Should SWTOR pause story updates, short term, and develop end game?

[Diamaht]

Wondering what people think here. When you dig into a lot of the complaints that folks have here and in game it seems to boil down to lack of things to do end game. Do you think that the SWTOR team should step back from cinematic and story for a short time and put some time into more robust endgame areas?

 

If not that, then what do you want to see changed about lvl 80 activities?

[ZUHFB]

You will never develop faster than content is consumed, but in 7.0 no content was added and they need to fix that first. Whenever they bring out, honestly, good story like manaan everybody just seems to hate it. They need to focus more about the endgame and maybe weave the story more into a chapter like thing again as they did with kotfe and kotet where the scenery looks amazing and you can see the work that was been put in really well

[Darthmoriquendi]

You will never develop faster than content is consumed, but in 7.0 no content was added and they need to fix that first. Whenever they bring out, honestly, good story like manaan everybody just seems to hate it. They need to focus more about the endgame and maybe weave the story more into a chapter like thing again as they did with kotfe and kotet where the scenery looks amazing and you can see the work that was been put in really well

 

I will agree that kotfe/kotet was implemented well. We had something new each month with a unique story. I am one who really enjoyed the eternal throne content very much.

 

Sadly we never got all the content because some complained about the solo mode and needing to get back to traditional reb vs pub stories. Too bad bioware listened to them. Big mistake never finishing what they had planned. Now we have what we have. Drip fed content...

[Diamaht]

What if they further developed the existing planets? Like adding new end game areas to Tat or Makeb. They might be able to put out updates far more often since they have a stockpile of preexisting assets. Giving players things to do and new areas to explore while they slowly, over time, add story content?

[Jamtas]

I will agree that kotfe/kotet was implemented well. We had something new each month with a unique story. I am one who really enjoyed the eternal throne content very much.

 

Sadly we never got all the content because some complained about the solo mode and needing to get back to traditional reb vs pub stories. Too bad bioware listened to them. Big mistake never finishing what they had planned. Now we have what we have. Drip fed content...

 

We can disagree on the quality of KOTFE/KOTET, but bioware isn't really known for listening to the players and reversing course. You can see that playing out yet again right now. KOTFE/KOTET being reversed was more likely due to players leaving and those that stayed just waiting and paying one month to binge. I find it very unlikely that KOTFE/KOTET was a success and as a response Bioware swapped producers and completely changed course on a successful business model. KOTFE/KOTET was a change to fully focus on story and ignore endgame group content for roughly 2 years. The better expansions give all of the pillars some attention.

[Eckrond]

End game is an incredibly small minority of players, will *not* bring players or money into the game, and currently has no path to greatness, i.e. BW understandably is not brave enough to gate significant content, plot, items, or anything else behind end game group content.

 

So no; story is SWTOR's strength, animated voiced cutscenes are what sets the game apart from all others.

[Master_Morak]

Wondering what people think here. When you dig into a lot of the complaints that folks have here and in game it seems to boil down to lack of things to do end game. Do you think that the SWTOR team should step back from cinematic and story for a short time and put some time into more robust endgame areas?

 

If not that, then what do you want to see changed about lvl 80 activities?

 

This game definitly needs no more operations or similar content. What this game need is more story because story was and is the the strength of SWTOR.

 

May be it needs new ideas to bring more story-based endgame content, may be the Max-Level should be fixed and an alternativ system like the champion levels as in TESO should be introduced.

 

There could be group activities not based on fixed FP- or raid groups but based on groups performing different tasks for a long-term lasting goal. For example: on a planet should become a new base for on of the sides. First there are exploration missions, crafting missions for special goals. Later there are missions for building the base. Then - o what a wonder there are also groups from the opposite side and for pvp-liking players a new PvP-zone comes where both sides struggle against ressources.

[xordevoreaux]

Should SWTOR pause story updates, short term, and develop end game?

How long of a pause do you suggest?

 

No matter how much end game content has been delivered over the years, when each expansion's end game was completed (remember when Makeb was end game?) clouds of content locusts descended, devoured everything in sight, and then flew away again, complaining of... no end game content.

 

Bioware can't win. If every Bioware employee currently working on every game that Bioware has suddenly dropped what they were doing and did nothing else but develop end game content for SWTOR, SWTOR players would still complain there's not enough end game content.

 

There is no pause long enough, so let some of the other issues in the game also garner attention.

Like bugs.

Pun intended.

Edited May 2, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[Pricia]

I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at, OP.

 

In other MMOs, "endgame" was a gear grind, locked behind specific new dungeons and new raids. You'd have to run specific content to get specific gear... I'm quite sure that if BW gave us that, everyone would be screaming that they are quitting, because it would be a massive downgrade.

 

Endgame is always a rep and/or gear grind, and it's pretty much what we have already. Except that BW makes use of old content, which a lot of games don't. And we're getting a daily area and a new op (eventually). We got a new FP.

 

The problem is that people wanting more endgame will always need a very large amount of content because otherwise they'll be bored in one month - so at this point I'd say that if people are playing SWTOR in hope of more endgame and new content all the time, at this point they've been in denial for 10 years.

 

The people who are still here after 10 years are here because they like SWTOR the way it is. And that's with limited "endgame" content. I'd hope that SWTOR wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot even more by changing their game even more at this point - 7.0 already made them lose a bunch of subscribers, they probably don't want to lose the story players next (which I would say most people who still play are here for, certainly not for endgame content).

[jedimasterjac]

What story updates? We're lucky to get two or three story updates a year. Edited May 2, 2022 by jedimasterjac

[ZUHFB]

I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at, OP.

 

In other MMOs, "endgame" was a gear grind, locked behind specific new dungeons and new raids. You'd have to run specific content to get specific gear... I'm quite sure that if BW gave us that, everyone would be screaming that they are quitting, because it would be a massive downgrade.

 

Endgame is always a rep and/or gear grind, and it's pretty much what we have already. Except that BW makes use of old content, which a lot of games don't. And we're getting a daily area and a new op (eventually). We got a new FP.

 

The problem is that people wanting more endgame will always need a very large amount of content because otherwise they'll be bored in one month - so at this point I'd say that if people are playing SWTOR in hope of more endgame and new content all the time, at this point they've been in denial for 10 years.

 

The people who are still here after 10 years are here because they like SWTOR the way it is. And that's with limited "endgame" content. I'd hope that SWTOR wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot even more by changing their game even more at this point - 7.0 already made them lose a bunch of subscribers, they probably don't want to lose the story players next (which I would say most people who still play are here for, certainly not for endgame content).

 

They did add endgame gear grind that requires sepcific type of content, content you don't want to do and you've been crying about it for months. Old content is what keeps the game alive, in ither games you get new content but imagine if they made all that old content relevant or as hard as it used to be! Sounds so much better, also the number of story players vs. endgame players is vastly biased on the forums, the people here are either bored at work (me) or have no friend in game, no guilds and nobody else to complain about, all of which not applying to endgame players. Obviously only counting subbed players not F2P because subbed people being money, F2P do not so their opinion does not matter.

 

Most of the polls have less people answering it than there being people on TC server, hell the GSF discord has more people than most of the polls. It's not accurate, everybody came for the story, nobody stays because of it - they might return because of it but they will leave afterwards. The reason why the player numbers are down is that NO endgame content was added and they should focus on that while maintaining the quality of story manaan had because the rain and rhe planet look amazing imo.

 

They should continue story, but not focus on it because a starving endgame would be the result.

Edited May 2, 2022 by ZUHFB

[juliushorst]

Do you think that the SWTOR team should step back from cinematic and story for a short time and put some time into more robust endgame areas?

 

No. At this point SWTOR can only be inferior copy of games that focused on end game group content from the start. The only area SWTOR is (or should I say, was) way ahead of the competition is the story. So, instead of trying to recruit people who worked on WOW BW should actually hire a good writer.

Edited May 2, 2022 by juliushorst

[Rammboo]

What story updates? We're lucky to get two or three story updates a year.

 

Apparently there was one but it is stuck behind a grindy FP I have no interest in or care about.

Seems you have to do Ops or FPs to get to story content again.

[Diamaht]

..also the number of story players vs. endgame players is vastly biased on the forums, ...all of which not applying to endgame players.

 

Most of the polls have less people answering it than there being people on TC server, hell the GSF discord has more people than most of the polls.

 

Well then tell them to come on in.

 

They need to start voicing what they want (not just what they don't), either here or on some other format. At some point people have to participate in their own rescue or go down with the ship.

[ZUHFB]

Well then tell them to come on in.

 

They need to start voicing what they want (not just what they don't), either here or on some other format. At some point people have to participate in their own rescue or go down with the ship.

 

A lot of the people there think they are too smart... They won't reply here because it is hard for most people to argue in a decent done because 99% of the posts can be answered with "get gud" or just someone having no idea what they are talking about. There is no reason for them to be here or to have a discussion, they can have a much more educated talk on the specific discords then they ever could here. Also it is the devs job to decide what they want to do and what the shouldn't do, it's just not the players job to do that.

 

For example, companions being bad is never a problem there because they are much better players so while they notice the difference they couldn't care less because it is still easy.

 

It's just facts, most people here are either bored - like me - or have no guild, no teams and solo everything. They voice they opinion and dislikes here because they have no other place, but because they solo everything they have no idea how to play properly (as in actually properly not just the people who say they can, but who actually do). So from my PoV it's players complaining that they since companions got """"nerfed"""" they actually have to carry their weight in solo content now, which is honestly only fair. Companions never got nerfed, presence got scaled but wording stuff correctly doesn't seem to bother most people. I see people complain about gear, but they are full 326 but don't augment it, they complain they have to do GSF for conquest and gear. But they would do it for conquest alone, why is a bonus reward a problem? They think gear matters while it doesn't, I do HM OPs every day - I play without legendaries because I can't effort them for all of my DPS, but I still do more than all others - gear doesn't matter, everyone refuses to accept that fact and in OPs gear does matter more than in solo content, but it's still a problem that they have 3 crit less on nar shaddaa - oh no! The reason why you wipe, or struggle, or anything is because you cannot play your class - but if you speak the truth you are being called a toxic elitist and the argument is lost. You can't convince people who have already made up their mind.

 

Then there are these 5 to 10 warriors who just make posts every day complaining about something new, everything could be as they want but they would still find new things and people just hop on everything they don't like. Why even bother arguing with them, they don't want to start a discussion, they just want to complain. I feel truely sorry for the poor soul who has to read all their... uneducated rambling about how everything sucks, why do I care? Because this makes a small team waste resources on stuff that doesn't matter at all, stuff like the increase of the caps - you couldn't spend all of them anyway why would you want to increase the cap, what would you buy? The answer is nothing, you wouldn't buy nothing, you wouldn't spend it on anything. You'd just cap a week later...

But they changed it, if you say something often enough I guess it becomes true. This change was not only useless, it was a complete waste. They could work on the daily area, they could work on bugs, they could work on mercs being terrible, but nah - let's make the team waste time on presence not being scaled AND IT SHOULDN'T in the first place.

 

The devs aren't on the discords anymore because of toxic players, it is an unmoderated place afterall. I can't blame them, it's just a shame that people who know what they are talking about and bring more arguments then "well I'm a founder and I've played long time" aren't on the forums, but I don't blame them either. The number of posts that make no sense increases every days and they might as well be trolling, I literally cannot tell.

 

Sorry for the rant, but I just can't take it anymore. Not the people who are making the posts, but the devs listening because there is no contra to them at all. Even if you don't think that PvE and PvP together have more players then solo content does (not counting F2P obviously) you'd still have to agree that the representation on the forums isn't accurate and I feel like people know this and abuse this.

[juliushorst]

let's make the team waste time on presence not being scaled AND IT SHOULDN'T in the first place.

 

As you say, the presence shouldn't be scaled (and neither should be alacrity, critical and accuracy). BioWare decided to introduce terrible, inferior level scaling in 7.0. It's the devs who decided to put time and effort into this pointless endeavor. People have every right to complain about it. If you are happy with the product you are paying for - great. I'm not (but fortunately I can see some moves being made in the right direction).

 

The devs aren't on the discords anymore because of toxic players, it is an unmoderated place afterall..

 

If Keith no longer participates in that raiding discord - that's great news.

 

Even if you don't think that PvE and PvP together have more players then solo content does (not counting F2P obviously) you'd still have to agree that the representation on the forums isn't accurate and I feel like people know this and abuse this.

 

There are more sources showing that the game is on a downward spiral since 7.0 came out.

Edited May 3, 2022 by juliushorst

[ZUHFB]

If Keith no longer participates in that raiding discord - that's great news.

 

Keith? What makes you think I meant him? And even if how's that great news?

[casirabit]

Well then tell them to come on in.

 

They need to start voicing what they want (not just what they don't), either here or on some other format. At some point people have to participate in their own rescue or go down with the ship.

 

Some are in guilds and tell their gl and they come and post for the guild. I know we do.

[juliushorst]

Keith? What makes you think I meant him?

 

He is in a raiding guild so it's rather safe to assume he's in their discord.

 

And even if how's that great news?

 

Because direction of the game should not be so heavily influenced by a small group of players. Many people assume some bad design decisions related to scaling and gearing that came with 7.0 were inspired by discussion on that server.

So if this influence is gone it's excellent news.

Developers have the forum to address the community and a small group of players on some secret discord server shound't appoint themselves as spokespeople for the community.

[Diamaht]

How long of a pause do you suggest?

 

No matter how much end game content has been delivered over the years, when each expansion's end game was completed (remember when Makeb was end game?) clouds of content locusts descended, devoured everything in sight, and then flew away again, complaining of... no end game content.

 

Bioware can't win. If every Bioware employee currently working on every game that Bioware has suddenly dropped what they were doing and did nothing else but develop end game content for SWTOR, SWTOR players would still complain there's not enough end game content.

 

There is no pause long enough, so let some of the other issues in the game also garner attention.

Like bugs.

Pun intended.

 

That's a more than valid point. Its is something that all of the most successful MMOs do though. Whether or not those games hold an appeal is definitely down to individual taste. However, the regular influx of revenue consistent endgame content drops generate finance everything else you want to do with the game.

 

It also keeps the game on the radar for a larger audience. Even if they do leave, they are far more ready to come back each time.

 

I just think a regular content cadence could really stabilize things.