Planned Balance Changes for 7.1.1

[NeoBlakkrstal]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:31 PM, ChrisDurel said:

Hello everyone,

 

Chris here again, Gameplay Designer on SWTOR. I wanted to share with you some upcoming balance changes planned for 7.1.1 (Jackie mentioned it in this thread). I’ve spoken of our post 7.0 balance plan in the past, and if you are curious about that and our philosophy going forward with regards to balance, you can find that here.

 

With 7.1.1, we are mostly focused on healer balance and various QoL (quality of life) improvements across the classes. We’ve taken a lot of your feedback and applied that to the changes we are making in 7.1.1. This includes changes to every healer with Operatives / Scoundrel, Mercenaries / Commandos, and Sorcerers / Sages in the form of balance adjustments, passive mod redesigns, and QoL improvements. In many cases, we’ve adjusted their HPS (heal per second) output to be higher, as we noticed they weren’t reaching our internal targets. Operatives, while their healing is being brought down in some cases, are being brought up in others. Our goal with this change is to equalize healer HPS across all combat styles while retaining their individual class identity.

 

In addition to balance changes across healers, we’ve also improved some survivability in a few classes. While these may seem to be small adjustments, we feel these changes will bring them more in line with other classes.

 

Finally, we have continued to adjust our DPS (damage per second) balance across multiple combat styles for 7.1.1, with the intention to narrow the gap between the top and bottom DPS classes. We continue to strive for making every combat style viable while retaining what makes it unique.

 

We are also introducing two new Tacticals for 7.1.1 to replace old Tactical items that were removed with 7.0. One is for Advanced Prototype / Tactics Powertechs and the other is for Madness / Balance Sorcerers / Sages.

 

7.1.1 will not be available on PTS, but you can see a list of tentative changes below. We’d love to hear your thoughts and feedback on our direction, as we appreciated all your contributions to 7.1.

 

Here are some of the balance changes you can expect from 7.1.1. Note that all of this is subject to change.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

Operative / Scoundrel

 

 

• Evasion / Dodge now additionally lowers threat by a moderate amount and lasts one second longer.
• Quick Countermeasures and Sly Countermeasures now additionally grant 60% AOE damage reduction while Evasion is active.
• This now additionally works with the Evasive Screen / Skedaddle mod.

 

 

Medicine / Sawbones

 

• Reduced the Kolto Burst mod’s healing on secondary targets by 50%.
• The Kolto Stim mod now additionally grants 10% increased healing to Kolto Injection.
• Reduced the healing received bonus given by Nano Mark mod from 20% to 10%.
• Redesigned “Defensive Injection” mod, which is now called “Reactive Substance”, and does the following:
• Kolto Injection applies a reactive substance to the target for 10 seconds. If the target is dealt damage during this time, they are healed. Stacks up to 2 times.

 

 

Concealment / Scrapper

 

• Reduced the bonus critical hit damage while Stim Boost is active from 20% to 15%.
• The Tactical “Acid Lash” no longer improves the damage of Acid Blade.
• Increased the duration of the Advanced Stealth mod effect from 4 to 6 seconds.
• Increased the duration of the Tactical Critical / Upper Critical mod effect from 4 to 6 seconds.
• Increased the damage reduction per stack from the Defensive Stance mod from 3% to 5%.
• The Best Defense mod now adds a life steal component to Crippling Slice / Shank Shot.
• Increased the movement speed bonus granted by Quick Countermeasures from 50% to 100%.

 

 

Sniper / Gunslinger

Marksmanship / Sharpshooter

 

• Target Acquired / Illegal Mods now generates a charge of Laze Target / Smuggler’s Luck whenever it is activated.
• Lazer Focus / Lucky Thoughts no longer relies on critically hitting the target to lower the cooldown on Laze Target / Smuggler’s Luck but instead has a 50% chance to do so whenever dealing damage.

 

 

Mercenary / Commando

 

• Bodyguard / Combat Medic
• Increased the healing done by Rapid Scan, Emergency Scan, Progressive Scan, Kolto Missile and Kolto Pods by 2%.
• Increased the critical healing bonus given by Warden from 5% to 10%.
• Increased the healing bonus given by Integrated Scanning mod from 3% to 5%.
• Increased the critical chance bonus to Healing Scan from Critical Scanning mod from 5% to 10%.

 

 

Powertech / Advanced Prototype

Advanced Prototype

 

• Magnetic Blast / Tactical Surge damage reduced by 14%.
• Power Burst / High Yield Explosives mod stacks damage bonus reduced to 4% per stack down from 5% per stack. (total of 16% damage bonus to thermal det down from 20%).
• Serrated Blades damage reduced to 5% down from 15%. (combined into prototype rail)
• Blood Tracker / Triumph damage increase to bleeding targets is reduced to 3% down from 5%.
• Lingering Heat / Superheated Cells damage reduced by 50%.
• New Tactical: Powered Detonator (Burst)

   

  Thermal Detonator remains dormant on the target for 12 seconds, and can be detonated by Magnetic Blast, Energy Burst or Rail Shot. Depending on which is used, a different effect is applied.
   
  Magnetic Blast: Slows the target by 50% for 10 seconds.
   
  Energy Burst: The cooldown of Rocket Punch is reset and your next Rocket Punch costs no heat.
   
  Rail Shot: Your next Shoulder Cannon missile deals 20% more damage.

   

 

 

Pyrotech / Plasmatech

 

• Charged Gauntlet's / Hyper Assault Cell’s critical damage bonus for Searing Wave, Flaming Fist, Scorch, and Immolate is now 10% down from 15%.
• Reduced the damage bonus given from Burnout to Immolate / Plasma Flare from 40% to 30%.

 

 

Sorcerer / Sage

Corruption / Seer

 

• Increasing the healing given by Penetrating Darkness / Clairvoyance to Renewal and Resurgence / Rejuvenate from 10% to 15%.
• Dark Heal / Benevolence now gains a 60% healing increase up from 50% from Dark Concentration / Altruism.
• Each stack of Corrupted Bastion / Resurging Power increases the healing done by Dark Heal / Benevolence, Rally / Deliverance, Dark Infusion / Keeper of the Peace by 5% per stack up from 3% per stack.

 

 

Madness / Balance

 

• New Tactical: Killing Field (AOE)
• Death Field slows targets it affects by 50%. Force Storm deals 15% more damage to slowed targets.

 

 

•  
  • Disintegration - Death Field and Death Brand grant Vitiate's Malice, giving Force Lightning 20% Lifesteal for 12 seconds.
  • Force Horrors - Increase periodic damage from 15% to 20%.
  • Lightning Barrage - Force Lightning reduced damage changed to -20% from -25%.
  • Tempest of Rho - Correctly applies 50% chance for Force Lightning to trigger periodic effects down from 75%

 

 

 

 

Lightning / Telekinesis

 

• Reverberating Force - Critical hit damage bonus has been reduced to 12% down from 15%.
• Thundering Blast - Second arc of damage deals 20% of Turbulence's damage down from 25%.
• Storm watch damage decreased by 4%
• Halted Offensive cast time increased from 2.5 seconds to 3.0 seconds. Alacrity still affects cast time.
• Decrease Halted Offensive damage by 15%.
• Convection - Thundering Blast grants Reserved Darkness, making Dark Heal an instant cast and increasing its healing by 30%. Stacks up to 2 times.

 

 

 

 

 

Assassin/ Shadow

Deception / Infiltration

 

• The damage done by the Awakened Flame tactical has been increased by 10%.
• Changed Severing Slash to additionally grant damage reduction per target hit.
• Redesigned "May Cause Injury" Tactical to grant the AOE version of Discharge more often. It now reads:
  Gaining a stack of Voltage / Clairvoyance causes your next Discharge / Force Breach to arc to multiple targets.

 

 

Hatred / Serenity

 

• Changed the Two Time Trouble tactical so that it can no longer tick from Saber Strike damage.
• Fulguration / Rebounding Force now restores 5 Force when Lightning Charge / Force Technique deals damage, up from 3.
• Increased the damage bonus given by Pervasive Death / Pervasive Balance to Death Field / Force in Balance from 10% to 15%.
• Hungering Force / Longing Force now additionally grants a critical hit damage bonus of 5%.
• Increased lifesteal amount from Severing Slash from 25% to 50%

 

 

Darkness / Kinetic Combat

 

• Changed the Severing Slash effect for Darkness to root its target for 2 seconds, followed by a 3 second slow. Severing Slash no longer grants damage reduction.

 

 

 

We’re looking forward to your feedback! As Jackie mentioned, we’ll have more details to share about 7.1.1 in general soon!

 

-Chris

 

You wanted our feedback, here's mine. The DPS Nerf sucks.

[AdsAillard]

6 hours ago, DJKylix said:

Little question to the devs: what happened to the promised AoE tactical for Madness ? Was really looking forward to the return of the Slow Mercy spread (i.e. Vanquish/Demolish jumping over to Deathmark-affected enemies) ... sad it didn't make it in the patch. I was this week specifically accumulating tech-frags so to buy that new Madness tactical ...

It's in the final patch notes.

Curiously, the changes on The Awakened Flame don't seem to have made it to this patch...

[AdsAillard]

On 8/30/2022 at 11:31 PM, ChrisDurel said:

The damage done by the Awakened Flame tactical has been increased by 10%.

.... This didn't make into the patch notes by accident or did you drop the idea? Or did you move from this into a distribution of the benefit into the changes (previously not mentioned) to Overcharged Saber/Battle Readiness (which, btw, has the name wrong on patch-notes for Infiltration) & Potent Perception/Reckless Voltage?

[Laeas]

Same old junk, SWTOR  devs nerfing dps again and calling it class balancing.

this is why players leave games, and the "tactical" are no good, like the "new" marauder tactical is was total garbage.

Devs take a look at the post popularity it is at like 2 stars, does that "TELL" you something?

[AdjeYo]

47 minutes ago, Laeas said:

Same old junk, SWTOR  devs nerfing dps again and calling it class balancing.

this is why players leave games, and the "tactical" are no good, like the "new" marauder tactical is was total garbage.

Devs take a look at the post popularity it is at like 2 stars, does that "TELL" you something?

Do you mean Shard of Mortis? The thing that made Carnage Marauder a quite high parsing and viable spec? Yeah that was total garbage...

[TheMightyIokua]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:20 AM, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Hello everyone, 

 

Shabir here and I am a Gameplay Designer on SWTOR. I wanted to start by saying we appreciate everyone for taking the time and effort to give feedback on the changes. I wanted to explain some of the changes we are making in the upcoming patch: 

 

Lightning/Telekinetics:

• Patch Notes:  

• Convection/Clamoring Force - Critical hit damage bonus goes to 12% (down from 15%).

• Thundering Blast/Turbulence - Second arc of damage deals 20% of Turbulence's damage (down from 25%).  

• Storm watch damage decreased by 4%

• Halted Offensive/Power of the Force cast time increased to 3.0 seconds (up from 2.5 seconds). Alacrity still affects cast time. 

• Decrease Halted Offensive’s/Power of the Force’s damage by 15%.

• Convection/Clamoring Force - Thundering Blast/ Turbulence grants Reserved Darkness/Reserved Light, making Dark Heal/Benevolence an instant cast and increasing its healing by 30%. Stacks up to 2 times.

• Thunder and Lightning/Incoming Turbulence ability mod have their damage increased to 10% (up from 5%) and includes Halted Offensive/ Power of the Force.

Developer Feedback:

• Lightning/Telekinetics is exceeding our DPS targets as a Ranged Burst spec role. For this reason, we are making the following changes:

  • Halted Offensive/Power of the Force cast time increased to 3.0 seconds (up from 2.5 seconds).

    • An increase to cast time allows players to not feel as if they have to hard cast this ability especially in situations that require mobility. 

  • Decrease Halted Offensive’s/Power of the Force’s damage by 15%

    • This change was made to bring the ability’s damage into line to its intended damage value and bring the Ranged Burst spec’s damage correctly into line with the DPS targets. 

  • Convection/Clamoring Force - Thundering Blast/Turbulence grants Reserved Darkness/Reserved Light, making Dark Heal/Benevolence an instant cast and increasing its healing by 30%. Stacks up to 2 times.

    • The change to the Convection/Clamoring Force passive is made in addition to the currently existing passive. The new buff is not replacing the old version of Convection/Clamoring Force. In the future, we will make changes like these much clearer. 

  • Thunder and Lightning/Incoming Turbulence ability mod have their damage increased to 10% up from 5% and includes Halted Offensive/Power of the Force.

    • This change is being made to make the burst option more appealing in comparison to the sustain and utility based option. 

 

Madness/ Balance: 

• Patch Notes: 

• Disintegration/Critical Kinesis - Death Field/Force in Balance and Death Brand/Shifted Balance grant Vitiate's Malice/Warden’s Vigor, giving Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw 20% Lifesteal for 12 seconds. 

• Force Horrors/Drain Thoughts - Increase periodic damage to 20% (up from 15%). 

• Lightning Barrage/Telekinetic balance - Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw reduced damage changed to -20% from -25%.

• Tempest of Rho - Correctly applies 50% chance for Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw to trigger periodic effects down from 75%. 

 

• Developer Feedback:

  • The change to the Tempest of Rho Tactical was designed to first bring it in line with its original power level. And in addition to that, changes were made to distribute that DPS back into the class itself. 

  • We also wanted to discourage players from prioritizing Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw over Lightning Strike/ Disturbance when proced in order to get the best DPS output. 

 

Advanced Prototype/Tactics:

• Patch Notes: 

• Magnetic Blast/Tactical Surge damage reduced by 14%. 

• Power Burst/High Yield Explosives mod stacks damage bonus reduced to 4% per stack down from 5% per stack. (total of 16% damage bonus to thermal det down from 20%). 

• Serrated Blades damage reduced to 5% down from 15%. (combined into Prototype Rail/High Friction Bolts)

• Blood Tracker/Triumph damage increase to bleeding targets is reduced to 3% down from 5%. 

• Lingering Heat/Superheated Cells damage reduced by 50%.

 

• Developer Feedback: 

  • Advanced Prototype/Tactics is exceeding our DPS targets as a Melee Burst spec role. For this reason we made the following changes: 

  • Magnetic Blast/Tactical Surge damage reduced by 14%. 

    • Magnetic Blast/Tactical Surge damage was reduced to lower sustain and reduce the amount of DPS this ability contributed to an overall parse. 

    • Magnetic Blast/Tactical Surge is intended to be a filler ability and not make up a majority of the DPS output on a burst melee class. 

  • Power Burst/High Yield Explosives mod stacks damage bonus reduced to 4% per stack down from 5% per stack. (total of 16% damage bonus to thermal det down from 20%). 

    • The change to Power Burst/High Yield Explosives mod was made to bring the mod more in line with the intended DPS increase a player should receive from a burst DPS mod. 

  • Serrated Blades damage reduced to 5% down from 15%. (combined into Prototype Rail/High Friction Bolts)

    • Much like the Magnetic Blast/Tactical Surge changes this change was made to reduce the sustain of the spec.

  • Blood Tracker/Triumph damage increase to bleeding targets is reduced to 3% down from 5%. 

    • The change to Blood Tracker/Triumph was also made to reduce the sustain of the class. 

  • Lingering Heat/Superheated Cells damage reduced by 50%.

    • The change to Lingering Heat/Superheated Cells mod was made to bring the mod further in line with what a sustain mod should give within a burst melee spec.
       

What will happen after 7.1.1: 

 

• We are going to be taking a look at the tank balance within the game as well as a variety of quality of life changes for various classes. 

• We will be taking a look at other mods across classes and balancing them in order to make them more competitive with the go-to options players tend to take. 

I just wanted to close by thanking everyone for their feedback and hope to keep seeing more of it in the future. I hope these notes added some additional transparency on the changes and that the feedback keeps on coming. And as always balance is an ongoing process and we will keep you all updated with class changes coming your way in the future.

Take it easy,
Shabir

On Oct. 14th, Friday, you released this update to "explain reasonings" behind the changes.
In this Oct 14th post, you did NOT include any explanations for Serenity/Hatred changes including the adjustment to Two Time Trouble and Saber Strike not proc'ing Sever Force damage.

This change absolutely cripples the Serenity/Hatred rotation.
DO YOU EVEN PLAY THE GAME OR THIS CLASS??? WHAT ARE YOU THINKING???
You effectively destroy the rotation of this spec with this change. The addition of 10% overall crit to the TTT tactical does nothing because Saber Strike exists as a melee attack that costs no force.

Clearly you do not play your own specs and classes.
If you did, you would know that the 2 DOT powers in the rotation costs 40 Force.
Force in Balance and Squelch costs 60 Force.
Thats 100 Force, and its all a part of the rotation....only one time through!!!!

Saber Strike exists to maintatin dps on the target while Force regenerates.
After all, this is a DOT/Sustain spec.

What are you doing???

You are completely destroying the rotation and forcing us to use Serenity Strike/Leeching Strike (25 Force) or Double Strike/Thrash (20 Force) in Saber Strike place.

Again....
This isnt about the damage. You can reduce that and most if not all of us would be ok with it.
Its the fact that you are forcing us to use a melee ability that costs 20 or 25 Force within a rotation that already costs 100 Force one time through.

Saber Strike is a critical filler ability that allows us to recover force.

Please rethink this absurd and terrible idea.

Edited October 18, 2022 by TheMightyIokua

[TheCherryFamily]

I am so disappointed. Why? You guys are ruining AP and Lightning when they were both just mid-tier. I don't understand why, I'm not even sure why I'm making this comment you guys clearly don't listen to the community. I have been patient with the trash ""Balance Changes"" you planned a few months ago, I had held out hopes you would see the community feedback. but you have shown me my hope was misplaced. I seriously expected better from you guys. First you gut Arsenal and now... I guess you had not been satisfied with killing one of my favorite classes, you needed to kill the other. I can't even be mad anymore, I'm just so disappointed this has honestly ruined my week (not that you seem to care) I genuinely can't believe this is happening. You have failed not just me, but every AP and Lightning player in this game. If I can say anything that you will hear, please reconsider and revert these nerfs, I beg you.

 

-Sharkise, the Depressed AP Main

[ZUHFB]

13 hours ago, TheMightyIokua said:

In this Oct 14th post, you did NOT include any explanations for Serenity/Hatred changes including the adjustment to Two Time Trouble and Saber Strike not proc'ing Sever Force damage.

This change absolutely cripples the Serenity/Hatred rotation.
DO YOU EVEN PLAY THE GAME OR THIS CLASS??? WHAT ARE YOU THINKING???
You effectively destroy the rotation of this spec with this change. The addition of 10% overall crit to the TTT tactical does nothing because Saber Strike exists as a melee attack that costs no force.

You are completely destroying the rotation and forcing us to use Serenity Strike/Leeching Strike (25 Force) or Double Strike/Thrash (20 Force) in Saber Strike place.

Saber Strike is a critical filler ability that allows us to recover force.

1. They did say that, spamming saber strike is not the intention of the tactical - it was never meant to do that, so they changed it.

2. What? They force people to use the abilities now? Instead of spamming saber strike?! Wow this is a terrible change, who wants to use abilities anyway? /s

3. The rotation will die, so just play the priority again? Hatred didn't have a rotation for a long time. Maybe the rotation will just change, but spamming the basic attack over actual abilities is just not good class design.

4. You'll still have to use saber strike, but I don't see the problem? Pyro also has to rapid shot? Most classes have to actually. Not an unheard concept.

[Mrgalaviz]

On 8/30/2022 at 8:40 PM, JackieKo said:

Hi everyone,

 

As Chris wrote in his post, these changes are tentative and we're looking for feedback. I understand that you all may have strong feelings about these, but we are asking if you can explain why you feel a certain way and in addition to that explain what a preferred solution or change would be.

 

Please keep your posts constructive as they help us understand your line of thinking and provides opportunity for your feedback to be reflected in any changes that could be made.

 

Thanks!

Jackie

 

seems like the community said what was on their minds about the nerf. everyone thinks the most of the class changes make no sense and are in some cases ridiculous, yet the class changes proceeded to happen. TK/lightning was fine now its not. scoundrel healing got punched in the mouth while commando/sage got very little. and removing serenitys severing force damage with saber strike? really?    

Edited October 18, 2022 by Mrgalaviz

[sithBracer]

Deception

• Energized Blade ability mod has been altered, it now reads:
  • “The cooldown of Reaping Strike is reduced by 6 seconds whenever you critically hit with a direct Force attack. Reaping Strike costs 10 additional Force.”

Ok first question, why?

Second question, why was this done in secret?

 

And seriously, can you please just stop trying to make severing slash a thing. It will NEVER be a thing. No one is going to take it. We didn't want it when it was free, do you seriously think we want it as a choice against shroud or WW? You made a useless and stupid ability that no one wants, get over it, cut your losses and move on. Stop pretending you can actually make it useful by adding a bell to it.

Edited October 18, 2022 by sithBracer

[TheMightyIokua]

6 hours ago, Mrgalaviz said:

seems like the community said what was on their minds about the nerf. everyone thinks the most of the class changes make no sense and are in some cases ridiculous, yet the class changes proceeded to happen. TK/lightning was fine now its not. scoundrel healing got punched in the mouth while commando/sage got very little. and removing serenitys severing force damage with saber strike? really?    

Agreed.

With Serenity/Hatred, it's not about the damage.
It's the fact that you cannot do your rotation beyond 8 casts anymore with current force usage.

This change has completely broken the rotation.

Unless you choose to continue to use Saber Strike with the Two Time Trouble tactical (pointless).
It's a complete waste given the fact that TTT only procs off of melee attacks (Double Strike/Thrash or Serenity Strike/Leeching Strike) that you don't have any force to cast any way.
Or use Saber Strike and waste the tactical altogether.

Edited October 18, 2022 by TheMightyIokua

[deiws]

3 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Deception

• Energized Blade ability mod has been altered, it now reads:
  • “The cooldown of Reaping Strike is reduced by 6 seconds whenever you critically hit with a direct Force attack. Reaping Strike costs 10 additional Force.”

Ok first question, why?

Second question, why was this done in secret?

 

And seriously, can you please just stop trying to make severing slash a thing. It will NEVER be a thing. No one is going to take it. We didn't want it when it was free, do you seriously think we want it as a choice against shroud or WW? You made a useless and stupid ability that no one wants, get over it, cut your losses and move on. Stop pretending you can actually make it useful by adding a bell to it.

It is horrible. It breaks the whole Energized Blade/Blade of Elements build. It was built around Vaulting Slash, now you cannot reasonable reset it, only decrease cooldown.

As an unannounced change this really sucks. I am down like 3k parsing on a dummy and Nefra, and the rotation is just ugly. It was centered around Vaulting Slash and resetting it, now it is just... random. My beloved Infiltration main is totally broken. It had no AoE whatsoever, now it does not have even burst DPS. Good job. I feel like crying, honestly.

[AdjeYo]

38 minutes ago, TheMightyIokua said:

Agreed.

With Serenity/Hatred, it's not about the damage.
It's the fact that you cannot do your rotation beyond 8 casts anymore with current force usage.

This change has completely broken the rotation.

Unless you choose to continue to use Saber Strike with the Two Time Trouble tactical (pointless).
It's a complete waste given the fact that TTT only procs off of melee attacks (Double Strike/Thrash or Serenity Strike/Leeching Strike) that you don't have any force to cast any way.
Or use Saber Strike and waste the tactical altogether.

The rotation is fine, you just can't spam Saber Strikes in the filler slot anymore (and double Death Field is no longer best for sustained, which is a good thing). You actually have to use Leeching and Trash now, which is a good thing. It's a shame that Maliciousness still seems to be a bit better than Hungering Force for sustained, since imo Maliciousness doesn't feel like it should be a sustained dps mod, more a thing for solo content where you get reliable kills. But ah well, at least Saber Strikes spam is gone.

[TheMightyIokua]

17 minutes ago, AdjeYo said:

The rotation is fine, you just can't spam Saber Strikes in the filler slot anymore (and double Death Field is no longer best for sustained, which is a good thing). You actually have to use Leeching and Trash now, which is a good thing. It's a shame that Maliciousness still seems to be a bit better than Hungering Force for sustained, since imo Maliciousness doesn't feel like it should be a sustained dps mod, more a thing for solo content where you get reliable kills. But ah well, at least Saber Strikes spam is gone.

I have been parsing nonstop since I have logged on today and the rotation is busted.
The changes go far beyond Saber Strike and TTT.
You can no longer use Force Potency/Recklessness reliable in the rotation.
You can cast it in your opener and then in the best case scenario the cooldown range is between 15-23 seconds depending on RNG. I have done this over maybe 30-40ish parses.

The rotation is broken.

[AdjeYo]

4 minutes ago, TheMightyIokua said:

I have been parsing nonstop since I have logged on today and the rotation is busted.
The changes go far beyond Saber Strike and TTT.
You can no longer use Force Potency/Recklessness reliable in the rotation.
You can cast it in your opener and then in the best case scenario the cooldown range is between 15-23 seconds depending on RNG. I have done this over maybe 30-40ish parses.

The rotation is broken.

I see parses from the patch keeping up Maliciousness for a full dummy kill, so that looks to work. Even if not, there's always Hungering Force and the rotation we had (and still have) without Maliciousness. Back to the rotation that Hatred has had, and doing well with, for years.

[TheMightyIokua]

34 minutes ago, AdjeYo said:

I see parses from the patch keeping up Maliciousness for a full dummy kill, so that looks to work. Even if not, there's always Hungering Force and the rotation we had (and still have) without Maliciousness. Back to the rotation that Hatred has had, and doing well with, for years.

I appreciate your optimism.
I will continue to test out my rotation/adjusted rotation.
But changes that change rotations probably should go to test server before going live.
Most of us are paying subscribers and we are paying to enjoy, not to test.

Edited October 18, 2022 by TheMightyIokua

[SpikeSaber]

btw nice job on lightning balance, it does less dps than in 7.0 now Well played , thanks for listening to our feedback. Perfect balance between Arsenal,Marksman&Lightning. All 3 specs are rock bottom tier.

[ZUHFB]

22 minutes ago, SpikeSaber said:

btw nice job on lightning balance, it does less dps than in 7.0 now Well played , thanks for listening to our feedback. Perfect balance between Arsenal,Marksman&Lightning. All 3 specs are rock bottom tier.

As they should be. The problem isn't that those specs are trash, its their DoT counterparts all are pretty... useless? They add barely anything take damage like a tank and just don't have enough damage. If Madness is BELOW lightning on a dummy parse, lightning is too strong or madness to weak. What they should've done is buff madness, io and vriulence so they can then go up the respective burst damage specs.

Otherwise their own philosophy makes no sense. Lightning will not be buffed unless madness gets a buff, and that is good.

[Failtima]

1 hour ago, ZUHFB said:

As they should be. The problem isn't that those specs are trash, its their DoT counterparts all are pretty... useless? They add barely anything take damage like a tank and just don't have enough damage. If Madness is BELOW lightning on a dummy parse, lightning is too strong or madness to weak. What they should've done is buff madness, io and vriulence so they can then go up the respective burst damage specs.

Otherwise their own philosophy makes no sense. Lightning will not be buffed unless madness gets a buff, and that is good.

So it's a good thing that both sorc/sage dps specs are now trash? Your logic eludes me on this.

[ZUHFB]

13 minutes ago, Failtima said:

So it's a good thing that both sorc/sage dps specs are now trash? Your logic eludes me on this.

Same, but it's not my logic. Look, a DoT range spec is supposed to do more damage ON PAPER than the burst variation (balancing principle of bioware and not something bad generally speaking), but what happens if the burst version does more? It gets nerfed lower than the DoT spec because this satisfies the ideology of their balancing. So without buffing madness first lightning will not receive a buff because it would be directly contradicting the direction they want to with balancing, they want: Meele DoT>Meele Burst>Range DoT>Range Burst, I think it was like 5% per tier.

That is also why Pyro and Anni have been meta for a long time and the only thing lethality has to offer is, you guessed it - damage. Problem is that neither Anni nor Pyro should actually be considered DoT specs for this evaluation because both simply do not have the loss DPS DoTs inherently have since their DoTs are either infinite, or very short. While a class like madness loses big time if DoTs have been applied and then the boss is immune this is not the case for either anni or pyro, they both don't HAVE to reapply their DoTs in a fight like operator X, while a class like virulence has this problem to a way bigger extend even if the DoTs don't get their full damage. The balancing wants to balance that out. If the burst spec outperforms the DoT spec why bother playing DoT?

My assumption is that they view this as bad game design and quite honestly do to. But I also don't think every comp should be able to kill every NiM boss because that makes NiM bosses even easier.

Edited October 19, 2022 by ZUHFB
-if

[sithBracer]

17 hours ago, deiws said:

It is horrible. It breaks the whole Energized Blade/Blade of Elements build. It was built around Vaulting Slash, now you cannot reasonable reset it, only decrease cooldown.

As an unannounced change this really sucks. I am down like 3k parsing on a dummy and Nefra, and the rotation is just ugly. It was centered around Vaulting Slash and resetting it, now it is just... random. My beloved Infiltration main is totally broken. It had no AoE whatsoever, now it does not have even burst DPS. Good job. I feel like crying, honestly.

Yeah it especially breaks the recklessness combo. From my experience we lose 2 auto crit reaping strikes per recklessness. 3k seems a little bit too much though. 

[MartiuSartorius]

On 10/19/2022 at 1:45 PM, ZUHFB said:

Same, but it's not my logic. Look, a DoT range spec is supposed to do more damage ON PAPER than the burst variation (balancing principle of bioware and not something bad generally speaking), but what happens if the burst version does more? It gets nerfed lower than the DoT spec because this satisfies the ideology of their balancing. So without buffing madness first lightning will not receive a buff because it would be directly contradicting the direction they want to with balancing, they want: Meele DoT>Meele Burst>Range DoT>Range Burst, I think it was like 5% per tier.

That is also why Pyro and Anni have been meta for a long time and the only thing lethality has to offer is, you guessed it - damage. Problem is that neither Anni nor Pyro should actually be considered DoT specs for this evaluation because both simply do not have the loss DPS DoTs inherently have since their DoTs are either infinite, or very short. While a class like madness loses big time if DoTs have been applied and then the boss is immune this is not the case for either anni or pyro, they both don't HAVE to reapply their DoTs in a fight like operator X, while a class like virulence has this problem to a way bigger extend even if the DoTs don't get their full damage. The balancing wants to balance that out. If the burst spec outperforms the DoT spec why bother playing DoT?

My assumption is that they view this as bad game design and quite honestly do to. But I also don't think every comp should be able to kill every NiM boss because that makes NiM bosses even easier.

Since when pyro doesnt need to reaply its dots? Scorch needs to be reaplied once every 2 rotation blocks and incendiary missile needs to be reaplied every rotational block.

I basicly agree that there is no need to make dot specs superior to burst specs, but for different reasons. Almost every dot spec has some kind of burst capability to meet current dps check in pve right now and there are no very short dps checks anymore. Also dot specs are usually better in aoe situations which alone should be enough of the advantige over burst specs. In my opinion all melee should parse little bit more than all ranged (but there are more things to be considered like passive damage, passive resource management improvements in acuall combat, raid utility etc.).

[ZUHFB]

55 minutes ago, MartiuSartorius said:

Since when pyro doesnt need to reaply its dots? Scorch needs to be reaplied once every 2 rotation blocks and incendiary missile needs to be reaplied every rotational block.

Ok: imagine a boss like operator IX each burst phase is 30s. So a Pyro PT, when precasting Scorch and Inci would be at exactly the scorch -> filler -> inci when doing the rotation, but it would be way better to do: filler -> filler -> filler instead. A class like virulence cannot do that, the DoTs last 24s with lingering 2 GCDs more, so thats 26.8s, when factoring in precasts it's exactly 24s until the next application which then you have a problem, spend two GCDs on DoTs just so you can cull once vs. series of shots lethal shot lethal shot -> some instant maybe, but that is obviously pretty bad. So the class loses DPS either way, way 1 is doing series of shots, way two is to apply DoTs. 

That is the problem of a real dot spec, and this is why with perfect uptime, aka a dummy parse, this spec should do good damage. 

This is not the case for pyro, if the phase would be 3s longer (which BTW, it IS after the 6th shield, since the offset is .5 of every shield) you don't actually reapply the DoTs but just filler instead because the DoTs are straight value loss and you'd rather not have them on if they don't tick. Obviously as a tank main I do not know exactly when it's worth and when it's not, but that is what an actual DPS player would know. 

[DarthEnrique]

Why is it the minority who don't provide proof of their claims is the ones listened to and then claiming they are giving feedback when they're not. Well, I won't be playing my lightning sorc/telekinetic sage now thanks to bioware making them unviable in NiM and HM... sigh Majority of says don't and we get the middle finger. Don't know why I keep subscribing to a game when they don't listen to the MAJORITY and not a minority who isn't showing any evidence of their claims that these specs are supposedly OP but then people who are showing evidence it's not (via parsley) aren't being listened to and everyone will see a significant drop in Lightning sorcs/telekinetic sage on there now cause they won't be in HM and NiMs now. Only good in SM now where it doesn't matter the parse. Good job Bioware. Definitely earned people saying "brb bio" when they have to go to the bathroom...

[DeannaVoyager]

Yeah. I feel like this game has turned from learning how to utilize any class in any content into learning how to play specific meta classes to clear content. The rest of the classes don't matter anymore and it makes the endgame really boring. 

 

There should be sort of a warning in the character creation screen when people try to create characters that won't be viable for endgame, so that they wouldn't waste time on learning it if endgame is what they want to do eventually.