Why I'm done with PvP

[TrixxieTriss]

And when our kids are logged in and the four of us want to play together, not against one another? What then?

 

Excluding the currently allowed 4-man is not the solution to this problem, nor is making regs win only for the missions. Both will make it even more toxic, and perhaps even make it disappear altogether.

 

I don’t know what to say. Except what happens to people who have 3 or 5 kids and can’t group in a 4 man with them and their partner?

 

Obviously my suggestion isn’t a perfect solution for everyone, but a “compromise” to address a larger issue than your family of 4 wanting to play on the same team.

 

Obviously a work around for you and your family would be to put one kid on each team or put the two kids together to go against you two

 

And please explain how reverting the win only measure would make pvp more toxic than it already is or kill it further? That part of your argument makes zero sense.

Edited January 20, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[DariusCalera]

I am going to tell you all a little secret about how I am able to complete the pvp weekly with 3 to 4 different toons a week. At the beginning of each conquest week I pick one toon that I am going to focus on getting the 10 wins to complete it (0-10). Then I have 2-3 other toons that are already sitting at 5-7 wins (these are super easy to complete). Once the weeklies are finished up, I set up 2-3 more toons for the next week (those with 5-7 wins). Then I start it all over again at the start of the next conquest.

 

It is not very hard to complete the weeklies people!

 

Awesome, and it took me about two dozen WZs/Arenas to complete the last 3 wins I needed for my last weekly which in turn took more than two weeks to complete.

 

Perhaps the RNG matchmaker likes you more than me.

[Nickodemous]

Awesome, and it took me about two dozen WZs/Arenas to complete the last 3 wins I needed for my last weekly which in turn took more than two weeks to complete.

 

Perhaps the RNG matchmaker likes you more than me.

 

Awesome....I don't have this problem! Sorry you are having such a difficult time in unranked!

 

The problem that I have with the whole premade, anti lock out, not rewarding a loss deal is....there seems to be a handful of you beating these drums. A handful does not...sorry...represent the whole. So don't misconstrue your thoughts on things and twist them into this some gigantic player base belief. It really not. Sorry! I do not agree with you!

 

Ironically, I was able to play many matches this evening. I did not have a problem with a queue pop....in fact they were getting thrown out like candy! I also did not have a problem with premades....I won some and lost some....kinda how pvp is supposed to go? Right? I did not see any throwers that put me in a tizzy to make me want to leave! I did not worry about a lock out because I never considered leaving.

 

I only won 4 matches tonight on the toon I am trying to push to finish the weekly! Heck, I don't care.....I will tell u all...it will be my next valor 100! Why this toon is being picked!

 

Funny, I did not think the premades prevented me from losing! Their TEAM was better! As I said, I never contemplated leaving! Also, I am not personally wrecked because I did not win every match so I could complete the ever so difficult weekly.

 

You see, regardless of your difficulties and hardship (which no one likes hurt feelings).....I just don't see it. Sorry....but there are those who were ment to pvp...then there are the others. The pvp regs are not flooding these pvp forums complaining. Just the handful in this thread.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Nickodemous

[KendraP]

Is there a problem with rewarding participation, which helps keep a healthy player base, while simultaneously discouraging farming via method like my suggested up the ratio from the old 2:1 to 4:1? This is easily adjustable, easy to understand, easy to apply, and has little to no downside.

 

I'm sorry, but the "win or go screw yourself" (and by the way, I hope you didn't want to leave the match where your team was being farmed in huttball while the dominating team refused to score or let you score so the match went on the full length) mentality was not a positive one.

[TrixxieTriss]

Is there a problem with rewarding participation, which helps keep a healthy player base, while simultaneously discouraging farming via method like my suggested up the ratio from the old 2:1 to 4:1? This is easily adjustable, easy to understand, easy to apply, and has little to no downside.

 

I'm sorry, but the "win or go screw yourself" (and by the way, I hope you didn't want to leave the match where your team was being farmed in huttball while the dominating team refused to score or let you score so the match went on the full length) mentality was not a positive one.

 

Kendra, he’s just trolling, just ignore him. I rarely, if ever see him post anything supportive for making pvp better in this game. It’s always a back handed post with the underlying message that everyone needs to get better because he has no issues. Imagine the QQ when there’s no one left to get fast enough pops for him.

[supertimtaf]

Also consider if there are 4 players who want to premade in the queue and Bioware limit premades to two man, the match making system “should” put one premade per side. So that each team would have a two man Premade.

 

Then you end up with one team purposely throwing the game so that the other can get a win for its weekly. Then next game, they reverse it. And again. And again. That's more or less called wintrading. Ranked doesn't allow this, and I don't think that allowing premades to wintrade in regs could be good.

 

Maybe adding more players to the queue and making sure that there is always a premade against another is good ?

I don't know but... That solves the issue for me and makes everyone happy because they can all play with their friends/family/dog/cat/whatever in a group of 4 just like before.

 

Most of this issue is centered around not having enough players/not having enough skilled players in PvP. I think we've all agreed on this in the past. If you have a decent explanation for why preventing more players to play PvP is a good idea however, I am all in for listening. But currently must say that I fail to see the good in your argument.

 

You're beginning to sound like Bioware, Trixx, carefull there with proposing band-aid solutions that will lead to more issues down the road

[lord-angelus]

I don’t know what to say. Except what happens to people who have 3 or 5 kids and can’t group in a 4 man with them and their partner?

 

Obviously my suggestion isn’t a perfect solution for everyone, but a “compromise” to address a larger issue than your family of 4 wanting to play on the same team.

 

Obviously a work around for you and your family would be to put one kid on each team or put the two kids together to go against you two

 

And please explain how reverting the win only measure would make pvp more toxic than it already is or kill it further? That part of your argument makes zero sense.

 

Yea let's just screw around everyone who plays with the team, for pleasing few clowns! Seriously how dare they play with team in MMO.

[Sebastianne]

There needs to be matchmaker changes for sure. There are a lot of players who just perform very well on most, if not all of their classes, most of them have friends in multiple guilds as they have become very social within the game and outside of it through discord, etc. Many people scream about killing premades but it would definitely kill the point of an MMO, period. But on the other aspect of it, I totally understand just losing game after game despite not being complete garbage and queueing solo because your normal friends haven't been able to be online currently. This game is meant to be social and if you do not like it, make friends or more friends.

 

The matchmaker should pair premades against premades, maybe not the same ones on repeat otherwise it's just the same one losing to the better one; it also should NEVER put multiple premades on the same team unless it can do the same on the opposite side. It happens fairly often where both premades are put on one side and it leads to complete annihilation of the enemy team (of PUGs) despite their best efforts, even with good players on the other side.

 

I would also recommend changes to deathmatches for regs where if there is an uneven number at the start with no backfill from someone leaving or not taking the pop, it randomly kills a player, possibly the one class the enemy side doesn't have. If one person backfills dead and has to wait so should the other side.

 

It doesn't like to time out the match with only one player missing, and during slow pops I am not sure I want it to; but, it almost always means a loss for those players and I am not sure that is a fair situation. For regs deathmatches, it seems like a more than fair solution to have to sit out, maybe get an option to spectate and move around so you can play better if it fills for the next round and help guide your team.

[DariusCalera]

Kendra, he’s just trolling, just ignore him. I rarely, if ever see him post anything supportive for making pvp better in this game. It’s always a back handed post with the underlying message that everyone needs to get better because he has no issues. Imagine the QQ when there’s no one left to get fast enough pops for him.

 

Yeah, I got that after his second post.

 

I've yet to see BW make a decision concerning PvP that actually brought players back to PvPing. I guess the closest might have been the cross faction ques but I'm not certain.

 

Ove the life of the game, there has been a constant decline in the number of PvPers. Some of that, undoubtedly, is due to just atrophy that is natural. I've been PvPing in this game since right after it came out and this is the worst that I've ever seen with players not sticking around and new players not even giving it a shot.

 

A lock out timer on it's own may have been doable. The change to wins only might have been doable on it's own.

 

But both together? Nope.

 

At least in GSF if you get stuck with a bad team and get rolled you at least make a bit of headway and so a reason to stay in the match.

 

Now, in WZs/Arenas, there's no reason to stay in the match and the deserter debuff isn't actually enough to keep people in.

[Nickodemous]

Kendra, he’s just trolling, just ignore him. I rarely, if ever see him post anything supportive for making pvp better in this game. It’s always a back handed post with the underlying message that everyone needs to get better because he has no issues. Imagine the QQ when there’s no one left to get fast enough pops for him.

 

Ouch! Somewhat deserved because my last post was intended to be back handed! I was simply trying to let people know how I have been knocking out weeklies and I get a snarky post in return.

 

Lets be real here for a second and honestly evaluate what was said: "Awesome, and it took me about two dozen WZs/Arenas to complete the last 3 wins I needed for my last weekly which in turn took more than two weeks to complete." Who is trolling who here?

 

With that being said, just because we never see eye to eye trixx does not mean I am trolling. It just means I don't agree.

 

EDIT: These are the type of comments though I expected. Why I had intended to stay out of this thread.....but like a DA....I dove right in.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Nickodemous

[KendraP]

EDIT: These are the type of comments though I expected. Why I had intended to stay out of this thread.....but like a DA....I dove right in.

 

In my case, I have respected things you have said in the past, though we disagree on solo ranked (and no, im not going to get into that can of worms).

 

I am merely pointing out that I keep reading 2 things:

 

1. Make it back exactly the way it was

2. Its better now! Losers don't deserve a prize

 

And attempting to point out that, in unranked PvP, there are many variables including a matchmaking system that I doubt even BW properly understands, and thus, maybe a middle ground between these two extremes should be given preference.

 

Not directed at you: this is what you get, BW, for only listening to dedicated sycophants in an unofficial discord.

[supertimtaf]

Not directed at you: this is what you get, BW, for only listening to dedicated sycophants in an unofficial discord.

 

What's that with the unofficial discord and peoples yelling on it. Because that wasn't here last time I was around.

 

This is a genuine question, better clarify this before peoples say that I'm trolling too.

[JediMasterAlex]

What's that with the unofficial discord and peoples yelling on it. Because that wasn't here last time I was around.

 

This is a genuine question, better clarify this before peoples say that I'm trolling too.

 

Pretty sure they're referring to the theorycrafter discord. I don't recall anyone specifically requesting lockouts for regs, or really anything for regs. Nearly all the pvp feedback on there relates to ranked.

[Nickodemous]

In my case, I have respected things you have said in the past, though we disagree on solo ranked (and no, im not going to get into that can of worms).

 

I am merely pointing out that I keep reading 2 things:

 

1. Make it back exactly the way it was

2. Its better now! Losers don't deserve a prize

 

And attempting to point out that, in unranked PvP, there are many variables including a matchmaking system that I doubt even BW properly understands, and thus, maybe a middle ground between these two extremes should be given preference.

 

Not directed at you: this is what you get, BW, for only listening to dedicated sycophants in an unofficial discord.

 

Na Kendra, we cool! I am not upset with Trixxie either, she was right....It was 100% intended to be back handed. Should not have let the passive aggressiveness roll off the fingers. I was honestly trying to help people out though.

 

What irritates me though is all this "I am done", "I quit", "queues dying", "reg pvp going to die of for casuals", "toxic pvp", mumbo jumbo. So, currently 7307 people have read this thread and if I was a new player/PVE'er reading this I would certainly avoid the dumpster fire that is consistently portrayed also.

 

Just throwing this out there, but there is a lot more too people not trying out pvp, or avoiding it all together, than the changes the devs made. It could, quite possibly be also, the constant barrage of negativity about pvp, by pvpers, in the pvp forums. Could we, as pvp'ers, not be a contributor to the lack of participation? Things that make u go hmmm right?

 

Lets say the devs bow down and revert the changes back to the way they were:

 

1) queue pops

2) log into match

3) people observe who on team and opposing team

4) leaving begins (no lockout)

5) start at a disadvantage and pray to the SWTOR gods that you get some good backfill to help

6) get rolled

7) receive that 1 gimme participation point for playing (only have 19 more to go yay!!)

 

Just no....I could not imagine going back to this or why anyone would support going back to it. It makes no sense to me. Actually I get it, it the ole wz hop, with no lockout, until I find a group that will get me that win. That is not pvp people....sorry! I just refuse to agree with anyone that thinks reverting the current changes back would be a good idea. I am dug in on this one....lol.

 

The devs do that....these forums would be off and running complaining about the next thing that they thought were unjust. It just how it is. I hate what has happened to dps juggs/guardians.....I don't complain about it daily though.

 

I am glad I am not a dev.....you devs....certainly earn your pay.

[KendraP]

I mean I'm a relatively casual (once fairly hardcore) PvPer who went from PvPing in swtor for probably a couple hours a day to PvPing maybe an hour a week. Sure the primary motivation was guild drama, matchmaking changes, and bad players. But the recent changes just make the experience worse in my opinion.

 

See my example of last weeks' huttball. I got stuck with 7 people who probably couldn't reason their way out of a wet paper bag IRL, the opposing team was roflstomping, but to prolong my agony, they refused to score more than 2 points (they very easily could have won this is about 2 minutes).

 

Sure I've won as much or more than I've lost. That was always true, however.

 

And the bad players are not exclusive to PvP. I had an EV SM I ran where the group enraged the annhilator Droid (so I swapped my tank to dps and vigi tanked), then we had 3 people die in the fire on gharj, no one at the N node would click for the puzzle (I was thr only one clicking at S), no less than 3 people somehow managed to die to their boss in the 1v1 room, and 5 people died falling off platforms on soa (including both our healers at different times).

 

Or a DF sm I did just the other day, I was explaining everything after the entire group minus myself and my friend got punted off the first bridge by the adds you spawn in near (I was on my healer). I say "hey don't stand in fire" sure enough, 2 guys stand in fire. I say "hey don't stand in the middle of lightning fingers in the 2nd phase". 4 guys die to lightning fingers.

 

But dragging these idiots through to the end at least gets me a cq cap. In PvP, I better somehow find a way to 1 man army 8 other players or I get nothing for my troubles.

 

I too hate what guardian dps have become in PvP and that is a factor in my lack of enjoyment as well.

Edited January 21, 2021 by KendraP

[TrixxieTriss]

Ouch! Somewhat deserved because my last post was intended to be back handed! I was simply trying to let people know how I have been knocking out weeklies and I get a snarky post in return.

 

Lets be real here for a second and honestly evaluate what was said: "Awesome, and it took me about two dozen WZs/Arenas to complete the last 3 wins I needed for my last weekly which in turn took more than two weeks to complete." Who is trolling who here?

 

With that being said, just because we never see eye to eye trixx does not mean I am trolling. It just means I don't agree.

 

EDIT: These are the type of comments though I expected. Why I had intended to stay out of this thread.....but like a DA....I dove right in.

 

It was the tone and you admit yourself it was meant to be that way. So I’m not sure what else to say.

[Nickodemous]

I mean I'm a relatively casual (once fairly hardcore) PvPer who went from PvPing in swtor for probably a couple hours a day to PvPing maybe an hour a week. Sure the primary motivation was guild drama, matchmaking changes, and bad players. But the recent changes just make the experience worse in my opinion.

 

See my example of last weeks' huttball. I got stuck with 7 people who probably couldn't reason their way out of a wet paper bag IRL, the opposing team was roflstomping, but to prolong my agony, they refused to score more than 2 points (they very easily could have won this is about 2 minutes).

 

Sure I've won as much or more than I've lost. That was always true, however.

 

And the bad players are not exclusive to PvP. I had an EV SM I ran where the group enraged the annhilator Droid (so I swapped my tank to dps and vigi tanked), then we had 3 people die in the fire on gharj, no one at the N node would click for the puzzle (I was thr only one clicking at S), no less than 3 people somehow managed to die to their boss in the 1v1 room, and 5 people died falling off platforms on soa (including both our healers at different times).

 

Or a DF sm I did just the other day, I was explaining everything after the entire group minus myself and my friend got punted off the first bridge by the adds you spawn in near (I was on my healer). I say "hey don't stand in fire" sure enough, 2 guys stand in fire. I say "hey don't stand in the middle of lightning fingers in the 2nd phase". 4 guys die to lightning fingers.

 

But dragging these idiots through to the end at least gets me a cq cap. In PvP, I better somehow find a way to 1 man army 8 other players or I get nothing for my troubles.

 

I too hate what guardian dps have become in PvP and that is a factor in my lack of enjoyment as well.

 

This made me laugh, stupid is was stupid does. Situations, like you have described have happen to me. I let it roll, like water off a ducks back now. The only time I get triggered now is when I get harassed. That when I lose my cool. Otherwise, I give 100% every match, always trying, win or lose. I have accepted that it is impossible to win every match....lol. That was a tough pill to swallow. There was this gigantic thing I had to get over....ego.

[Nickodemous]

It was the tone and you admit yourself it was meant to be that way. So I’m not sure what else to say.

 

All good! You were right girl!

[KendraP]

This made me laugh, stupid is was stupid does. Situations, like you have described have happen to me. I let it roll, like water off a ducks back now. The only time I get triggered now is when I get harassed. That when I lose my cool. Otherwise, I give 100% every match, always trying, win or lose. I have accepted that it is impossible to win every match....lol. That was a tough pill to swallow. There was this gigantic thing I had to get over....ego.

 

Its like not even about my ego. Its about the frustration it induces. If my monitor hadn't put me back $500 I might put a fist through it sometimes trying to deal with these idiots. Is it really that hard to do something other than basic attack?

 

That huttball in particular, let's just say its going to be a while before I choose to do that again. If I PvP from now on, its with my friends in tow. 4 man objective focuses premades seem rare these days.

[TrixxieTriss]

Na Kendra, we cool! I am not upset with Trixxie either, she was right....It was 100% intended to be back handed. Should not have let the passive aggressiveness roll off the fingers. I was honestly trying to help people out though.

 

What irritates me though is all this "I am done", "I quit", "queues dying", "reg pvp going to die of for casuals", "toxic pvp", mumbo jumbo. So, currently 7307 people have read this thread and if I was a new player/PVE'er reading this I would certainly avoid the dumpster fire that is consistently portrayed also.

 

Just throwing this out there, but there is a lot more too people not trying out pvp, or avoiding it all together, than the changes the devs made. It could, quite possibly be also, the constant barrage of negativity about pvp, by pvpers, in the pvp forums. Could we, as pvp'ers, not be a contributor to the lack of participation? Things that make u go hmmm right?

 

Lets say the devs bow down and revert the changes back to the way they were:

 

1) queue pops

2) log into match

3) people observe who on team and opposing team

4) leaving begins (no lockout)

5) start at a disadvantage and pray to the SWTOR gods that you get some good backfill to help

6) get rolled

7) receive that 1 gimme participation point for playing (only have 19 more to go yay!!)

 

Just no....I could not imagine going back to this or why anyone would support going back to it. It makes no sense to me. Actually I get it, it the ole wz hop, with no lockout, until I find a group that will get me that win. That is not pvp people....sorry! I just refuse to agree with anyone that thinks reverting the current changes back would be a good idea. I am dug in on this one....lol.

 

The devs do that....these forums would be off and running complaining about the next thing that they thought were unjust. It just how it is. I hate what has happened to dps juggs/guardians.....I don't complain about it daily though.

 

I am glad I am not a dev.....you devs....certainly earn your pay.

 

You make some good points and I’m not holding any grudges.

 

I don’t totally disagree with your analysis, but we seem to be at odds because you are not willing to find compromises in the current system to make it less harsh for reg and causal players who don’t have the skill levels and luck that you have.

 

I also recognise that there was an issue with the exact example you gave where people would start leaving matches as soon as they saw who was on their team or the opposing team and that was a major issue. And so was and still is the issue of people who don’t try and win or play to win.

 

I’m sure at some point I even suggested lockouts for rage quitting too. But the difference is when I discussed those, they were part of a bigger idea and not an isolated solution. If memory serves (forgive me if it’s cloudy), I’m referring to us also having choice on what maps pop and also Bioware fixing the matchmaking system as well as discussing ways to make it so premades are vs premades, ie possibly slowing down or speeding up the queue to put them against each other or possibly reducing the size of premades to two man.

 

You can look back on my posting history since these latest changes have been made. I’ve said repeatedly that they can keep the character lockout if they think they need a lock out, but they should relax the legacy lock out because that punishment is too harsh for regs. My reasons are documented, but I’ll run through a couple.

 

1. Matchmaking is broken or doesn’t work enough under too many situations. This includes against low pop situations where you can get constantly put against the same premades in arena. Obviously that’s a population issue. But there are many other match making issues too (which I won’t go into) in both regs and ranked which I don’t think regs players should be penalised for if the system isn’t working.

 

2. Disconnects, ping spikes, bad desync are all out of the players control. But if you DC, the game can’t tell the difference and hits you with a legacy wide deserter lockout out. Other games that have lock outs can tell if it’s a DC or not and don’t lock you out. Other games also don’t impose a lock out on all your characters for something beyond your control.

 

3. Map choice. This goes beyond what maps you like or don’t like because many are bugged or get stuck in a pop rotation or have excessive desync for some players (especially those of us who have high ping). IMO, lockouts are only justified if people have some sort of choice and the maps and desync are fixed. But if Bioware can’t fix them or implement some sort of choice system, then players shouldn’t be penalised across their whole legacy when they get put into those situations.

 

Now as far as the winning for rewards issue, in some ways we are in agreement and have been for awhile. The difference is you see winning for rewards as including missions, which I don’t. But we do agree that unless people have an incentive to win and they don’t try, they shouldn’t get anything for not trying.

 

Once again, my posting history supports the idea that the system needed to change to incentivise people to stop epeening on the scoreboard at the expense of winning.

I also think participation trophies as such aren’t helpful, but I’ve also come around in my thinking that you shouldn’t have any. I think many people play to just participate as much as they play to win. We need participation or the game won’t function, so not giving them something for “showing up”, reduces the number of over players

 

Myself and others have proposed other mechanisms of addressing these issues that aren’t as overly harsh as you win or you get nothing. Which we see is having a negative impact on player numbers, enjoyment and participation. All which lead to worse match making and over all quality.

Some ideas I’ve floated or built on others are :

 

1. Bring back the points system for completing missions, but change the win ratio from 2:1 to 4:1. That means that even if you are extremely unlucky with matchmaking, time poor or any number of other issues, you can still progress the missions and it doesn’t reward people who just afk play because it wouldn’t be time efficient. But it still allows people to feel like a losing match (through no fault of their own) isn’t a complete waste of their time.

 

2. To combat the scoreboard number epeeners who don’t care if they win or the missions, you take away their epeen podium. If they have no where to strut and peacock besides winning, they will play to win at all costs. The way to do that is to make the damage, defence, healing and kills private. Players can still see their own stats so they can track their performance. Of course this only applies to 8 man objective pvp and arena would keep those stats public.

 

3. At the same time as doing number 2, you change how the medal system and objective points system works so that it rewards players for skilled objective or co-op playing. This is where the epeeners could shine and prove they really are good players who deserve a podium to peacock.

 

4. Once you implement all of those 3 ideas together, you can then use the revamped medal / points system to add extra win points (and possibly rewards) to players who excel. So even if someone is on a losing team, they may still get as many points towards their missions (or extra rewards) as someone who wasn’t as good on the winning team. Right there you have an incentive for players on a losing team to not give up and afk if they are behind. It also means if you are unlucky enough to get put on a bad team (which you can’t always solo carry ), you can keep trying your hardest and get rewarded for it and it isn’t a participation trophy.

 

5. Remove the MVP in all of this. It’s only a popularity contest or voting for your friends or premade. It’s out dated and doesn’t represent anything.

 

6. Increase the rewards of gear for winning. This goes without saying that even though Bioware have increased it some, it’s still quicker and better to gear up outside of pvp than in pvp. This winning gear should always be your irating. They could then add renown type boxes for extra rewards on the medal system I proposed. The more medals etc, the more boxes. Losing would give you one of these, but it wouldn’t guarantee you’d always get perfect iRated gear from it (that would be the participation trophy part for those who need it).

 

7. Add some specific pvp related gear to the game for winning. Like Armor sets, crystals or tacticals that are more bis for pvp than pve, but can still be used in both forms for those who are more casual in their game play. Give pvpers access to gear that’s BiS in actual pvp and not force them to play Kai Zykken Bingo or run Ops to get the best gear for pvp.

 

Now, I don’t expect everyone to agree with these ideas (not all of them are mine by the way) and that’s fine and that’s how we nut out problems or find flaws in design. The issue with your argument and a few others is there is no room to compromise or change a system to make it better for the whole community and not just those who play “your” way.

 

We know I could write pages on all of this and have way more to say. But at the end of the day, I just want pvp to work, I want people to have fun playing it in a non toxic environment and I want everyone to feel the love I have had for pvp over the years.

 

The devs have a hard job, I don’t envy the job they have to make pvp work, but it could be made so much easier if they’d opened communication with the players for proper discourse and didn’t only rely on small or no feed back (in often closed channels) that often mirror their opinions. Like the discord channel where only ranked is discussed with them and the mention of regs gets treated like a handicapped child to be mocked.

[TrixxieTriss]

Its like not even about my ego. Its about the frustration it induces. If my monitor hadn't put me back $500 I might put a fist through it sometimes trying to deal with these idiots. Is it really that hard to do something other than basic attack?

 

That huttball in particular, let's just say its going to be a while before I choose to do that again. If I PvP from now on, its with my friends in tow. 4 man objective focuses premades seem rare these days.

 

I feel your pain.

 

It’s even worse outside of primetime (if you can believe that) because there’s not enough people queuing to seperate you from those people. Then it gets exacerbated if it’s only popping arena and you are expected to carry 3 of them constantly against a premade or people who are all obviously better than them, but maybe not quite as good as you.

 

This is where it would be good to have a view of our hidden reg ELO to compare if the system is working, broken or faulty by premise.

 

I also feel that lvl 75 is worse in skill than lowbies and Mids for some reason. I have better Hutt ball matches in lowbies than I ever do at lvl 75.

Edited January 21, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[KendraP]

I feel your pain.

 

It’s even worse outside of primetime (if you can believe that) because there’s not enough people queuing to seperate you from those people. Then it gets exacerbate if it’s only popping arena and you are expected to carry 3 of them constantly against a premade or people who are all obviously better than them, but maybe not quite as good as you.

 

This is where it would be good to have a view of our hidden reg ELO to compare if the system is working, broken or faulty by premise.

 

I also feel that lvl 75 is worse in skill than lowbies and Mids for some reason. I have better Hutt ball matches in lowbies than I ever do at lvl 75.

 

I unfortunately believe its working, and that there are just so few of us that could avoid stabbing ourselves with our own lightsaber that it comes down to who gets stuck with the most of these idiots.

 

But as you mentioned, it won't change because the only group BW cares to listen to participate in a discord full of NiM or ranked running sycophants who consider competent yet casual by choice players beneath them, which is why I assume there has been nothing for the casual endgame player since what, 6.0 launch being generous?

[TrixxieTriss]

Pretty sure they're referring to the theorycrafter discord. I don't recall anyone specifically requesting lockouts for regs, or really anything for regs. Nearly all the pvp feedback on there relates to ranked.

 

Which is sad because there can be no proper discourse with ChrisS about reg pvp. Which is part of the issue I think because if regs is brought up, it’s quickly derided as not mattering. Which is why people think Bioware only care about ranked and not the rest of the pvp community. And part of the problem people have around the discord communication is really a perception issue.

 

1. Because it’s not officially run, so the mods get to choose who the “in crowd” is or if they have a beef with you personally, they boot you, like Riku did to me. It comes across as bullying and elitism.

 

2. I think open discussion with the devs on discord is a good thing as long as it’s not an eco chamber because people don’t want to lose access to the devs.

 

3. It would be excellent if the players had unbiased access to the devs on an official discord and the devs communicated like they do in the theory crafting one. That would eliminate the perception of elitism.

 

4. I also understand it would be challenging for Bioware to do because ChrisS / Devs might not be able to be as casual on an official Discord.

 

5. Sadly, while ever you have gate keepers to private discords like the before mentioned person who are biased towards people they personally don’t like, then you are going to have this perception issue that Bioware are only listening to the elitists in that discord.

 

Wether that’s true or a fair assessment, I can’t say, but surely you can see why some people think and feel that way.

 

And for the record. I don’t want ChrisS to stop posting there. I’m happy and glad that he does. I just wish the rest of us had the same access as you do.

Edited January 21, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

I unfortunately believe its working, and that there are just so few of us that could avoid stabbing ourselves with our own lightsaber that it comes down to who gets stuck with the most of these idiots.

 

But as you mentioned, it won't change because the only group BW cares to listen to participate in a discord full of NiM or ranked running sycophants who consider competent yet casual by choice players beneath them, which is why I assume there has been nothing for the casual endgame player since what, 6.0 launch being generous?

 

The issue isn’t the people posting and talking in the discord. There are some really smart and intelligent players who provide great feed back on stuff to Bioware and the community. It’s the gate keepers who get to decide if you are “allowed” to talk to Chris that are the problem or if you are even allowed to be in their presence.

 

I literally asked Chris one innocuous question and got booted because of who I am and not because of what I asked or because I broke any rules or was toxic or argumentative.

 

I do think Chris tries to look at the bigger picture than just ranked or NiM, but he only gets feed back from those people and they don’t care about anything not in their sphere of influence. They get upset if you bring up something outside of their opinions or if you disagree with a development change. So unfortunately, the feed back Chris gets there is a lot like an eco chamber because he doesn’t get a chance to be involved with the rest of the community,

 

I’m hoping with JackieKO coming on board, she is now providing Chris with some other points of view or feedback he will never get on that discord.

And my hope is he will be able to communicate with us more directly here or at least through her. Sadly, I’ve not seen that happen yet, so I’m concerned that she’s fighting an internal up hill battle like every other time someone at Bioware has tried to open up communication on the forums. I hope she is successful, but the longer we go with no two communication coming directly from the devs, the more pessimistic I’m starting to feel again.

[Nickodemous]

Pretty sure they're referring to the theorycrafter discord. I don't recall anyone specifically requesting lockouts for regs, or really anything for regs. Nearly all the pvp feedback on there relates to ranked.

 

Super pissed Nick Is going to love your answer.....cause I am going to call BULL$HIT on everything you have to say.....pick it apart....