Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Megalonn]

If that is the case, then this would be a blunder of astronomical proportions. But it is just code afterall, so there HAS to be a way to change it. If man coded it, man can rewrite it. Let's hope.

 

I dont think they have full rights over the engine. It was purchased from another company.

[Traumahawk]

I dont think they have full rights over the engine. It was purchased from another company.

 

Very unusual arrangement for a developer's license for a AAA game of this magnitude. And if it isn't part of the agreement, then Hero Engine has quite a lot to lose if they are penned with being responsible for the demise of a highly anticipated game. I would think they would be working with BW around the clock to find a mutually beneficial resolution.

[Thrage]

The engine is OK, it's not designed like this. It's how it was used that's the problem.

 

That's the good news.

 

The bad? It's still going to take forever to fix.

[Skizzik]

This has got to be fixed asap. What is the point of having abilities off of the gcd if all they do is bug out and not work properly. I can't believe that this game was released in this state. You messed up big time Bioware.

[NJoyTheSilence]

I am not claiming to be super awesome. I am good, but I have no "ranked" status in any game besides halo. I am stating the people in my guild do have ranked status. They are seeing the same delay issues that others and myself are seeing.

 

While my statement was not nice, it mostly stems from most not actually understanding, or properly replicating the bugs. I urge you all to roll a sentinel, the class I play, and do our off global, and attempt to use another ability right after. I am positive you will notice the failed skill usage and stuttering. I have heard gunslingers going to cover and using abilities are also an issue.

 

also, In a warfront, if you tab quickly and charge or heal to fast, it will heal the previous target instead of the newest. These issues are not some smoke and mirror show that the op and the rest of us pulled from a hat. They are very real, and very widespread. Some of our guild was not able to pinpoint what was wrong with combat till it was brought up, but they knew something was wrong. As soon as it was pointed out to them, they saw it, and know it it impossible to go back to being oblivious.

 

Sorry for being mean, I should have been nicer... but this is how it is. You are right, forums in general could use a "nicer" more comrade style tone.

 

 

Edit: The "nay say bunch" are the fanbois acting like there is no issue, not the people in agreement. I think some of you misunderstood.

Edited January 2, 2012 by NJoyTheSilence

[elvinu]

i bet everyone at BW is playing wow now just to figure out

[Dumpiduke]

i bet everyone at BW is playing wow now just to figure out

 

Honestly, that's the best thing that we can hope for. If combat in this game can mirror WoW's, look out WoW subscriptions. Seriously.

[Uhuru]

The difference is that this game actually had potential. Go watch some GW2 trailers. They all say, "we noticed that all WoW's competitors were failing because the gameplay just didn't feel polished. The games were sometimes really cool conceptually, but they just didn't have that streamlined feeling to the gameplay. We feel Guild Wars 2 solves those issues."

 

They are literally making a game based on the failure of games like Rift, Aion, Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings Online, etc. I played Rift to like, level 15, played a battleground and immediately uninstalled it. I never went to their forums, I never did any of that stuff.

 

Facts:

 

1) The problem is universal and it does exist to a serious enough extent that the game is unplayable from a competitive standpoint.

 

2) Nobody would be posting here if they didn't want to like the game.

 

3) This game is going to die just like every other game with the same problem did if it doesn't find some miracle to repair the terrible coding.

 

4) If you disagree with 1-3, you're basically a stupid, worthless person whose opinion is severely discredited by the fact that your brain is apparently constantly losing 2-3 seconds of your time.

 

I agree that this problem needs to be addressed but some of your "facts" are disturbing. I believe you have single handedly taken internet forums to an all time low.

 

Congratulations . . . . i guess.

[Skizzik]

i bet everyone at BW is playing wow now just to figure out

 

This made me lol. Too bad it wouldn't do any good though. Blizzard was actually talented enough to write their own engine, so they're going to be the only ones to benefit from it. Bioware spent way too much money on VO and not enough on actual gameplay.

[Owarida]

Do the mods actually make a new post or does the forum do it automatically after a certain post count is reached?

[Zeetofox]

I came here from WoW, all i played wow for was arena and RBG's so i intend to play this game only for PvP. If they do happen to bring up some fun challenging PvE content ill jump at the opportunity (assuming they fix this issue). So, my plan is to play until my 2 months subscription is up and if its not fixed by then i'd imagine the game has no PvP future whatsoever and back to WoW i go.

 

They caught the eyes of a lot of highly skilled PvP'ers which is extremely fortunate for them, but in all reality even though i'm giving it 2 months a lot of people will quit within the first month. Simply because the skill in PvP is split second use of abilities such as interrupting, spamming an interrupt just to have it go off after their cast is already done is absurd. So in short, I have no problem going back to WoW if they don't fix this, i'm not a die hard Star Wars fan.

 

Also, the fact that they dont have employees actively monitoring and responding to people just makes people think they aren't listening which myself and many others are probably already worried about it. Feels like we're just talking amongst ourselves.

[Reedful]

I am not claiming to be super awesome. I am good, but I have no "ranked" status in any game besides halo. I am stating the people in my guild do have ranked status. They are seeing the same delay issues that others and myself are seeing.

 

While my statement was not nice, it mostly stems from most not actually understanding, or properly replicating the bugs. I urge you all to roll a sentinel, the class I play, and do our off global, and attempt to use another ability right after. I am positive you will notice the failed skill usage and stuttering. I have heard gunslingers going to cover and using abilities are also an issue.

 

also, In a warfront, if you tab quickly and charge or heal to fast, it will heal the previous target instead of the newest. These issues are not some smoke and mirror show that the op and the rest of us pulled from a hat. They are very real, and very widespread. Some of our guild was not able to pinpoint what was wrong with combat till it was brought up, but they knew something was wrong. As soon as it was pointed out to them, they saw it, and know it it impossible to go back to being oblivious.

 

Sorry for being mean, I should have been nicer... but this is how it is. You are right, forums in general could use a "nicer" more comrade style tone.

 

 

Edit: The "nay say bunch" are the fanbois acting like there is no issue, not the people in agreement. I think some of you misunderstood.

sums it up

[Reedful]

I agree that this problem needs to be addressed but some of your "facts" are disturbing. I believe you have single handedly taken internet forums to an all time low.

 

Congratulations . . . . i guess.

 

I'm sorry that you felt that what I wrote applied to you. What else can I say? When I play the game, it's completely unplayable. I don't see how anyone could spend time trying to compete in an environment like that. All you can do is spam your damage/healing rotations as efficiently as possible and get all the medals you can - but that doesn't make you good at anything.

 

If you can honestly play the game and not notice any of the delays, there's something wrong with the way you perceive reality. It's as simple as that to me. I'm sorry you feel otherwise.

[ShaggyShow]

I also just posted this on the SI forum, but i will repeat it here for the people that have noticed this aswell and do not play SI. Maybe this is also a problem with other classes / specs and is seen as a lack of responsiveness while it is not.

 

Class: Sith Inquisitor

Spec: Heal

Que timer: 0.25sec

Spell Buildup: Resurgence > Dark Infusion > Dark Infusion.

 

What should happen: Cast a HoT that reduces the cast time of your next Dark Infusion by 1 second and then a normal cast time on the 2nd Dark Infusion.

 

What the game tells me: Cast HoT > Dark Infusion with 1.5sec cast time > Dark Infusion with 1.5sec cast time.

 

What actually happends: Cast HoT > Dark Infusion with 1.5sec cast time > Dark Infusion with 2.5sec cast time.

 

What is wrong: The cast bar of the second Dark Infusion tells me that it only takes 1.5sec. While this should be 2.5sec.

 

Frequency: 90% of the time when i do this.

 

Caused by: Placing your 2nd Dark Infusion in the que while the 1st one is still casting!

 

This feels as lack of responsiveness, but in reality it is just the game giving you wrong info while acting 100% correct. Hope it helps Bioware and fellow healers out there!

Edited January 2, 2012 by ShaggyShow

[Xcore]

I agree that this problem needs to be addressed but some of your "facts" are disturbing. I believe you have single handedly taken internet forums to an all time low.

 

Congratulations . . . . i guess.

 

Don't mistake the rudeness or harshness with being wrong. I actually see nothing but truth in his post... again, very harsh truth that a lot will be offended by but nothing but truth.

 

You don't have to agree with the methods but the evidence and logic do speak for themselves.

[Dumpiduke]

I'm sorry that you felt that what I wrote applied to you. What else can I say? When I play the game, it's completely unplayable. I don't see how anyone could spend time trying to compete in an environment like that. All you can do is spam your damage/healing rotations as efficiently as possible and get all the medals you can - but that doesn't make you good at anything.

 

If you can honestly play the game and not notice any of the delays, there's something wrong with the way you perceive reality. It's as simple as that to me. I'm sorry you feel otherwise.

 

I'm inclined to agree with Reedful. These issues are glaringly obvious. If Bioware is paying attention to any threads at all, I hope that this one is their top priority. If not, this the game is in for a rude awakening...no doubt about it.

[Xcore]

I really hope that the Developers (and people in charge generally) did not in fact go on a holiday after release. Or rather, I hope they have not been on holidays for the past week through which this discussion evolved.

 

I would actually rather they kept up and read the pages silently while trying to work than come back to work tomorrow and some clerk says, "Oh how was your vacation? there is some little thing on the forums but its nothing I think. Get back to balancing Sith Inquisitors"...

 

I haven't really said this but for me its starting to be "Make or Break" pretty soon, simply due to lack of communication. No MMO Gamer wants to "waste" their Time/Money without some confidence in future stability. This is what WoW does very well, I can confidently play and invest time into my character fully knowing that WoW will still be playable and decent (at the very least) in 3 years.

 

I cannot have that same confidence in this product, the silent treatment that Bioware/EA give us, does not help alleviate this.

[Arkimor]

I'm inclined to agree with Reedful. These issues are glaringly obvious. If Bioware is paying attention to any threads at all, I hope that this one is their top priority. If not, this the game is in for a rude awakening...no doubt about it.

 

Exactly.

 

What's so odd though (to be nice) is how this not only got through the ENTIRE beta, but how it even got through development!

 

Georg (think I'm spelling that right), couldn't have leaned back in his massage chair at work, looked at this, and thought "Yes, perfect; this is exactly as fluid as combat needs to be!"

[FerrusPA]

I've had dark thoughts about TOR falling flat on its face and EA shutting down Bioware entirely. Morose? Exaggerated? Of course but possibly closer to the truth than anyone would like.

[Kerbs]

I am at Level 50 now, Have posted in the previous threads on this issue and got to say this is driving me nutz.

 

I am soloing and having major issues hitting abilities like Zealous strike and Merciless slash,.

 

I hit the button character does a partial swing and resets, does not consume gcd or ability and no damage is dealt, I actually patiently tried this like 5 times on one go and it just looks like animation starts then stops.

 

This is not Latency or an FPS issues but is Maddening, i am not even mashing the buttons at all. It seems an on and off issue.

 

Please fix this I am really trying to stick with the game but this ruins the feel of the game for me.

[Xcore]

Exactly.

 

What's so odd though (to be nice) is how this not only got through the ENTIRE beta, but how it even got through development!

 

Georg (think I'm spelling that right), couldn't have leaned back in his massage chair at work, looked at this, and thought "Yes, perfect; this is exactly as fluid as combat needs to be!"

 

He could, very possibly have done just that. Imagine the entire development focus being on immersion (or thinking it anyways -- not realizing that this feeling of responsiveness is a major part of immersion).

 

What if Georg and his team were instructed to "perfect" immersion? What if they were told, "Hey, WoW is good and all but look at how the swords don't touch!! -- We need to make Lightsabers touch!!" What if their entire focus was misguided in this or similar fashion?

 

NOW ADD TO THAT

 

A seemingly casual *** development team, none of them likely have ever killed a Boss encounter on heroic while it was relevant. Furthermore, I have serious doubts that any of the team have any credible credentials in PvP (CS:S, SC2, WC3, WoW Arena etc.).

 

I am almost completely convinced that the Bioware Dev. Team is put together by incredibly casual people who are out of touch with the more "high up" things in MMO Gaming. Both Blizzard (especially), ArenaNet, Trion, have some pretty serious gamers in their ranks -- and I don't mean "pretty serious RPers".

 

CONCLUSION

 

I believe there was way too much "Back-patting" being done at the "amazing" success that Lightsabers "touch" in combat and deflect blasters etc. to notice something like the lack of responsiveness.

 

There was simply no-one around to say: "Umm, guys, this is garbage... why is this so clunky?"

 

They believe their PvP to be amazing, and balanced! You know why? because it is! -- It balances a Top Player (Professional even) with a complete novice to MMO Gaming. Anyone can really kill anyone in this system, personal "skill" is rather made ineffective. I think Bioware was deluded by this a little?

 

 

 

Once again, I would love nothing more than a Bioware employee to correct all of the above, until that time... I can simply analyze and draw conclusions.

[eycel]

I had just got done telling some dude on mmorpg.com that was having a hard time getting him self aroused to log back into this game what makes me want to log into it all the time, I told him the combat cause I loved how silky smooth it was for my Jedi Knight.

 

Its one of those things to me, Iv been playing mmos since meridian 59 and underlight which I still do, but I own mostly just mmos. My latest being WOW, Rift, SWG, Warhammer online, and Aion plus tons others like eve, lotro,DDO, just about every mmo you can think of, I also played a bit of everquest when it first released. What I was saying though, with this game is even though there are a few iffy moments in combat, the game will change with time, its not always going to stay like that. I mean who can tell the difference between all the player resistances to which skills any way plus you cant expect the thousands of skills bioware has made to work flawlessly in there first week, I dont know exactly but to me it didnt bother me really.

 

Iv put in 40 hours so far, which isnt much but Iv enjoyed it alot, and look forward to loging back in every time I play. Maybee look more at enjoying logging into the game then its downfalls for now untill the dust settles for SWTOR to some degree.

 

Just remember, the game is what the players make of it especially in an mmorpg. You can everything in the world but it wont make you happy all the time. SWTOR is going to be what you make of it, even if the combat was 100% perfect, can you tell your selves that there wouldnt be something else causing you to say the game just isnt up to your standards. Its not easy being SWTOR, guide it along, push it forward with care dont overload it by saying the game is **** and its going to stay that way till it dies and that its a terrible pos cause of some delay.

Edited January 2, 2012 by eycel

[Corwingeorge]

watching pvp vids on warcraftmovies.com right now and holy cow i forgot how much more fun wow's pvp/gameplay is.

 

i wish i wasnt 100% burned out of it from playin it so much

Edited January 2, 2012 by Corwingeorge

[Xcore]

I had just got done telling some dude on mmorpg.com that was having a hard time getting him self aroused to log back into this game what makes me want to log into it all the time, I told him the combat cause I loved how silky smooth it was for my Jedi Knight.

 

Its one of those things to me, Iv been playing mmos since meridian 59 and underlight which I still do, but I own mostly just mmos. My latest being WOW, Rift, SWG, Warhammer online, and Aion plus tons others like eve, lotro,DDO, just about every mmo you can think of, I also played a bit of everquest when it first released. What I was saying though, with this game is even though there are a few iffy moments in combat, the game will change with time, its not always going to stay like that. I mean who can tell the difference between all the player resistances to which skills any way plus you cant expect the thousands of skills bioware has made to work flawlessly in there first week, I dont know exactly but to me it didnt bother me really.

 

Iv put in 40 hours so far, which isnt much but Iv enjoyed it alot, and look forward to loging back in every time I play. Maybee look more at enjoying logging into the game then its downfalls for now untill the dust settles for SWTOR to some degree.

 

There is no way of putting it nicely, you simply don't know what you are talking about in relation to what this thread is discussing. I hope you continue to enjoy SW:TOR.

[Arkimor]

He could, very possibly have done just that. Imagine the entire development focus being on immersion (or thinking it anyways -- not realizing that this feeling of responsiveness is a major part of immersion).

 

What if Georg and his team were instructed to "perfect" immersion? What if they were told, "Hey, WoW is good and all but look at how the swords don't touch!! -- We need to make Lightsabers touch!!" What if their entire focus was misguided in this or similar fashion?

 

NOW ADD TO THAT

 

A seemingly casual *** development team, none of them likely have ever killed a Boss encounter on heroic while it was relevant. Furthermore, I have serious doubts that any of the team have any credible credentials in PvP (CS:S, SC2, WC3, WoW Arena etc.).

 

I am almost completely convinced that the Bioware Dev. Team is put together by incredibly casual people who are out of touch with the more "high up" things in MMO Gaming. Both Blizzard (especially), ArenaNet, Trion, have some pretty serious gamers in their ranks -- and I don't mean "pretty serious RPers".

 

CONCLUSION

 

I believe there was way too much "Back-patting" being done at the "amazing" success that Lightsabers "touch" in combat and deflect blasters etc. to notice something like the lack of responsiveness.

 

There was simply no-one around to say: "Umm, guys, this is garbage... why is this so clunky?"

 

They believe their PvP to be amazing, and balanced! You know why? because it is! -- It balances a Top Player (Professional even) with a complete novice to MMO Gaming. Anyone can really kill anyone in this system, personal "skill" is rather made ineffective. I think Bioware was deluded by this a little?

 

 

 

Once again, I would love nothing more than a Bioware employee to correct all of the above, until that time... I can simply analyze and draw conclusions.

 

You may very well be right. I did think back to the "clashing lightsabers".....let's call it "mechanic" that Bioware was so proud of, and was thinking that there may be a connection there as to how all this got through development, but I thought it was something that was possible and that could be experienced while solo'ing content, not PvP and challenging PvE, because that doesn't work!

 

As many know (and like myself, stated from the beginning) this is a corporate-run game, so it's not about making a great game, it's about making a game that sells, and that really is two different lines of thinking. The gentlemen with beards and big wallets will think that "cinematic" combat is the way of the future and will sell like hotcakes, but anyone who enjoys games (they don't even have to be a "gamer") will tell you that the smoothness and responsiveness of controls is going to out-weigh any kind of eye-candy you can come up with. It really is a clashing of two different mindsets (dare I say generations) that results in a train wreck because the ultimate decision comes down to the individual with the checkbook.

 

So like I said, you may very well be right.