How Is This a "Big" Expansion?

[Phazonfreak]

The ramifications of this new approach to advanced classes is also huge. I'm not saying it will happen, and I am also not claiming it is likely to happen, but combat styles opens the very distinct possibility of new advanced classes later down the line.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking while watching the stream and it got me really excited. Whether or not we will get new advanced classes out of it down the line, but decoupling combat mechanics from the core classes and their story progression is a pretty big deal and probably one of the most intensive reworks considering their limited resources and having to work with this Chimera of an engine.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[duranterich]

I think "we're putting a semi reverse NGE into the game and will also update, tech, visuals and UI" is a big announcement considering the resources they have at the moment.

 

I strongly believe that with how spaghetti-coded the game was, detaching the advanced classes from their base class and turning the semi-WoW system into a FFXIV system was a very big development process, hence why Keith, Eric and Charles were so excited to finally announce it.

 

The ramifications of this new approach to advanced classes is also huge. I'm not saying it will happen, and I am also not claiming it is likely to happen, but combat styles opens the very distinct possibility of new advanced classes later down the line. One of the biggest issues with new classes has always been class stories, voice acting for an entirely new class and companions for it. With gameplay being removed from all three of those, the process of adding an advanced class is doable. They could finish the process in 7.0 and then for 8.0 add a new class or two for the first time in twelve years. For example, what about a non-force-using melee DPS like a Teräs Käsi fighter or a gladiator? They could use a quarterstaff/vibroblade and have melee combat like the Assassin/Guardian, but no force abilities. One of the things that always bugged me about making a melee Mandalorian with stuff like the Mythran hunter glaive is that they still shoot lightning or throw pebbles with the Force. If I could play a glaive wielder without any force abilities, I'd immediately do it.

 

Now, I'm not saying that will happen or is likely to happen, but a man can dream. All things considered, this was a huge announcement and certainly beats: "okay, two new flashpoints and two ops" from SoR out of the water for me.

 

Ya know, you make a fantastic point.

 

This opens the door for a melee "Tech" class to be chosen by BH/Agent/Trooper/Smug. Even if they were just carbon copies of the force users, I'd be happy.

 

Abilities like Force Push could translate to a single target knockback with a wrist pulse generator, Force Pull is grapple (already in game), just to name a few.

 

*waves at Devs*

[Pricia]

The expansion might not be huge, but they'll be extra stuff for all of 2022 too.

They never said it would be a big expansion.

[arunav]

The expansion might not be huge, but they'll be extra stuff for all of 2022 too.

They never said it would be a big expansion.

 

Big wasn't referring to size, but "something special" and other phrases like that indicated an expansion that has more to it than past ones.

 

What has been announced is basically like Onslaught. Depending on how large Mannan is, it might actually be smaller in scope, though hopefully the story is lengthier despite not having multiple planets included.

 

My point was BW promoted something "special" multiple times for the 10th anniversary, and what was announced seems like any other SWTOR expansion but smaller in scale, with a map into 2022 for things that were probably planned to be included in the launch but weren't able to make it due to the pandemic or other setbacks the studio may have had.

 

I'm glad the game is still getting expansions and updates. My reason for posting is I was surprised there wasn't more to 7.0, given the previous statements. Those statements were the only reason I thought this particular year might see SWTOR get more content than the small updates we've become accustomed to.

 

The incoming changes to combat seem convenient, but, without more new playable content, I'm not sure how engaging they will be after the novelty wears off. Lots of players have alts of the various advanced classes, and since all endgame gear was made legacy-bound in 6.0, making playing these alts very accessible, I can't imagine the upcoming combat changes are the "very special" thing BW was referring to. Replaying class stories that are 10 years old with a different, previously unavailable combat spec, after many, many double XP events over the years, can't possibly be what BW meant.

Edited July 6, 2021 by arunav

[OlBuzzard]

BIG expansion?

 

Hmmmm let me see:

 

** new "play styles" ... while that does not change any of the stories ( well story now) .. it will affect every character we have regardless of how we personally choose to use them. ( know I wont be re-rolling new characters just for this... but should be interesting to see how it affects the future episodes and instances we play in.

 

** some additional UI changes ( sincerely hope that they get the new addons fixed first before adding more ). I do appreciate that they listened to other matters regarding a recent UI addon (that is STILL appreciated very much.

 

** more NEW stories will be added.

 

** more stuff besides this !!!

 

BUT NO ADDITIONAL charges .. Simply continue to pay monthly subs.

 

( I would make additional comments about additional charges to get a couple items we REALLY want ... BUT IMO that is another thread .. another time ).

Edited July 6, 2021 by OlBuzzard

[Tsillah]

BIG expansion?

 

Hmmmm let me see:

 

** new "play styles" ... while that does not change any of the stories ( well story now) .. it will affect every character we have regardless of how we personally choose to use them. ( know I wont be re-rolling new characters just for this... but should be interesting to see how it affects the future episodes and instances we play in.

 

** some additional UI changes ( sincerely hope that they get the new addons fixed first before adding more ). I do appreciate that they listened to other matters regarding a recent UI addon (that is STILL appreciated very much.

 

** more NEW stories will be added.

 

** more stuff besides this !!!

 

BUT NO ADDITIONAL charges .. Simply continue to pay monthly subs.

 

( I would make additional comments about additional charges to get a couple items we REALLY want ... BUT IMO that is another thread .. another time ).

So again...how is this a big expansion? It's very minimal compared to other MMOs. I'd rather pay for an expansion if it gives me more to do. SWTOR never really had big expansions anyway but they get smaller and smaller each time.

 

In the end all the visual upgrades and UI changes and even the combat styles add to the game as a whole but none if it's new content or new ways of playing things. Because the combat styles just use what's in the game already.

 

I will say what it will do - it will make the majority of FPs stealth runs, because everybody can switch to stealth now and people might even start requiring it. It'll be the new meta for FPs.

[Kalnarius]

but what i really hate and could be the reason to deinstall the game again, is the new level cap.

personally i don't think that there is any justification for such a tiny dlc. you need to be a subscriber

to run the operations and with that actual ultra ****** gearing system, with no linear process, will

take weeks or months again, just to run the stuff we liked to play, again; plus one operation. and

i just think, that this is not worth it and it could be way better just to deinstall the game.

 

We are most likely not going to get new gear set bonuses/tacticals let's be real about that much. All that really is going to happen is item level increase people were 306 in the first 2 days of Onslaught had full set gear by the end of the first week. The last time before Onslaught they messed around with set gear was in RotHC, messing with things from base game. Since then we effectively were running same set gear just new stats and shells expansion until Onslaught when those same set bonuses were basically eliminated after 74. I cannot see them actually adding new set gear/tacticals in the game. Instead just be new item levels and focus on other aspects of the game instead of the gearing process. Meaning mostly likely you are going to be still using your set shells you have this expansion.

 

We technically did get 2 ops in kotet between Queen and Iokath but before that SoR we got 3 with Monolith (ziost), Ravagers and ToS, in RotHC we got TC, SnV, TFB, DF, DP. Base game had EV, EC, KP. Cant really remember when Eyeless and Zenoanalyst came into the game. We were gettting constant content in Kotfe and people complained because we were not getting raids then they did Kotet gave us shorter chapters and 2 raids. If anything count yourself lucky that we are even getting new raid at all. I have always said Swtor was not a actual MMO it was more a RPG that happened to have MMO aspects adapted to it. There in lies the problem people expect Swtor to be something it is not truly. Story has always been what Swtor is about endgame, raids and pvp are all nice but take a backseat to Swtor's storyline.

 

With them doing more patches throughout next yr I can tolerate lighter initial content as long as they actually release content like they were suppose to before Covid put a hault on the stuff and made it to where we got cut content because of the virus situation put a damper and limited what they were able to do for several months. They really were only able to start getting back on track since August. But we may end up with more actual raids later on. maybe smaller 1s but still count as raids.

[OlBuzzard]

So again...how is this a big expansion? It's very minimal compared to other MMOs. I'd rather pay for an expansion if it gives me more to do. SWTOR never really had big expansions anyway but they get smaller and smaller each time.

 

In the end all the visual upgrades and UI changes and even the combat styles add to the game as a whole but none if it's new content or new ways of playing things. Because the combat styles just use what's in the game already.

 

I will say what it will do - it will make the majority of FPs stealth runs, because everybody can switch to stealth now and people might even start requiring it. It'll be the new meta for FPs.

 

No disagreement there!

 

Heck .. I spend an average of $100 - $150 (USD) on a new bass rod !! ( that's not the most expensive out there ... just simply what I spend personally).

 

YUP ! IF WE GOT THE REAL DEAL !! I'd drop the same thing on a REAL expansion in a heart beat. (Please note: I'm NOT that well off. Retired and on a fixed income. I'm just being realistic on what it takes today to get the job done).

 

PPS: I was going to put this statement on another thread at another time ... BUT since this can of worms has been opened ... Just my $.02 worth.

[Tsillah]

No disagreement there!

 

Heck .. I spend an average of $100 - $150 (USD) on a new bass rod !! ( that's not the most expensive out there ... just simply what I spend personally).

 

YUP ! IF WE GOT THE REAL DEAL !! I'd drop the same thing on a REAL expansion in a heart beat. (Please note: I'm NOT that well off. Retired and on a fixed income. I'm just being realistic on what it takes today to get the job done).

 

PPS: I was going to put this statement on another thread at another time ... BUT since this can of worms has been opened ... Just my $.02 worth.

 

The way I look at it, is that they do their best where their livelihood is; money in other words. So this game makes its money with subs and the cartel market. So they have to make subs worth it to enough people by setting restrictions on F2P and they have to have new items and sales in the CM to keep people spending money. So the subs that's easy and the CM well that's where their main efforts lie.

 

It's not in new content. That's why subs don't have to pay for it. If paid expansions were a part of their main earnings they would do their best more to make sure they bring out new and exciting content. Instead they overhype what little the offer in the ways of new content and make just enough to keep people playing.

 

This works because of two words: Star Wars.

 

That's my 2 cents anyways

Edited July 7, 2021 by Tsillah

[OlBuzzard]

The way I look at it, is that they do their best where their livelihood is; money in other words. So this game makes its money with subs and the cartel market. So they have to make subs worth it to enough people by setting restrictions on F2P and they have to have new items and sales in the CM to keep people spending money. So the subs that's easy and the CM well that's where their main efforts lie.

 

It's not in new content. That's why subs don't have to pay for it. If paid expansions were a part of their main earnings they would do their best more to make sure they bring out new and exciting content. Instead they overhype what little the offer in the ways of new content and make just enough to keep people playing.

 

This works because of two words: Star Wars.

 

That's my 2 cents anyways

 

Perhaps .. from a certain stand point of view!

 

Then again ... I can't help but to wonder about the possibilities:

** What if ?

** What would happen if we DID get that new and exciting content?

** Reactivate at least a few of those things which kickstarted SWTOR in the first place

.... ** meaning at least SOME of the stories INCLUDING the ALLIANCE and (or) those who returned to the Republic or the Empire

....[/color ]** bringing back companions : at least 4 (2 empire .. 2 Republic) or as someone else has suggested some time back 4 new ones (since the rest are dead or missing).

.... ** skill trees ??? That would be interesting with the merger of the new abilities / skills Hmmm now that would be interesting. (Not saying good or bad)

 

Note: there are obviously a LOT of different areas this could apply to. As several others have pointed out over the last several months: A lot has been in need of TLC in so many areas. IMO this is not a reflection of the skill and abilities of those who are doing the work ... but rather the restrictions that SEEMS to be dictating the future of the game.

 

Edited

Edited July 7, 2021 by OlBuzzard

[Tsillah]

Perhaps .. from a certain stand point of view!

 

Then again ... I can't help but to wonder about the possibilities:

** What if ?

** What would happen if we DID get that new and exciting content?

** Reactivate at least a few of those things which kickstarted SWTOR in the first place

.... ** meaning at least SOME of the stories INCLUDING the ALLIANCE and (or) those who returned to the Republic or the Empire

....[/color ]** bringing back companions : at least 4 (2 empire .. 2 Republic) or as someone else has suggested some time back 4 new ones (since the rest are dead or missing).

.... ** skill trees ??? That would be interesting with the merger of the new abilities / skills Hmmm now that would be interesting. (Not saying good or bad)

 

Note: there are obviously a LOT of different areas this could apply to. As several others have pointed out over the last several months: A lot has been in need of TLC in so many areas. IMO this is not a reflection of the skill and abilities of those who are doing the work ... but rather the restrictions that SEEMS to be dictating the future of the game.

 

Edited

 

Oh I play the "what if" game a lot too. And if it does happen it doesn't happen in a way that I was hoping for to begin with. For me the bottom line is that it's a SW MMO. And until there is another SW MMO, it's unlikely I'll stop playing this. However, I do take more breaks now than before. I can only regurgitate the same content for a few months at a time.

[Christie_Swift]

The class ability options are a welcome change, surely. It'll be great to be able to play any Force or Tech spec on any given Force or Tech class.

 

I don't see this as a "big" expansion, however, considering that's what BW was promoting for some time now.

 

It's smaller in size than SoR/3.x (which had 2 good FPs, 2 Ops, 1 planet, 1 daily area, class-specific missions, the newer rakghoul event, the Rishi arena map, probably forgetting some things), and the 4 FPs leading up to it.

 

It's way smaller than RotHC/2.x (which had the last large explorable planet in SWTOR, Makeb, 2 Czerka FPs, 3 Ops + TC, totaling 18 bosses, the addition of multiple daily areas, PVP arenas and ranked seasons, GSF(!!), the Stronghold system, bounty hunter event, a ton of new things added to the CM, etc).

 

If anything, this expansion seems like another on the scale of Onslaught, which was small but included a substantial change to the gearing system and the introduction of the tactical slot (both of which were good improvements). This time the substantial change is being able to use any Force or Tech spec on a given Force or Tech class.

 

But content? 1 planet that will double as a daily area - we know the general size of those. 1 FP. 1 Operation.

 

That's EA/BW celebrating the 10th anniversary?!

 

I wasn't expecting much, since EA made up its mind about SWTOR many years ago, but BW definitely shouldn't have advertised this as "big". It's not.

 

I agree as well. They call it an expansion but I will call it an "update"

They just want you to believe it is REAL one and it is sending a precedent for any future so called expansions that will be as lackluster as this one might be in terms of new storylines or TRUE content

[JCDenton]

An expansion where the core selling point seems to be the ability to play through a decade old story, already in the game, using abilities that were already in the game. But now, when the Bounty Hunter clears mobs on Hutta, he'll be able to do it via a differently colored and animated, but statistically similar, AOE. They wanted the Bounty Hunter to be able to use a rifle (and to have a reason to purchase a cartel market rifle), to be on-brand with the Mandalorian, but also didn't want to bother creating new animations in the few places it would be needed, and so took the path of least effort we see now.

[OlBuzzard]

I'm looking forward to the "NEW" content .. You know the actual NEW stuff!

 

I will not judge what I have not seen or experienced until it is here! (Sorry ... that might not work for some folks .. that's their choice )

 

That said .. I have NO plans at this time to rehash the original parts of the game PLUS KotFE / ET plus JUS PLUS Onslaught with the new "style" of game play. The new style is exactly that .. STYLE. IMO that does not constitute new content.

 

This statement is not meant to be critical of the team. They said that new content and new story(s) ARE coming and I applaud that statement. I will wait and see what happens.

 

Speculation is nothing more than that .. speculation.

 

BTW ... not meant to be read as a rant. Simply as a calm statement of fact(s).

[supercometl]

Here is a hint, it is only an "expansion" because they are done with the last set of "sub for 1 month at X date and get all of (6).x content"

 

Keep in mind with 6.x we did get 3 fps, though honestly they should have made the emperor stuff repeatable, even as solo only. 1 Operation that is about on levels with Gods, so good.

 

Now, most of us on the forms tend to keep their sub up more than just once an expansion, but that is a group of people the devs know they have to give a larger incentive to sub, past running old ops and pvping. Galactic seasons isn't an incentive, it is more a subscriber reward, at least by how I have seen it.

[SavantDreadtech]

Big or small when talking about expansion, is relative dependant on your own expectations.

 

As an xpac this is on par with many other ones done in the past. As a 10th anniversary, it was a little underwhelming, but only as this is the 10th year. Overall very little info is out and none of us has played any of the new story/FP/Op so really a little to soon to bring out the doom and glume.

[ImmortalLowlife]

They said it'll continue all year after the initial release, so while I'm not expecting anything huge...I don't think we'll be able to truly judge the "size" until sometime around December of next year.

 

And regardless of how big it actually ends up being, for some it still won't be enough.

[OlBuzzard]

They said it'll continue all year after the initial release, so while I'm not expecting anything huge...I don't think we'll be able to truly judge the "size" until sometime around December of next year.

 

And regardless of how big it actually ends up being, for some it still won't be enough.

 

I'd say you're pretty close to right !

 

I would also add that with the upcoming changes and additions that is still a genuine hope that the team understands and treats with a degree of respect a few of the things that has helped keep the game (and the hopes of so many players) alive. That hope can only be stretched so far. I'm personally still holding out for that "DREAM" so to speak ... but IMO just from the tone of so many others I'd say that hope is being stretched pretty thin right about now!

 

There are so many that we've lost along the way. They use to post regularly ... and (even though we might have disagreed at times) were often at times right too !! (yeah I have a couple players in mind right now .. frankly).

 

That said: Here's to continue to hope. I know that these threads ARE being read. Hopefully the information gathered is translated into POSITIVE results for the team AND the players as well.

[Tsillah]

They said it'll continue all year after the initial release, so while I'm not expecting anything huge...I don't think we'll be able to truly judge the "size" until sometime around December of next year.

 

And regardless of how big it actually ends up being, for some it still won't be enough.

 

To be fair, SWTOR has a history of smaller expansions than other MMOs. And from what we've heard it's not going to be bigger.

 

And yes, no expansion size will please everybody but to say that for a game that has always had small expansions (and I mean on release), that's not a valid argument.

 

Think about it, they release a small expansion and then say the rest will come over time. But other games come with much bigger expansions and still do content updates over time.

 

The thing that made it work in the past were that the expansions were at least bigger than now on release and less time passed between expansions. They also had more for everybody. Now they have less for everybody.

[LeoAugustina]

Big disappointment for me.

My only hope is Manaan story wille be a bit longer (why 5 lvl more if not?).

[Tsillah]

Big disappointment for me.

My only hope is Manaan story wille be a bit longer (why 5 lvl more if not?).

 

A number of SWTOR expansions didn't warrant the 5 new levels they came with. They do it for the sake of doing it. They just add more XP per quest like Onslaught got crazy xp...I was 75 by the time I left Onderon. Same can be said for RotHC. That expansion originally was supposed to ship with class stories but because it was rushed out only came with the planetary story lines. They just upped the xp for those quests massively.

 

So don't expect the story to be any longer than Onslaught just cause there are 5 more levels.

[ruffolofi]

I admit I was also disappointed. One of the main reasons I still play the game is because I really loved the class stories and all the expansions until the Eternal Fleet was destroyed. After that it just hasn't been the same. I was hoping this 10th anniversary expansion might be different but it seems to be more of the same as far as story content is concerned.

[Darth-Obvious]

The thing that made it work in the past were that the expansions were at least bigger than now on release and less time passed between expansions. They also had more for everybody. Now they have less for everybody.

 

Yeah it's almost like SWTOR's player base and active subs have gotten smaller resulting in the smaller scope and size of the expansions

[JattaGin]

There are so many that we've lost along the way. They use to post regularly ... and (even though we might have disagreed at times) were often at times right too !! (yeah I have a couple players in mind right now .. frankly).

 

There isn't much to say anymore. The same few people commenting on everything with the same things they always say remained. Everyone else gave up one after the other, whether just this forum, or the game itself.

 

Also, the (not so) new community manager who promised to manage the community better than the previous ones, alienated quite some former forumers with her style, before she went in line with all previous community managers, which means doing apparently everything else but managing the community. No surprise there. I predicted that already in her introductory thread. Granted, her active posting lasted one more month than I gave her.

 

Honestly, at this point, I consider the last remaining regular forumers kinda like Sisyphos. Always doing the same thing, and expecting a different outcome. You mention "hope". After all these years, how can anyone still think that this time it will be different than before? It will not be. Or that our opinion (e. g. in the PTS forum) matters? It does not. This is not a doom and gloom outlook, this is just how it is and has always been on this forum.

 

7.0 will be exactly as they told us. There won't be any additional surprise they didn't mention yet. And their big celebrations throughout 2022 will be just the same small addons as after 6.0, as well as the regular in-game events. Please stop reading between the lines, people. Ever since Mr. Kanneg took the lead, we got and get exactly what they state. Nothing more. Nothing less. And since this is like it is, there isn't much point in writing on this forum anymore. I read their announcements and that's it. Commenting on it is pointless at this point. The time when an open discussion might have done something are long gone. The game isn't in that phase anymore.

 

Zero of my friends still play this game. That includes the "online SWTOR friends" I made along the way. And it also includes my friend list on this forum. Sometimes, on an early Saturday morning like today, I might come back and post a few things. Then I leave again. I still like and play this game regularly, but the discussion culture on this forum has been killed since Mr. Kanneg took over, and the cuffin was closed for good by Jackie. It's not a fun place anymore. It was my favourite online discussion place for me from 2009 to 2020. RIP this forum, at least for me.

[Tsillah]

Yeah it's almost like SWTOR's player base and active subs have gotten smaller resulting in the smaller scope and size of the expansions

 

Or is it the smaller expansions that caused players to leave, notably because there is not enough new content being brought out?

 

This comes down to the almost failure of the game when it was released and the first expansion having to be rushed out because of the "rescue plan". If they'd invested into the game then, we'd have bigger expansions but they didn't and they noticed that they could get away with smaller expansions.

 

SWTOR did have expansions more frequently than other games, so it sort of worked the first few years, but more recently they've gotten really small. It certainly ensures the player base remains small. In the end for financial reasons there have to be enough players to make a profit and as long as it's enough I guess they have low ambitions beyond that.

 

In the end though it's the chicken and the egg question, but with smaller all less frequent expansions, they're certainly not gonna make the player base grow.