Level sync is making me quit

[DWho]

Hi GoldenApolo,

 

To help us better understand your experience, can you tell us what your item rating was at the time?

 

Thanks.

 

Here is some data from Tython:

 

Gear: Tythonian Battler Offhand Blade (with +41 crit crystal), Satele Shan Sparing Lightsaber (with +41 crit crystal - no other mods), Apprentice Pummelers Headgear MK-1, Apprentice Pummelers Armguards MK-2, Apprentice Pummelers Chestguard MK-1, Apprentice Pummelers Guantlets MK-1, Tythonian Battler's Boots, Apprentice Pummelers Belt MK-1, Apprentice Pummelers Greaves MK-1: overall iRating = 12

 

Tython Level 10 (planet sync is 10)

 

Power: 16

Mastery: 261

Endurance: 156

Critical: 2 (+82 from crystals not working)

Accuracy: 6

 

Tython Level 11 (1 lvl above planet sync)

 

Power: 13

Mastery: 241

Endurance: 143

Critical: 2

Accuracy: 6

 

Power, Mastery, Endurance all went down when leveling up to level 11. Crit does not appear to be working correctly, at least from crystals. This is a very weak gear set and it is showing a drop on level up.

[Jursy]

I have a question. Did those stacks of mastery we used to get for having high gear really do anything? I've noticed those are gone and was wondering if that could be contributing to this level sync nightmare. Like another poster above, I was able to solo star fortresses with 275 gear and a level 30 Lana as healer with my scoundrel. Now I can't even get past the champions guarding the specialist's buffs post 7.0. Edited August 24, 2022 by Jursy

[Achnaattwo]

remember when, you asked a high level for help, Now your asking low levels to help, because they're Stronger . .YAY level Sync

[ReveredDead]

Level sync in itself is a great thing. It's SWTOR 7.0's level sync that's simply atrocious.

 

Exactly right. Cause in 6.X. Tertiary stats were not scaled. Crit was not scaled like it is now in 7.1a. So even thought it was level synched content. You could still hit harder with higher crit and slightly higher power and mastery in you had good gear. Now it seems it doesn't matter what gear you got on scaled areas. You are weaker and hit less DPS. Bioware truly screwed Swtor up with 7.0 in more ways than one.

[Darev]

Level sync, when it was first implemented, was a great thing for me, and for people that didn't like max'd out players ganking us on the pvp servers (who refused to transfer to PVE servers because RL friends liked the PVP servers).

 

Now, for me at least, that issue no longer matters as the PVP / PVE servers are no more and you can bounce back and forth as you desire.

 

One benefit of level sync that still remains is earning XP, which I didn't see specifically mentioned in this thread. Previously, if a level 30 and a level 50 were grouped on a level 30 planet, the level 50 wouldn't get any xp from the mobs as all the mobs were "gray." It was a strong reason to NOT spend any time grouped with people lower level than you on those planets.

 

Currently the mobs do behave differently. It's not 100% limited to the level number they, or your toon, are, but I think a mix of reasons. The way your stats are moved down. The way they changed the TIMING of your companion's healing, and (at max level going from 75, and then the next day it being 80) the way that 306 gear went from "the best" to, essentially, 270 green gear as the mobs were rebalanced to 80 and your toon was now vastly weaker, even on the early planets where you were level synced down to 19 and, in theory, the jump from max of 75 to max of 80 SHOULDN'T have mattered....

 

but it did.

 

 

I actually miss needing to properly gear up companions. Mainly only because while I did it, at the time, I didn't truly understand how to do it.

 

While I think it'd be fun to do again, I'm probably in the minority with that.

[OlBuzzard]

Level sync, when it was first implemented, was a great thing for me, and for people that didn't like max'd out players ganking us on the pvp servers (who refused to transfer to PVE servers because RL friends liked the PVP servers).

 

Now, for me at least, that issue no longer matters as the PVP / PVE servers are no more and you can bounce back and forth as you desire.

 

One benefit of level sync that still remains is earning XP, which I didn't see specifically mentioned in this thread. Previously, if a level 30 and a level 50 were grouped on a level 30 planet, the level 50 wouldn't get any xp from the mobs as all the mobs were "gray." It was a strong reason to NOT spend any time grouped with people lower level than you on those planets.

 

Currently the mobs do behave differently. It's not 100% limited to the level number they, or your toon, are, but I think a mix of reasons. The way your stats are moved down. The way they changed the TIMING of your companion's healing, and (at max level going from 75, and then the next day it being 80) the way that 306 gear went from "the best" to, essentially, 270 green gear as the mobs were rebalanced to 80 and your toon was now vastly weaker, even on the early planets where you were level synced down to 19 and, in theory, the jump from max of 75 to max of 80 SHOULDN'T have mattered....

 

but it did.

 

 

I actually miss needing to properly gear up companions. Mainly only because while I did it, at the time, I didn't truly understand how to do it.

 

While I think it'd be fun to do again, I'm probably in the minority with that.

 

I think you're pretty much right on with this post... save one item (to which you already suggested might not be so popular). I agree that I personally don't like the idea of having to outfit our companions. This is primarily because just getting one character with the proper gear is such a long-drawn-out process, I can't imagine trying to outfit my companion once that was done!! :eek:

 

[Note: since Tuesday of this week, I received 5 of the same chest pieces as a reward for completing numerous "dailies" on different planets ... etc.. AND I haven't had the time to even log in today!! In short if it were not for Daily Resource Matrix upgrades, I'd pretty much been totally messed up for a weeks' worth of grinding!! ] :eek:

 

Just the same.. I could easily see perhaps the "graduation" of effectiveness of a companion might be in order. IMO between companion nerfs and some other stats (see the posts of DWHO) that has pretty much messed with some other stuff (like Level Sync).

[DWho]

Here is some data from Tython:

 

Gear: Tythonian Battler Offhand Blade (with +41 crit crystal), Satele Shan Sparing Lightsaber (with +41 crit crystal - no other mods), Apprentice Pummelers Headgear MK-1, Apprentice Pummelers Armguards MK-2, Apprentice Pummelers Chestguard MK-1, Apprentice Pummelers Guantlets MK-1, Tythonian Battler Boots, Apprentice Pummelers Belt MK-1, Apprentice Pummelers Greaves MK-1: overall iRating = 12

 

Tython Level 10 (planet sync is 10)

 

Power: 16

Mastery: 261

Endurance: 156

Critical: 2 (+82 from crystals not working)

Accuracy: 6

 

Tython Level 11 (1 lvl above planet sync)

 

Power: 13

Mastery: 241

Endurance: 143

Critical: 2

Accuracy: 6

 

Power, Mastery, Endurance all went down when leveling up to level 11. Crit does not appear to be working correctly, at least from crystals. This is a very weak gear set and it is showing a drop on level up.

 

Data from Coruscant

 

Gear: Coruscanti Battler Lightsaber (+41 crit crystal), Coruscanti Battler Offhand Saber (+41 crit crystal), Tythonian Battler Headgear, Apprentice Pummelers Armguards Mk 2, Coruscanti Battler Jacket, Coruscanti Battler Gloves, Tythonian Battler Boots, Tythonian Battler Belt, Coruscanti Battler Leggings, Coruscanti Battler Package: overall iRating = 24

 

Coruscant Level 17 (planet sync is 17)

 

Power: 48

Mastery: 339

Endurance: 245

Critical: 9 (+82 from crystals not working)

Accuracy: 17

 

Coruscant Level 18 (1 lvl above planet sync)

 

Power: 31

Mastery: 317

Endurance: 213

Critical: 9

Accuracy: 17

 

Again, Power, Mastery, and Endurance all went down on exceeding the planet level sync by 1 level. This is not even a full gear set you would have following completion of Coruscant. Crit crystals again not working.

[DeannaVoyager]

Thanks for giving us the numbers DWho. The devs obviously didn't have any idea what they did by tampering with the stats, but I hope they will use your research to fix it.

 

IMO the best solution would be to return the scaling as it was on 6.0. What we're seeing now is just crazy. If I was just starting on this game, and I'd get weaker every time I level up, I wouldn't playing for long.

[Achnaattwo]

. If I was just starting on this game, and I'd get weaker every time I level up, I wouldn't playing for long.

 

That thought crossed my mind.

Course they would be asking how to get stronger, be it in game, the WWW, or here. Just to discover , You can't

 

I am guessing they are trying to make it a Group only game, by making you weaker so you have to group up to complete any thing.

I'm not saying grouping is a bad thing, just saying your limited time is to find a Static group of players, that are willing to stay at the same pace, just makes the Game less attractive. I mean your not force to Group, but you get the feeling of forced grouping to help with the getting weaker pace, of out leveling and being placed in a Level Sync the entire game.

 

The 7.0 level sync is working as intended, but more so , not the way it was intended

[OlBuzzard]

Thanks for giving us the numbers DWho. The devs obviously didn't have any idea what they did by tampering with the stats, but I hope they will use your research to fix it.

 

IMO the best solution would be to return the scaling as it was on 6.0. What we're seeing now is just crazy. If I was just starting on this game, and I'd get weaker every time I level up, I wouldn't playing for long.

 

Right on !!! (100%).

 

A personal thanks from me DWho !!! Very much appreciated!

[xordevoreaux]

My lowbie on Tython can't feel an 8% drop in a stat. A better metric would be kills per minute.

 

How many kills of the exact same mobs can I kill in a minute on Tython versus after I level and I'm down-shifted?

 

If I kill 20 in 1 minute before I'm down-shifted, and kill 20 in 1 minute after I am, and they're the exact same mobs, the percentage reduction doesn't materially count against my performance.

Edited August 31, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[DWho]

My lowbie on Tython can't feel an 8% drop in a stat. A better metric would be kills per minute.

 

How many kills of the exact same mobs can I kill in a minute on Tython versus after I level and I'm down-shifted?

 

If I kill 20 in 1 minute before I'm down-shifted, and kill 20 in 1 minute after I am, and they're the exact same mobs, the percentage reduction doesn't materially count against my performance.

 

A better indicator would be time to kill (rather than kills per minute) or damage per minute. When you are killing 20 of anything in a minute (that's one kill per 2 GCD), your stats have almost nothing to do with it (your base weapon damage is the dominant effect at low levels). Time to kill is a complicated thing to determine since it takes multiple attempts to get a good set of statistics. Power and Mastery are a decent stand in since they determine your maximum damage output. Not everyone is going to notice a difference, but the fact is, regardless of whether it impacts a specific player, it shouldn't be happening at all and indicates a flaw in the level sync system.

[Achnaattwo]

It's slightly noticeable, the moment you're in level sync, but I don't think a new player would notice it. not much difference at 3 lvl's over, but at 4 over you start to feel it, the fights are longer. They are not over whelming, just long *** battles that shouldn't be. Forgot to mention, this is from experiencing at starter planets, and played that class before, as in before 7.0, in other words not a new player, at starting for the very first time.

 

As long as I'm not level sync, it's all good time wise, in battles.

I started a new character last night, so far been keeping out of level sync, not doing any side missions, no heroics's (that bytes, I like having better gear). I was off Ord Mantell at max planet level. I gained another level while in fleet, because I grabbed the crew skill mission.

Coruscant, again skipping side missions and no heroics, but I did get intro to War Zones and GSF, mistake, that was a quick 2+ levels, competing the dailies of those I'm now Maxed Planet level. Still have last class mission, before getting ship, and going to Taris. I'll probably leave one level over, but enter Taris at level, so no biggy . Taris I'm sure will be not max level when leaving. As long as I avoid PvP and Side missions. It's a quick short, but I could be wrong, haven't played this class since 4.0, before 5.0, so don't recall all of the missions or time frame.

Doing the Commando story, as combat style Gunslinger, been avoiding commando story for a while, so actually forgot much of the story, gets tiresome hearing me reply "just doing my job"

 

In level Sync and with the companion heals, the content is doable, just weak damage, and long long battles. This makes the Game drawn out, and boring/tiresome

Edited August 31, 2022 by Achnaattwo

[Rujopetteri]

I think the general idea of level sync is ok. However the current way it's implemented is beyond stupid (or severely bugged).

 

Under no circumstances should your effectiveness go DOWN from LEVELING UP your character or your gear. It doesn't matter if your stats are reduced 8% or 1%, IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN, PERIOD!

 

When you level up, your effectiveness should always increase, at least until some point. Also better gear should always improve your stats.

 

I usually hit max level around the time i hit the fourth or fifth planet (even earlier if i do GSF/WZ or FP's on the way) on a new character, so i'm always way overleveled for pretty much all planets, and the current system severely punishes me for it which is insanely stupid. Recently some lowbie at planet max level pretty much killed all mobs from the area during the same time it took for me to take down one small group (lvl80 infiltration shadow, the lowbie was also shadow, not sure which spec). I think it was one of the taris heroic areas, but not sure anymore as it was a few days ago.

 

Something should be done about this asap. But i'm not holding my breath. 7.x has been a spectacular s**tshow so far. Only thing the 6.x gearing system needed was a little cleanup on the database for the silly amount of useles mods and some way to reduce the randomness in the amplifier acquiring progress. The level sync, or whatever it was called at the time, was also way better than the crap we have now.

[Achnaattwo]

I think the general idea of level sync is ok. However the current way it's implemented is beyond stupid (or severely bugged).

probably incomplete, as in 'not completely tested'.

 

Do we have a level 75-80 Planet ?

I don't think we do, so why was the level increased to 80, if 90%+, you're going to be scaled down in stats. In a worse way then being at level on what ever planet your on

The level Scaling worked, not great, but this level sync, is just not working.

 

most are level 65-70 by Ilum, defiantly if they do a lot of content, be it, side missions, planet story missions, OP's, FP, GSF, and war zones. And Ilum is level 50-52, at least I'm that level '50+' by Belsavis (41-44).

 

I don't believe this is true, and if it is, they ignore a lot of feed back, or was given wrong feed back to speed the patch

We made this change last fall and it went through several PTS iterations. We were able to address lots of balance feedback back then and continue to do so to this day across the game in order to get the system feeling better with each iteration.

they're only looking, what seems too be as a level 80 perspective , not a new and growing character .

and they are increasing levels, without increasing planet levels, or limited content.

 

and I don't see this to be true either

We have also determined the root cause of a bug that was causing item ratings in Level Synced content to be inaccurately computed. This didn’t result in major stat changes, but was the cause of some stats appearing to be worse after the 7.0.1 update in content that was Level Synced, and also that players with better than 326 gear in Warzones and Arenas had a slight stat advantage. We have a fix to this bug coming in the 7.0.2 update.

there are still major stat changes

and I don't believe in this either, maybe they are and just not saying anything

we continue to keep an eye on your reports and experiences both in the live game and the PTS server.

[DWho]

Data from Coruscant

 

Gear: Coruscanti Battler Lightsaber (+41 crit crystal), Coruscanti Battler Offhand Saber (+41 crit crystal), Tythonian Battler Headgear, Apprentice Pummelers Armguards Mk 2, Coruscanti Battler Jacket, Coruscanti Battler Gloves, Tythonian Battler Boots, Tythonian Battler Belt, Coruscanti Battler Leggings, Coruscanti Battler Package: overall iRating = 24

 

Coruscant Level 17 (planet sync is 17)

 

Power: 48

Mastery: 339

Endurance: 245

Critical: 9 (+82 from crystals not working)

Accuracy: 17

 

Coruscant Level 18 (1 lvl above planet sync)

 

Power: 31

Mastery: 317

Endurance: 213

Critical: 9

Accuracy: 17

 

Again, Power, Mastery, and Endurance all went down on exceeding the planet level sync by 1 level. This is not even a full gear set you would have following completion of Coruscant. Crit crystals again not working.

 

Another planet, Taris this time

 

Gear: Coruscanti Battler Lightsaber (+41 crit crystal), Coruscanti Battler Offhand Saber (+41 crit crystal), Tythonian Battler Headgear, Coruscanti Battler Bracers, Coruscanti Battler Jacket, Coruscanti Battler Gloves, Tythonian Battler Boots, Tythonian Battler Belt, Coruscanti Battler Leggings, Coruscanti Battler Package x 2: overall iRating = 30

 

Taris Level 21 (planet sync is 21)

 

Power: 61

Mastery: 379

Endurance: 287

Critical: 12 (+82 from crystals not working)

Accuracy: 22

Bonus Damage: 94

Primary Weapon: 138-161 (average = 146)

Secondary Weapon: 22-34 (average = 28)

 

Taris Level 22 (1 lvl above planet sync)

 

Power: 47

Mastery: 360

Endurance: 258

Critical: 12

Accuracy: 22

Bonus Damage: 87

Primary Weapon: 124-142 (average = 133)

Secondary Weapon: 19-28 (average = 24)

 

Same as Tython and Coruscant. Power, Mastery, and Endurance drop on exceeding the planetary sync level. Crit still not working from crystals.

[OlBuzzard]

Another planet, Taris this time

 

Gear: Coruscanti Battler Lightsaber (+41 crit crystal), Coruscanti Battler Offhand Saber (+41 crit crystal), Tythonian Battler Headgear, Coruscanti Battler Bracers, Coruscanti Battler Jacket, Coruscanti Battler Gloves, Tythonian Battler Boots, Tythonian Battler Belt, Coruscanti Battler Leggings, Coruscanti Battler Package x 2: overall iRating = 30

 

Taris Level 21 (planet sync is 21)

 

Power: 61

Mastery: 379

Endurance: 287

Critical: 12 (+82 from crystals not working)

Accuracy: 22

Bonus Damage: 94

Primary Weapon: 138-161 (average = 146)

Secondary Weapon: 22-34 (average = 28)

 

Taris Level 22 (1 lvl above planet sync)

 

Power: 47

Mastery: 360

Endurance: 258

Critical: 12

Accuracy: 22

Bonus Damage: 87

Primary Weapon: 124-142 (average = 133)

Secondary Weapon: 19-28 (average = 24)

 

Same as Tython and Coruscant. Power, Mastery, and Endurance drop on exceeding the planetary sync level. Crit still not working from crystals.

 

Again .. I personally appreciate the time you have put into this!

 

I do have one question: What if we changed the Crystals to something other than "crits" ? Say maybe to Accuracy, Power, Mastery or Alacrity ?? Or have those stats also been nerfed into oblivion?

 

Just asking.

Edited September 3, 2022 by OlBuzzard

[DWho]

Again .. I personally appreciate the time you have put into this!

 

I do have one question: What if we changed the Crystals to something other than "crits" ? Say maybe to Accuracy, Power, Mastery or Alacrity ?? Or have those stats also been nerfed into oblivion?

 

Just asking.

 

None of the crystals appear to be working (Eviscerating - Critical, War Hero - Mastery, Hawkeye - Power, or Indestructible - Endurance) on Taris, coruscant, or Tython. I even unequipped and re-equipped the weapon to make sure it wasn't a glitch with the display. Equipping other gear with higher stats increased all of those stats (Power, Mastery, Endurace, Critical) even if it was only a few points and all those pieces were less than +41 to the stat.

[OlBuzzard]

None of the crystals appear to be working (Eviscerating - Critical, War Hero - Mastery, Hawkeye - Power, or Indestructible - Endurance) on Taris, coruscant, or Tython. I even unequipped and re-equipped the weapon to make sure it wasn't a glitch with the display. Equipping other gear with higher stats increased all of those stats (Power, Mastery, Endurace, Critical) even if it was only a few points and all those pieces were less than +41 to the stat.

 

Sooo my next question would be ... At what point do the crystals actually work? (If at all) ?

[DWho]

Sooo my next question would be ... At what point do the crystals actually work? (If at all) ?

 

Well, the crit crystals haven't worked on Alderaan, Makeb, or Corellia for me either, so it's probably safe to assume the others don't work there as well. Nar Shaada is next up with the lower level planets for sync testing. I'm running with no rested xp, no legacy perks, and the white acute module so it's taking longer to level but gear sets are becoming more in line with the leveling gear of the planet (no need to rush through story only then go back to pad out those levels with exploration missions - stil have a couple on Coruscant that haven't been done).

[EllieAnne]

At this point, they should just drop level-sync and if you want to massacre flesh-raiders as a level 80, have fun.

 

Let's face reality, level-sync is only there so that fanboyz can absolve EA/BW from making new content and discover the joys of rerunning Hoth for the 839th time. "Oh no! With level-sync I can take my level 80 and run with friends & guildies on low-level planets." How's that working out now?

[xordevoreaux]

With level-sync I can take my level 80 and run with friends & guildies on low-level planets." How's that working out now?

 

...and it lets people of different levels group together.

Edited September 6, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[Achnaattwo]

...and it lets people of different levels group together.

I'm sure, from the beginning, different levels could group, didn't need level sync to do that.

Now the strong players are those in the planets Level, a over the planet level players, are the ones asking for help, because their mission sends them back to a lower level planet , that they are now over level.

It's not that it can't be done, now it just takes longer to do

[xordevoreaux]

I'm sure, from the beginning, different levels could group, didn't need level sync to do that.

Nope.

 

From the start, a max level character got zero experience on a starter planet, so grouping with a lowbie friend on that planet garnered nothing for that high-level player. Planet sync provides drops, experience, and credits for higher-level characters.

Edited September 7, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[casirabit]

I'm sure, from the beginning, different levels could group, didn't need level sync to do that.

Now the strong players are those in the planets Level, a over the planet level players, are the ones asking for help, because their mission sends them back to a lower level planet , that they are now over level.

It's not that it can't be done, now it just takes longer to do

 

No, we could not do that. When a high-level group with a lower-level guild member/friend, that person winded up getting 0 XP points for the kills and it also games less XP. Now, we can group with guild members without them being penalized.