combat styles'.

*Honestly, if  BioWare could just...

• fix Crafting
• tweak Economy
• open Space to PVE (combat, mining, & exploration)
• make Companions unique & customizable again (both in appearance and in commands)
• design Quests/Story-arcs  with more RPG type depth, same as missions like 'HK//Theoretika' , 'Z0-OM unlock', & 'Shroud/Macrobinoculars'
• implement 'sandbox' type Planet (for building guild-cities, allowing player-run events, & encouraging more open-world PVP 24/7 ---like ESO does with 'Cyrodiil' )

...then SWTOR could still, after 10+ years,  end up being best SW game ever!

 

NOPE!!  ...

Well  .. No and yes (sort of)

** GS is a hamster wheel.  That simple.  Nothing to spend coins on really (particularly if a player has been around for a while now.  The non-interactive companion is another dull spot! (to me at least).

** The currency thing ... Honestly, if there was a way to convert all of that into useful stuff in a more accommodating way, I'd agree 100% on this point.  BUT there again, like GS, there's just not that much to spend it on.  Thus, little interest. 

** Hyde and Zeek Hidden and gated ..  correct.  Once you get their mission unless you're in a group activity it's totally useless.  I've finally got 330 green stuff on all characters ... (and several alts) ...  I'm not even sure where or how to get the next upgrade.  It really shouldn't be that hidden away!

** Weekly stuff really isn't that big a deal.  Heck ...  I usually cap out all of the currencies that I'm REALLY after by Saturday anyhow.

** I don't personally do GSF and PvP.  I don't personally have any grievance against any of it.  I'm certain that they both need help (if those areas are in the same shape or worse than PvE stuff).

** FP's and Heroics ...  I use to do a LOT until 7.0 was release.  I rarely mess with them anymore.  Perhaps with slightly better gear and some of the companion stuff fixed (just a few tweaks) ... It might be worth it again.  But for now ... NO!  AND NO ... I really am NOT expecting that to ever happen again.  Sooo  I AM looking at other games right now!

** Content is still hurting ...  period!

*** Crafting ... I agree!  It really needs to be worth something again!!

*** Economy.  You only have to look at GS coins and see what has happened.  Nothing to spend coins on and people are sitting on a mountain of credits.  PLUS IMO the credit spammers need to be cut off.  I'm not a programmer but IS THERE not some sort of way to prevent purchases from outside of BW / SWTOR to find it's way into the game.  Is the game that easily hacked for spammers to deposit literally BILLIONS into the economy??  JUST asking on this one.  IMO there's GOT to be a way!

*** I REALLY do like the idea of customizable companions.  I'd love to see the return of a few of the old companions (not just Lana or Theron).  I'd also like to see some more of the interactions we use to have as well.  (Some could be repeatable).  

*** Not so sure about the sandbox theory.  Might a couple aspects worth looking into.  But to be perfectly candid about it ... not sold on the whole idea!  ( I hope that makes sense).

ADDITIONALLY:  some areas set to open PvP and PvE is excellent!!  When executed correctly open areas really are a lot of fun!  I've even seen it where some really nasty big bosses are roaming freely and (with an easier invite system) ... it really is something else to watch and participate in!!

BTW..  Please note:  My objections are not meant to be hostile in nature.  Just pointing out another side of the coin.  😉

[ThanderSnB]

2 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

I've finally come around to understand BioWare's reasoning (and wreckoning --pun intended  ) behind  recent 7.0 era & gearing.

And so...as much as it pains me to say this:  i agree with this current iteration & direction of SWTOR.*

Here's why:

1.  'Galactic Seasons' , hamster-wheel  that it is , does indeed make playing/grinding  more enjoyable.
2.  'Currency' tab , bloated & overloaded as it is,  does indeed give players/grinders more choice.
3.  'Hyde & Zeek' , hidden & gated though they are, does indeed give  players/crafters some (eventual) schematic control.
4.  'Weeklys'  resetting, annoying as it can be, does indeed generate more player/group  activity more often.
5.  'Heroics' , old & outdated as most are,  have indeed become more worthwhile to run again.
6.  'Queues'  for both PVP & GSF  seem to be popping more frequently (other than Ranked, but that could change tomorrow with 7.2 announcement )
7.  'Flashpoints'  are ALL finally being run again,  instead of just  spHammerStation  on repeat.
8.  'Operations' are ALL finally being run again, instead of just  NiM nefra  on repeat.
9.  'ALTs' , while still important to gamer continuation (and schizophrenia   ) , don't seem to be obsessed about as much as MAIN toons.
10.  'Content' , while still  underwritten/underdeveloped/underfunded , is actually very abumdant for a NEW player starting from scratch with 2 'combat styles'.

I don't agree with your overall assessment. I think Onslaught was on the right track. It just needed some balancing and tweaks to make it perfect. Instead, they redid everything and made lots of mistakes along the way. They still haven't got everything where it should be. We are still missing a proper level 80 planet. Manaan is a daily area like Oricon. It's nice but it's not really a proper planet for exploration and more importantly, crafting. We are still missing level 80 crafting, probably because they don't have a planet for it yet.

I also disagree with a few of your points:

1. Galactic Seasons is separate from 7.0. Yes, it was added in these patches, but it could have been part of Onslaught too. For example, Feast of Prosperity came out in 6.0 era, but no one considers that to be Onslaught. It's an event, something to do on the side, not part of the expansion. Remember, Galactic Season 1 was in Onslaught. These are events that happen concurrently with expansions.

2. I don't understand what you mean by more choice? In Onslaught it was just tech fragments, so you could literally do any content and get tech fragments directly from mission rewards or indirectly from renown. You didn't have to do specific content to get specific currencies like being forced to do dailies/heroics for Daily Resource Matrix. Now, I don't mind doing these things a little each week, but there's no way you can say the new currencies give players more choice.

3. I agree Hyde & Zeek is a good addition, though I would make some changes. I'd make them easier to discover (put them in main gearing room) and require a little bit more to unlock. In 7.1 it made sense how easy it was to unlock, but it would be too fast in 7.0 to unlock the mod vendor in two weeks (or less) and immediately fully gear all your alts are fully geared. That's just not healthy for an MMO. I'd turn it into 3 questlines, one for each role. Each questline would have three missions to unlock the three types of mods: 1st armorings/hilts/barrels, 2nd mods, 3rd enhancements. Then when an update increased item level, there would be a new questline for each role to unlock the higher item level. However, I'd also tie progress to achievements, so you could do the achievements on one character and all alts would gain access to the vendor.

8. NiM Nefra was not a thing before 7.0. In Onslaught you could get rewards from all activities and all difficulties, so players did what they wanted. It's true that players stuck to the easy content, the quick, single boss operations. Bioware could have fixed this by reducing the number of items the single bosses dropped as well as the rewards from the associated missions OR increasing the rewards from longer operations. The only people that did NiM in Onslaught were the people that enjoyed hard content.

9. Why do you say alts aren't obsessed about as much? What does this have to do with Legacy of the Sith? I can only think of the Conquest Commendation cap, but the thing is Tech Fragments are much more scarce than Commendations and they are not capped, so they really haven't disincentivized alts. Alts are just as useful as before. Why stick to the main when I can play an alt and get 1000 more tech fragments basically for free?

10. I do like the potential with two combat styles, but I don't think it was the right decision for SWTOR this late in its life. They didn't have the staff needed to pull it off while still adding all the features expected of an expansion on launch day (story was too short, no new operation, no large planet to explore, no level 80 crafting).

Just because I disagree with these things doesn't mean Legacy of the Sith was all bad. There have been some good changes, but they could have carried over more of Onslaught and just made the few changes necessary. Onslaught was probably 80% there, so they could throw out 20%, improve it, and get 100%. On the other hand, Legacy of the Sith launched probably 20% there, and it's taken them 9 months to get back to 60%. Whoever in charge, caused themselves a lot more trouble than they needed to.

[DarthCasus]

Too salty to agree, not a fan of the current direction in the least. Narratively, gameplay-wise, in terms of in game systems, nada. They keep taking steps backwards. I think we're too far removed from the initial launch of 7.0 and what it did to the experience out the gates to remember why the population is dropping still despite galactic season 3 going live. Respectfully, this post honestly comes across like one of the stages of grief (bargaining to be clear). Its not like the things you listed they should do are minor, most of those would require a lot of resources with no clear return on investment, for one. If they wouldn't, why haven't we seen or heard anything on those fronts? When we do hear anything, what is it generally about? Its never an actual dialogue unless its about something totally by the wayside.

I could type out a point by point reply but there is no need to come off as combative. I'm just deeply disappointed and continue to feel the sense of decay that's been lingering for a while now for a game I love.

[Nee-Elder]

2 hours ago, ThanderSnB said:

2. I don't understand what you mean by more choice?

i just meant like,  because of the new Fleet 'currency' vendors ,  players can choose to  go  seemingly ANY route they want:  Ops,  FP's,  PVP,  solo Heroics, solo Vet FP's, solo GSF,  solo Dailys/Weeklys, etc. etc. etc.

2 hours ago, ThanderSnB said:

9. Why do you say alts aren't obsessed about as much?

Well,  this could be a coincidence  but...  As  a SWTOR  GM since 2009/2011 beta, i been noticing  more members  playing (and staying) on their MAINs  more often , while at the same time  i been seeing quite a few members  deleting  "alts  never gonna play again" .  --  Of course, this could also be simply due to the whole  'combat styles'  thing too.   Plus,  since  'Conquest'  points take a little bit longer to get  per toon nowadays.

1 hour ago, DarthCasus said:

. Respectfully, this post honestly comes across like one of the stages of grief (bargaining to be clear).

So funny you say that cuz actually my original TITLE for this thread was gonna be: 'The Seven Point OH Episodes of SWTOR Grief'  -

But  a) i thought  it was way too corny  and  b) i been using  way too many  Star Wars  puns  lately.

Anyways,  your point is well taken and  i must admit there's probably some truth to it yep.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Nee-Elder
Reason: spelling

[JakRoanin]

I don't "agree" per se, but I have come to accept that it is what it is, period! I strenuously abhor the drips of story and the glut of trash mobs. It's disgusting. I truly wish that BioWare would step up, and make great stories and dynamic characters.

[Setta]

5 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

I've finally come around to understand BioWare's reasoning (and wreckoning --pun intended  ) behind  recent 7.0 era & gearing.

And so...as much as it pains me to say this:  i agree with this current iteration & direction of SWTOR.*

Here's why:

1.  'Galactic Seasons' , hamster-wheel  that it is , does indeed make playing/grinding  more enjoyable.
2.  'Currency' tab , bloated & overloaded as it is,  does indeed give players/grinders more choice.
3.  'Hyde & Zeek' , hidden & gated though they are, does indeed give  players/crafters some (eventual) schematic control.
4.  'Weeklys'  resetting, annoying as it can be, does indeed generate more player/group  activity more often.
5.  'Heroics' , old & outdated as most are,  have indeed become more worthwhile to run again.
6.  'Queues'  for both PVP & GSF  seem to be popping more frequently (other than Ranked, but that could change tomorrow with 7.2 announcement )
7.  'Flashpoints'  are ALL finally being run again,  instead of just  spHammerStation  on repeat.
8.  'Operations' are ALL finally being run again, instead of just  NiM nefra  on repeat.
9.  'ALTs' , while still important to gamer continuation (and schizophrenia   ) , don't seem to be obsessed about as much as MAIN toons.
10.  'Content' , while still  underwritten/underdeveloped/underfunded , is actually very abumdant for a NEW player starting from scratch with 2 'combat styles'.

*Honestly, if  BioWare could just...

• fix Crafting
• tweak Economy
• open Space to PVE (combat, mining, & exploration)
• make Companions unique & customizable again (both in appearance and in commands)
• design Quests/Story-arcs  with more RPG type depth, same as missions like 'HK//Theoretika' , 'Z0-OM unlock', & 'Shroud/Macrobinoculars'
• implement 'sandbox' type Planet (for building guild-cities, allowing player-run events, & encouraging more open-world PVP 24/7 ---like ESO does with 'Cyrodiil' )

...then SWTOR could still, after 10+ years,  end up being best SW game ever!

1) How did you come to this conclusion? The galactic seasons have nothing to do with the 7.0 changes that went through.  Galactic Season 1 started in 6.x and worked out just fine.  Nothing that 7.0+ did made galactic season more enjoyable or the other way around.  It's just a task sheet for more goodies, that works in either system regardless of how loot is handled.

2) Again how did you come to that conclusion? For a good portion of 7.0 flashpoints were worthless.  (Still are) you would get your green gear to 324, pvp to 326, and then nim nef till 330.  It was just one way that was optimal.  At least in 6.x you could just do w/e and get gear.  So if we're talking about giving more choice, 6.x was way better than 7.0.

3) I must have missed something, but how are crafters even playing into this? Please don't say, well you have to deconstruct gear... All Bioware did was take away control in 7.0 by removing modded gear, and are now giving it back to us, via credit sink, and having to have actually needed to farm ops for the 330 gear.

4) Does it?  What's your proof? The resets are just annoying, and I'm not sure how they help. 

5) The only reason people do weeklys heroics are for resource matrix, or conquest.  When you attach a mandatory gear currency to them, yea they kind of become important.  However there were other ways this could have been handled. Without making this and WB runs more or less mandatory for resource matrix currency. 

6) Maybe?  I don't know.  Perhaps on the server your playing.  I don't know how true this is for everyone else.  But I admit, I didn't really pay attention to it before. 

7) Honestly I've still more or less avoided FPs because why? The gear is inferior to the pvp gear you could of gotten or the ops gear, the rewards are trash for the time invested, what's the point? If guildies need help, sure, otherwise why waste the time?  I suppose the people that hate raiding, and pvp, it's something, but what % of people is that, that hate pvp, hate ops, but love flash points?  I imagine most of those casual players just stick to casual solo play, and don't go rusing into FPs for sub par gear. 

8.) Watchdog farm replaced Nim Nef, and we've add DF / DP tech frag runs into the mix, while dropping TC.  So bold and different.... not.

9) I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

10) This is just lol.  New players have lots of content... yea cause they're new.  Holy cow...

Edited November 8, 2022 by Setta

[Nee-Elder]

23 minutes ago, Setta said:

1)  The galactic seasons have nothing to do with the 7.0 changes that went through.

I'm aware of that , but i was including them as just another commentary on the current state of the game and the overall direction  BioWare has been taking things....considering they have so little (from EA) to work with.

Continuing  'Galactic Seasons'  is pretty much the only poor card they have to play.  Doesn't anyone else see the  purposeful irony of naming it: 'G.A.M.E.' ?!?!?! 

23 minutes ago, Setta said:

1) How did you come to this conclusion?

Just an opinion, based on playing the game.  Nothing more.

23 minutes ago, Setta said:

3) I must have missed something, but how are crafters even playing into this?

Because of  'Hyde & Zeek'  (schematics for mods) .

23 minutes ago, Setta said:

4) Does it?  What's your proof? The resets are just annoying,

Again, just purely observational. (only BioWare has the 'metrics'  proof )

And you saw in the sentence where i literally used the same word "annoying" as you did, right?

23 minutes ago, Setta said:

6) Maybe?  I don't know.  Perhaps on the server your playing. 

This is on STAR FORGE server yep. (at all tmes of the day/night )

23 minutes ago, Setta said:

7) Honestly I've still more or less avoided FPs because why? The gear is inferior to the pvp gear you could of gotten or the ops gear, the rewards are trash for the time invested, what's the point? If guildies need help, sure, otherwise why waste the time?

Because, imo,  there's still  FUN to be had (gear drops are fine in  MM's ) .   Of course, i'm also one of those weirdos  who still enjoys  MM  Uprisings  too.

23 minutes ago, Setta said:

 and we've add DF / DP tech frag runs into the mix, while dropping TC.  So bold and different.... not.

That's ^ a fair point  but doesn't bother me as much tbh.  -- Oh and nice sarcasm too! (snark recognizes snark  )

23 minutes ago, Setta said:

10) This is just lol.    Holy cow...

i had a feeling  that #10 would garner some interesting reactions & replies.

As my ole pal  VADER might say:  All too easy.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Nee-Elder
Reason: multi-quoting is sort of a pain still on these new forums

[Setta]

24 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i had a feeling  that #10 would garner some interesting reactions & replies.

As my ole pal  VADER might say:  All too easy.

Ahh so this whole thing was a troll post.  Got it, well you got me.  /clap

[Nee-Elder]

44 minutes ago, Setta said:

Ahh so this whole thing was a troll post.  Got it, well you got me.  /clap

nah, not the whole thing ...and not even  that #10  entirely.

But i do admit that, as i was typing the #10 , i realized how  "obvious" it sounded.

And so yes, the  semi-troll  in me left it as---can't resist another SW reference---somewhat of.....

Edited November 8, 2022 by Nee-Elder
Reason: just cuz 5% was "bait", doesn't negate the rest!

[bluehufsa]

12 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

 

  I'd love to see the return of a few of the old companions (not just Lana or Theron).  I'd also like to see some more of the interactions we use to have as well.  (Some could be repeatable).  

 

Me too! Plus

some dialogues between the companions who knew each other: Qizen Fess & Mako, Risha & Vette, Doc & Kalyio

some dialogues between companions with similar backgrounds: Akaavi & Torian, Nadia & Kira, Nadia, Kira & Guss Tuno , Ashara & Lord Scourge

some of the class companions involved in the story: Felix Iresso is still a Republic soldier, yet he doesn't appear in any situation involving the Republic military (for example). 

 

I know, not all classes have all companions, but that is not really impossible to solve, isn't it? 

[OlBuzzard]

8 hours ago, bluehufsa said:

Me too! Plus

some dialogues between the companions who knew each other: Qizen Fess & Mako, Risha & Vette, Doc & Kalyio

some dialogues between companions with similar backgrounds: Akaavi & Torian, Nadia & Kira, Nadia, Kira & Guss Tuno , Ashara & Lord Scourge

some of the class companions involved in the story: Felix Iresso is still a Republic soldier, yet he doesn't appear in any situation involving the Republic military (for example). 

 

I know, not all classes have all companions, but that is not really impossible to solve, isn't it? 

Agreed!  It's kind of like we're missing a part of the picture right now!!

AND  (additionally): I wish we could see interactions with some of the new acquaintances (if we so chose).  For example:  The Smuggler and Kira Carsen! 😉

(I know ... yet another shameless plug!)  😜

Edited November 9, 2022 by OlBuzzard

[akdonkey]

Forcing weeklies and dailies suck. I ran the dailies for companion gear back when Yavin hit. Not anymore. They Switched back to the Ridiculous grind feast is just Lazy on the Developers part. They had the most progressive forward thinking gear system before rolling back to the mundane gear grind. Now already upping the gear by 2 points. See it's a total waste of time to bother with gear again.

[Nee-Elder]

3 hours ago, akdonkey said:

 They had the most progressive forward thinking gear system before rolling back to the mundane gear grind. Now already upping the gear by 2 points.

See it's a total waste of time to bother with gear again.

Look i mean, while i've still entered the "acceptance" phase with my OP ,  i also can't disagree with you there ^ .

I'm not a big fan of  gear-grinds  either tbh.

But  it's gotta be  cuz of  EA neglect , so  BioWare just figures:  "Well, what else can we do with zero budget  besides  more  number-crunching?"

[OlBuzzard]

6 hours ago, akdonkey said:

Forcing weeklies and dailies suck. I ran the dailies for companion gear back when Yavin hit. Not anymore. They Switched back to the Ridiculous grind feast is just Lazy on the Developers part. They had the most progressive forward thinking gear system before rolling back to the mundane gear grind. Now already upping the gear by 2 points. See it's a total waste of time to bother with gear again.

I'm not so sure I'd call it "forcing" ...  BUT one thing is for certain:  there is LITTLE else to do!

Oh well ..  I guess I'll hope back into that hamster wheel for a bit and see if I get dizzy enough to get a buzz!  (sorry about the cheap pun) 😇

[eabevella]

On 11/9/2022 at 1:18 AM, Nee-Elder said:

I've finally come around to understand BioWare's reasoning (and wreckoning --pun intended  ) behind  recent 7.0 era & gearing.

And so...as much as it pains me to say this:  i agree with this current iteration & direction of SWTOR.*

Here's why:

1.  'Galactic Seasons' , hamster-wheel  that it is , does indeed make playing/grinding  more enjoyable.
2.  'Currency' tab , bloated & overloaded as it is,  does indeed give players/grinders more choice.
3.  'Hyde & Zeek' , hidden & gated though they are, does indeed give  players/crafters some (eventual) schematic control.
4.  'Weeklys'  resetting, annoying as it can be, does indeed generate more player/group  activity more often.
5.  'Heroics' , old & outdated as most are,  have indeed become more worthwhile to run again.
6.  'Queues'  for both PVP & GSF  seem to be popping more frequently (other than Ranked, but that could change tomorrow with 7.2 announcement )
7.  'Flashpoints'  are ALL finally being run again,  instead of just  spHammerStation  on repeat.
8.  'Operations' are ALL finally being run again, instead of just  NiM nefra  on repeat.
9.  'ALTs' , while still important to gamer continuation (and schizophrenia   ) , don't seem to be obsessed about as much as MAIN toons.
10.  'Content' , while still  underwritten/underdeveloped/underfunded , is actually very abumdant for a NEW player starting from scratch with 2 'combat styles'.

*Honestly, if  BioWare could just...

• fix Crafting
• tweak Economy
• open Space to PVE (combat, mining, & exploration)
• make Companions unique & customizable again (both in appearance and in commands)
• design Quests/Story-arcs  with more RPG type depth, same as missions like 'HK//Theoretika' , 'Z0-OM unlock', 'Reclaimed Treasure for Talos', 'Shroud/Macrobinoculars' , etc.
• implement 'sandbox' type Planet (for building guild-cities, allowing player-run events, & encouraging more open-world PVP 24/7 ---like ESO does with 'Cyrodiil' )

...then SWTOR could still, after 10+ years,  end up being best SW game ever!

5. Heroics are not worthwhile unless you play 100% solo. There are faster ways to grind the rewards given by Heroics.

7. Flashpoints pop slower. And it's still Hammer station spam or *see Black Talon pops, instant drops group*. It's actually worse due to BT/Essels being there because now more people decline a pop the moment they see a ~lv10 in the group.

8. Operations... yeah, no NiM Nefra grind thank the Force but it's DF/DP grind 24/7 now... have you seen the fleet chat? It's way worse than NiM Neffy spam/grind because any warm body can pug a DF/DP tf run.

9. I don't know why you care about people who spend double, triple, xxple time on the game. Let people have alts. Some see them as equal important. The way I see it, people who love alts spend a lot of time on their toons. A lot of those people spend $$ on their toons for story/rp purpose. Why discourage them?

10. "Contents" for a new player is 90% Class-KOTxx and 10% 6.0-7.0 "story" that you can finish in a weekend or two. 10% is being generous. We are talking about hundred of hours of contents vs. ~40min long 7.0 "story" (I record the cutscene, not making that up) lol. Also a new player can't even have 2 combat styles from the start. You can't serious think 7.0 can claim any credit regarding "abundant" story content for new players. In fact, I've seen new players praising the class stories from time to time everywhere. I've yet to see any new player in game chat or other forums saying how good the latest story "content" is.

 

[Nee-Elder]

6 minutes ago, eabevella said:

9. I don't know why you care about people who spend double, triple, xxple time on the game. Let people have alts. Some see them as equal important. The way I see it, people who love alts spend a lot of time on their toons. A lot of those people spend $$ on their toons for story/rp purpose.

Why discourage them?

huh ?   Who says  i "care"  and how exactly am i  "discourging"  anyone lol ?

i have 24  alts myself  , so i have no problem with  alts.   In fact, i purposely  avoided  choosing any  2nd combat-styles  because i enjoy  logging/playing my alts.

What i said was: It seems like players aren't as  OBSESSED with alts as much now.   Just my opinion of course, based on my own recent observations & conversations with  friends, guildmates, groupmates, randoms, etc.   --  In the past, BioWare literally said:  "If you're bored, go play ALTs!"   Now, with 2nd combat-styles & such, i don't believe the game is strictly  alts or bust anymore.  That's all i meant.

Disagree with my assessment?  Fine, np.  But  somehow equate that opinion to now  i'm  "discouraging"  players?!?!

smh

[eabevella]

2 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

huh ?   Who says  i "care"  and how exactly am i  "discourging"  anyone lol ?

i have 24  alts myself  , so i have no problem with  alts.   In fact, i purposely  avoided  choosing any  2nd combat-styles  because i enjoy  logging/playing my alts.

What i said was: It seems like players aren't as  OBSESSED with alts as much now.   Just my opinion of course, based on my own recent observations & conversations with  friends, guildmates, groupmates, randoms, etc.   --  In the past, BioWare literally said:  "If you're bored, go play ALTs!"   Now, with 2nd combat-styles & such, i don't believe the game is strictly  alts or bust anymore.  That's all i meant.

Disagree with my assessment?  Fine, np.  But  somehow equate that opinion to now  i'm  "discouraging"  players?!?!

smh

OK. Glad to know.

Just change "you" to "bioware" because they certainly doesn't like people having alts.

[Nee-Elder]

2 minutes ago, eabevella said:

OK. Glad to know.

Just change "you" to "bioware" because they certainly doesn't like people having alts.

ahhh i see ,  so you meant  "you"  as in the non-descript generic [BioWare]  sense,  not necessarily  ME the OP of this thread you quoted?

No worries  and see this is why  typed (no tone)  forums, as fun as they are,  can also be very very easy to misperceive. 

[DarthSpekulatius]

1 hour ago, eabevella said:

OK. Glad to know.

Just change "you" to "bioware" because they certainly doesn't like people having alts.

what makes you think that? I think have never seen any Game that is more alt friendly then SWTOR is.

[eabevella]

1 hour ago, DarthSpekulatius said:

what makes you think that? I think have never seen any Game that is more alt friendly then SWTOR is.

As in compared to pre-7.0 (edit: ok, 6.0 to be precise). The 7.0 gear system and the increase of weekly conquest from 50k to 100k are both very unfriendly to people who actually work on their alts/guilds (instead of letting them rot... like most of my alts).

This is just the official announcement, I'm too lazy to search individual rant threads:

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/914776-70-conquest-changes/

Edited November 10, 2022 by eabevella

[ThanderSnB]

1 hour ago, eabevella said:

As in compared to pre-7.0 (edit: ok, 6.0 to be precise). The 7.0 gear system and the increase of weekly conquest from 50k to 100k are both very unfriendly to people who actually work on their alts/guilds (instead of letting them rot... like most of my alts).

This is just the official announcement, I'm too lazy to search individual rant threads:

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/914776-70-conquest-changes/

They may have discouraged finishing conquest on so many alts, but alts provide many other benefits including:

• Getting around 3x weekly limit and operation lockouts
• The eight class stories - achievements for finishing all of them on each planet + Legendary flair + Heroic Moment special abilities + Class Buffs & Emotes
• Legacy system - global unlocks that apply to all alts + species unlocks after leveling one to 50 + shared reputation & decorations between all alts

Even with gearing, Hyde and Zeek allows alts to be mostly geared in minutes (the time it takes to buy & transfer mods to the alt). An alt with 330 weapons and armor, 320 accessories, 326 implants is good enough to do everything except R4-Anomaly.

Also, conquest on alts is still 1000 tech fragments per alt. If you finish conquest on main, it's always worth it to switch to an alt for those bonuses. If you do conquest on two alts a day, 14 a week, it's 13000 extra tech fragments compared to playing one main. Even if you only like one combat style or discipline, it's to your benefit to level multiples to take advantage of conquest. For example, you could have four Lightning Sorcerers.

Edited November 10, 2022 by ThanderSnB

[DarthSpekulatius]

1 hour ago, eabevella said:

As in compared to pre-7.0 (edit: ok, 6.0 to be precise). The 7.0 gear system and the increase of weekly conquest from 50k to 100k are both very unfriendly to people who actually work on their alts/guilds (instead of letting them rot... like most of my alts).

This is just the official announcement, I'm too lazy to search individual rant threads:

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/914776-70-conquest-changes/

it's more friendly towards people who do alts then towards people who don't, Alt users still get rewards for their 700.000'th conquest Point.
people who get 700.000 CQ on their main don't get a Reward after the first 100.000.

you made the point for how alt-friendly SWTOR is instead of the other way around.

[afwhoefuwov]

Their intent is good, their executions are not.  But given time, hopefully things will improve.