What does (re)playing a "class" story using a "non-class" combat style mean to you?

[Tsillah]

Will probably feel the same as when I lost the fun Project to the stupid Psychokinetic Blast.

My sub runs out in January (I renew it every 6 months). Whether I will renew it this time or not depends entirely on 7.0 and it's not looking good.

 

Even if this ends up being ok, there is still the issue that I don't have enough variety in things to do. All I can do now is repeat things ad infinitum at this point. Get achievements for doing the same stuff for the 50th or 100th time. Or do things that I really don't like (which I won't do). And 7.0 will not bring a lot of new content, on the contrary, but it will bring new ways to play exactly the same content over and over again. That's not gonna keep me busy for long.

 

I'm not even playing SWTOR right now. I log in occasionally and that's it. I'll give 7.0 a shot but the last time I took a break it was around 1.5-2 years.

 

It sucks but what can I do when I get bored with this game? Take another break indeed, but then it will be even longer likely, before I come back again. And I really don't like what they've done with the game in the last few expansions. /shrug

[Soljin]

My sub runs out in January (I renew it every 6 months). Whether I will renew it this time or not depends entirely on 7.0 and it's not looking good.

 

Even if this ends up being ok, there is still the issue that I don't have enough variety in things to do. All I can do now is repeat things ad infinitum at this point. Get achievements for doing the same stuff for the 50th or 100th time. Or do things that I really don't like (which I won't do). And 7.0 will not bring a lot of new content, on the contrary, but it will bring new ways to play exactly the same content over and over again. That's not gonna keep me busy for long.

 

I'm not even playing SWTOR right now. I log in occasionally and that's it. I'll give 7.0 a shot but the last time I took a break it was around 1.5-2 years.

 

It sucks but what can I do when I get bored with this game? Take another break indeed, but then it will be even longer likely, before I come back again. And I really don't like what they've done with the game in the last few expansions. /shrug

 

I can empathize with this... To put my feelings on the game simply I find it fairly boring to play and I wish it wasn't. The only way I can describe it is that I just don't feel compelled to do anything in the game. I want to be in the game but once I get there this general feeling of "why bother" sets in and I either go back and play a class story line or I log out.

 

The reason I keep coming back is just being hopeful that the game has changed in a way that now inspires me to play multiple aspects of the game...I don't come back to lurk on the forums I just end up here in search of a compelling reason to stick around...which never turns out well as it happens.

 

With that said I will try 7.0 and give it a fair shot.

 

I wish the Dev team lots of luck and I hope you knock 7.0 out of the park.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Soljin

[Soljin]

While making the combat like Dark Souls would be going too far SWTOR needs some kind of update or refresh to its combat. It doesn't have anything to call its own and what it does have doesn't hold up to the competition.

 

Yeah I just tossed out a random idea that sounded fun... I agree it's not a realistic suggestion. I also agree that SWToR needs it's own unique combat hook to keep people engaged.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Soljin

[ImmortalLowlife]

My favorite classes are the guardian tank and the arsenal Merc. I'm definitely gonna make a Jedi consular tank, and a trooper with 2 blasters. I'll likely replay several characters of each class with a different build.

[Tsillah]

To put my feelings on the game simply I find it fairly boring to play and I wish it wasn't.

QFT - this is how I feel about the game as well. For me the breaks are getting longer and longer though and I see that as a worrying situation. But to be honest there isn't much to come back for except nostalgia. That's a powerful thing but since I don't really care for the newer content of the last few expansions, the nostalgia factor is getting pretty slim.

[Galbsadi]

Honestly, the idea of multiple combat styles is one of the best ideas I think they've come up with. I absolutely love it. Specifically, since I mainly play tanks and healers, this will allow all of them to have a second setup that will likely be exclusively DPS (maybe a couple will be both tanks and healers, we'll see). That part to me is fantastic.

 

The biggest issues I'm seeing right now are, in order:

1.) The complete lack of support for items such as simple connection issues from EA.

2.) Deleting iconic abilities (sleep dart from operatives, saber throw from guardians [note: they reverted the latter, and gave it back as of this iteration of PTS])

 

I'm not against ability pruning, as a rule, either. It just needs to be the RIGHT abilities, or done the right way. (For example, in the case of Saber Throw, they could remove it by semi-integrating it with Dispatch [i.e. make Dispatch usable on demand at any health level, but give a damage bonus or guaranteed crit or something below the requisite percentage, maybe have a 'talent' under the new system be to remove the focus/rage cost... then nobody would really mind Saber Throw itself going away)

 

But non-class combat styles? I think it's brilliant.

[OlBuzzard]

My sub runs out in January (I renew it every 6 months). Whether I will renew it this time or not depends entirely on 7.0 and it's not looking good.

 

Even if this ends up being ok, there is still the issue that I don't have enough variety in things to do. All I can do now is repeat things ad infinitum at this point. Get achievements for doing the same stuff for the 50th or 100th time. Or do things that I really don't like (which I won't do). And 7.0 will not bring a lot of new content, on the contrary, but it will bring new ways to play exactly the same content over and over again. That's not gonna keep me busy for long.

 

I'm not even playing SWTOR right now. I log in occasionally and that's it. I'll give 7.0 a shot but the last time I took a break it was around 1.5-2 years.

 

It sucks but what can I do when I get bored with this game? Take another break indeed, but then it will be even longer likely, before I come back again. And I really don't like what they've done with the game in the last few expansions. /shrug

 

I'm pretty much right there with you.

 

I know we spar from time to time regarding various parts of the game. Differences that TBH are good ones to explore and discuss with someone who appreciates the value of such dialogues without treating each other as though it were an interrogation of sorts !

 

In short .. 7.0 will either give the game some much needed new life or it will be SWTOR's epitaph.

 

IMO there is so much that could and should have been explored !! I guess that there are some aspects of gaming that I will simply never understand.

 

I do genuinely hope for the best. But at the moment that seems to be a bit of a stretch !!

[Tsillah]

I'm pretty much right there with you.

Well it seems like more people feel like this. Not sure if it's something BW worries about as the number of people that are like this are snowed under by the rest.

I know we spar from time to time regarding various parts of the game. Differences that TBH are good ones to explore and discuss with someone who appreciates the value of such dialogues without treating each other as though it were an interrogation of sorts !

Well we like different things and therefore we focus on different things and that means that whatever BW does can affect us differently. I've always appreciated discussing those differences.

In short .. 7.0 will either give the game some much needed new life or it will be SWTOR's epitaph.

Well it might be the epitaph for you and me and probably some other people but I doubt it will be SWTOR's epitaph.

IMO there is so much that could and should have been explored !! I guess that there are some aspects of gaming that I will simply never understand.

Yeah, for years I was like that. I paid for the potential that never got realized. I stopped doing that at some point. I looked at what was and then judged if that was worth my time. Currently, this game is not worth my time. I spend more time on this forum than in game lol. But hey, that's part of the sub, so at least I'm still using my sub

I do genuinely hope for the best. But at the moment that seems to be a bit of a stretch !!

I do have hopes on various accounts, but it's tempered with a healthy dose of realism:

• Story - For me the story could still be cool if it surprises me with the direction, fits all classes and isn't different for rep and imp players (meaning the saboteur approach).
  
• New Ops - the new Ops could be really cool in atmosphere and boss mechanics. I don't mean the harder the better but actually fun. The last two Ops were just not fun for me even though I played the Ops before it in all modes.
  
• Gearing system - they haven't said anything about this yet. So that raises my curiosity. However, it could be equally a disappointment or great.
  

I don't expect these things to happen in a way that I would enjoy, but I do hope it. I really want to keep playing SWTOR but right now there's just nothing here for me. No conquest or seasons or combat styles are going to cover up that content hole.

[starbuckone]

And how many times will you replay that story with a different combat style?

How much mileage is in this, especially if you've already played all the stories with any number of toons, each with their own headcanon?

 

Well right now after being with SWTOR since 2008 and yes I was an original tester. I like to see where the different storyline options end up. I currently have around 100 characters active across three servers out of 225 total across all five servers possible. So I can create a lot more. The possibilities are endless especially when the next expansion goes live.

[OlBuzzard]

Well it seems like more people feel like this. Not sure if it's something BW worries about as the number of people that are like this are snowed under by the rest.

 

I can assure you that no one at BW / EA looses any sleep over what I think !! HA !!

 

Well we like different things and therefore we focus on different things and that means that whatever BW does can affect us differently. I've always appreciated discussing those differences.

 

Same here !! Much appreciated !!

Well it might be the epitaph for you and me and probably some other people but I doubt it will be SWTOR's epitaph.

 

Normally I would agree with this statement. But even though the 10 year celebration is to be one that is stretched over a year (or more) if things don't pan out this time IMO the customer base is not strong enough to support another mass exodus. Micro transactions or not .. if this one goes south badly ... this could be the last "major release" of the game.

 

I really hope I'm wrong. Yet ... as you say that hope is tempered with the cold hard facts that so much of what made SWTOR what it WAS ... no longer seems to be even so much as a consideration for any future releases (let alone returning with any hopes of expansion). If there are any plans ( returning interactive companions for example) ... it's being kept REALLY, REALLY quite.

 

Yeah, for years I was like that. I paid for the potential that never got realized. I stopped doing that at some point. I looked at what was and then judged if that was worth my time. Currently, this game is not worth my time. I spend more time on this forum than in game lol. But hey, that's part of the sub, so at least I'm still using my sub

I do have hopes on various accounts, but it's tempered with a healthy dose of realism:

 

yeah ... that potential has slipped away into seeing what their intentions are. Aside from another "short story" (emphasis on the probability is that it IS SHORT) ... the rest seems to have faded away.

 

 

• Story - For me the story could still be cool if it surprises me with the direction, fits all classes and isn't different for rep and imp players (meaning the saboteur approach).

 

I really am looking forward to the story. I'm hoping it will include some depth and intrigue. This is my hope. As we mentioned earlier I will see what happens with the release of 7.0

 

• New Ops - the new Ops could be really cool in atmosphere and boss mechanics. I don't mean the harder the better but actually fun. The last two Ops were just not fun for me even though I played the Ops before it in all modes.

 

I don't mess with OPs that much .. but I am looking forward to see what new areas are available for Heroics and FP's ... (Not face roll stuff either) .. something I can sink my teeth into as a solo player and still have some old fashion fun !!

 

• Gearing system - they haven't said anything about this yet. So that raises my curiosity. However, it could be equally a disappointment or great.
  

 

I am looking forward to the next step in the gearing system ... hopefully it will simply continue what is currently in place. (Maybe with some tweaks for end game stuff that players need to fill that aspect of the game too !!).

 

I don't expect these things to happen in a way that I would enjoy, but I do hope it. I really want to keep playing SWTOR but right now there's just nothing here for me. No conquest or seasons or combat styles are going to cover up that content hole.

 

I would dearly love to see the game grow. There has to be a way ...

** Yes it takes putting more into the game : but the returns are greater for everyone ... both development team and customers alike !!

** Not just rehashing the same content we've been doing for some time now.

** Adding new stuff could have been a reality ... but that seems to have been swept away.

** Even some of the old things we enjoyed seems to have faded away ... let alone expanding on !!

 

For whatever it's worth to the team .. I know it takes a long time to add a significant amount of new content to the game. And introducing the CQ's as well as GS to help buy some time is understandable. And in the end if the game takes a solid turn for what many are hoping for it will be a good pay off.

 

Yet if what we have seen communicated thus far is a representation of an outline for bulk the future for SWTOR ... so much of what was has in deed been left out and more than likely never to return !! IMO ... that just does not make sense !! And I suppose in that context that is why I'm somewhat ambivalent to the future of the games direction at this juncture.

[Stradlin]

- Move forward till you get to the enemy

- Engage enemy

- Target Enemy 1

- Attack Enemy 1 (with simple rotation) till they're dead

- Target Enemy 2

- Attack Enemy 2 (with same rotation) till they're dead

- Target Enemy 3

- Attack Enemy 3 (with same rotation) till they're dead

- All enemies are dead

- Repeat

 

...just as it has been since launch.

 

You could use that chain to describe some of the most difficult video games out there.

 

Launch era TOR was mostly very easy as long as you kept your gear up to date. Very, very few things required a 2nd try from an average player. Even so, vanilla TOR did give you an opportunity to fail in a fight, if you did badly enough or made mistakes. Ever since KOTFE-buffed companions, dififculty has been on such a low level that it is an insult towards easy games to call TOR easy.

 

Like " a very easy Super Mario level" still features tons of opportunities for player to fail at every turn. TOR plays itself for you basically. Finding difficult content in this game is much harder than anything you encounter during your default experience(storylines) Succesfully getting past autneticator in log in is, as an experience, much more dificult and unforgivin than anything you encounter during storylines. When logging in, you must succesfully press all the right numbers within a very forgiving timeframe. When was the last time you had to do this much during combat in any of the class stories?

 

Precence of any kind of difficulty or challenge along " this game is easy - this game is hard" scale simply has not been part of game mechanics in SWTOR default experience in years. Doing class stories/story content does not teach you to play this game. While playing class storylines, you can't familiarize yourself with your abiltiies in a setting where it'd actually matter which buttons you press.

 

"I need a rotation for this fight. I need to use specific abilities if I am going to win this fight" < - - Typical player(doing class stoeries, kotfe, kotet) will not encounter anything like this until KOTFE master mode chapters..Which typial player will skip anyway! : D This is a huge issue which wages open warfare against some base level fundamentals of video games. Or heck, games in general. If games had been this void of challenge, I think humans would have gotten bored of games long before CommonEra.

 

 

It is bit of a joke really. For vast majority of active TOR players, all abilities are completely worthless and pointless. Removing half of them wouldn't matter in any meaningful way. My Sith war has all these cool survival cooldowns..what of it? As long as I do class story, KOTFE,KOTET, I don't need any at any situation. I'd have this nifty rotation that does good DPS. So what? When do I need good dps? And its not like I learn the rotation, since nothing lives long enough to see it through! Companion is the only relevant " ability" any spec, any class has. You can push rest of your buttons if you like and it makes things go bit faster ig.

 

Nobody who settles for core experience learns to play this game. Arvirtarily removing 25% of abilities doesn't change this.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Stradlin

[TrixxieTriss]

Honestly, it means nothing to me to replay the story “again” using a non-class combat style. The only thing the extra combat style will do for me is not having to switch from a single target DPS to a AOE, tank, stealth or healer class to clear PvE content.

 

It means nothing for pvp or group instanced pve content because you have to decide before entering or you have to leave to change. Which you can’t do in pvp without getting a deserter debuff.

 

I was excited for the announced changes till they recently said you won’t be able to change on the “fly”. And I was interested in the changes till they decided to redo all the builds for ability-utility-passives to prune the task bar and make us choose between things we already have as standard.

 

I think the whole thing is a complete and utter waste of resources to try and bring in a handful of brand new players who will leave within months of trying the game. In the mean time they will piss off a portion of the current player base and we’ll end up with less players next year than we already have.

 

It would have been better to listen to what the players have been suggesting and asking for years than reinventing the wheel because some dev has a pet desire to dumb down the game more for new players.

 

The resources could have been better spent on “more” than the planned new content. Proper content and class balance, a more desirable gearing system with less RNG, fix all the bugs and performance issues, add QOL improvements that players have been asking for and lastly, fixing the pvp eco system so it encourages good play and learning.

 

The amount of time, money and man power that will need to go into this combat style system with abilities pruned will be a significant part of the total costings for the expansion. Remember they need to rebalance every bit of pve content to accommodate these changes and we know they often get one bit of new content wrong, so how do they plan to do the whole game?

[Darth-Obvious]

You could use that chain to describe some of the most difficult video games out there.

 

None of them play like SWTOR, they're either turn-based, allow all of your attacks to hit multiple enemies, etc.

 

SWTOR's problem is that its combat doesn't really appeal to any large audience of people. It doesn't offer strategy/challenge nor does it offer the type of power fantasy people enjoy from other games, notably other Star Wars games.

 

There are plenty of people who love playing Dynasty Warriors or games that are power fantasies that allow you to just stomp enemies and while SWTOR is easy it's style, feel, and flow of combat doesn't give that feeling or type of engagement nor does it (generally) satisfy the typical/average MMO player either.

 

So, what you're left with is a system or style that ultimately satisfies no one.

 

SWTOR really needed to do its own thing with its combat from the outset instead of just copying what WoW did. Even Wildstar, a MMO that was made by ex-WoW devs did its own thing with combat. Same goes for other MMOs that were developed in the same time frame as SWTOR like GW2 and ESO.

[Stradlin]

 

SWTOR really needed to do its own thing with its combat from the outset instead of just copying what WoW did. Even Wildstar, a MMO that was made by ex-WoW devs did its own thing with combat. Same goes for other MMOs that were developed in the same time frame as SWTOR like GW2 and ESO.

 

Most people seem to prefer tried and true tab targeter combat over the annoying hybrid action you see in GW2 and ESO. Both are excellent games, but I often hear people say they are excellent despite their combat, not because of it. Nothing in TOR's combat style prevents challenging and/or relevant encounters. I had tons of fun with KOTFE Master mode for example. Just that they entirely gave up when it comes to concept of difficulty of any kind in core gameplay. Difficulty just isn't present there, as a game element.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Stradlin

[Ardrossan]

 

SWTOR really needed to do its own thing with its combat from the outset instead of just copying what WoW did. Even Wildstar, a MMO that was made by ex-WoW devs did its own thing with combat. Same goes for other MMOs that were developed in the same time frame as SWTOR like GW2 and ESO.

 

I mean, you could apply this to every aspect of the game, not just combat. Like Combat Styles, utilities...every time they do something, BW steals it and follows suit later on. Probably the only thing stopping them from copying what WoW does immediately is they don't have the resources to implement stuff right away [supposedly].

 

It would be great if they could do literally anything without stealing it from some other game. About the only thing unique to swtor, besides the ip, is the story and VA, which for the purpose of comparison we could say stops with RotHC.

[Damask_Rose]

The amount of time, money and man power that will need to go into this combat style system with abilities pruned will be a significant part of the total costings for the expansion. Remember they need to rebalance every bit of pve content to accommodate these changes and we know they often get one bit of new content wrong, so how do they plan to do the whole game?

 

This is what I keep thinking about. I have only mild interest in combat styles. I have only mild interest in loadouts, but I know a lot of people want them, so I'm ok with them. I have less than zero interest in ability pruning and the resulting balance issues that will result. We don't have any details on what else made it into the expansion, just some vague mention of things that are in every expansion or story patch. Bioware has given no details to get me interested in this expansion yet. What on the long list of things I really want didn't make it into the expansion in order to make room for this combat revamp? Did I lose out on a hood toggle? Did I lose out on a dye revamp? On a character creator revamp? On a weapon designer? On an hour or two of story? A new event and reputation? Stronghold love? We undoubtedly lost a lot, with very little gain.

[Darth-Obvious]

Most people seem to prefer tried and true tab targeter combat over the annoying hybrid action you see in GW2 and ESO.

 

I would not say that is the case outside of MMOs and see that's another one of SWTOR's problems. Many people who want to play the game or engage in the Star Wars experience of it all generally don't want to engage with the type of combat SWTOR offers.

 

The other issue is that if you enjoy tab targetting combat in an MMO there are other MMOs that do it way better which means SWTOR isn't appealing to the audience that wants a more "Star Warsy" game nor are they really appealing to the tab target MMO crowd.

 

Nothing in TOR's combat style prevents challenging and/or relevant encounters. I had tons of fun with KOTFE Master mode for example. Just that they entirely gave up when it comes to concept of difficulty of any kind in core gameplay. Difficulty just isn't present there, as a game element.

 

Challenge isn't necessarily what the majority of people coming to SWTOR are looking for, or MMOs in general. When Wildstar launched one of its biggest criticisms was that it was too challenging. There's nothing wrong with making a challenging game, there have been great successes with games like Dark Souls however those games aren't 100 million dollar budget MMOs that are trying to attract the widest possible audience.

 

Something like SWTOR can't have it every way. It can't be a Star Wars game, that's challenging, with a focus on story, and an MMO all while trying to attract the widest possible audience with the expectation that it would be as successful as WoW. All of those things aren't going to mix well and ultimately one or multiple of those elements is going to conflict with the others.

 

I mean, you could apply this to every aspect of the game, not just combat. Like Combat Styles, utilities...every time they do something, BW steals it and follows suit later on. Probably the only thing stopping them from copying what WoW does immediately is they don't have the resources to implement stuff right away [supposedly].

 

It would be great if they could do literally anything without stealing it from some other game. About the only thing unique to swtor, besides the ip, is the story and VA, which for the purpose of comparison we could say stops with RotHC.

 

True.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Darth-Obvious

[OlBuzzard]

Honestly, it means nothing to me to replay the story “again” using a non-class combat style. The only thing the extra combat style will do for me is not having to switch from a single target DPS to a AOE, tank, stealth or healer class to clear PvE content.

 

It means nothing for pvp or group instanced pve content because you have to decide before entering or you have to leave to change. Which you can’t do in pvp without getting a deserter debuff.

 

I was excited for the announced changes till they recently said you won’t be able to change on the “fly”. And I was interested in the changes till they decided to redo all the builds for ability-utility-passives to prune the task bar and make us choose between things we already have as standard.

 

I think the whole thing is a complete and utter waste of resources to try and bring in a handful of brand new players who will leave within months of trying the game. In the mean time they will piss off a portion of the current player base and we’ll end up with less players next year than we already have.

 

It would have been better to listen to what the players have been suggesting and asking for years than reinventing the wheel because some dev has a pet desire to dumb down the game more for new players.

 

The resources could have been better spent on “more” than the planned new content. Proper content and class balance, a more desirable gearing system with less RNG, fix all the bugs and performance issues, add QOL improvements that players have been asking for and lastly, fixing the pvp eco system so it encourages good play and learning.

 

The amount of time, money and man power that will need to go into this combat style system with abilities pruned will be a significant part of the total costings for the expansion. Remember they need to rebalance every bit of pve content to accommodate these changes and we know they often get one bit of new content wrong, so how do they plan to do the whole game?

 

I personally believe that this is where a LOT of folks are at right now !

 

The time and resource that will be spent by the time everything is "finalized" (** note) a considerable amount of other projects could have been done with far better results (assuming that enough time and effort were actually devoted to said projects to complete them without a bunch of BUGS ) .

 

This has to be one of the most disappointing announcements for a major release I've seen in a while now.

 

Frankly I haven't really played that much this week at all. Between helping my 92 year old dad who is just now coming out of COVID and other issues .. frankly there just hasn't been that much to look forward to in SWTOR !

 

I do hope that we see a change of heart on the behalf of the team.

 

Maybe they are planning on some really good stuff that will be a lot of fun. It would be nice to see a few of those ideas. NO ! I don't expect the entire expansion to be revealed. That wouldn't be fun either.

 

Good grief ... the team can be a pretty good group of folks when they want to be. And they're good at what they do (when they put their mind to it) ...

 

Anyways .. I guess that's enough out of the old man for right now !

 

(**NOTE): I define finalized as having the new "combat style" compatible and functional regardless of what aspect of the game we engage in. This also means said system is FREE OF BUGS !!

 

Edited

Edited August 27, 2021 by OlBuzzard

[Stradlin]

I would not say that is the case outside of MMOs and see that's another one of SWTOR's problems. Many people who want to play the game or engage in the Star Wars experience of it all generally don't want to engage with the type of combat SWTOR offers.

 

 

Challenge isn't necessarily what the majority of people coming to SWTOR are looking for, or MMOs in general. When Wildstar launched one of its biggest criticisms was that it was too challenging. There's nothing wrong with making a challenging game, there have been great successes with games like Dark Souls however those games aren't 100 million dollar budget MMOs that are trying to attract the widest possible audience.

.

 

More to it than zeroes and ones. Making core experience of TOR bit more interesting in this regard doesn't mean it'd have to be turned into Wildstar or Dark Souls. Making difficulty, even easy would count, somehow present as a game element again would suffice. It just isn't there at all at the moment. It belittles challenge present in easy video games to put TORs name among them.

 

So you have a situation where core gameplay experience for majority is extremely simple and asks nothing from the player..

...while at the same time offering everybody a reasobaly compliated kit of tools. Doing core gameplay(again, I mean classs stories through KOTET to Onslaught by this) neither requires nor teaches you to use any of these tools. Nothing requires you to " do remotely well" to succeed.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Stradlin

[Nortumberland]

Nothing rly. Edited August 27, 2021 by Nortumberland

[Darth-Obvious]

More to it than zeroes and ones. Making core experience of TOR bit more interesting in this regard doesn't mean it'd have to be turned into Wildstar or Dark Souls. Making difficulty, even easy would count, somehow present as a game element again would suffice. It just isn't there at all at the moment. It belittles challenge present in easy video games to put TORs name among them.

 

So you have a situation where core gameplay experience for majority is extremely simple and asks nothing from the player..

...while at the same time offering everybody a reasobaly compliated kit of tools. Doing core gameplay(again, I mean classs stories through KOTET to Onslaught by this) neither requires nor teaches you to use any of these tools. Nothing requires you to " do remotely well" to succeed.

 

Making the game more challenging or difficult doesn't get them millions of new subs. It just satisfies part of the audience that's already there.

 

SWTOR at the end of the day just isn't the type of Star Wars game that many Star Wars fans want to play, nor is it the type of MMO that many MMO fans want to play. It's not good or strong enough in either one of those directions.

 

It really doesn't matter if the game asks nothing of them combat-wise because as I explained earlier there are plenty of gamers who aren't necessarily looking for that, who enjoy a power fantasy, and so on.

 

Chances are there's always going to be a bigger audience of people that want something that's simpler, more casual, etc, which is why Bioware continues targeting that audience with all the updates/changes they've made to make the game easier or streamline it.

[Tsillah]

Making the game more challenging or difficult doesn't get them millions of new subs. It just satisfies part of the audience that's already there.

That's too easy and very black and white. It wouldn't just appeal to a group of resident players. The players that left because this game had become too easy would be interested in that and new players that are looking for a more challenging MMO because, for example, they feel like WoW has become too easy also would be interested in that.

 

Will that attract millions on the other hand? No, that part I agree with.

[mike_carton]

Honestly, it means nothing to me to replay the story “again” using a non-class combat style. The only thing the extra combat style will do for me is not having to switch from a single target DPS to a AOE, tank, stealth or healer class to clear PvE content.

 

It means nothing for pvp or group instanced pve content because you have to decide before entering or you have to leave to change. Which you can’t do in pvp without getting a deserter debuff.

 

I was excited for the announced changes till they recently said you won’t be able to change on the “fly”. And I was interested in the changes till they decided to redo all the builds for ability-utility-passives to prune the task bar and make us choose between things we already have as standard.

 

I think the whole thing is a complete and utter waste of resources to try and bring in a handful of brand new players who will leave within months of trying the game. In the mean time they will piss off a portion of the current player base and we’ll end up with less players next year than we already have.

 

It would have been better to listen to what the players have been suggesting and asking for years than reinventing the wheel because some dev has a pet desire to dumb down the game more for new players.

 

The resources could have been better spent on “more” than the planned new content. Proper content and class balance, a more desirable gearing system with less RNG, fix all the bugs and performance issues, add QOL improvements that players have been asking for and lastly, fixing the pvp eco system so it encourages good play and learning.

 

The amount of time, money and man power that will need to go into this combat style system with abilities pruned will be a significant part of the total costings for the expansion. Remember they need to rebalance every bit of pve content to accommodate these changes and we know they often get one bit of new content wrong, so how do they plan to do the whole game?

 

(Emphasis added)

 

What am I going to do with a comment like this?!

Other than to say QFT.

[Darth-Obvious]

That's too easy and very black and white. It wouldn't just appeal to a group of resident players. The players that left because this game had become too easy would be interested in that and new players that are looking for a more challenging MMO because, for example, they feel like WoW has become too easy also would be interested in that.

 

Will that attract millions on the other hand? No, that part I agree with.

 

True, what I should have said is that it wouldn't have seen any real or significant growth as a result. If you appeal to the crowd craving challenge you might get some new players and lapsed players returning but you'd also lose players and make the game a turn off to more casual players so there wouldn't be any real advantage because the numbers would probably be back at around the same place regardless if it's made easier or more difficult.

[Tsillah]

True, what I should have said is that it wouldn't have seen any real or significant growth as a result. If you appeal to the crowd craving challenge you might get some new players and lapsed players returning but you'd also lose players and make the game a turn off to more casual players so there wouldn't be any real advantage because the numbers would probably be back at around the same place regardless if it's made easier or more difficult.

I think that what's been happening the last 5 years or so is that MMOs have gone from a focus on challenging content to a focus on casual content, because the stable part of the player base has shifted as well.

 

The old crowd that grew up with MMOs is losing out to the new crowd and you see it in every MMO but I don't think that it's a trend that you can stop no matter how much you want to. People just wanna hang in a virtual world and those people are casual players. There is of course a part of the population that wants challenging content and that's why they still create ops.

 

I will look at that new ops though because I wonder how successful the last two have really been and we might see a change in approach to it.

 

I'm sure I've fought for harder content over the years, but I think I have to acknowledge that those days are over. Even if an MMO has more challenging content it won't be a focus anymore. So you either get with the times or you leave. So this change is much in line with that...however, it doesn't make the need for new content any less and that's what I'm missing in 7.0 again and when we do get new content it's very one-sided. FPs seem to be the main focus for that...but there are so many already. I really wish they would bring out new locations that are in the persistent world and make them bigger than Onderon and Mek-sha for example and make them so there is more to do than some weird-*** dailies and a story line that you can play through in 5 mins (an exaggeration but you know what I mean).