Itemization in 7.0

[JakRoanin]

What is the difference for you between these two systems? Your gear is exactly the same. Your experience changes in no way except with the knowledge that some other people can get slightly better gear numbers through some content that you can not do. Why is this such a problem?

 

Then they can knock off 5$ from my sub.

[Damask_Rose]

It does not matter to others if you get it. But by having it obtained to solo activity, it makes it so the gearing progression is gone from the operations, as people will gear before heading into these operations, as that's easier. It's what has happened ever since Bioware decoupled nim operations from the highest gear tier, and it has killed any character progression in nim ops.

 

But let me rephrase my point with example numbers. Let's say Bioware were to release 7.0 with 326 gear as the highest rating for everybody, earned from any content as in 6.0. Presumably this would be all right to you, yes? Then image another system, where through conquest or flashpoints you can get up to 326 gear, and through the new operation 328 and 330 gear.

 

What is the difference for you between these two systems? Your gear is exactly the same. Your experience changes in no way except with the knowledge that some other people can get slightly better gear numbers through some content that you can not do. Why is this such a problem? If the gear you can gather is good enough so that you get a similar or even better experience playing solo than in 6.0, why would it then matter that some other people get a little bit extra, to allow them to have character progression in the content they wanna do?

 

Since it is so very important to raiders for raiders to have exclusive gear so they aren't seduced away by flashpoints, I suggest that all content get stat caped so everyone has a level playing field in all content. If 326 is the highest a solo player can get, then all solo content should be capped at 326. If hm flashpoints only count for 328 gear progression, they should be capped at 328. That keeps NiM gear relevant for NiM operations, and NiM operations only. Since they plan on stat capping pvp, surely it wouldn't be that much harder to stat cap other lvl 80 activities? But they need to give mods back to all ilevels so everyone can optimize their gear. Restricting mods was just plain malevolent.

[TrixxieTriss]

But they need to give mods back to all ilevels so everyone can optimize their gear. Restricting mods was just plain malevolent.

 

THIS ^^ Exactly THIS ^^

 

There is zero reason they can’t add the same type of mod vendor for each gear progression. Locking it behind operations is ridiculous.

 

We know for a fact that Bioware don’t understand their own stats for different parts of the game or classes. They are still trying to put accuracy on healers gear and accuracy on Sorcs on pvp.

 

There wouldn’t even be a Theory Crafters Discord if BioWare understood how stats should be min maxed, it would be called something else, like SWToR Parser. At least one person at BioWare know’s this or they wouldn’t have put a mods vendor there for the operations guys.

 

This is what’s causing all the anger from players who don’t play operations. We’ve basically been shafted by BioWare while they still cater to a select few.

 

Pvpers like to min max to get their stats balanced for their preferred setup and style. It could be said it’s even more important for them because playing against other humans is intrinsically harder that playing scripted combat that can be predicted and cheesed.

 

And what about people who specialise in flash points? The MM ones can be hard like operations and require balancing your gear stats to get the best performance. Especially if they like to push to do them solo or with two people.

 

How about solo players who like to push their skills doing the hardest small group content solo. Or doing mastermode chapters solo. I’d like to see anyone at BioWare able to complete EVERY chapter in MM without the best gear that’s been min maxed. It just wouldn’t be possible.

 

And lastly, anyone who thinks BioWare have had time to go back and perfectly rebalance all the old content after the class pruning (even with LvL sync) is sorely mistaken. Which means some parts may still require having better balanced gear than they will provide with their cookie cutter gear. Otherwise you’re going to have parts that are stupidity easy or stupidly hard. Sadly, you won’t be able to improve our gear if it’s hard because BioWare lock it behind content you don’t play.

 

Feel free to let BioWare know how you feel about 7.0 by clicking the link in my signature. It’s a reddit survey for the next 2 days.

Edited November 8, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

As an added note, it's not just the item rating that's different. Conquest gear is horribly optimized. Like, bad. Worse than 306 gear in downscaled content levels of bad. As an example, Item Rating 330 (so that's 5 upgrades deep I believe, and 4 irating above what's been indicated as the max) still has less Power than an equivalent piece of 306 Onderonian gear. See here. This tracks for all of the gear that I've seen thus far in the Conquest track. The 320 relics have procs that are worse than the green 270 relics. The difference from an equivalent 306 relic's proc is closer to 1000 of the relevant stat.

 

Another wrinkle is that this affects level sync too. Level sync takes your stat distribution into account, so you'll have less power and mastery when downscaled in 7.0's Conquest gear than you would if you just wore your old 306 gear, and would only meaningfully outdo the 306 gear in endurance (because the 7.0 Conquest set is extremely endurance heavy). Again, this is assuming the static Onderonian set too, so not even some uber min-max'd 306 set bonus gear, just the baseline static 306 set is better optimized by a country mile than 7.0's Conquest gear.

 

This also makes me wonder how PVP scaling is going to work, because the PVP gear looks mighty similar to the Conquest gear and actually starts at a lower irating. If it has the same problem of stat distribution, the idea that PVP gear won't be worse than raid gear in PVP is just... not true, since raid gear would be more optimized and, even if it's not, NIM raiders still have access to mods to freely optimize their stats as they please, no other playstyle does.

Edited November 8, 2021 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[AdjeYo]

Since it is so very important to raiders for raiders to have exclusive gear so they aren't seduced away by flashpoints, I suggest that all content get stat caped so everyone has a level playing field in all content. If 326 is the highest a solo player can get, then all solo content should be capped at 326. If hm flashpoints only count for 328 gear progression, they should be capped at 328. That keeps NiM gear relevant for NiM operations, and NiM operations only. Since they plan on stat capping pvp, surely it wouldn't be that much harder to stat cap other lvl 80 activities? But they need to give mods back to all ilevels so everyone can optimize their gear. Restricting mods was just plain malevolent.

 

Sure, if the stat caps are implemented fairly this seems like a fair system that allows everyone their progression, but in such a way where getting gear from other content doesn't incredibly overpower you.

 

About the mods I 100% absolutely agree. Ideally I'd like to see all tiers being moddable gear, but if Bioware insist on only top tier gear being moddable my suggestion is this: Have the highest rated gear from each "gearing path" be moddable. It doesn't allow for customisation along the way sadly. But at least everyone, regardless of what content they play, will be able to customise their stats at the end goal.

Edited November 8, 2021 by AdjeYo

[Pricia]

As an added note, it's not just the item rating that's different. Conquest gear is horribly optimized. Like, bad. Worse than 306 gear in downscaled content levels of bad. As an example, Item Rating 330 (so that's 5 upgrades deep I believe, and 4 irating above what's been indicated as the max) still has less Power than an equivalent piece of 306 Onderonian gear. See here. This tracks for all of the gear that I've seen thus far in the Conquest track. The 320 relics have procs that are worse than the green 270 relics. The difference from an equivalent 306 relic's proc is closer to 1000 of the relevant stat.

 

Another wrinkle is that this affects level sync too. Level sync takes your stat distribution into account, so you'll have less power and mastery when downscaled in 7.0's Conquest gear than you would if you just wore your old 306 gear, and would only meaningfully outdo the 306 gear in endurance (because the 7.0 Conquest set is extremely endurance heavy). Again, this is assuming the static Onderonian set too, so not even some uber min-max'd 306 set bonus gear, just the baseline static 306 set is better optimized by a country mile than 7.0's Conquest gear.

 

This also makes me wonder how PVP scaling is going to work, because the PVP gear looks mighty similar to the Conquest gear and actually starts at a lower irating. If it has the same problem of stat distribution, the idea that PVP gear won't be worse than raid gear in PVP is just... not true, since raid gear would be more optimized and, even if it's not, NIM raiders still have access to mods to freely optimize their stats as they please, no other playstyle does.

 

This is scary.

[Tsillah]

As an added note, it's not just the item rating that's different. Conquest gear is horribly optimized. Like, bad. Worse than 306 gear in downscaled content levels of bad. As an example, Item Rating 330 (so that's 5 upgrades deep I believe, and 4 irating above what's been indicated as the max) still has less Power than an equivalent piece of 306 Onderonian gear. See here. This tracks for all of the gear that I've seen thus far in the Conquest track. The 320 relics have procs that are worse than the green 270 relics. The difference from an equivalent 306 relic's proc is closer to 1000 of the relevant stat.

Don't act like optimization is really relevant for people playing casual PvE. That's what conquest gear is for I would imagine. There is enough mastery extra to make up for having essentially the same amount of power.

Another wrinkle is that this affects level sync too. Level sync takes your stat distribution into account, so you'll have less power and mastery when downscaled in 7.0's Conquest gear than you would if you just wore your old 306 gear, and would only meaningfully outdo the 306 gear in endurance (because the 7.0 Conquest set is extremely endurance heavy). Again, this is assuming the static Onderonian set too, so not even some uber min-max'd 306 set bonus gear, just the baseline static 306 set is better optimized by a country mile than 7.0's Conquest gear.

Currently there are hard caps on endurance and mastery in level sync and a fixed amount of power. So it doesn't make a difference how much power your gear actually has.

This also makes me wonder how PVP scaling is going to work, because the PVP gear looks mighty similar to the Conquest gear and actually starts at a lower irating. If it has the same problem of stat distribution, the idea that PVP gear won't be worse than raid gear in PVP is just... not true, since raid gear would be more optimized and, even if it's not, NIM raiders still have access to mods to freely optimize their stats as they please, no other playstyle does.

Well perhaps you should read the blog better. It states there:

PvP Warzones and Arenas will feature both a statistical floor and ceiling. This allows a wide range of participants to join, gives a clear gearing and upgrade path exclusively through PvP activities if desired, and will stat cap anyone joining with higher rated gear than allowed

 

So there's your answer. Even if raid gear can be optimized better this statistical ceiling will take care of that difference.

[AleksandarKey]

For the record I've been in exile for 2~3 years after seeing the 5.0 and the RNG stuff, however most of the time since 2013-2014 I have enjoyed most of the content as sub and pref. player. Anyway last month I've made my choice and Re-subscribed once more and I really enjoyed the new Renown system as well as the free gear inside.

 

Hey folks,

 

With the release of our Itemization in 7.0 article, we wanted to add some clarity around some of the details of that article in addition to providing some supplementary information.

 

In addition to the removal of the Renown system mentioned in the article, we are changing the Social and server-wide Dark vs. Light systems.

 

What will happen to Renown Achievements, Legacy Perks, and Boosts

• Achievements will for the most part be moved to Feats of Strength, and have their point values removed (with the exception of Social achievements, as described below).
  
• Legacy Perks related to these systems will be removed starting in 7.0.
  
  • Starting today, Renown and Social Legacy Perks will have their Cartel Coin price reduced to 1
    

  [*]Renown Boosts will be removed from the Cartel Market next Monday, November 8th. Until then, they will be discounted by 90%

  • Upon 7.0 launch, existing boost items for these systems (Renown and Social) will no longer work, and will be able to be sold to vendors for a small number of credits
    

 

What will happen to the Social rewards?

• We are converting the system from awarding points based on conversation choices to instead reward grouping for activities. Details of the changes are:
  
  • Achievements have been reworked to now require Group Finder activities rather than Social Levels.
    
  • The character titles which previously came with the achievements are now exclusive to those who already completed the Achievement. For 7.0 and forward, the updated Achievements will grant Legacy Titles of the same titles (rather than Character ones).
    
  • These Achievements will gate the visibility and purchase of the items on Social vendors. As players progress through the achievements, more items will become available.
    
  • The two fleet social vendors will be moved to the Cantina area on both fleets and have all Social items previously available.
    
  • The old vendors around the galaxy will still be available, but they will only have inventory based on the player's achievement progress.
    

 

What will happen to the Dark vs Light system?

• First, let’s clarify exactly what we’re talking about with the Dark vs. Light system. The individual character alignment system, where morality choices made throughout the story in conversations or via the Diplomacy crew skill in order to move a character’s alignment between Dark and Light sides of the Force, will remain unchanged.
  
• The server-wide Dark vs Light meter which would pop up every so often to reflect the balance in the galaxy will be removed.
  
• The small alignment widget in the UI will be removed
  
• The alignment choice every time group finder pops will be removed
  
• The DvL bosses that spawned in the world when one side was victorious will be removed temporarily. We plan on re-introducing them in a future update.
  
• The DvL rewards vendors will remain in place on both Fleets
  
• To compensate for the loss of constant alignment gain, character alignment levels and thresholds will revert to pre-Dark vs. Light system totals
  

 

We'll be keeping an eye on this thread to answer questions that may have not been answered in the post.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Really, really bad decisions have been made and this probably is my last SWTOR month for 2021

Edited November 8, 2021 by AleksandarKey

[Pricia]

You know, all the people saying that you don't need high rating to do story/cq content... Why not? I mean, it gives something for people to do. It gives something for people to keep playing. Whatever type of content you enjoy, it's nice to keep getting upgrades.

 

Also, people are forgetting about the Spirit of Vengeance fiasco as well. I'd rather be prepared if it happens again.

[Tsillah]

You know, all the people saying that you don't need high rating to do story/cq content... Why not? I mean, it gives something for people to do. It gives something for people to keep playing. Whatever type of content you enjoy, it's nice to keep getting upgrades.

That's why they allow for upgrading gear in any category. The problem is that people who beat harder challenges should be rewarded for it. It's normal to reward achievements, but also progression gearing is a very enjoyable thing to do. I get that not everybody understands how progression gearing is really rewarding and fun for raid groups but they've failed to replace that with something else and that is why not.

 

Also, people are forgetting about the Spirit of Vengeance fiasco as well. I'd rather be prepared if it happens again.

Well just because of one fiasco is no reason for such a change. The fiasco would've happened regardless of gear. Also the fact that they use FPs for the main story lines is just a bad idea. That's the real problem in my view.

[Farferello]

Saying you don't need high gear for solo/story content... did people forget that the Mando flashpoint has had to be nerfed 3-4 times at least, because people were having trouble doing it in just the basic gear they got from doing the story and not grinding gear out? If they continue making solo story content overtuned like that, then yes, people will need better gear. Even in 306 set bonus gear that flashpoint can still be a pain because random mobs hit harder than any of the actual bosses do. Having a higher gear rating certainly helps take the edge off, especially if they insist on forcing on you a low influence companion (last time I did the Enclave one, Rivix was still only coming in at influence 1 for me compared to Arn's 25) combined with no combat droid to help, then it's going to get messy.

 

Seeing that gear will now be down synced on even tertiary stats in non level 80 content it will be even more of a pain if it's knocking down our accuracy/crit/alacrity. The Conquest gear we can't mod looks very Endurance heavy for some reason which kinda sucks and hurts even more if you want to meet your classes stat break points.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Farferello

[Gamersiren]

Hi, I don't normally post on forums unless it's the only way to communicate something (like a bug or whatever), so this is probably a one off shout into the void type of thing.

 

I logged on today to add a couple of months to my sub, because I've generally enjoyed this game and played it on and off for years now, so I thought: "why not subs a bit extra and support this game some more, even if I'm not going to be playing much until expansion hits". Then I read this update and now I regret spending that money.

 

I mean shared tagging is good I guess (welcome to what was added in like 2013 in every other mmo tho <<), but why only on world bosses? And why not also shared material node and quest clicky tagging while you're at it?

Otherwise, it seems to me that for us solo players and casuals you're removing a lot of things we had, and you are giving us almost nothing in return.

 

I ENJOY being able to customize my gear stats, it gives me something else to do than endlessly repeat old content, and allows me to create gear that fits my playstyle better than the static stuff. This will be gone.

 

I ENJOY being able to pick and choose which weeklies and dalies to do any given day/week. This will be gone.

 

I LIKE being able to jump in a few hours one week, do whatever part of weeklies/dailies I want, log off and then come back a week or 2 later and do the rest. This will be gone.

 

I LIKE crafting my own stuff, I have every type of crafting and gathering spread out over a bunch of characters. There seems to be no new tiers coming any time soon and nothing new to craft.

 

I ENJOY challenging content intended for solo play, like vet chapters, SF h2, and the EC, even if the rewards are mostly terrible or non existent. There have not been any new challenging solo content for ages, not even vet/mm version of solo FPs (not counting the SoV bugs...), and it seems you're not adding any new ones this time either, nor putting better rewards on the ones we have. So much for rewarding people for doing challenging content, guess that's only if you're a raider.

 

Those are the essentials for me, most of the rest of the changes I'm either neutral or meh to. I kinda liked the d v l switch making it easier for me to make a neutral character for example, and amplifiers adding some different buffs to gear, tho the rng stuff involved wasn't great. I can live without either, I just thought they were neat things, that maybe could've been improved instead of removed.

 

Anyways, at the end of all this what is left for someone like me to do? Maybe 2h of new story if we're lucky (not repeatable), maybe some new dailies, and the rest is grinding the same old content for conquest to get inferior gear that I can't even modify? Only now I also get to stand in line with a buch of other people to click the quest objectives in the dailies I guess. Maybe you guys should install one of those que ticket machines at CZ and a guard droid to make sure we all form up correctly and don't sneak in line....

 

I feel like I'm being told that, because I play this game solo, I'm too stupid to handle any kind of complexity and too stupid to even decide what content to do on any given day, so please, please tell me: why should I keep paying for a game that suddenly decide to take away many of the things I enjoy and insult my playstyle on top of it? Yea, I don't really expect any answer to this, considering how there's no answers to anything else in this thread.

 

Oh well. Guess I'll play the new lotro expansion instead. Laters!

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

Don't act like optimization is really relevant for people playing casual PvE. That's what conquest gear is for I would imagine. There is enough mastery extra to make up for having essentially the same amount of power.

 

And please don't act as if solo players all have the same skill level, or all play the same content. The optimization may come into play for something like harder solo content, which won't drop higher gear (and some of which may be downscaled as well). If you don't play group content, the Conquest gear is all you have and you don't have the option to optimize it better. So while most players may not need the optimization, not having the option whatsoever will hurt some.

 

Currently there are hard caps on endurance and mastery in level sync and a fixed amount of power. So it doesn't make a difference how much power your gear actually has.

 

I know this, I'm not talking about currently on live, I'm talking about currently on the PTS. I've been testing this stuff, I'm not just saying random crap for giggles or guessing here. I tested this. What I'm telling you is that right now, on the PTS, in downscaled content, there is a difference between 306 and 7.0's gear because level sync was changed and now takes stat distribution into account.

 

You're welcome to go test this yourself if you don't believe me, but on the PTS, you are straight up wrong. Level sync doesn't work that way anymore.

 

 

Well perhaps you should read the blog better. It states there:

PvP Warzones and Arenas will feature both a statistical floor and ceiling. This allows a wide range of participants to join, gives a clear gearing and upgrade path exclusively through PvP activities if desired, and will stat cap anyone joining with higher rated gear than allowed

 

So there's your answer. Even if raid gear can be optimized better this statistical ceiling will take care of that difference.

 

I read the blog post just fine thanks, we don't know the full details for this system yet. For example: how does that "statistical ceiling" work? That's where my concern is. Because level sync also seems to be applying a general stat ceiling, where you have total allocation of stats and they're then distributed based on your gear's stat distribution (which is what allows 306 gear to beat out 7.0's gear). If that's the case in PVP, with PVP gear being similarly poorly optimized, you could still have a situation where two characters have the same stat total and are thus at the same statistical ceiling, but because one is in less optimized gear, they have worse stats and are more endurance heavy (as Conquest gear is). In ranked PVP, I imagine that would matter.

 

This concern was brought up because of my observation of how the stats work in downscaled content on the PTS, and it's just that, a concern. I don't know for sure, because we don't have the full details on this system yet. I'd like to see Bioware make a comment on it and tell us more on how it works and, hopefully, if this would actually be a problem or not.

 

EDIT: And here's validation for why I was concerned. Still doesn't confirm this will be an issue, but it's confirmation that PVP's stat capping and the new level sync are the same system. Hopefully we can get confirmation from Bioware that PVP's version of it is tuned in such a way that it doesn't allow Ops gear to be better optimized for PVP than PVP gear when downscaled. But I think this proves that my concern is, at the very least, reasonable.

Edited November 9, 2021 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[JakRoanin]

I feel like I'm being told that, because I play this game solo, I'm too stupid to handle any kind of complexity... Yea, I don't really expect any answer to this, considering how there's no answers to anything else in this thread.

 

I feel the same way. It's hurtful, bad business, nd just plain awful. Help us JackieKo, you're our only hope!

[Akushii]

As an added note, it's not just the item rating that's different. Conquest gear is horribly optimized. Like, bad. Worse than 306 gear in downscaled content levels of bad. As an example, Item Rating 330 (so that's 5 upgrades deep I believe, and 4 irating above what's been indicated as the max) still has less Power than an equivalent piece of 306 Onderonian gear. See here. This tracks for all of the gear that I've seen thus far in the Conquest track. The 320 relics have procs that are worse than the green 270 relics. The difference from an equivalent 306 relic's proc is closer to 1000 of the relevant stat.

 

For the Decurion gear, it seems you lose only 1 power but gain 185 mastery and 96 crit. Power and Mastery have close to 1:1 relevancy, with mastery giving slightly less damage but adding some extra crit. So the Decurion gear is still better. Not sure what's going on with the relics there. Hopefully they tune that. I mean 'technically' the Decurion relic is better because you lose 40 master on the proc but gain 100 power on the base stat. But it's still a weird design.

 

On the debate of having moddable gear. I actually wouldn't mind going the other direction. Get rid of moddable gear altogether. Even in higher end and operations, just have static gear. I know having moddable gear excites theorycrafter and gives people something to do. But I have seen so many plyaers running around with bad stats because they didn't know better. I've seen people in 306 gear running around with over 2000 accuracy, or people with under 700 crit, or dps with the high endurance mods etc. Just get rid of moddable gear and make gears a little more optimized. This is coming from someone that spent a lot of time hunting down the R-2/R-3 mods and R-18 R-19 enhancements to min/max everything to the point on multiple characters.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Akushii

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

For the Decurion gear, it seems you lose only 1 power but gain 185 mastery and 96 crit. Power and Mastery have close to 1:1 relevancy, with mastery giving slightly less damage but adding some extra crit. So the Decurion gear is still better. Not sure what's going on with the relics there. Hopefully they tune that. I mean 'technically' the Decurion relic is better because you lose 40 master on the proc but gain 100 power on the base stat. But it's still a weird design.

 

Keep in mind, that screenshot was of a piece of 330 gear, which is higher than it's been indicated we'll be able to go for non-Ops gear and 5 upgrades deep. The stats on the lower tiers of gear is, naturally, lower (Mastery goes up by about 20 per step, and Power goes up by just over 10 each step, endurance goes up by more because the gear is endurance heavy). However, generally, in level 80 content, yes, Decurion gear will be better. But in downscaled content where the stat distribution on Decurion gear will lead you to having less of both Mastery and Power compared to 306 gear (because of the changes to level sync that I mentioned), it's not better.

 

On the relics, the Decurion relic is only better than lower level 6.0 relics. I didn't compare with a 306 because I took that screenshot while responding to a thread on the PTS forums that had already pointed out that the relics are worse than 306 relics of the same type. But as an example, a 306 Relic of Focused Retribution gives you 2892 Mastery on its proc, and is only 30 power short, roughly. There is no question about that one, 306 relics would be better pretty much everywhere. The question is at what point in the gear upgrades does that change, and in which gear track? I would hope FP & Ops gear have relics that are better than 306 relics.

 

On the debate of having moddable gear. I actually wouldn't mind going the other direction. Get rid of moddable gear altogether. Even in higher end and operations, just have static gear. I know having moddable gear excites theorycrafter and gives people something to do. But I have seen so many plyaers running around with bad stats because they didn't know better. I've seen people in 306 gear running around with over 2000 accuracy, or people with under 700 crit, or dps with the high endurance mods etc. Just get rid of moddable gear and make gears a little more optimized. This is coming from someone that spent a lot of time hunting down the R-2/R-3 mods and R-18 R-19 enhancements to min/max everything to the point on multiple characters.

 

I wouldn't hate this if the regular gear had close to the correct stat distributions, but it just doesn't. As it stands currently on the PTS, you have to specifically change the menu to allow you to see all of the gear, then dig through all of the gear to find the flipped dps set that has accuracy on a different piece in order to hit the accuracy target for 7.0, and that's with all 3 of the left side pieces being accuracy. The target is almost 2700. I don't know if this is also true of the Flashpoint/Ops gear, but that'd be a lot worse since you can't just randomly get a piece of gear meant for a different class in order to make up the extra accuracy. You'd basically be forced to augment transitional gear in order to make up the extra accuracy, since that would also be even more important for those modes, or you'd have to play that content on another class to get that accuracy piece and then send it over to the original character for upgrades from there.

 

Part of this comes from just how astronomically high the accuracy target is in 7.0 (2700 is a jump of like 1000 points of accuracy compared to 6.0's target, but a piece of 330 Conquest gear only has an extra 100 points of the tertiary stat compared to 306 gear). But if the 7.0 gear was even close to as optimized as that Onderonian gear and was closer to the level 80 stat distribution targets? Sure, static gear would be more palatable. I'd still prefer moddable gear just for the sake of having some stability at endgame when augments start to become a consideration, but I could live with it. But that's not the case, at least not currently as far as I can tell.

[Exly]

For the Decurion gear, it seems you lose only 1 power but gain 185 mastery and 96 crit. Power and Mastery have close to 1:1 relevancy, with mastery giving slightly less damage but adding some extra crit. So the Decurion gear is still better. Not sure what's going on with the relics there. Hopefully they tune that. I mean 'technically' the Decurion relic is better because you lose 40 master on the proc but gain 100 power on the base stat. But it's still a weird design.

 

On the debate of having moddable gear. I actually wouldn't mind going the other direction. Get rid of moddable gear altogether. Even in higher end and operations, just have static gear. I know having moddable gear excites theorycrafter and gives people something to do. But I have seen so many plyaers running around with bad stats because they didn't know better. I've seen people in 306 gear running around with over 2000 accuracy, or people with under 700 crit, or dps with the high endurance mods etc. Just get rid of moddable gear and make gears a little more optimized. This is coming from someone that spent a lot of time hunting down the R-2/R-3 mods and R-18 R-19 enhancements to min/max everything to the point on multiple characters.

 

So what. 258 gear is better than 248 gear. That doesn't mean that it is good enough for level 80 content, especially end game PvP or PvE.

 

People don't just want level 80 gear to be better than level 75 gear, they want good gear. Why is that so hard to understand?

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

So what. 258 gear is better than 248 gear. That doesn't mean that it is good enough for level 80 content, especially end game PvP or PvE.

 

People don't just want level 80 gear to be better than level 75 gear, they want good gear. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Yeah. Like, the problem for me personally is that this gear doesn't feel like "progression" over where I was in 6.0. With how level sync now works, my 306 gear will still be better for downscaled content, and even for level 80 content the way the level 80 gear is so horribly unoptimized it makes it feel worse than my gear at level 75 did. There are people who have better gear than I do currently in 6.0, via irating 300 augments and what not, and that doesn't bother me as much because I feel like what I have is still good, such that I feel like I can go participate in group content if I feel like doing so and my gear won't be an issue. But Conquest gear in 7.0 is back to the old endurance heavy paradigm solo players had years ago where if I go step into group content, I'll feel like I'm not in gear meant for this type of content and will always feel like I'm punching up. For somebody that doesn't generally feel comfortable in group content to begin with, I'm not fond of that, and it'll actually put me off engaging in that content like I have in the past (along with changes to the weeklies and such).

 

I feel like there were ways to make this kind of system work, still feel "rewarding" for solo players, PVP players, etc, while still preserving this design philosophy they're going for of Ops players having it easier & being able to skip it almost entirely. You basically do the exact same setup, but with just one single set of gear. Flashpoints can drop pieces of gear that are further along the track, MM go even further than that, and then Ops can drop gear closer to the end of the track, with tokens being given that give you either the last step or second to last step based on however BW is planning to balance that. Then you tune the upgrade paths such that FPs are faster than solo, Ops are faster than FPs, and if you want to cap out non-Ops gear you could a final tier to the MM of the new op that isn't part of the upgrade path that's exclusive to that content.

 

Main point being they're all part of one track, with one set of stat distributions/optimizations, so the spirit behind the 306 Onderonian gear can still be present for casual play while making sure the ease of upgrades follows their path of "risk" vs reward (Ops > FPs > Solo), and also leaving open the ability to give Ops their own extra tier at the end. This also means that if you upgrade one piece by playing Flashpoints, for instance, you can still continue to upgrade that piece while playing solo, or upgrade an Ops piece by playing Flashpoints, because it's all one set. Not this current situation where if you decide to wander out of your comfort zone and get a new piece of gear, you're stuck in a situation where you can't upgrade it unless you commit to that content more regularly, which just further disincentivizes players from playing outside of their comfort zones.

Edited November 8, 2021 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[JakRoanin]

I just heard from @JackieKo looks like we made enough noise.

[chaharbagh]

I am still waiting for an official answer.

 

Any ideas, @JackieKo?

Edited November 9, 2021 by chaharbagh

[TrixxieTriss]

I just heard from @JackieKo looks like we made enough noise.

 

Care to post what she said so the whole community knows?

[JakRoanin]

Care to post what she said so the whole community knows?

 

Is that even allowed I got dinged for spamming (which was an accident) I don't want to be dinged again. She said she's been busy preparing a post to answer a lot of questions and hopefully it will be up tomorrow or Wednesday. She seems to be taking this very seriously. She's very kind.

[TrixxieTriss]

Is that even allowed I got dinged for spamming (which was an accident) I don't want to be dinged again. She said she's been busy preparing a post to answer a lot of questions and hopefully it will be up tomorrow or Wednesday. She seems to be taking this very seriously. She's very kind.

 

I don’t think it’s against the rules to tell us the gist of what she said. But who knows anything for sure?

 

I’m glad she’s going to respond and yes she is a kind person. But remember she can only respond with what the devs are or are not willing to do.

 

So I wouldn’t get your hopes up of Jackie posting any major changes being made from our feed back just yet. Remember most of the feed back was over the weekend and I wouldn’t expect there’s been enough time for them to form any proper notions to make changes. If they already have, then it makes me wonder if they already knew this wasn’t going to be well received. Which makes me question why they announced such changes to start with?

[JakRoanin]

Oh I understand it doesn't mean anything will change. That's not her job anyway, but I feel better knowing that she knows what my concerns are and can get the answers I need. They may not be what I want, but that's not her job either. It was nice to know I was heard.

[TrixxieTriss]

Oh I understand it doesn't mean anything will change. That's not her job anyway, but I feel better knowing that she knows what my concerns are and can get the answers I need. They may not be what I want, but that's not her job either. It was nice to know I was heard.

 

True. Hopefully some of our concerns will affect change.