PvP and Why It Sucks (As a level 50 Marauder)

[Kitsurugi]

5. Stuns in Combat (From a Marauder's Perspective)[/b]

Speaking of other nonsense, let's talk about stuns. They are incredibly useful in PvE and still useful in PvP. What's not OK (at least from a Marauder standpoint) is how these are used in PvP. Many classes get multiple stuns that will keep a played stunned even if they are taking direct damage. This is BS, total BS.

 

Guess what I can do? I can choke you for 3 seconds, which is a channel, meaning I can't do anything else. If I spend a ton of points I can make my 3 second ravage ability immobilize you during the duration (also a channel.) Hmm. Notice a pattern? I can't stun, cc, or otherwise immobilize you like other (still melee based) classes can. Granted, I do get an AoE stun for 6 seconds.. that wears off if the target takes damage. How is this balance?

 

I get an ability take gets rid of any movement, hold, or stun effect that can be used once every two minutes. In terms of Huttball, that's about.. maybe.. 4 times a match? I have to pick which exact stun I break free from and hope that I don't get chain-stunned by another stun from a class that has multiple ones right away. This needs to stop. There needs to be a stun/hold immunity in PvP.

 

This really is what I find the largest frustration as a marauder. Constant CCs and stun locks destroy all arguments of "OH YOU JUST SUCK AT PVP LULZ LULZ" because for minutes on end Im barely even able to control my character regardless of how smart I play.

 

Eventually these over CCing classes will encounter me and abuse them.

 

Good post 10/10

Edited January 1, 2012 by Kitsurugi

[_Admiral]

Maras suck at PVP.

I rerolled a Sorc.

 

At level 11, I am already blitzing the amount of DPS/Heal/Medals that I got on my level 50 Mara.

[Zotix]

It's true. Sentinels/ Mara's just don't cut it. Sure they can do decently if they have guard on them, and pocket healers but if you are going that route, it would be much better to put that on a bounty hunter and have him kill 8 people. It seriously feels like Bioware didn't even play their own game, this launch is one of the worst I've been a part of in 14 years of MMO's. I just spent 5 minutes stuck in a wall on voidstar, in which we won and I didn't get credit. Getting matched with level 4 level 10's on your team, several of which haven't even promoted against a premade of 50's with 18k life. Fun times. Bad game is bad, and will leak subs harder than any MMO in recently history unless we get some serious patches before the first billing cycle.

[Danjamstan]

op sucks at pvp

[Zotix]

op sucks at pvp

 

You suck at trolling, and discourse. Get lost.

[Munx]

Great post, and you are correct on so many points, I as a marauder myself are seeing alot of the same things you are.

 

A additional thing that anoys me greatly in pvp as a marauder, and that dosnt make sense is the Snipers instacast cover, that seem to have 0 cooldown, the only way to break this is trough stun, something we, like you mentioned have VERY little off

 

And here is the problem, they cannot be charged while using this, not from the front, not from the sides, not from the back, hell not even from above.. But wait, that is not the worst part, they can also not be interupted, not from the front, sides, back or again above.

 

 

One thing that Huttball need is more obstacles on the little bridges, so players are given the option to use them tactically to avoid knockback of the ledge.

 

 

You also barley touched on the subject of Resolve, It is a horrible system, and I have seen the sticky, which is a laughable way for bioware to use a 3rd party to defend a patethic excuse for a anti-stun system.

 

It takes 2 stuns to max out resolve, that is it takes 2 stuns within short time of each other, the duration of these stun seem to have no impact on the resolve build, agent flashbang still wont give you full resolve (which makes no sense considering its duration).

 

Resolve actually starts dropping while the stun is active, the bar wont move until ended, but it is actually dropping.

 

Example: Your resolve bar maxes out during a stun, you use stun breaker, you will have a decent amount of time with 100% resolve.

 

Example2: Your resolve bar maxes out during a stun, you dont use stun breaker, you will have 2-3 seconds tops until the resolve bar once again drops below 100% and you are fair game.

 

Don't even get me started on how little impact Roots/Knockback have on the resolve bar, its absolutely ridicilous considering a knockback/root is more or less the same as a stun for a melee.

[Danjamstan]

If you're having problems with pvp it's because you're not properly understanding your role, class or the warzone. I've got a level 35 sentinel and a 26 merc and own with both of them. I see tons of people in warzones not playing properly, if you're not having fun you're probably one of them. Every class can be good, it just depends on how you play it. Study your class and stop ************. Brackets will be brought in sooner or later and things will get nerfed/bolstered. There's guides for every class somewhere online so study up and don't get your *** kicked.

[Neo-Metalsonic]

After playing for a while it seems that inquisitors seem to be the best class atm in pvp. They got stealth which they can use in combat and got a lot of non channeled abilities and ranged stuns. These are very good for the current warzones (actually just Hutt Ball but likely just as me you only see Hutt Ball ).

 

They got good mobility, good CC and high damage output just a bit lower then snipers, who have the highest damage output in pvp from what I've seen. With Snipers it's okay because they need to use their cooldowns wisely and they always need to be the first one to do his burst to win a 1 vs 1 match.

 

When an inquisitor gets caught off guard it's np just stun him and stealth away to heal up.

 

They really need to change the stealth and add more neutral warzones or just remove Hutt Ball considering it's terribly unbalanced and a lot of classes are simply outdone by other classes.

[Thiussat]

You didn't read in detail what I proposed, and obviously just came in to start trolling. Let me spell it out for you instead. What I'm proposing is that when they are considered 'in-combat' (the red gun icon) that they can still be stealthed, but are detectable and visible within a certain range (sort of like detecting someone who's stealthed and you see a red outline around them).

 

This to me makes perfect sense. After all, why should someone completely vanish mid combat? If I'm in the middle of a saber strike and someone completely vanishes, I'd imagine I could still sense where they are.

 

Same old argument that has been around for ages. WoW has "vanish" for their rogues. Rift has "slip away" and this game has its own version. People on the other MMO forums QQ'ed just as much about vanish and slip away. The QQ was so bad on the Rift forums, that it finally took a nerf, even though it was on a 2 min CD and could be broken by DoTs.

 

This game has it on a 3 min CD (at least for shadows), so I don't think that is OP. I find myself very rarely using it at all in SWTOR.

[mimbs]

marauders are actually an amazing class. any whine about them is unfounded and dumb. why ppl insist on complaining when they are obviously the problem themselves is beyond me. sucking is not the biggest deal in the world, it's just a video game.

[Neo-Metalsonic]

After playing for a while it seems that inquisitors seem to be the best class atm in pvp. They got stealth which they can use in combat and got a lot of non channeled abilities and ranged stuns. These are very good for the current warzones (actually just Hutt Ball but likely just as me you only see Hutt Ball ).

 

They got good mobility, good CC and high damage output just a bit lower then snipers, who have the highest damage output in pvp from what I've seen. With Snipers it's okay because they need to use their cooldowns wisely and they always need to be the first one to do his burst to win a 1 vs 1 match.

 

When an inquisitor gets caught off guard it's np just stun him and stealth away to heal up.

 

They really need to change the stealth and add more neutral warzones or just remove Hutt Ball considering it's terribly unbalanced and a lot of classes are simply outdone by other classes.

[warkat]

There's a 50 imp battlemaster maurder on my server and he shreds people pretty fast. get gear get a decent spec get a naga to keybin ur mouse up and get good.

[NerfHerder]

Before I begin, I'd like to take a moment and talk about the game i

... I've found that other players will avoid PvP even on a PvP server and typically try to go around the others, even if they have a level advantage. This needs to change...

 

Totally agree with the above statement and echo it. Of course, to be fair, the game is still in its infancy and a lot needs to be adjusted.

 

I play on a PVP server as well, and plenty of players avoid PVP. Sith ignoring Jedi in the same dungeon because they want to level. Huh??? That was unheard of if not impossible to do in SWG.

 

Bottom line, there is no reason to PVP except for if you are a true PVPer, yet no reward in open world--at the very least--make dungeons or shared Heroic areas with good rewards where republic and empire vie for the spot. World PVP is basically pointless except to maybe grief and thats even hard with the minority of republic on my server.

 

I just find it so funny that someone in General says: "Jedis spotted at...!" and no one really gives a crap. Maybe an RP server fares better at this than mine. But yeah...at the very least give some valor XP and some coin so we have a mechanic in place to PVP and motivate others to help each other in their faction more.

 

 

I will skip over warzone/huttball comments for a different thread...

[Xenoshark]

I agree and disagree with some of this... but the one I think is worth pointing out:

 

"...if you play the game objectively (scoring the ball for example) you'll end up with less commendations/xp/rewards than someone who just ran around and murdered people."

 

This is the major issue of huttball. I have had games where I cap 5 or 6 times (yes, *every* single cap towards victory was from me being pro - and I'm shield spec trooper, that's no immunities and reliance on charging to higher platforms) yet I get 3 medals and 800 objective points. Some dude who fought in the enemy underbelly pit the entire game gets 9 medals and 2500 objective points (it's as if he attacked the enemy ball carrier once the entire game and every 200 damage was 100 points). You can't guard an ally if there are none nearby providing support in the first place, and as a ball carrier your focus is capping not dishing out damage/healing... It's a flawed PvP game right now but there has been little coverage over the issues (let's not even begin with the global delay/WZ framerates...). This wouldn't be such a major problem, but BioWare has had little news, and it's approaching two week release with no major optimization patch (it's a multi-million dollar dev team, this shouldn't be too demanding IMO unless something is majorly broken - again, they have yet to hint to this, it's EA wanting sales; hell, the game was rushed for Xmas release). Seeing as PvP is literally the endgame right now, they are going to rapidly lose subscribers. You don't let your playerbase sit in the dark, especially when it surpasses 1 million.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Xenoshark

[Ceraz]

There's a 50 imp battlemaster maurder on my server and he shreds people pretty fast. get gear get a decent spec get a naga to keybin ur mouse up and get good.

 

Yeah, because he's probably got max PvP gear so he's taking 20% less damage and dealing 20% more. Any class like that will roflstomp things.

[Ceraz]

Great post, and you are correct on so many points, I as a marauder myself are seeing alot of the same things you are.

 

A additional thing that anoys me greatly in pvp as a marauder, and that dosnt make sense is the Snipers instacast cover, that seem to have 0 cooldown, the only way to break this is trough stun, something we, like you mentioned have VERY little off

 

And here is the problem, they cannot be charged while using this, not from the front, not from the sides, not from the back, hell not even from above.. But wait, that is not the worst part, they can also not be interupted, not from the front, sides, back or again above.

 

 

One thing that Huttball need is more obstacles on the little bridges, so players are given the option to use them tactically to avoid knockback of the ledge.

 

 

You also barley touched on the subject of Resolve, It is a horrible system, and I have seen the sticky, which is a laughable way for bioware to use a 3rd party to defend a patethic excuse for a anti-stun system.

 

It takes 2 stuns to max out resolve, that is it takes 2 stuns within short time of each other, the duration of these stun seem to have no impact on the resolve build, agent flashbang still wont give you full resolve (which makes no sense considering its duration).

 

Resolve actually starts dropping while the stun is active, the bar wont move until ended, but it is actually dropping.

 

Example: Your resolve bar maxes out during a stun, you use stun breaker, you will have a decent amount of time with 100% resolve.

 

Example2: Your resolve bar maxes out during a stun, you dont use stun breaker, you will have 2-3 seconds tops until the resolve bar once again drops below 100% and you are fair game.

 

Don't even get me started on how little impact Roots/Knockback have on the resolve bar, its absolutely ridicilous considering a knockback/root is more or less the same as a stun for a melee.

 

This is a fantastic point. The resolve system is total garbage because it simply doesn't work. It needs to be adjusted so that 1) CC's are still usable in PvP. 2) You can't be stunlocked/chain stunned.

[Ceraz]

If you're having problems with pvp it's because you're not properly understanding your role, class or the warzone. I've got a level 35 sentinel and a 26 merc and own with both of them. I see tons of people in warzones not playing properly, if you're not having fun you're probably one of them. Every class can be good, it just depends on how you play it. Study your class and stop ************. Brackets will be brought in sooner or later and things will get nerfed/bolstered. There's guides for every class somewhere online so study up and don't get your *** kicked.

 

You don't even have half of the class abilities yet.. Please come back when you can contribute to the discussion more maturely as well as informatively.

[Indless]

I also noticed that 40-50 was hell for us, and I totally agree with the pvp, everyone else seems to be a tad bit better than us

 

 

AMEN FOR THIS POST

[Ceraz]

I also noticed that 40-50 was hell for us, and I totally agree with the pvp, everyone else seems to be a tad bit better than us

 

 

AMEN FOR THIS POST

 

Yeah, my buddy who was a Juggernaut just laughed at me as I required medpaks to take a silver on even with a companion sometimes.

[Ceraz]

marauders are actually an amazing class. any whine about them is unfounded and dumb. why ppl insist on complaining when they are obviously the problem themselves is beyond me. sucking is not the biggest deal in the world, it's just a video game.

 

Have you actually played one? Or read my post?

[Vvay]

I agree, nice post

[Seanhazz]

To the OP, you should really spend a lot of time looking at your abilities and what they do; I WZ with an RL friend who is a Marauder, I'm a Sorc (Heals), and we dominate Huttball in particular, but do very well (win % wise) in all WZs...

 

When I play with my Merc friend we're not even close to as effective when trying to play objectively.

 

-Boom

 

This guy has the right idea. Any class with a good TEAMMATE in tow can be un-killable. Ever run into a champion geared/Tank spec Juggernaut with a pocket healer? 2 assassins working together and controlling the top tiers of Huttball?? 2 troopers cross-healing and holding down a node against 4-5 people? letting that BH or other range class sit up high and just nuke is not a reason to call nerf or say pvp is broken.

 

Most of the issues are PUG related. Good teams will steamroll a PUG most of the time.

 

I hate the expression but it serves a purpose. "L2P" with others, and enjoy the game more. They even reward you for playing with others (social points). All of the "heroes" in Star Wars had companions/friends to aid in their success.

[Dr_Mechano]

Everyone forgets about the poor scrapper spec Smuggler.

 

we get:

 

1) CC that requires Out of Combat condition (rare in all but the capture the point PvP match) to work and breaks on damage.

 

2) an 8 second AoE CC on a 90 second timer that breaks on damage.

 

3) a 4 second stun that roots us to use.

 

As far as I can tell (at level 38) we have no knockback abilities.

 

The only thing going for the class is the high burst coming out of Stealth (flechette round, shoot first and, with the target knocked down, Back Blast and possibly quick shot which requires being level 40 before getting that combo) and the fact every 2 minutes (3 if not specced into it) we can make an emergency restealth getaway.

 

So you want to complain about the Marauder go ahead but you can take my restealthing in combat away out of my cold dead hands.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Dr_Mechano

[Furyofwar]

OP: Your entire post is discredited because you are still not aware what resolve is. Therefore until you learn whats actually going on around you and stop being bad. Do not post on our forums thanks.

[depth_mil]

Everyone forgets about the poor scrapper spec Smuggler.

 

we get:

 

1) CC that requires Out of Combat condition (rare in all but the capture the point PvP match) to work and breaks on damage.

 

2) an 8 second AoE CC on a 90 second timer that breaks on damage.

 

3) a 4 second stun that roots us to use.

 

As far as I can tell (at level 38) we have no knockback abilities.

 

The only thing going for the class is the high burst coming out of Stealth (flechette round, shoot first and, with the target knocked down, Back Blast and possibly quick shot) and the fact every 2 minutes (3 if not specced into it) we can make an emergency restealth getaway.

 

So you want to complain about the Marauder go ahead but you can take my restealthing in combat away out of my cold dead hands.

 

All nonstun cc breaks on damage, that doesn't make it bad. You have a stun too - on a lower cd than anyone else even.

 

With flashbang you're complaining about one of the best ccs ingame - it lasts long enough to plant explosives/cap turrets. The kick root is stupid, but it's one of the many silly animation bugs (and is not shared by agents -_-) that will hopefully be fixed soon (hah...).