Jedi Guardian Feedback

[Galbsadi]

Please, for the love of SWTOR, listen to the player base and ditch these changes. They won't go well.

 

These changes do not increase player choice or customization, nor does it encourage the use of a broader range of abilities. Currently, I can use blade blitz to cheese things like doom, or to give myself invulnerability for a second, or to quickly reposition, or just for extra DR. If I plan on using it a lot, I can spend a utility point to reduce cooldown and use it to purge movement impairing effects. Or, I can just choose to do none of those things and take blitz off of my bar. With this new system, I will have to sacrifice Reflect and Enure if I want blitz, and I MUST take the utility that comes with blitz because it's rolled into the ability. In fact, rather than being able to choose between 8 different options at 3 different tiers of utilities, now we have a series of forced choices with fewer options at each choice. All of these changes give the player LESS choice and LESS customization. This. Is. Idiotic.

 

These changes lower the skill ceiling in the game tremendously, which is going to adversely affect the player experience. Currently, I can use saber throw on a distant add that no one has any significant threat on to keep that add focused on me for a few seconds while I fight something else, then jump to that add or taunt it to keep it focused on me once the saber throw threat starts to fail. Now I won't be able to do that, I'll have even less options for controlling the battlefield if I play guardian tank. If I play PvP I had better have my leap cooled down because otherwise I won't be able to blitz to a capping player, use freezing force speed boost to get to them faster, or saber throw them to interrupt a cap. Again, I have less choices at my disposal. Currently, the game rewards me with reflect damage/avoided damage when I use reflect at the right time, invulnerability to hard-hitting attacks when I blitz at the right time, and staying alive when I use Enure at the right time. I had to learn how to do these things properly and it has been very rewarding, and doing these things properly is a lot of fun. These changes strip all of that away and the devs claim this increases my choice? In what universe does reducing the options I have at my disposal and restricting my ability to customize them result in greater choice, greater customization, and an all-around better experience? If you think your class has way too many useless abilities then you are not playing your class to its fullest. If it bothers you, switch to a class with fewer abilities, or just take the ones you don't use off of your bar. This. Is. Idiotic.

 

The game, especially Dxun, is still buggy as hell, and now there's going to be a completely unnecessary forced gear reset with the introduction of new tiers of gear and probably new set bonuses... I hate to say it but it sounds like 7.0 will be a disaster. What is even the point of increasing the level cap to 80 just to end up weaker and with fewer abilities than what we had at 75? I cannot fathom these decisions. We need (1) more/better content, (2) bug fixes/quality of life improvements, (3) maybe some new set bonuses or customization options like new races, cosmetics, combat styles, etc. Instead we're getting (1) a (probably) rushed & buggy op, (2) major balance changes for PvP and PvE that were unnecessary to begin with and likely have very limited testing (no way they balance ops in time for release), and (3) mindless busy work in the form of grinding up new gear. #3 is absolutely the most unimaginative way to keep people playing a game. I love SWTOR and I love the devs but their priorities and logic are wildly out of touch with reality. I can't wait to be constantly changing loadouts before every fight because I can only have 1 DCD at a time, that's really going to improve the player experience... Rather than a convenient system that encourages/facilitates players trying out new specs/respeccing, loadouts is going to be a terrible and constant necessity just due to how stripped down things have become. This. Is. Idiotic.

 

Why in the world did the devs think that rushing PTS to the point where core skills like stun break and interrupt weren't available initially? What did they think players were going to say? Obviously they'd focus on that heavily. Did they think players would be able to provide any meaningful feedback on how their guardian lite idea felt with so many unrelated gaps in their bars? If they're this rushed with PTS, God only knows how rushed 7.0 is.

 

Combining abilities isn't going to cut it. Opting into an aoe + slow on blade storm is NOT comparable to freezing force. The aoe on blade storm (PTS) is hot garbage, it has no range and no width to it. You're lucky to hit anything with it besides the primary target. Furthermore, linking a slow to a key rotational ability like blade blitz means that, unless I can maintain near 100% uptime on the debuff, it's not the same as freezing force because I can no longer slow exactly when I need to without having to hold off use of such an important ability for the right moment. ALSO, if I want to, I can spec into the utility to use freezing force as a speed boost in fights that require lots of movement; if I don't need the speed boost then I don't take that utility. Guess I won't be able to do that now either. This reduces players' options & control over their classes.

 

WHY??? Who was asking for these changes? Seriously. This feels like change for the sake of making changes and busy work for the sake of having something to do. These changes run completely counter to the devs' stated intentions.

 

Again, for the love of SWTOR, listen to the player base and ditch these changes. They won't go well. You've already got a really good thing going, there's no reason to waste precious resources on mucking it all up when you could be working on content, bug fixes, and quality of life improvements instead. My guardian on PTS feels like a fat, slow, still-leveling toon. God help me if an add is 8 meters away--I can't blade blitz or freezing force to him, I can't saber throw while I close the gap, and he's too close to leap to. I just have to slowly trod along until I close the gap like a useless idiot. That's pretty much the exact opposite of what Jedi should feel like. I'm going to play all the SWTOR I can now because there won't be anything worth sticking around for if this is what 7.0 is going to be.

 

Finally, while we're all telling you what a disaster this has been, please change the PTS so we can just buy the 306 mods/enhancements/armorings etc. we want rather than having to grind at the vendor for them. Honestly, how hard could that be? And the mount speed.... what the hell?

 

This. All of this.

[phalczen]

So, I decided to do a little re-testing of Guardian to see if anything was new. My old guardian had been deleted, I presume when Sentinels became testable. Again, I wasted about 45 minutes just getting my character's gear up to item rating 306. You should just put individual item modifications up for sale to speed this up, especially if you are going to keep wiping toons. Tanking mods are still not available, other than earpiece/implant/relics and shield off hand (which has dps mods).

Here is my original feedback on Defense A for reference.

Again, I tested Defense A path and Lord of Pain set and Leviathan's Hide tactical, also a Supplied Kyrprax Fortitude Stim. I recommend everyone use the Chapter window to grant themselves KOTFE Ch. 1 "The Hunt" to get your personal starship and use your ship to travel to Odessen. Click on the terminal to get 10 million credits per click, and buy the legendary comp gifts as needed. You don't actually need to start the chapter. I used this window right after getting C2-N2 and my speeder from the mission terminal on Onderon.

Some notable changes:

1. Blade Storm's new modification in the Defense A loadout, "Blade Burst," appears to have its abnormally long range fixed (the range of the effect matches the activation range of 10m), but its cone is still too narrow. I think this needs to have a wider area of effect if this is meant to replace the missing Freezing Force. The slow is actually applied now, which helps since the stun only works on standard and weak enemies. If we're not going to get saber throw back, you should extend the range of this.
   
2. I actually like the new font for all system messages.
   
3. It looks like all the new passives from the paths are now listed in the Ability window. For Defense A, this includes Critical Defense, Critical Slash, and Antagonizing Assault. Previously the only place to see these were the descriptions in JackieKo's post. See below under bugs for more information.
   
4. Resolute (our stun break) and Force Kick (our interrupt) are back.
   
5. Dispatch is back for defense guardians. Reviewing my Defense A feedback it certainly wasn't there the first time, but I know its replacement Whirling Blade for Vigilance was there the first test cycle.
   

And some persistent bugs:

1. I realize that you think Speeder Piloting 3 is granted (https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9964102#edit9964102), but I can tell you the speeder is not actually moving at 110% of ground speed, neither the Boosted Classic that is granted with the terminal nor the Kurtob Alliance that is supposed to be at least 110% regardless of speeder piloting level.
   
2. I didn't bother to test if C2-N2 is effective at influence rank 11. I just went to Odessen to buy some legendary gold Cultural Artifact gifts to get him up to rank 20. I also claimed my Nico Okarr and did the same to get him up to rank 20. He's doing a little better now in the wilds of Odessen than he did the first time around. Can you just put Commander's Compendia on the vendors?
   
3. I clearly still get stacks of the Courage proc and still get the focus cost reduction on Blade Storm/Dispatch, but Courage is still missing from the Abilities list.
   
4. Defiance and Narrowed Focus used to be utilities that are now supposedly part of the path or loadout. I certainly cannot see them anywhere in the Ability window. I do appear to be generating focus when I am knocked back or receive AoE damage from mobs, so these ex-utilities-now-passives appear to still be working.
   

Additional feedback:

• My original feedback on the new Defense A path Critical Defense and Critical Slash passives still stands: it makes no sense to force a tank to stack critical chance just to make these passives worthwhile. To obtain any meaningful reduction in cooldown to Combat Focus or Guardian Slash you would have to stack a significant amount of critical rating. In any event, I think Critical Slash is working to reduce the cooldown on Guardian Slash, and Critical Defense does appear to reduce Combat Focus' cooldown. In the case of Critical Slash, this turns the cooldown from 12 seconds to 11 seconds. Tying it only to Guardian Slash makes no sense because you will have at most a one second benefit. I have about 35% critical chance, and that's only because the vendors only give dps mods and I spent some time trying to optimize.
  
• What is this new thing in the ability window?
  

  Threatening Focus (TODO)
  Rank 66
  Passive
  Activating Combat Focus generates focus, reduces the cooldown of all your taunts by 5 seconds and damages all taunted targets around you.

  Yeah, it really says TODO there ... Well, if it is an item on some To Do list, it appears to be working to damage the targets, but it doesn't reduce the cooldown of Challenging Call, only my single target taunt, at least if I activate Challenging Call, then Combat Focus.
  
• So, what exactly are you trying to do here? You asked us if this felt like a Guardian to us. Maybe the better question is, what do YOU think a guardian is? Because all these new passives are all based on dealing damage. Are you intentionally trying to reduce the relevance of tanking mods even further? You are reducing the number of DCD and mobility skills, and tying tanking to things like critical chance. I'm not suggesting a guardian should hit like a wet noodle, but I certainly don't think I should be expected to stack critical rating to make my TANK more effective.
  

I reserve the right to edit this post to add additional feedback.

Edited August 16, 2021 by phalczen

[Chew_Jacka]

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

No, the abilities are restricted.

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

Yes, the abilities are restricted.

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

Bad, the lack of abilities is not good.

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

Not enjoying, the abilities are too restricted on the PTS. Leave it how it is on live.

 

Please just scrap the idea of reworking the classes, I'm just a casual player not a hardcore mmo player, this is my first and only mmo I've ever played and restricting the abilities will not help new/casual players like myself, but only make it more confusing.

[AdjeYo]

Let me start by saying I'm happy that Bioware is listening to feedback and changing some things. The return of Saber Throw as a baseline ability is great. However I have a few questions and remarks about the current state of Guardians on PTS.

 

First of all is Threatening Focus on the Defense tree. Dealing damage to all taunted targets is a fun idea and reducing the cooldown of taunts is useful, however I dearly miss the movement speed increase that Focus Guardians do still have on PTS. Especially with the removal of Freezing Force (and its movement speed increase utility), Mad Dash being optional and the removal of increased movement speed on Focused Defense, Guardians can really use this little burst of movement speed.

I see that the movement impairing effect purge is still there in the tree. Please add back the movement speed to this, or make it baseline. If need be get rid of the taunt cooldown decrease and damage, it's not that important. (Also the cooldown reduction seems to only work with single target taunt right now).

 

Secondly are two somewhat important passives to Defense Guardians: Blade Barricade and Blade Barrier. These inccrease defense chance after Riposte and give an absorb shield after Blade Storm respectively. These passives still work on the PTS, I'm getting the buffs. However, they don't show up in the Ability Tree or Ability List. Are these planned to stay in the game? Because if not, I really urge you to keep them, they're very important little details for Defense Guardians.

 

Lastly about the options for Defense Guardians on level 15, specifically Marked Assault and Antagonizing Assault. One of them increases the damage of Warding Strike by 20% versus taunted targets (right now IN DEV, works on even non taunted targets). The other however, increases the damage, crit chance and threat generation of Warding Strike by 20%. Why would I ever pick the former if the latter does the same damage increase, but to all targets, AND increases the crit chance and threat generation. Marked Assault seems completely outclassed in all regards. I realise this passive is still very much in development, I just wanted to point out how mediocre it seems compared to its alternatives.

 

Edit: It also still feels very painful to choose between Blade Blitz and Saber Reflect. Like some bosses will have to have some serious rebalancing painful. I'd rather have Saber Reflect as a baseline ability and Enure as an option. So you pick between the cleanse from Enure or the resist from Blade Blitz. If really needed make it just for tanks and an option for DPS (swap it with Enure basically), but preferably make it baseline for all Guardians.

Edited August 26, 2021 by AdjeYo

[MrRuck]

If you want to keep the feeling of classes, it's imperative that mobility abilities stay baseline. Losing Blade Blitz & Guardian Leap is like having a hammer taken to both my kneecaps -- which will incidently be my headcannon when it comes to roleplay.

 

Much better if you just ditch all these changes though.

Edited August 27, 2021 by MrRuck

[euroDSMtuner]

Please, for the love of SWTOR, listen to the player base and ditch these changes. They won't go well.

 

These changes do not increase player choice or customization, nor does it encourage the use of a broader range of abilities. Currently, I can use blade blitz to cheese things like doom, or to give myself invulnerability for a second, or to quickly reposition, or just for extra DR. If I plan on using it a lot, I can spend a utility point to reduce cooldown and use it to purge movement impairing effects. Or, I can just choose to do none of those things and take blitz off of my bar. With this new system, I will have to sacrifice Reflect and Enure if I want blitz, and I MUST take the utility that comes with blitz because it's rolled into the ability. In fact, rather than being able to choose between 8 different options at 3 different tiers of utilities, now we have a series of forced choices with fewer options at each choice. All of these changes give the player LESS choice and LESS customization. This. Is. Idiotic.

 

These changes lower the skill ceiling in the game tremendously, which is going to adversely affect the player experience. Currently, I can use saber throw on a distant add that no one has any significant threat on to keep that add focused on me for a few seconds while I fight something else, then jump to that add or taunt it to keep it focused on me once the saber throw threat starts to fail. Now I won't be able to do that, I'll have even less options for controlling the battlefield if I play guardian tank. If I play PvP I had better have my leap cooled down because otherwise I won't be able to blitz to a capping player, use freezing force speed boost to get to them faster, or saber throw them to interrupt a cap. Again, I have less choices at my disposal. Currently, the game rewards me with reflect damage/avoided damage when I use reflect at the right time, invulnerability to hard-hitting attacks when I blitz at the right time, and staying alive when I use Enure at the right time. I had to learn how to do these things properly and it has been very rewarding, and doing these things properly is a lot of fun. These changes strip all of that away and the devs claim this increases my choice? In what universe does reducing the options I have at my disposal and restricting my ability to customize them result in greater choice, greater customization, and an all-around better experience? If you think your class has way too many useless abilities then you are not playing your class to its fullest. If it bothers you, switch to a class with fewer abilities, or just take the ones you don't use off of your bar. This. Is. Idiotic.

 

The game, especially Dxun, is still buggy as hell, and now there's going to be a completely unnecessary forced gear reset with the introduction of new tiers of gear and probably new set bonuses... I hate to say it but it sounds like 7.0 will be a disaster. What is even the point of increasing the level cap to 80 just to end up weaker and with fewer abilities than what we had at 75? I cannot fathom these decisions. We need (1) more/better content, (2) bug fixes/quality of life improvements, (3) maybe some new set bonuses or customization options like new races, cosmetics, combat styles, etc. Instead we're getting (1) a (probably) rushed & buggy op, (2) major balance changes for PvP and PvE that were unnecessary to begin with and likely have very limited testing (no way they balance ops in time for release), and (3) mindless busy work in the form of grinding up new gear. #3 is absolutely the most unimaginative way to keep people playing a game. I love SWTOR and I love the devs but their priorities and logic are wildly out of touch with reality. I can't wait to be constantly changing loadouts before every fight because I can only have 1 DCD at a time, that's really going to improve the player experience... Rather than a convenient system that encourages/facilitates players trying out new specs/respeccing, loadouts is going to be a terrible and constant necessity just due to how stripped down things have become. This. Is. Idiotic.

 

Why in the world did the devs think that rushing PTS to the point where core skills like stun break and interrupt weren't available initially? What did they think players were going to say? Obviously they'd focus on that heavily. Did they think players would be able to provide any meaningful feedback on how their guardian lite idea felt with so many unrelated gaps in their bars? If they're this rushed with PTS, God only knows how rushed 7.0 is.

 

Combining abilities isn't going to cut it. Opting into an aoe + slow on blade storm is NOT comparable to freezing force. The aoe on blade storm (PTS) is hot garbage, it has no range and no width to it. You're lucky to hit anything with it besides the primary target. Furthermore, linking a slow to a key rotational ability like blade blitz means that, unless I can maintain near 100% uptime on the debuff, it's not the same as freezing force because I can no longer slow exactly when I need to without having to hold off use of such an important ability for the right moment. ALSO, if I want to, I can spec into the utility to use freezing force as a speed boost in fights that require lots of movement; if I don't need the speed boost then I don't take that utility. Guess I won't be able to do that now either. This reduces players' options & control over their classes.

 

WHY??? Who was asking for these changes? Seriously. This feels like change for the sake of making changes and busy work for the sake of having something to do. These changes run completely counter to the devs' stated intentions.

 

Again, for the love of SWTOR, listen to the player base and ditch these changes. They won't go well. You've already got a really good thing going, there's no reason to waste precious resources on mucking it all up when you could be working on content, bug fixes, and quality of life improvements instead. My guardian on PTS feels like a fat, slow, still-leveling toon. God help me if an add is 8 meters away--I can't blade blitz or freezing force to him, I can't saber throw while I close the gap, and he's too close to leap to. I just have to slowly trod along until I close the gap like a useless idiot. That's pretty much the exact opposite of what Jedi should feel like. I'm going to play all the SWTOR I can now because there won't be anything worth sticking around for if this is what 7.0 is going to be.

 

Finally, while we're all telling you what a disaster this has been, please change the PTS so we can just buy the 306 mods/enhancements/armorings etc. we want rather than having to grind at the vendor for them. Honestly, how hard could that be? And the mount speed.... what the hell?

 

This. All of this.

 

Being able to buy 306's in the PTS is a brilliant idea as well. Not sure why this hasn't already been implemented. They should also add a complementary level 75 boost token in the mail for when you start off as well, seeing as character copy isn't an option ATM.

[bryanskrantz]

This. All of this.

 

Being able to buy 306's in the PTS is a brilliant idea as well. Not sure why this hasn't already been implemented. They should also add a complementary level 75 boost token in the mail for when you start off as well, seeing as character copy isn't an option ATM.

 

this. Why are 306's not implemented? And the level 75/80 boost would be great. if you really want us to test this as fast as possible that would help tremendously.

[LordCamTheGreat]

You boost up to level 75 when you talk to the droid next to the first speeder on tython or outside the cantina on hutta, teleport to the fleet and talk to the combat droid in the class's respective combat section.

 

You can also get 306 gear by buying new gear and level up iRating the same way you do on live, buy items for whatever is currently lowest.

[Llacertus]

I looked at the tank changes for guardian, and if these go through, guardians will continue to be the meta tank for pvp. The increased 50% damage on taunted targets will make the burst on crushing blow even more insane than it already is in pvp. I'm already getting 55k crits with only 6.7k power. I'd bet it would be possible to get 100k crits with that in the current meta. The critical slashes ability does not seem to be working currently. The cooldown reduction and critical chance after a critical hit with guardian slash has huge potential behind it, but it would be difficult to test. It would be useful to have 8 dummies standing within cleave range of guardian slash through which I could test the critical hits and cooldown DR on. This would make guardian slash become similar to vengeful slam spam with cut to pieces except you don't even need a tactical for it. For for any guardian tank main that pvps, that utility would be a wet dream. The shield that nearby allies receive after guardian slash seems viable, but its difficult to get an accurate reading of how strong the shield is. When I tested it, it looked like a 22-23k shield per ally. With the amount of burst some of these classes will be doing, I would boost that shield to a 50k-60k.

 

I'm actually fine with the aoe slow on force scream replacing chilling scream. The slow on blade blitz means even greater uptime without sacrifice dps output to maintain a cleave.

 

The changes for guardian tanks are definitely exciting from a pvp persepective, but I would caution against buffing guardians too strongly. They are already the most meta tank for pvp due to their strong survivability and dps output. Assassin tanks and powertech tanks would need substantial buffs to come close to measuring up to guardian tanks. Assassin tanks especially need extra love. Running a sin tank in a ranked match is essentially a throw with the current meta.

 

Personally, I'm super excited to play guardian tank in the next expansion.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Llacertus

[Wagerbane]

JackieKo,

 

There is a force kick under tank Jedi Guardian needs work like the force kick tank Jedi Shadow. Keep trying the force kick under tank Jedi Guardian not working for long time. I use to see Jedi Guardian holding a light saber at the side to attack a target from behind that is missing without use tanking feature.

[Ugolino]

Saber Reflect being restricted as part of the "choose which core ability Guardian can still have access to at level 70" is a significant mistake- it's a core ability to the class and one necessary for both viability and enjoyment. Gating it off means the class no longer feels like Guardian in the slightest, breaks the flow of gameplay in all modes, and removes counterplay options.

 

I also have severe concerns about Guardian DPS's future in PVP relative to other classes, especially as Operative hasn't undergone the same level of pruning despite being far more of a problem class for much of the duration of the game and DPS Guardians were already struggling heavily with survivability outside of a very specific niche. Comparing the level 70 ability restrictions of Guardians and Operatives is night and day.

 

This feels less like rebalancing and more like the class being made unappealing and a bad selection, in a way that other classes are not being subjected to. As a disappointed, soon to be ex-Guardian player who's stuck with the class since pre-Makeb, I do not think I will be playing Guardian in 7.0 at all if these changes go live and would like to ask that you rethink the balancing philosophy re: Guardian DPS's playstyle and role because I feel like it's struggled to find a place in PVP for a very long time.

 

If defensive cooldowns are being pruned, I feel that making saber reflect a "default DCD with a shorter cooldown" would be an ideal way to maintain the feel and effectiveness of the class while reducing bloat. Saber Reflect is trivial to work around for enemy players who know even the basics of how the ability functions (if you're seeing reflect, change tactics for a few seconds instead of just hitting yourself), but is both thematic and core to the Guardian. If converted to a short cooldown DCD, it would also encourage more intelligent gameplay than having ranked PVP degenerate into "dogpile the DPS Juggernaut without thinking"- which is what 7.0 may end up being, again.

 

Sidelining Saber Reflect is neither thematic, fitting for the Guardian playstyle or enjoyment, nor really fair to the class's remaining players. If these changes go live, as a long-time Guardian main, I'd strongly encourage people to avoid the class like the plague, and will be taking my own advice. To put it simply: this will kill the class.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Ugolino

[AdjeYo]

In addition to some of my previous comments, it feels really awkward to play without Cyclone Slash. After using Guardian Slash and Force Sweep, or just Force Sweep on Focus, that's my AoE's done and I have to wait for about 10 seconds until my next AoE comes up. Why not make Cyclone Slash baseline and add the old Trailblazer utility as on option in its place. That way we'll still have this pick to increase AoE damage, but if we end up not taking it, there's at least an AoE filler left.

[AdjeYo]

JackieKo,

 

There is a force kick under tank Jedi Guardian needs work like the force kick tank Jedi Shadow. Keep trying the force kick under tank Jedi Guardian not working for long time. I use to see Jedi Guardian holding a light saber at the side to attack a target from behind that is missing without use tanking feature.

 

Force Kick (Knight ability) is different from Spinning Kick (Shadow ability). Force Kick is not meant to be a stun, just an interrupt. It's working as intended.

[AdjeYo]

Here's what I'd like to see changed for Guardians on PTS:

 

Make Cyclone Slash baseline again and replace it in the tree with the Trailblazer utility, buffing its damage.

 

Make Guardian Leap baseline for all specs and replace it in the tree with a utility buffing Guardian Leap. With all the nerfs to mobility (Blade Blitz optional, no more Freezing Force and Combat Focus movement speed restricted to Focus only) we desperately need some mobility. Guardian Leap is a great way for us to have some, with also some nice Guardian flavour.

 

Make Saber Reflect baseline for all Guardians. The option near the end for Guardians will become: Enure, Awe, Blade Blitz. (This does mean Defense Guardians lose baseline Enure, but they gain Reflect, which is more integral to the Guardian identity imo).

 

This way, we also don't have to choose between passives and actives, preventing gaps on the quickbars. Additionally we have a little more mobility and don't have to give up passives to have access to an AoE spammable.

 

Lastly with Saber Reflect baseline, the choice between Enure, Awe and Blade Blitz becomes a little more bearable. Enure if you need cleanse, Blade Blitz for mobility or avoiding damage and Awe when you want that extra CC.

Edited September 5, 2021 by AdjeYo

[LordCamTheGreat]

I think what we need the devs to comment on is if there's a specific number of abilities they're targeting for each class, or whether they have a set quota of abilities that all classes must lose regardless of how many they current have.

 

This is important as some classes like the commando/ mercenary have practically three full hotbars of abilities, while something like an assassin/ shadow has about two and half.

 

With this in mind it would be extremely unfair to prune 7 commando abilities (for e.g.) and also 7 abilities from an assassin or guardian etc. Classes are not symmetrical yet they appear to be getting treated as such. Now, if the combat styles that currently have less abilities than some of the others are actually going to gain new and interesting abilities - I wouldn't mind them losing more of their current ones that aren't used much. But, we just don't know yet.

 

I really don't understand why the devs feel that they absolutely have to have a set amount of abilities in the ability tree. I made the argument for why engineer should have orbital bombardment baseline as it is rotational for them. Orbital bombardment was subsequently added back baseline, but then takedown - another rotational ability - got put into the ability tree to take it's place so we're right back at square one. Same thing with the jedi guardian for some reason needing to either have saber throw or cyclone slash in the ability tree when both are used by every spec in some form or another to build focus and deal aoe damage.

 

Furthering the point about guardian leap - this either needs to be baseline, or guardians need 2 force charge charges and force charge is altered to allow the player to target allies or enemies with it (essentially baking in old guardian leap into force charge). This would allow the devs to remove an ability, but allow players to still play the way they're used to while also occasionally double leaping to make up for the lack of blade blitz. Without blade blitz and guardian leap, the guardian will struggle even more than they currently are in PvP, and they are struggling.

[VasKur]

Finally yesterday i've got my hands on PTS with my main character - Jedi Guardian.

Quick intro. I've been with SWTOR since launch. Had a long break from 2018 till this summer. Spent my time mostly PvPing as guardian tank, rarely as DD. So i'll give my POV for Defence.

 

Does this fell like a Jedi Guardian ?

Seems like it bugged right now and some abilities are still there despite you need to choose some of them in reworked "skill tree". I'm talking about Awe, Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz. No Freezing force and Force Clarity (i'm totally support this changes). So as of right now it feels a bit like Guardian from 7-8 years ago which i kinda like... but no Guardian leap by default ?

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotaion ?

Back to Guardian leap. I think this one must be auto include for Defence even though choise in a tree is a no brainer IMO. Cyclone Slash (chooseable abilitiy too on PTS right now) is great against 2+ enemies for trauma effect in pvp and i'm using it often. Maybe can leave without it but still not sure atm. Obviously the hardest choise will be Awe or Saber Reflect or Blade Blitz.

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies ?

Usual PvE like dailies is the same as before. Hard to tell about PvP and OPs without other people on PTS and proper testing.

 

How are you enjoying or not this class ?

Let's be honest it Needs to compare with changes to all other classes when it'll be available to see the whole picture. Feels OK to me as of right now.

 

Overall Defence is looking somewhat fine. I really don't know why people are hating some changes. I mean guardian didn't have Saber reflect in 2011 till mid 2013 and Blade Blitz till 2015, right ? Was it a problem ? IMO Totally NO. Now you have to make a choise what is fit for you based on situation or type of content. I bet that other classes will have to make same choises so in theory no one will get huge benefits.

 

P.S. People always said that PvP in this game is a stun fest. I can agree at some point. For me the most annoing things though are slows/roots. Classes have lots of abilities with such effects right now and sometimes without good purpose. Have always look at what utilities can purge/save you from this BS now, kinda forgetting about your effectiveness. I'm totally fine with soft/hard stuns. It was/is great tactical thing that you have to master to creat opportunities for you or your teammates. You told that you want to reduce the amout of DCDs, right ? Without getting rid of at least 1/3 (or even 50%) of current slow effects from this game reducing the amount of DCDs will not give any positive results, only unenjoible experience. Please think about it.

[LordCamTheGreat]

 

Does this fell like a Jedi Guardian ?

Seems like it bugged right now and some abilities are still there despite you need to choose some of them in reworked "skill tree". I'm talking about Awe, Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz.

 

I think the devs are aware of this bug, but the way you fix it is by selecting the skill you shouldn't have in the ability tree, then selecting another ability on the same level as it. This causes the ability that you shouldn't have to be removed. I found that the best practice when switching between specs was to select all of the passives and then switch them to what I wanted to test just to make sure I didn't have anything I wasn't supposed to.

[AdjeYo]

Overall Defence is looking somewhat fine. I really don't know why people are hating some changes. I mean guardian didn't have Saber reflect in 2011 till mid 2013 and Blade Blitz till 2015, right ? Was it a problem ? IMO Totally NO. Now you have to make a choise what is fit for you based on situation or type of content. I bet that other classes will have to make same choises so in theory no one will get huge benefits.

 

Of course Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz have been added in with later updates, yet since then a lot of new content has been released. Saber Reflect especially has been in the game before most of the operations have been released (I'm pretty sure only EV, EC and TFB were released before Saber Reflect was a thing, and TFB's nightmare mode came after). You're more or less forced to pick Saber Reflect in many fights. Meaning Blade Blitz and Awe are just gone.

 

I think it'd be better if Enure and Saber Reflect switched places. Given how vital Saber Reflect is in many fights. Then I could see myself more often have to actually switch between Blade Blitz and Enure on a fight by fight basis, depending on whether I need a cleanse or damage avoidance.

[Ugolino]

Of course Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz have been added in with later updates, yet since then a lot of new content has been released. Saber Reflect especially has been in the game before most of the operations have been released (I'm pretty sure only EV, EC and TFB were released before Saber Reflect was a thing, and TFB's nightmare mode came after). You're more or less forced to pick Saber Reflect in many fights. Meaning Blade Blitz and Awe are just gone.

 

I think it'd be better if Enure and Saber Reflect switched places. Given how vital Saber Reflect is in many fights. Then I could see myself more often have to actually switch between Blade Blitz and Enure on a fight by fight basis, depending on whether I need a cleanse or damage avoidance.

Saber Reflect is basically core to the class's identity at this point, honestly- removing it is like removing cover from snipers.

[neocoma]

little off topic maybe but ...does the pruning mean they pick abilities everyone has right now, put it in a talent tree row and let you choose one of three like in wow?

this is the dumbest thing ever ...

[kaymedic]

Enure as a standard ability for tanks is a step into the right direction. But we also need Awe saber reflect and blade blitz. All of them are good defensive abilities we learned over the last 10 years. Why take them away.

 

The new Ability tree is something i really like where we can specialize but certain skills should not be optional.

 

guardian leap or blade blitz. Maybe that would be a good choice but I do not understand why you have the need to take skills away?

[AdjeYo]

Looking at the changes to other classes, and specifically Sin tanks, Guardian tanks need some massive buffs on PTS. Make Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz baseline for all disciplines. Your level 70 choice can become: Enure, Force Push/Freezing Force and Awe. Make Guardian Leap at least an option for all disciplines, preferably baseline with the active ability replaced by a buff to its damage reduction instead (like the current utility).

[MartiuSartorius]

Assassin tanks are absolutely the best tanks in pve and proposing changes will make them even better while jugg tanks are the worst tanks in pve right now and proposing changes are huge nerf. Chosing between saber reflect, mad dash and awe is crazy. All 3 abilities schould be base skills. Chosing for tank spec schould be freezing skin, push and second stun (bash hilt?). Also Teeth Grid tactical should be passivve and saber reflect should have increased dmg cap (a lot). It would be nice to jugg tanks be viable again. I would like to play class i enjoy instead of being forced to play assassin tank...again:(

[Draconus-Spawn]

little off topic maybe but ...does the pruning mean they pick abilities everyone has right now, put it in a talent tree row and let you choose one of three like in wow?

this is the dumbest thing ever ...

 

Yes. It is the dumbest thing ever.

 

It is like taking a Kid's favorite action figure away from him, tearing off the arms and legs, then giving him the body back and telling him to choose 3 of the 4 appendages that he prefers and then acting like you are doing the kid a favor.

 

I predict this Expansion will lead to a mass exodus, just like what has happened in all other MMOs that carry out an ability pruning.

 

Players should be smart enough to learn that they can play the game with less abilities and if the want to take some off of their toolbars, they can. It is a matter of choice. You don't want to use all of your stuns or slows or knockbacks? Then don't.

 

But don't demand that they be pruned from EVERYONE just because you want to play something simple like a Mobile Game App.

[TheVoyant]

Yes. It is the dumbest thing ever.

 

It is like taking a Kid's favorite action figure away from him, tearing off the arms and legs, then giving him the body back and telling him to choose 3 of the 4 appendages that he prefers and then acting like you are doing the kid a favor.

 

I predict this Expansion will lead to a mass exodus, just like what has happened in all other MMOs that carry out an ability pruning.

 

Players should be smart enough to learn that they can play the game with less abilities and if the want to take some off of their toolbars, they can. It is a matter of choice. You don't want to use all of your stuns or slows or knockbacks? Then don't.

 

But don't demand that they be pruned from EVERYONE just because you want to play something simple like a Mobile Game App.

 

I don't think it could be worded better. A lot of us have already cancelled subs and left, some of us are trying to play the game while it's still decent.

 

Mostly I'm hoping this completely obvious common sense point of view will actually set in.

 

It's totally ok to admit you've made a mistake and are doing something that will make a large amount of your player base unhappy and leave. In fact it would be kinda refreshing to see. I'd rather hear "You know what, the feedback has been overwhelmingly negative so we're going to rethink our approach" vs. "We're doing this, deal with it or don't play."

 

All it has done though is further divide the community which struggles already as is.

 

I have yet to see a single post saying "This is an improvement" at best you see "This is ok" or "I don't mind this change." especially when paired against the "please do not do this."

 

When mediocre is the expectation, it is very hard to have confidence in the direction.