SWTOR community: What happened?

[benmas]

I do often wonder what server you people are playing on, since it is clearly so common that it happens every flashpoint, pvp, heroic mission etc.

Oh but maybe i'm just lucky that somehow I've barely experienced any of this rampant toxicity everyone goes on about. i could queue a flashpoint now, and it'll be more likely no one talks than someone being toxic.

[Volcinar]

Complacency is what's gotten us into this mess. Bioware needs to hear the noise.

 

So you want BW to come in and start dropping the ban hammer? For what? Person A wipes a group and person B get's upset about it and calls them out in chat. Unless something sexist/racist/etc is said what are they supposed to do about it? Are we talking about political conversations in general chat? Ignore people when they are trolling or spamming. Are we talking about gross fart jokes in general chat? Ignore them.

 

BW provides us with a language filter, an ignore button, and a report spam button.

 

I'm sorry if I'm missing the point, but I don't see what BW can or should actually do here.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Volcinar
addition

[Severith]

If 16-year-old boys with testosterone levels higher than they know what to do with had to pay subscriptions, they couldn't type out all that toxic crap behind the safety of their locked bedroom door, as well as the over-privileged ones using mamma's credit card for a subscription, and a subset of 25-year-olds who basically don't negotiate this world with any more maturity than the sixteen-year-olds.

 

Unfortunately, every game has the above. I only have a FTP account with ESO, and in two hours of playing ESO I don't experience a hundredth of the toxicity that I do in 5 minutes of playing SWTOR.

 

So it's a matter of culture, and that rests with Bioware. Relying on the rest of us to play maturity police has not, does not, and will not work. There's an element missing with SWTOR that allows this toxicity that I just don't see in ESO, STO, or EQ/EQ2.

 

For ESO, the difference in community is very, very simple actually, apart from the apathy Bioware has in terms of it's culture and content.

 

In ESO, your account is linked to all your characters, and that link is visible to everyone. Everything that you do reflects not only on your character, but on your account. You ignore someone? You just ignored their account. You complain about someone? You just complained about their account. Etc.

 

The ESO community is head and shoulders above the SWTOR community, because behavior has consequences in ESO. It's that simple.

[DarkTergon]

So you want BW to come in and start dropping the ban hammer? For what? Person A wipes a group and person B get's upset about it and calls them out in chat. Unless something sexist/racist/etc is said what are they supposed to do about it? Are we talking about political conversations in general chat? Ignore people when they are trolling or spamming. Are we talking about gross fart jokes in general chat? Ignore them.

 

BW provides us with a language filter, an ignore button, and a report spam button.

 

I'm sorry if I'm missing the point, but I don't see what BW can or should actually do here.

 

for one, they can moderate chat, remove the ******s that are griefing, racist, etc, etc. I reported someone who was taking graphically about sex with a minor, that persson is still in game. That's just one case, it happens a lot. Because BW does nothing to stop this, it festers, and grows. People should be allowed to play the game, enjoy the chat, and not get harrassed, or have to witness stuff like this. BW need to drop the ban hammer in game, they are extremely heavy handed here, and have silenced people over stupid little things, yet in game they do nothing.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

In ESO, your account is linked to all your characters, and that link is visible to everyone. Everything that you do reflects not only on your character, but on your account. You ignore someone? You just ignored their account. You complain about someone? You just complained about their account. Etc.

 

This makes so much sense. At the very least let us 'ignore account'. A game as alt friendly as this one makes ignoring players one alt at a time (on only one of your characters at a time too) pretty much useless for avoiding being grouped with players with extremely bad attitudes since all they do is hop on another alt and you're at risk of getting paired with them again.

[Lhancelot]

Poor or zero moderation from Bioware and no deterrent means these idiots can fester and breed more idiots.

It’s been happening in the game since launch and only getting worse as more “normal” players leave and you get a concentration of idiots left.

It will keep snow balling like this because Bioware have terrible policies towards bad behaviours (toxicity, cheating, abuse, trolling, etc) and unless it’s exploiting their precious CM, they really don’t care.

 

Right. ^

 

It just boils down to neglect on BW's part. Neglect runs rampant in every facet of this company it seems.

[Crystal_Mind]

Ever notice how many times people decline when vet FP pops? sometimes it happens 8 times in a row before you get in. sometimes they wait the full time out and waste everyones time.

 

There is NO penalty for declining after the pop happens, and not even for letting it time out.

 

Letting it time out should earn a 20 minute ban from queue. declining should get a 5 minute lockout..

 

I can't agree. Of all the in-game behaviors I could complain about, declining gf-pops isn't even on my radar. I certainly wouldn't call it griefing. The matchmaking queue is a proposed group, and sometimes it throws messed up configs at you. Three healers, two tanks, etc. In a vet fp, that can be a very slow and potentially painful endeavor unless someone respecs (which is an argument waiting to happen). If you queue, and get a config that is clearly going to be a pain, there's nothing wrong with declining.

 

As for time-outs, I have occasionally had a bug where I'm unable to interact with the GF window at all when the queue pops, to accept *or* decline, so I wouldn't want that penalized either. I understand that there's a leaver's penalty if you accept the group and then immediately leave when you get a fp you don't like. That's a good thing. But adding penalties for the initial gf pops? No.

 

I've been fortunate enough to mostly have good experiences with this game's community. When I came back to the game, I found most people in Vet FP PUGs willing to clue me in to things I didn't know as long as I was up front about my ignorance. Maybe 1/5 flashpoints I see behavior I would call 'inconsiderate,' with that ratio going up a bit in this last double-xp event. Actual nastiness I mostly see in GenChat, which is where my ignore button enters the equation.

 

An account-ignore would be nice, though. It may not address the root of the problem (lack of respect for other players as *people*) but it would probably be more effective than what we currently have, since it penalizes the player instead of just the toon.

[Ardrossan]

Right. ^

 

It just boils down to neglect on BW's part. Neglect runs rampant in every facet of this company it seems.

 

Not on the forum. Well, not in the sense that BW is paying attention to it, but it's certainly being policed. Swears are filtered out and unlike in-game that can't be turned off. It's like being forced to type without being able to use the letter M - you wouldn't think it has a big effect but it does.

 

Also you can't be snarky without some precious snowflake deciding you're a threat to their emotional stability and reporting you. Given stuff other people have said on here over the years, I get the impression a lot of us are one or two strikes away from long-term mutes (I'm not on as much but i make up for lost time).

 

Now, do I want MORE of that policing, in-game? lol no. Especially given that what counts as 'toxic' has been poorly defined and explained. I mean, okay, Republic Fleet, DK...I think it's a consensus that we've ceded those areas to the trolls, right? If DK-style chat starts happening on Tat, that's a problem, but despite a SH and two events there, it doesn't happen often.

 

Ranked was toxic. I judge 'toxicity' in this game to Ranked and always come up short. Fortunately, it's pretty much dead now, so ranked pvpers have been sufficiently punished. As for PVE, if something happens in an FP, instead of making one of these vague threads and having us try to guess OP's actual motivation, why not make a post here and turn it into an amusing story: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=633655

[lilathrone]

The moment BioWare chose to put together leveling new players with veterans in flashpoints (possibly in operations but I wouldn't know as I never managed to queue into one) is the moment toxicity began in full scale. Now You have instant flashpoint queues but with players that have different motivations.

 

Also as SW:ToR is story driven, you have one side that is playing for the story, but would like to do it in a group, the other is the elitist mmo farmer that only wants to rush through as fast as possible. If you put them together then you have a conflict.

 

Not to say some level of toxicity weren't there before, I still remember my first Esseles flashpoint, I thought how cool it is that I can run through dungeons with cutscenes with other people, then someone yelled 'SPACEBAAR' which at the moment I was not sure that he is yelling at me (had no idea what spacebar is good for), then moments later I was kicked from the group. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DaZeeZee]

This makes so much sense. At the very least let us 'ignore account'. A game as alt friendly as this one makes ignoring players one alt at a time (on only one of your characters at a time too) pretty much useless for avoiding being grouped with players with extremely bad attitudes since all they do is hop on another alt and you're at risk of getting paired with them again.

 

Yeah, our friends and ignore list system is practically useless since its per character only. community problems are with players, not characters.

[killdozerone]

Recently returned to SW:ToR, it's kinda hit and miss for me, same as before I left. I mostly run veteran FP pugs and my experience so far:

 

-Though the game has 23 flashpoints, the amount of athiss, hammer station, taral V popping is nonsensical.

-Ppl running through this flashpoint like they want to break the world record, skipping all mobs, even bosses when possible and oh boy if you screw up one time and pull a group because You did not fit into that 1 cm line you are supposed to go through, then hell is unleashed upon you in chat.

-Lots of leavers. One wipe -> they say something like (omg...) and leave.

-If someone don't immediately skip all the cutscenes, then spam "SKIP SKIP OMG SPACEEE". Like their life is so busy and important , that extra 2 minutes is no way..

On the positive side though, I had my share of fun runs as well, there was one where we were helping 2 newbies and carried them through a flashpoint as intended (no skipping 99% of the mobs ) and also met a lot of friendly veterans / newbies who understands that the purpose of flashpoints is to have fun.

 

Let me say pugging a WoW M+ is way worse, but in all mmos if You want to avoid toxicity try to get friends / guild to run group content with. If You know any mmo where all the players are friendly even if you scr** up, please let me know ...

 

Nailed it here. Don’t do FP unless you’re ready to skip every conceivable mob(which defeats the purpose of Xp boosts), skip every cutscene, and know all the shortcuts. I guess it’s like PVP you have to be in a certain mindset to solo queue.

If you want to socialize I would suggest joining a guild that likes to take their time because these randoms always have places to be(lol not).

But you’re right about the WoW thing that game is WAY more toxic in all areas really.

[DaZeeZee]

I played WoW in legion. if WoW is more toxic that was a recent development.

[AceMasterSoul]

I'll be honest. Most of the toxicity I've come across have been with people trying to speed run the FP. when I'm with a group of people just playing the game for fun instead of material/credit farming I don't have any issues. Edited July 13, 2020 by AceMasterSoul

[xordevoreaux]

, then someone yelled 'SPACEBAAR' which at the moment I was not sure that he is yelling at me (had no idea what spacebar is good for), then moments later I was kicked from the group. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

That person was either 12 or the next road rage instigator who'll splat himself and a family of five all over the highway.

[lilathrone]

I played WoW in legion. if WoW is more toxic that was a recent development.

 

To be fair I played Mythic+ dungeons there which is one of the most diffcult end game content and here I only ran veteran flashpoints since I got back . MM flashpoints or operations might be an entirely different story.

[CaptRogue]

If 16-year-old boys with testosterone levels higher than they know what to do with had to pay subscriptions, they couldn't type out all that toxic crap behind the safety of their locked bedroom door, as well as the over-privileged ones using mamma's credit card for a subscription, and a subset of 25-year-olds who basically don't negotiate this world with any more maturity than the sixteen-year-olds.

 

Lets see, on SS the most toxic trolls are/were 45yr old+ men. (1 I am not sure of age. ) And btw, they run guilds; large guilds. *smh*

The rest fall into the college age group that I've seen. Very immature, idiots, one wrong move & they kick you. No tolerance for anything. Expect everyone to min/max their class & know the workings of it 100% for either solo ranked or NiM runs. Flex their cheevos in chat or in whispers...

[Primeconvoy]

To be fair I played Mythic+ dungeons there which is one of the most diffcult end game content and here I only ran veteran flashpoints since I got back . MM flashpoints or operations might be an entirely different story.

 

MMFP's are completely different story. With MMFP's, all players are level 75, properly geared and experienced with said FP. in VET FP's rage comes naturally because a) there is no tank to lead the group, and b) having no heals means possibly many wipes...and people don't like that. But, with MMFP's, all groups are appropriately balanced with a tank and a healer and the content (let's be honest here) isn't much harder because you have a tank and a healer, and a group of like-minded experienced players. So, if you want to avoid the drama of rage-quitters and the QQing that comes with wipes, simply queue up for MM dungeons. I did this most of last night and had one of the best experiences playing any MMO in a long time...and I've played FFXIV, WOW, STO and ESO...as well as DDO.

[MagicTerror]

Bioware are the people who work there. So yeah, it’s their fault

 

I don't believe it, Bioware might have the minds working on the game, but EA's still the buyer with the purse strings who tells their painters what to paint at the end of the day.

 

If they decide the team shouldn't be devoting billable hours to micro things that *might* make sure the game doesn't have a tumor mass of immature idiots in it's social hub or random dungeons, then that's the rub. They seem more concerned with marketing and milking the Star Wars Brand (which is the real problem in my eyes, too many complete ******es who you'd never play on the playground with only seem to flock to the game because of the brand and they do nothing but treat it like their own personal virtual comicon all day) until their contract with Disney runs out than making sure any product based on it is actually good or pleasant to play.

 

I don't believe they're going to give a penny of their big game-producer money to fix things like this. It's awful to me too, but I doubt I would either if I was in their shoes. If it's Bioware's fault in any way, it would be because they can't come up with a clear solution to that problem that would provide a direct profit to EA's bottom line. Remember: It's all about money.

[jedimasterjac]

I've been doing a lot of MMFPs lately on my new Shadow tank. I'm a little bit insecure about my capabilities, but I'm competent enough.

 

Anyway, I've run into a lot of toxic healers lately who make me feel much less comfortable tanking. Healers rushing ahead, saying rude/demeaning things in chat, etc.

[DaZeeZee]

I've been doing a lot of MMFPs lately on my new Shadow tank. I'm a little bit insecure about my capabilities, but I'm competent enough.

 

Anyway, I've run into a lot of toxic healers lately who make me feel much less comfortable tanking. Healers rushing ahead, saying rude/demeaning things in chat, etc.

 

A lot of people who play healer dont do it becuase they have any intention of being a decent healer or being nice or a team player sadly.

[xordevoreaux]

I've been doing a lot of MMFPs lately on my new Shadow tank. I'm a little bit insecure about my capabilities, but I'm competent enough.

 

Anyway, I've run into a lot of toxic healers lately who make me feel much less comfortable tanking. Healers rushing ahead, saying rude/demeaning things in chat, etc.

 

Send them this

[DarkTergon]

Send them this

 

Love it, God (you) has selected them for extinction .....pmsl

[Lhancelot]

Flex their cheevos in chat or in whispers...

 

bro u know you impressed! *flexes cheevos*

[CaptRogue]

bro u know you impressed! *flexes cheevos*

 

Oh yes, that timed Dxun run. *rolls eyes* Definitely means business & they good....NOT. lol

[eabevella]

I'll be honest. Most of the toxicity I've come across have been with people trying to speed run the FP. when I'm with a group of people just playing the game for fun instead of material/credit farming I don't have any issues.

 

Agree. I'd take three low level players who are new to the game but willing to work together than one high level player who rush everything like they are half hour late to their blood family's funeral. I hate rushing, especially rushing that involves lots of jumping. Especially when the one who does the jumping doesn't care about the other group members and blame the others when they can't/don't want to keep up. I'd happily take a wipe or two with decent company than RUSH RUSH RUSH JUMP SKIP SP RUSH SKIP JUMP SKIP SP SP SP