Why I'm done with PvP

[supertimtaf]

Is this what Bioware wanted? Frustrated customers? MORE toxicity in WZs? People quitting PvP in droves? Because that's what you got and BW still not caring how it is killing off elements of the game.

 

I think that at this point they're trying to fix stuff, but are probable waiting "the next expansion" to do this, like they did with 5.0

 

Sadly, this isn't how it works, and I can only hope they understand soon enough that players want more updates rather than a big one which doesn't fix most issues.

[EllieAnne]

I think that at this point they're trying to fix stuff, but are probable waiting "the next expansion" to do this, like they did with 5.0

 

So like installing fire sprinklers after your building burns down.

[supertimtaf]

So like installing fire sprinklers after your building burns down.

 

Pretty much.

I didn't say it was the right thing to do. But so far it's only what they did, even if it proved unsuccessfull and really bad for the overall player mood.

[Shinzzun]

Wanted to chime in and say the team is paying attention to and monitoring feedback.

 

To everyone in this thread, I also wanted to give a heads up that I will be moving this thread to the PvP sub-forum.

 

UPDATE:

 

Today on a Sunday of all days which normally sees much PVP activity i noticed less people in PVP unranked que than ever before ! Arenas popping all Sunday from morning to evening most of the time, this has never happened before EVER, and is a sure sign of the very sad state PVP is in as almost nobody wants to PVP anymore because of your account wide PVPV deserter debuff and so there is only enough people in the que for arenas !

 

ANOTHER sign is that i was valor leveling up a new char and so its only valor level 52 and YET 9 out of 10 matches i am the OPS leader because i have the highest valor rank ! Normally i am never the highest valor rank and certainly not on a brand new char i just leveled some weeks ago and just started valor levelling. This is YET ANOTHER sure sign that all the veteran players LEFT PVP as they simply dont want to put up with your changes !

 

Will say it again : REMOVE the account wide PVP deserter debuf for unranked ! and not in 5 or 6 months (between your Anthem salvage time) but in the very next patch !

PVP is in it s worst shape in 9 plus years because of your changes ! Rescind them as soon as humanly possible !

Edited January 17, 2021 by Shinzzun

[-Bob-]

UPDATE:

 

Today on a Sunday of all days which normally sees much PVP activity i noticed less people in PVP unranked que than ever before ! Arenas popping all Sunday from morning to evening most of the time, this has never happened before EVER, and is a sure sign of the very sad state PVP is in as almost nobody wants to PVP anymore because of your account wide PVPV deserter debuff and so there is only enough people in the que for arenas !

 

ANOTHER sign is that i was valor leveling up a new char and so its only valor level 52 and YET 9 out of 10 matches i am the OPS leader because i have the highest valor rank ! Normally i am never the highest valor rank and certainly not on a brand new char i just leveled some weeks ago and just started valor levelling. This is YET ANOTHER sure sign that all the veteran players LEFT PVP as they simply dont want to put up with your changes !

 

Will say it again : REMOVE the account wide PVP deserter debuf for unranked ! and not in 5 or 6 months (between your Anthem salvage time) but in the very next patch !

PVP is in it s worst shape in 9 plus years because of your changes ! Rescind them as soon as humanly possible !

What server are you on?

I'm on SS and I've been getting consistent pops throughtout the day for both lowbies and 75's.

[TrixxieTriss]

I think that at this point they're trying to fix stuff, but are probable waiting "the next expansion" to do this, like they did with 5.0

 

Sadly, this isn't how it works, and I can only hope they understand soon enough that players want more updates rather than a big one which doesn't fix most issues.

 

If they wait too long they will kill off more players. Which is why we have so few as it is. They take too long to react to problems. We need more action faster to developing issues or mistakes made in development.

[Aricin]

I am going to shout it from the roof tops until the cows come home. You should never allow premade to queue against solo players. It’s a disease in every game that allows it and discourages casual and solo players from playing PvP modus’

 

First, easiest and most impactful change would be to remove group queue from non ranked pvp. Anyone saying that’s unfair and I like to play with my friends blah blah can play group ranked. If you or your friends are not competitive in ranked then its not about playing with friends its about having easy wins or padding stats.

 

Secondly, brings rewards at least in line with GSF

 

And mid term look at how you can properly encourage and reward objective based game play to encourage competitive environment

[supertimtaf]

I am going to shout it from the roof tops until the cows come home. You should never allow premade to queue against solo players. It’s a disease in every game that allows it and discourages casual and solo players from playing PvP modus’

 

First, easiest and most impactful change would be to remove group queue from non ranked pvp. Anyone saying that’s unfair and I like to play with my friends blah blah can play group ranked. If you or your friends are not competitive in ranked then its not about playing with friends its about having easy wins or padding stats.

 

And mid term look at how you can properly encourage and reward objective based game play to encourage competitive environment

 

So encourage players to queue for unranked, to play with a competitive mindset and focusing on a win.

But prevent groups from queuing in unranked because they're "too competitive" or too strong when it comes to objective ?

 

I'd say that currently the issue is more about pugs who lost their way on how to play rather than premades being too strong. At least in 3.0 and before, peoples were focused on playing correctly to win. Right now they still want to win, but most of them don't care about "being good".

 

The issue lies maybe somewhere else, but I don't think that preventing players who can perform well to be with others is a good idea. How can you expect peoples to get better if they can get away with winning AND performing poorly ? I get that you want to reduce the skill gap in unranked, but removing the highest ceiling isn't the right way to do so. Even more if you make premades only able to play arenas. I mean... Who cares about arenas. Civil War and Hypergate are what kept me and my friends playing, because it was fun trying to win. Not trying to proc a group ranked arena on a dead server.

 

I mean sure, you could also rework a bit of the game's way of teaching stuff, so peoples don't barge in unranked expecting to play like they do farming heroics in PvE with a god-tier companion healing them to full.

 

Nobody cared if you had premades against you back in the day, because pugs were at least decent enough to make a game interesting. And also because chances were that you also had premades in your team too who were decent. True that. But you cannot expect to have healthier games by removing premades. The issue will still be exactly the same. Good players will farm bad players, even if we queue solo. You don't need a group to kill two peoples who can't do anything but spam actions and cooldowns randomly. Except if they're Force Bound Mara. Screw them.

[Jesseriah]

UPDATE:

 

Today on a Sunday of all days which normally sees much PVP activity i noticed less people in PVP unranked que than ever before ! Arenas popping all Sunday from morning to evening most of the time, this has never happened before EVER, and is a sure sign of the very sad state PVP is in as almost nobody wants to PVP anymore because of your account wide PVPV deserter debuff and so there is only enough people in the que for arenas !

 

ANOTHER sign is that i was valor leveling up a new char and so its only valor level 52 and YET 9 out of 10 matches i am the OPS leader because i have the highest valor rank ! Normally i am never the highest valor rank and certainly not on a brand new char i just leveled some weeks ago and just started valor levelling. This is YET ANOTHER sure sign that all the veteran players LEFT PVP as they simply dont want to put up with your changes !

 

Will say it again : REMOVE the account wide PVP deserter debuf for unranked ! and not in 5 or 6 months (between your Anthem salvage time) but in the very next patch !

PVP is in it s worst shape in 9 plus years because of your changes ! Rescind them as soon as humanly possible !

 

You do realize that these changes are not even live yet, do you?

[Firelieutenant]

Yeah I must play every day but still ocnsider myself a casual player as far as grinding and knowing my rotation for pvp. I for one don't like the new way to complete these two missions. I also play GSF alot and have to rely on that and heroics now for my conquest points and tech fragments. I still pvp but wish they change it back to wins count 2x to complete the weekly. Leave it to the ranked members for only wins counting toward the mission.

[Shinzzun]

You do realize that these changes are not even live yet, do you?

 

Welcome back to the future to January 2021 !

 

These changes has been live since 6.1.4

 

https://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/10202020/game-update-6.1.4

 

so yeah since 20th of October 2020......

[Shinzzun]

I am going to shout it from the roof tops until the cows come home. You should never allow premade to queue against solo players. It’s a disease in every game that allows it and discourages casual and solo players from playing PvP modus’

 

First, easiest and most impactful change would be to remove group queue from non ranked pvp. Anyone saying that’s unfair and I like to play with my friends blah blah can play group ranked. If you or your friends are not competitive in ranked then its not about playing with friends its about having easy wins or padding stats.

 

Secondly, brings rewards at least in line with GSF

 

And mid term look at how you can properly encourage and reward objective based game play to encourage competitive environment

 

 

YES YES YES !

 

The premades being allowed to que against solo queued players has always been a BIG problem in this games PVP and also other games PVP as You mentioned. (wow developers have addressed this many times and banned addons that enabled que sync etc after they removed premade group ability's in normal battlegrounds)

 

But before You could still just leave a WZ and requeue now You ALSO have this completely unfair 15 minute lockout and it also became ACCOUNT wide !

 

To BIOWARE: REMOVE PVP unranked deserter lockout ! and change it so premades cant que for unranked matches ! This IS LONG OVERDUE !

 

[DariusCalera]

Before you start crying to Bioware about their poor decision making, maybe you should take and a deep look at yourselves and realize that these things were added to the game based on your own feedback...

 

Imagine, them making decisions based on what 5 people cry about on daily basis on these forums? If memory serves me right, there was a lot of complaints about quitters in pvp and ppl not caring about wins.

 

Both of these " problems" were heard by Bioware and they came up with the solution : Deserter lock out for quitters and only wins matter if one wants to complete daily weekly... for people to try harder to win.

 

It's what you wanted and you got in the end. Now please live with it and stop complaining.

 

Were they though?

 

I was gone for about a year admittedly, but before that if someone brought up a lock out timer, that idea was pretty readily shot down by other players because of lag and connection issues. It was also usually brought up in conjuncture with selecting WZs. So a player could select where they were going, or remove where they didn't want to go, but if they dropped they got locked.

 

I don't remember anyone, ever, saying that only wins should count. At least, no one that should have been taken seriously.

 

I do remember people making posts about how the number of WZs needed to complete the weekly should be decreased to make it less of a grind. But I doubt the people suggesting that thought that it would go hand in hand with only wins counting.

 

With these changes, the Devs did what they usually do, they took bad ideas and made them worse.

[TrixxieTriss]

Have to agree with Darius here. The only time I remember lock out timers being discussed was if we also had the ability to choose maps to queue for. That’s the only time lockouts make sense to stop rage quitters.

 

It’s like saying we all asked for a matchmaking system for Regs. When in fact the request was to have cross faction queues and limit healer / tank stacking and put premade’s against premades.

Instead we got broken match making (that doesn’t work) at the same time they added cross faction queues.

At the time, people started blaming cross faction as the problem instead of the broken arse match making. Which I also pointed at out was the problem and got shouted down. Now it seems some of those same people have finally twigged that it doesn’t work (only 2 years too late).

 

And some people did ask for a system that made Wins only count. But I don’t remember it being linked to missions. My recollection was to make it only count towards rewards for gear to make people try and win. And I will admit, that at the time, that sounded like it might work.

 

I will admit I was partially wrong and made a mistake. But in my defence and others, we didn’t mean doing it to missions (at least I didn’t). We also offered a holistic approach that offered other changes to go along with the idea of making wins only count towards rewards. Sadly, Bioware pick apart good ideas players have and apply them out of context or piece meal without seeing the bigger picture. A lot of the good ideas that people present only work if you adopt the whole idea. It never works when you take part of an idea that sounds good and rip out the part that balances it. You then end up with a mess.

 

So, while some of what’s been said by David is partially “true from a certain point of view”, the problem is Biowares lack of two way dialogue. They may read the forums and see something they decide that might work. But they don’t talk to us about it and fall into these pit falls of only partially implementing the idea and it’s unbalanced. Most probably because they don’t understand the idea fully and they don’t bother to reach out and discuss it to flesh out the pros and cons of such a change.

 

At the end of the day, the blame falls squarely on Bioware and their lack of proper community involvement and two way communication. If they did that, then so many of the stupid, “shoot your self in the foot” mistakes could have been avoided over the years. And that’s not just on the pvp side, that’s the whole game.

Edited January 19, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[cagthehack]

Let me make a correction here: you can still group queue in BG in WOW. Just not a large group..5 and under. And of course, players have figured out how to get around that.

 

That said, the permade issue has been part of this game (and others) forever. I've gotten used to it now. But not rewarding for loosing is just stupid. That means, if I face a premade, and have no chance at all in winning, I get nothing for my time,. Not even fun, because I an basically a doormat for the game. That's messed up. And it will lead to fewer players going into pvp. It will.

 

This needs to change . PVP has always been toxic (in every game). But for those that cross the line, then enforce your rules. BW, you don't do that. Reporting a player is pointless and I don't even bother anymore. I just add them to my ignore list (which is huge by the way).

Edited January 19, 2021 by cagthehack

[EllieAnne]

I don't know how this would work but what if you had a group large enough (let's say more than 4 for 8v8, more than 2 for 4v4) then they get split between the two teams? So you're in the same WZ but may be playing against your group members.

[DariusCalera]

I don't know how this would work but what if you had a group large enough (let's say more than 4 for 8v8, more than 2 for 4v4) then they get split between the two teams? So you're in the same WZ but may be playing against your group members.

 

I would see it as a recipe for win trading.

[Nickodemous]

I have stayed out of this for various reasons but there are a few things I would like to say:

 

1) Welcome back BOB! I have always enjoyed reading your posts. Why? Because you and I have a similar point of few in regards to a lot of the topics here on these pvp forums. In this thread, I agree with you that players should not be rewarded for losses nor should the temp ban be lifted for unranked. I really have been enjoying myself on SS over the past few months and I truly believe the changes are working as intended.

 

2) I have read in this thread, several times, that ranked needs to just go away. Be dissolved more or less. Why? Although I don't play the amount I used too in ranked, the matches I have played this season have been quite pleasant. Yes ranked has its issues from time to time but so does unranked. There have been and always will be "bad seeds"!

 

3) As for rewards, I don't care whatsoever about the crates. My toons are all well geared and, to be honest, the only thing I look for are the 350+ pwr mods. I do care about winning though and helping my teams get those wins. I do like a good challenge, why I pug and enjoy seeing those ever dreaded premades.

 

4) I do honestly want to see the valor cap raised. As Sappharane pointed out, I did create a thread in regards to this. I would be more than happy to have valor points count again for a new title vs those worthless crates. Also, in that thread, it was suggested that a "valor" vendor be created with various skins, weapon shells, etc. What could be purchased off of the vendor would be based on your level. That would interest me quite a bit. I think the players who truly enjoy pvp need to be rewarded for their effort and time spent.

 

I am going to tell you all a little secret about how I am able to complete the pvp weekly with 3 to 4 different toons a week. At the beginning of each conquest week I pick one toon that I am going to focus on getting the 10 wins to complete it (0-10). Then I have 2-3 other toons that are already sitting at 5-7 wins (these are super easy to complete). Once the weeklies are finished up, I set up 2-3 more toons for the next week (those with 5-7 wins). Then I start it all over again at the start of the next conquest.

 

It is not very hard to complete the weeklies people!

[bncsmom]

Yep, I'm done with PvP now, too.

 

Last night I queued for a match to try to get the points for the weekly conquest for unranked and discovered this was already in effect. The worst part about it, though? The Hypergate match was NOT a true match! It was a bunch of people taking a fight to a far corner of the map, leaving two people on one team to take both pylons. I was the only person on my team playing the objectives and when I mentioned it in ops chat, nobody commented.

 

THIS is what you've done to PvP by making the unranked missions only award points for wins. It's encouraging win trading. Those of us not in groups that are able to dominate the match are basically scr...I won't type the rest of the word out, but I'm sure you understand what I mean.

 

Please change it back! At least let those of us on the perpetually losing teams have *something* to keep us coming back!

[bncsmom]

 

To BIOWARE: REMOVE PVP unranked deserter lockout ! and change it so premades cant que for unranked matches ! This IS LONG OVERDUE !

 

 

No, removing premades from unranked is not the answer. Your "solution" would mean my husband and I would NEVER queue again, because we will not be on teams against one another. I'm sure there are other couples with this opinion. They could change it so that premades only ever get into the 4v4's. Totally excluding some people's ability to play with their families and friends rather than against them just because you don't like that they were grouped before the match started is not the solution to this problem.

Edited January 19, 2021 by bncsmom

[TrixxieTriss]

No, removing premades from unranked is not the answer. Your "solution" would mean my husband and I would NEVER queue again, because we will not be on teams against one another. I'm sure there are other couples with this opinion. They could change it so that premades only ever get into the 4v4's. Totally excluding some people's ability to play with their families and friends rather than against them just because you don't like that they were grouped before the match started is not the solution to this problem.

 

I’ve suggested a compromise in the past that they limit the size of premades to two. That way people can still play with a friend or significant other.

It would also make it much easier for the match making to balance a bunch of two man premades in games instead of trying to balance 4 man premades vs pugs.

Edited January 20, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[supertimtaf]

I’ve suggested a compromise in the past that they limit the size of premades to two. That way people can still play with a friend or significant other.

It would also make it much easier for the match making to balance a bunch if two man premades in games instead of trying to balance 4 man premades vs pugs.

 

Another would be to ensure that if there is a possibility, to not allow multiple groups to be in the same team. So you wouldn't have the typical case of two group of 4players against a team full of only pugs.

 

The issue of premade would definitely lessen if there was also more players in PvP at all time. Currently that's not the case, and the PvP population is quite low, to not say dangerously low on some servers, meaning that you're likely to encounter the same players again and again.

 

We had that case before the last merge, on one FR server, were we had a guild queue in a group of 4 against our guild in a group of 4, + roughly 8 players splitted in both teams. As soon as one guild stopped playing, then you could say goodbye to procs for the night. And we would also always see the same 16 peoples playing PvP. Because it was that low of a population.

 

Maybe if you guys keep seeing the same premades again and again, then the issue comes more from PvP Playrates rather than premades in the first place. Or simply the matchmaking that is just borked. Both are possible at the same time as well.

[TrixxieTriss]

Also consider if there are 4 players who want to premade in the queue and Bioware limit premades to two man, the match making system “should” put one premade per side. So that each team would have a two man Premade.

Which is obviously more fair than what happens now when you have a 4 man premade on one team vs a full team of pugs.

 

It would also allow for the match making system to work better than it does now. Which I think everyone wants to happen from regs to ranked. But that can only happen with more players in the queue and that will only happen if Bioware walk back some of the latest changes around legacy deserter lockouts and win only mission completion that are driving people away from pvp.

[KendraP]

I only play pvp these days when I have 3 or 4 people on and can both bypass the crappy players and basically guarantee a win even though we get matched with literal garbage.

 

No point playing a match if you're going to lose it, the playerbase has gone to... well not a good place, and quitting an artificially prolonged match gets you a lockout.

 

No thanks. I have better things to do with my time. Like literally anything. Even the 500000000th hammer station is better than pvp without my crew in its current state.

[bncsmom]

I’ve suggested a compromise in the past that they limit the size of premades to two. That way people can still play with a friend or significant other.

It would also make it much easier for the match making to balance a bunch of two man premades in games instead of trying to balance 4 man premades vs pugs.

 

And when our kids are logged in and the four of us want to play together, not against one another? What then?

 

Excluding the currently allowed 4-man is not the solution to this problem, nor is making regs win only for the missions. Both will make it even more toxic, and perhaps even make it disappear altogether.