Heroics and level sync

[casirabit]

You guys do realize you play an mmorpg right? What makes these games great is that everybody starts from 0 and you have to earn everything that you have, if you don't want to earn it and just get it donated you probably shouldn't be playing a mmorpg.

 

Except you don't have to start at O. I created a new character and used the Master Datacron (had a few sitting around) and I started at 70 and by the time I was on Nar Shadda I was 80 so not everyone has to start at 0.

 

In addition, I have some gear in my bank tabs that I was able to use for my new character.

Edited May 22, 2022 by casirabit

[juliushorst]

You guys do realize you play an mmorpg right? What makes these games great is that everybody starts from 0 and you have to earn everything that you have, if you don't want to earn it and just get it donated you probably shouldn't be playing a mmorpg.

 

What makes this game great for me is the story.

You "earn" things at work. If I wanted more work I would've picked one in which I earn something more substantial than a string of zeroes and ones.

Telling people to quit doesn't solve any problems, population is on a downward spiral already: people who liked the game easier and more soko-friendly are leaving and raiders Keith hoped to attract aren't coming to replace them.

[xordevoreaux]

shouldn't

Who are you to say what people should or should not do, ever? We all play for our own reasons in our own way.

You have yours, the rest of us have ours.

Edited May 22, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[ZUHFB]

What makes this game great for me is the story.

You "earn" things at work. If I wanted more work I would've picked one in which I earn something more substantial than a string of zeroes and ones.

Telling people to quit doesn't solve any problems, population is on a downward spiral already: people who liked the game easier and more soko-friendly are leaving and raiders Keith hoped to attract aren't coming to replace them.

 

You like the story? Ok sure, I do too. But I'd have quit YEARS ago because you knew how long the 7.0 story would be, you knew how little new story they bring. You cannot possibly have played for years and just repeat OG stories for 6 years straight and then complain about the endgame you don't even play to begin with...

[ZUHFB]

Who are you to say what people should or should not do, ever? We all play for our own reasons in our own way.

You have yours, the rest of us have ours.

 

Nobody of importance, but if they would remove scaling completely I'd quit without a 2nd thought. Not only is all the PvE prestige of years gone, no - we are also "forced" to do dxun because it would be the only onlevel content in the game.

 

And if you didn't expect to work for things in a MMO... you knew that before you started playing. If you don't care for prestige and only do story why are you still here, so in my mind you guys have to care for anything more than story OR you just didn't play it all in which case you can't complain about the endgame because you simply haven't reached it.

[juliushorst]

You like the story? Ok sure, I do too. But I'd have quit YEARS ago because you knew how long the 7.0 story would be, you knew how little new story they bring. You cannot possibly have played for years and just repeat OG stories for 6 years straight and then complain about the endgame you don't even play to begin with...

 

Story is what keeps me here. When there are longer breaks between story bits I used to enjoy doing conquest and accumulating credits but it was made worse too - not only are heroics more sloggish now I need to get twice as many points as I used to and I get less rewards (gone are the decorations or the matrices, now I only get currency for the first few characters and tech fragments).

[xordevoreaux]

And if you didn't expect to work for things in a MMO... you knew that before you started playing. If you don't care for prestige and only do story why are you still here, so in my mind you guys have to care for anything more than story OR you just didn't play it all in which case you can't complain about the endgame because you simply haven't reached it.

 

Allow me to broaden your thinking a bit, if you will.

 

We had this guy in my guild. I always wondered why I had to keep inviting his same toon over and over again. DId he not like the class he picked? The face? What was it? Was he forever experimenting?

 

Turns out, he only played the game for story, specifically, the original first 3 chapters.

So he would create a toon, get that toon all the way through chapter 3, delete the toon, and start completely over.

 

Because that is what he wanted to do.

And that was his choice.

 

So I reiterate: You play your way, we'll play ours, and don't worry what anyone else is doing, and certainly not why anyone's here.

Edited May 23, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[ZUHFB]

Allow me to broaden your thinking a bit, if you will.

 

We had this guy in my guild. I always wondered why I had to keep inviting his same toon over and over again. DId he not like the class he picked? The face? What was it? Was he forever experimenting?

 

Turns out, he only played the game for story, specifically, the original first 3 chapters.

So he would create a toon, get that toon all the way through chapter 3, delete the toon, and start completely over.

 

Because that is what he wanted to do.

And that was his choice.

 

So I reiterate: You play your way, we'll play ours, and don't worry what anyone else is doing, and certainly not why anyone's here.

 

Yea but that guy wasn't complaining about heroics being too hard

[JediQuaker]

Yea but that guy wasn't complaining about heroics being too hard

You don't know that. 😂

[TriceraNL]

You don't know that. 😂

 

Well said.

I mean... He may not say it but he might think it.

As you already know, i find some of those heroics quitte "challenging" (to put it mildly)

But i also know that i'm definitly not the only one who feels like that.

[NuSeC]

Y

 

And yes, that has to be done each time the level cap is increased, but this time around, it just "feels" worse.

 

Agree with everything you said. Except, in GW2, you don't have to ever gear grind because the level cap is and always will be 80. Once you get the good gear, it is all about how fancy you want to look. and they release actual content regularly.

 

In SWTOR, this update brought almost no content except a ridicules gear grind. Basically, grinding your gear is the content. Keep busy while we "celebrate" the 10 year anniversary by way of grinding gear to run the exact same content we were running just fine with 306. Yay.

[Rammboo]

And if you didn't expect to work for things in a MMO... you knew that before you started playing. If you don't care for prestige and only do story why are you still here, so in my mind you guys have to care for anything more than story OR you just didn't play it all in which case you can't complain about the endgame because you simply haven't reached it.

 

I was promised a story driven MMO.

I had that until recently. (Ish).

Why should I stop playing because of the content I play?

So I should stop because I don't play what you do?

I don't play outside story so I'm not good enough to play how I want to?

I don't want to do PvP or OPs so I should just quit?

Why should you be the one to decide if I play or not?

[ZUHFB]

I was promised a story driven MMO.

I had that until recently. (Ish).

 

Yes, it is a story driven MMO, everybody start because of the story.

 

Why should I stop playing because of the content I play?

 

Well, no - but if there is no new content of the content you enjoy, you either try out different content or yes, you should quit. There is no point in playing if you only do it for the story - as long as you did all of it and there is nothing new.

 

So I should stop because I don't play what you do?

 

Not, what I said, not what I meant.

 

I don't play outside story so I'm not good enough to play how I want to?

 

Uhm, I don't understand? What does "play how I want to" mean? Yes, in story content you can play what you meant because it is SO easy you can do anything and get away with it. In most story content you couldn't even die if you wanted to. If anything the things I like to do limit me in the way I want to play, Merc is almost unplayable for mastermode for example.

 

I don't want to do PvP or OPs so I should just quit?

 

Yes. If there is no new content you like and you refuse to try the other things then what's the point? Just come back when there is the next 2 hours story.

 

Why should you be the one to decide if I play or not?

 

You decide that, I just point out that you don't have a reason to play. You can always say that you play for fun, but I don't see how repeating the same story for the 16th time is fun. If you like it go ahead, I won't hold you back. As long as you don't want to play anything else but story and there is no new story you don't really have a reason to play.

 

Besides complaining of course, the reason why 90% of players are actually here

[juliushorst]

Yes. If there is no new content you like and you refuse to try the other things then what's the point? Just come back when there is the next 2 hours story.

 

If people followed your advice soon there would be nothing to return to.

 

Besides complaining of course, the reason why 90% of players are actually here

 

Complaining serves one purpose: to let the devs know we're unhappy with changes they made. Continous complaining serves a purpise too: it's to let them know that it is not a problem with adjusting to those changes and we won't suddenly start liking them.

[ZUHFB]

If people followed your advice soon there would be nothing to return to.

 

Yeah, but that's just simply not my fault and it doesn't make it less true.

 

Complaining serves one purpose: to let the devs know we're unhappy with changes they made. Continous complaining serves a purpise too: it's to let them know that it is not a problem with adjusting to those changes and we won't suddenly start liking them.

 

I'm not unhappy about them, I like all the changes, or simply don't mind some.

Edited May 25, 2022 by ZUHFB

[juliushorst]

Yeah, but that's just simply not my fault and it doesn't make it less true.

 

I'm not saying it's your fault. It's the devs' fault and I want them to change it in a way that will be satisfying for me. That's why I voice my displeasure.

 

I'm not unhappy about them, I like all the changes, or simply don't mind some.

 

Yes, I can see. But I'm not your spokesman. I speak for myself and I dislike those changes greatly.

[Rammboo]

Not, what I said, not what I meant.

 

Pretty sure you said if I just do story I should give up.

To be fair that's not all I do.

I do solo FPs and daily areas so I still have a reason to play.

Just don't want to do the teaming up stuff.

Also done with the forum.

Waste of time.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Rammboo

[BriceCCC]

It's funny how I read thru these comments that I starting to understand whats going on with heroics. I recently came back to play and I saw that my crystals are not giving me stat boosts while lvl synced.

 

I recently (actually yesterday) I did the Voss Heroic weeklys cause i wanted the scrap metals you get. **** I WILL NEVER solo Voss Heroic's again. I made a comment in chat that I thought the enemies now have way to much HP. Heroic's have become so tedious I got bored doing my rotation over and over and over and over again cause the enemy just would not die.

 

And I also remeber alot of enemies the silver enemies especially the one with rifles are doing so much damage that a silver mob with a rifle can take off rougly 30% of my guardians health cause they are doing so much damage its unreal.

[Bigfallenstar]

Ok, let's clear the air here. Besides the two who wanted an instant win button the second they go into combat, what does everybody want from the game?

[Darev]

Ok, let's clear the air here. Besides the two who wanted an instant win button the second they go into combat, what does everybody want from the game?

 

You haven't "NEEDED" two players to do H2 heroics in a very long time. First couple years of the game only. Certainly not in the last 5-6 years.

 

I am not sure anyone's looking for an "instant win" button. That's what I view the single Heroic on Tython when you can go in and kill the mobs mostly with a single hit (honestly, I feel that if you're at the point where level sync kicks in, that's appropriate).

I don't feel that same level of "power" is appropriate at pretty much any other normal H2.

There are a lot of easy/fast ones, and there are some that do in fact take longer to complete (for a number of reasons) since 7.0 and players weren't expecting that change, and hardly anyone really likes change in a video game.

 

As for what I want for Heroics...I want to be able to solo ALL of the NS heroics in 30-45 minutes and not die while doing it. I use that as a baseline because WAY back in the day during the first iteration of conquest, that's what I did, over and over again during NS invasion weeks. I'm not sure what gear level you'd need, currently, to make that goal...I honestly haven't tried.

 

If we can get back to that, w/o needed top level gear or a level 50 companion...I think we'd be where most players want the difficulty to be.

[ZUHFB]

As for what I want for Heroics...I want to be able to solo ALL of the NS heroics in 30-45 minutes and not die while doing it. I use that as a baseline because WAY back in the day during the first iteration of conquest, that's what I did, over and over again during NS invasion weeks. I'm not sure what gear level you'd need, currently, to make that goal...I honestly haven't tried.

 

If we can get back to that, w/o needed top level gear or a level 50 companion...I think we'd be where most players want the difficulty to be.

 

Have you sat down, for only one minute and thought of this as already being the case? Because it is!

 

You want to be able to solo NS heroics without dying? The how about you improve your chances of doing that by improving yourself. You are always at the mercy of th devs when you are bad, I know the feeling because I was there. The devs cannot fix it, you could get screwed over every patch - the only way not to die is by being proving your gameplay and if you'd have spend the time learning your class instead of typing here I'm sure you'd see results.

[juliushorst]

Ok, let's clear the air here. Besides the two who wanted an instant win button the second they go into combat, what does everybody want from the game?

 

6.0 scaling will do fine.

[Darev]

Have you sat down, for only one minute and thought of this as already being the case? Because it is!

 

You want to be able to solo NS heroics without dying? The how about you improve your chances of doing that by improving yourself. You are always at the mercy of th devs when you are bad, I know the feeling because I was there. The devs cannot fix it, you could get screwed over every patch - the only way not to die is by being proving your gameplay and if you'd have spend the time learning your class instead of typing here I'm sure you'd see results.

 

Forget trying to match MY experience...you say you were there and did that. Can you tell me that it's the same today, for you, that it was back then, for you?

[BRKMSN]

As I said before, the H2+ stands for two players + companions - if this wouldn't be the case what would the + stand for? You can kick normal NPC around the planet but what makes you think you can kick silver and gold enemies?

And... let's face the truth - farming gear via heroics is not worth it, farming credits via heroics is not worth it. The only reason anybody should be doing them apart from you liking them is either cosmetic armor or aquatics.

 

H2+ means you can have larger groups. H2+, according to the devs, means the content should only require a player and a companion.

 

Hello, everyone.

 

My name is Michael Backus, and I’m the Lead Designer for Star Wars: The Old Republic. I wanted to take a minute to apologize for the recent Companion changes and address combat balance. I wanted to do so personally because as fans of Star Wars: The Old Republic and our customers, we cherish your feedback and value all of you, and I feel you deserve to hear this information directly.

 

I would like to go over why the changes were made, what we’ve learned, and what’s going to happen going forward. There’s a short summary at the bottom if you want to skip the Why’s and get to the What’s.

 

Why the changes were made

Combat balance is a tricky thing. So many factors contribute to the question of, is this too easy or too hard--ability rotations, number of enemies and their abilities, player play style, player skill level, player class choice, Companion role, and even how well your computer can run the game. All of these things and more impact how well you play and how successful you are in combat. Jennifer might say, “This game’s a snap,” while Joe might say, “This is the hardest thing I’ve played in my entire life,” and there’s literally no way to tell who is “right”. The best we can do is create goals and do our best to make sure as many players as possible hit those goals. We posted our goals with different content types recently, here.

 

The one thing that was obvious was that Companions were overpowered in 4.0. We came to this conclusion, not only from player feedback and our own playtests, but from watching how players were playing—it is not ideal to send your Companion into combat in a [Heroic 2] and then go make tea, only to come back and collect your loot. We want combat to be engaging, to be fun. We want combat to be something, since you do it for so many hours, that can challenge you. If it’s too easy, we risk players not being engaged and getting bored. If it’s too hard, we risk players leaving and not even trying certain content anymore.

 

So, in 4.0.2 we toned down Companion power significantly to be in line with our stated goals. And that’s where the problem occurred.

 

What we didn’t realize was how with Knights of the Fallen Empire gameplay had evolved. As a community, you were playing differently than we had expected. I’ll give you an example.

 

Emergent Gameplay

[Heroic 2]s. Before Knights of the Fallen Empire, Heroics were not very utilized content. Most players ignored them after doing them once. So when we highlighted areas of improvement for our leveling experience, we knew we wanted to make Heroics sexier. We wanted players to have good reason to go do them, but also give players a reason to join up with their friends. What we failed to realize was how much most of you would enjoy them, but also how frequently you would engage in them. [Heroic 2]s were initially meant to be challenging content for what we would say is an “average” player. If you had good gear and really knew how to play well, you could solo them but you’d still have to pay attention to what you were doing. If you had expected gear for your level and didn’t think of yourself as that skilled, you’d probably find a friend to join you so you could both reap the rewards together.

 

With Companions being the power level they were, “everyone” began enjoying them. And that was the point that we hadn’t realized. By reducing Companion power, we took that away from a lot of you. You could still engage in [Heroic 2]s and beat them, but they had become arduous, even grindy to many players.

 

Our misstep was in not realizing that our goals we had set no longer fit with the game all of you were enjoying. The emergent gameplay that was created didn’t fit what we had embraced as our mandate within the Design Team.

 

Going Forward

So, what does that mean going forward? We will be increasing the power level of Companions. And while they won’t be as powerful as they were when Fallen Empire launched, the increase will be significant. I have gotten together with the Design Leads and we have re-discussed our goals for combat and content difficulty. We want players to enjoy [Heroic 2]s and level up their Alliance. You can find the exact changes coming in tomorrow’s patch, below. And I assure you, we will continue to carefully watch how content is being enjoyed and adapt as necessary.

• Companion healing has been increased by roughly 48%. (Influence level and character level will determine exact amount.)
  
• Companion damage has been increased by roughly 15%. (Influence level and character level will determine exact amount.)
  
• Companion base stats have been increased by about 15%. (Influence level and character level will determine exact amount.)

(click the spoiler tag for specifics)

 

 

• Companion channel heal power increased by 61%
  
• Companion single target heal power increased by 42%
  
• Companion single target heal over time power increased by 43%
  
• Companion base stats increased by 15%
  
• edit, removed note about damage increase, it is redundant with stat increase above

 

Star Fortresses

Which leads me to Star Fortresses. We are going to treat Star Fortresses as a different topic from Companion balance. The initial difficulty level for Star Fortresses are clearly story content, meaning, we expect all of you to take part and enjoy them while earning new Contacts. This hasn’t changed. The difficult mode for Star Fortresses, though, we feel is a challenge that players should aspire to achieve, and not something players should easily do without gearing up their character and increasing their Companion’s Influence level. We obviously set an expectation Heroic Star Fortresses were going to be similar to [Heroic 2] content, but that was not our intention. As a result, we are going to change the “Heroic” nomenclature for Star Fortresses to something different. We’ll let you know what we decide the new name will be soon. In addition, this will allow us to balance Star Fortresses independently of Companion power, but still make it challenging without making it impossible for many players.

 

So, in conclusion, or the tl;dr for the internet savvy:

• We will be increasing Companion power. It will not be as powerful as before, but the changes will be significant.
  
• Heroic Star Fortresses will get a new moniker to denote that it’s a different type of challenge. And we will balance Star Fortresses independently of both Companion power and [Heroic 2]s to ensure they are tuned appropriately.

 

Thank you for reading and we look forward to more of your feedback as these changes go live.

 

May the Force be with you,

Michael Backus

Lead Designer

 

Hey folks,

 

Following the Companion changes we made Tuesday in 4.0.2, we want to gather your feedback on your gameplay experiences. We hope by this point you have had some time to jump in and get your hands on the changes yourselves. First, before we get into the feedback we are looking for, let’s talk a bit about our specific design goals related to Companions:

 

• Leveling Content – Challenge Level: Low. To complete this content, a player should have a basic understanding of game mechanics and have level-appropriate gear. Their companion’s role shouldn’t matter.
  
• KotFE Chapters – Challenge Level: Low. Like leveling content, a player should have a basic understanding of game mechanics and have level-appropriate gear. Their companion’s role shouldn’t matter.
  
• [Heroic 2] Missions – Challenge Level: Medium. To complete this content, a player should have a good understanding of their class and game mechanics, as well as level appropriate gear. Their companion’s role should begin to matter at this point, supplementing the player’s own Discipline. We expect some players to find these challenging initially—maybe even needing a friend’s help--but once the player earns better gear, a few levels of Influence with their companion, and has a greater understanding of the game, they should be able to solo the hardest of these missions.
  
• Star Fortress – Challenge Level: Medium. These are similar to [Heroic 2] Missions. Star Fortresses should be similar to [Heroic 2] Missions. To complete this content, we expect you to have level-appropriate gear, a good understanding of your class, a companion with a few levels of Influence, as well as being in a role that supplements the player’s. We expect most players to be able to solo these with a little practice and effort on their part to gain some increased power.
  
• Heroic Star Fortress – Challenge Level: High. At this point we expect players to really understand their class, their companion, and their gear. Players should have sought out gear upgrades, as well as increased their companions’ Influence level. These are meant to be challenging and difficult to do solo.
  
• “The One and Only” Achievement should still be possible. As an Achievement, this is definitely intended to be extremely hard and rewarding to players. This means the Achievement can be exceptionally challenging, and similar to HM Star Fortress, you will need to be a skilled player, with moderate to high Influence level with your companion, and very good gear on your character.
  

Based on these statements above, do you think that these are true after Tuesday’s changes? What content is more or less difficult than you expected? Is there something that is just flat out impossible?

 

Please give us your feedback, and we simply ask you to be as constructive as possible. Include information such as:

• Your level
  
• Roughly Average Item Rating
  
• Discipline
  
• Companion
  
• Companion role
  
• Companion Influence level
  
• Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?)
  
• Your personal experience while playing this content
  

If you have a video or other related content to go with your feedback, feel free to link that as well as it will allow us the best insight into your experiences.

 

The team will be reviewing all feedback, along with supporting data, to see what / if any future adjustments need to be made. Thank you all in advance for your feedback!

 

-eric

[ZUHFB]

H2+ means you can have larger groups. H2+, according to the devs, means the content should only require a player and a companion.

 

"[Heroic 2] Missions – Challenge Level: Medium. To complete this content, a player should have a good understanding of their class and game mechanics, as well as level appropriate gear. Their companion’s role should begin to matter at this point, supplementing the player’s own Discipline. We expect some players to find these challenging initially—maybe even needing a friend’s help--but once the player earns better gear, a few levels of Influence with their companion, and has a greater understanding of the game, they should be able to solo the hardest of these missions."

 

Those posts are so old they are hardly relevant, also they do prove my point. Why can I solo all of them without even trying and yet somehow they are still too hard? Even with the definition in mind? IDK, seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

What they are saying is: If your GS is 320+ (appropriate) and you can't solo a heroic you have two options: #1Ask someone to help, #2 get gud. Sure I paraphrased but that is what they mean, don't even try to deny it.