@LFG tool haterz

[Jederix]

So here are some facts. The majority is in the game enjoying theirselves.

The game is not failing yet. People will qq about anything. Until not having a lfd tool starts having a very negative effect causing people to leave in drones it is not needed.

 

You say they don't care about LFD because they are playing the game and not here on the forums. I say they don't care about LFD because there isn't one in this game and therefore it doesn't affect them. I also say that if there was a LFD tool in the game, many of them would use it.

 

Neither one of us really has any proof that the other is wrong or right. At least, I don't pretend that there is some silent majority backing me up when you, clearly, do.

[Deavyin]

No offense, but you obviously made up at least part of this story. "Vanilla raids" would NOT gear you up for TBC raids. The gear was on a whole different level. "Vanilla raid" gear would be the same as low level TBC EARLY questing gear. Gearing up for TBC raids (or any new content raids in general) were done through crafting (kinda) and dungeons/heroics. I do agree about being able to log in and be productive almost right away due to the LFD tool though.

 

 

I didn't 'make it up' so much as it's been a long time since i've played WoW. I only remember not having proper fire equipment to run a certain dungeon (can't even remember the name) and i was expected to run a raid again and again or purchase it off of the AH (which was super expensive) in order to get into the dungeon that everyone was running at the time and I, for the life of me, couldn't get a group spamming general for it. This was before the LFD tool.

[Flyjedi]

This post illustrates the problem. Pro-LFD people only see two options...

 

1. LFD tool.

2. Spam General.

 

It never occurs to them to join a guild or actually talk to people and make friends.

 

Sorry, but I don't want this to turn into a lobby game with people just standing around waiting for their instance to pop so they can mindlessly rush in to break their loot pinata and get their freebie epics.

 

That's what WoW has become, and I will never play that game again. Go there if that's what you want.

 

 

Actually, your post illustrates the problem with the LFG tool debate.

 

Every single negative response contains two major premises:

 

1. Play like I play, or don't play at all.

 

2. It sucked in WoW.. therefore it will suck here.

 

 

Ok, I don't want to be in a guild, and I don't necessarily want to have in game friends to rely on when I want to play. The fact that you do, is fine, but don't tell me to do something I don't want to do to be able to enjoy the game. It's selfish of you to expect me to do that, and just plain stupid.

 

The problem with the LFG tool in WoW was not the LFG tool. It was the people you got in your groups. The tool was not to blame for all the idiots and rude people that play the game. It doesn't matter if they were on your server, or another server. The tool doesn't make bad people... people just are. If you can try and understand that, you might make some progress.

 

ALL the tool does is make it faster and easier to get groups and get things done. That's IT. It doesn't ruin socialization and it doesn't encourage people to be idiots. If you're an idiot, you just are, and how you got to be in a group has nothing to do with it. Stop blaming a tool for making people.. tools. One has nothing to do with the other, and the more you think it does, the sillier you sound.

 

Now, as far as your running groups all day for free epics.. where do I start. So if you group with friends, and chain run instances all day for gear.... that's ok right? But if you do it with a tool, which would take longer... it's bad. Your logic is solid there. Secondly, the LFG tool doesn't make the instances easier, or the loot easier to get, that's how the developers design the instances. If you think they are too easy, make a post about THAT, and not a tool that makes getting groups more convenient.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Flyjedi

[Tedstery]

(looks at World of Warcraft Community, Looks back at SWTOR community)

 

Yeah, I'll keep the community this way by keeping the LFG Tool out, if its cross server.

[Donnadarco]

Can we at least get a GLOBAL LFG chat please..... There you can list your name and comment like the planet one that already exists. But Global LFG chat is a must ,

[Flyjedi]

(looks at World of Warcraft Community, Looks back at SWTOR community)

 

Yeah, I'll keep the community this way by keeping the LFG Tool out, if its cross server.

 

Once again, stop blaming the tool for the community. It has nothing to do with it. It has to do with.. oh I don't know.. the community?

[Zocat]

Can we at least get a GLOBAL LFG chat please..... There you can list your name and comment like the planet one that already exists. But Global LFG chat is a must ,

 

Problem is that a global lfg chat (if it's the only global chat) will be abused for other things (trading, chatting, ...). But yes, I agree a global chat would be better for finding groups (if there are methods implemented to combat spam (only X lines every Y seconds, no item linking at all, ...)).

Another option would be to create a custom chat channel and publicize it on general and hope the community joins. I happened in other games - but not always (a serverforum would be great to make it even more public ...).

 

 

More on topic:

I'm against a crossserver LFG. I think it's save to assume that the percentage of idiots and nice guys is about equal when looking at the global population and the server population. Therefore the chance of getting an idiot/cool player should be the same for a crossserver lfg & server only lfg.

But when I meet a nice guy from my server I can add him as a friend, and talk to him on a regular basis. I can schedule other events - and since I know he's a nice guy - I know I will not have an idiot on that spot the next time we schedule something. Thus slowly reducing the need to play with unknowns and therefore the chance of getting an idiot.

When the nice guy is from crossserver, we will probably have a fun time while playing the instance. And after that it's "over". We will never meet again. And the next time his spot can go to an idiot.

 

Also people need to keep in mind that it's good for Bioware when small local communities form (guilds, friendships, ...) something where crossserver lfg is not helping. If you have friends playing you will probably continue playing even if there's a bit of downtime. Just to keep in touch. If I only consider the content I probably would've cancelled my WoW subscription way earlier than I did (end of WotLK), but my guild & friends where an incentive to continue to play.

i.e.: the fun factor of the mmo combined with the fun factor of playing with friends was higher than the fun factor of playing a singleplayer game (which was more fun than the mmo alone). And I found those online friends, because I had the option to play with them again, after the first time. Something which isnt possible in the crossserver lfg.

[YooYooMa]

What Bioware geniuses decided that no global LFG chat would be a good idea?

 

Spamming LFG in the small, sharded general chats is not socializing and does not improve the community.

 

It shouldn't take 20 minutes to get a group for a stupid low-level instance.

[Graburr]

It shouldn't take 20 minutes to get a group for a stupid low-level instance.

 

because it doesn't

[Kharik]

because it doesn't

 

And of course your personal experiences are the same that I and others experience as well.

 

Of course.

 

There is no problem, folks. Graburr doesn't have one - you don't have one.

[Bossalinie]

And of course your personal experiences are the same that I and others experience as well.

 

Of course.

 

There is no problem, folks. Graburr doesn't have one - you don't have one.

 

I have a problem with my character not looking just like me, so we all have this is and it must be a priority

[Crosswinder]

The dicreasing of WoW subscribers starts with the emplementing the LFD and guild levels systems. I hope Bioware is smarter then this.

[Reecelol]

The dicreasing of WoW subscribers starts with the emplementing the LFD and guild levels systems. I hope Bioware is smarter then this.

 

if you actually believe that caused the decrease vs the games increasing age/lack of "new" content then i really feel bad for you. school must have been hard.

[Avrose]

Bored at work, been poring over the forums. One point of contention I've run across frequently is the idea of a LFG tool, wether or not it should be implemented. I'm in the pro-LFG tool camp myself, but the argument goes that somehow the tool destroys player community, makes people less social, etc.

 

What?

 

Do you consider it socializing to ask (or spam) people in general chat (or whispers) if they want to run an instance? Is it the time spent before the party is filled out? I'm just looking for a more in-depth explanation of what people mean when they claim dungeon finders ruin a server's sense of community. I've played MMOs with and without LFG tools, and for the life of me, I can't ever recall those without having this vaunted sense of belonging the anti-tool camp purports.

 

No I consider you experimenting with people on your server and building a friends list of trusty people you can call on.

 

THAT is what we all should strive for.

[ProReo]

Agreed.

 

I really like the game, but I also really think SWTOR will fail if no LFG tool is introduced soon. A lot of people don't have the time/energy to spam general chat and just want to play. The apologists (sp?) are going to ruin this game.

 

So just asking people for group in chat is too much work that you cannot do it? Why don't you try to get a guild and ask there? Why are people expecting everything on a silver plate while they can't be bothered to do the most basic things? Is it really that hard to ask people to join groups?

 

Just to clarify, I am against cross server and instant teleportation style LFD. It has ruined WoW and it keeps ruining it, now with the LFR tool, small raids who want to do 25 man use the tool to fill their raid spots and in return people come and ninja loot, perform terribly and make the experience terrible for everyone else. Because tools like this emphasize anonymity and no repurcussions for bad behaviour. Moreover it turns the game into a conveyor belt at a factory where people click and loot and don't care for the social side of the game.

 

WoW did not have LFG tool in its current form for 5 years and it did fine, because people liked the game and wanted to play. Some people are just lazy and instead of playing the game they find excuses for anything so that they can shortcut everything. Don't tell me you don't have time to ask LFG chat or some people in your guild. Some days you'll easily get people, other days you won't but that's what the game is. Bad luck but just because paying 14.99 a month doesn't guarantee anyone perfect game experience everytime they are logged in.

Edited December 31, 2011 by ProReo

[DieselCheezel]

A global lfg channel would become a global general channel within a matter of minutes if it wasn't moderated (and sadly these things never seem to be) and if they wanted a global general channel there would already be one.

[Kharik]

I have a problem with my character not looking just like me, so we all have this is and it must be a priority

 

D'aww Bossalinie learned how to strawman, c'mere you big cutie lemme pinch your cheeks.

[FourTwent]

People don't want something where you press a button the game automatically matches you up with total strangers who are normally all from different servers that you will never see or talk too again, who you will barely speak with during the run.

 

this is what I dont want in the game. I dont like the idea of randomly grouping ppl for a high level instance. maybe the leader/guild feels they want all of X class instead of diversity(this could be instance dependent where certain flashpoints are completed better with certain classes).

Edited December 31, 2011 by FourTwent

[Zaraze]

My question to the anti-LFG crowd is this: there is no one forcing you to use it, so why do you care if others have access to it or want to use it? You can sit there and find your group of friends/guildmates or travel from planet to planet to individually find the best people to run your particular instance, and I honestly and truly hope you have a great time doing it, I hope you are successful at it and enjoy the game.

 

But sometimes I only have 45 minutes to play. You know, things like real world commitments. That 45 minutes is 20 minutes longer than I need to finish a flashpoint. Why are you so against a system that will allow me to jump in when my schedule permits and do that flashpoint and enjoy the game the way *I* want to play? I'm willing to put up with ninjas and ******es and strangers in order to accomplish that, how is this infringing on your game? Without an LFG tool, I know there's no way I can get a group together in time and finish before I have to run off. So I would not log in, and eventually get bored and cancel the subscription. Is that how community is built? And what if you happen to lose your tank or healer, or even dps. Are you going to spend another hour looking for a replacement? Good luck with that, especially if you have killed a boss or two.

 

Just because a game has an LFG does not mean you have to use it. But if it doesn't have it, that means NO one can use it. You all want to force everyone to play the game just the way you want to play it, no way else?

 

Bioware has made a big mistake not implementing an LFG system of some type. Just as they have made a huge mistake not allowing multi-specs. Many people, such as myself, will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt... for now. But MMOs have evolved and changed. Once something is out of the bag, it's hard to go back.

 

As an analogy: cars are invented. Some people are going to hate the fact that they pollute, look ugly, and are dangerous. What ever happened to the purity of riding a horse? Or walking somewhere even? Let me ask you: how many people do you know ride a horse to work every day? Not very many, I would bet.

 

Oh, and in before the whole "Go back to WoW, noob" responses I'm sure I will get.

[nonamesleft]

Just got done spamming LFG for Taral V for over half an hour with nothing to show for it. A viable LFG tool needs to be in a month ago.

[Utorian]

I said this is another thread just like this one. possibly even this one! who knows there are so god dam many of them!!

 

The pro LFG tool guys, to me, seem to think that the anti LFG guys are wanting to make best buds with everyone they join a group with. Now I would imagine that is the furthest thing from their mind.

 

I go back to the days of, ooh no imma have to use it, WOW before the LFD system was inplace. Most people had huge friends lists on their server of guys that you could always get a quest or dung run going. This was the social element of the game a huge friends list of guys you enjoyed playing with. Now as soon as the LFD system came in my friends list diminished, or most on it had already done their run with a pug. The game then lost allot of its charm.

 

Now I do agree spamming the heck out of /1 is not a social thing at all. Its the people you meet and enjoyed gaming with that end up on your friends list that generates this. The LFD tool means people then stop using this aspect of the game and it can quickly become a boring lonely experience for some.

 

Another major downside, and I doubt anyone will disagree with me here, is that instances are then designed to be easier to accomodate the lack of communication that happens in the groups eaiser. Proof is in the pudding. look at latest content patch on WOW. they made a raid finder and then made the raid so easy it can be steam rolled. To me that was game breaking and I know if that happened here in SW:ToR it would be such a shame as they onto a winning formular.

 

If a LFG tool has to be implemented at least lets leave it to a server only one. One like Aion has would work very well here IMO.

 

edit to reply to this

My question to the anti-LFG crowd is this: there is no one forcing you to use it, so why do you care if others have access to it or want to use it? You can sit there and find your group of friends/guildmates or travel from planet to planet to individually find the best people to run your particular instance, and I honestly and truly hope you have a great time doing it, I hope you are successful at it and enjoy the game.

 

But sometimes I only have 45 minutes to play. You know, things like real world commitments. That 45 minutes is 20 minutes longer than I need to finish a flashpoint. Why are you so against a system that will allow me to jump in when my schedule permits and do that flashpoint and enjoy the game the way *I* want to play? I'm willing to put up with ninjas and ******es and strangers in order to accomplish that, how is this infringing on your game? Without an LFG tool, I know there's no way I can get a group together in time and finish before I have to run off. So I would not log in, and eventually get bored and cancel the subscription. Is that how community is built? And what if you happen to lose your tank or healer, or even dps. Are you going to spend another hour looking for a replacement? Good luck with that, especially if you have killed a boss or two.

 

Just because a game has an LFG does not mean you have to use it. But if it doesn't have it, that means NO one can use it. You all want to force everyone to play the game just the way you want to play it, no way else?

 

Bioware has made a big mistake not implementing an LFG system of some type. Just as they have made a huge mistake not allowing multi-specs. Many people, such as myself, will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt... for now. But MMOs have evolved and changed. Once something is out of the bag, it's hard to go back.

 

As an analogy: cars are invented. Some people are going to hate the fact that they pollute, look ugly, and are dangerous. What ever happened to the purity of riding a horse? Or walking somewhere even? Let me ask you: how many people do you know ride a horse to work every day? Not very many, I would bet.

 

Oh, and in before the whole "Go back to WoW, noob" responses I'm sure I will get.

 

If you take a momenty to read my post you will see why the "anti LFG" are about. While yes a LFG tool will alllow you to fit an instance in with your busy lifestyle so would a full friends list of guys you have previously plaid alongside.

 

Now to answer your first question. The LFD tool ends up being used by everyone, haters included. The game then does lose allot of its social aspect, and believe me people get very attached to this part of any MMO hence all the hatred.

 

But hey if you are ok with an LFD system where you meet nothing but ninjas, internet hard men, bailers, afkers, tanks that want payment carry on be my guest lets get one. However if that isnt so appealing get cracking on a friends list full of guys you have gamed with, then watch how quick you form groups, quicker than an LFD tool I bet!

Edited January 4, 2012 by Utorian

[Quip]

If Bioware was actually serious about building a community they would abolish guilds altogether. Dividing people up into little groups so they never have to socialise with anyone from outside their little cabal is what kills these communities.

[Ghoulishtie]

In my opinion, no LFG tool. Not until the first expansion, at the very least. And even then, no cross server availability.

 

<insert paragraphs of reasons that I am tired of posting and reposting and reposting over and over and over and...>

[akanesama]

If Bioware was actually serious about building a community they would abolish guilds altogether. Dividing people up into little groups so they never have to socialise with anyone from outside their little cabal is what kills these communities.

 

What?

[Guaritorr]

Not many people hating on LFG just LFD.

 

People don't want something where you press a button the game automagically matches you up with total strangers who are normally all from different servers that you will never see or talk too again, who you will barely speak with during the run.

 

Yeah, thats my issue with it. I'm not totally opposed if LFD drew from ONLY your server, because then you'd still be building relations with people you'll see again. However, ideally, I'd rather cut out that autonomy all-together. Having a tool to put your name/class/spec/level onto a list of other players looking for a group for a flashpoint, that group leaders could look at when forming a group would be my ideal option.

 

Just queuing and getting automatically grouped with some combination of random classes and people isn't appealing to me. Let me, or whoever wants to lead a group, pick and choose to build a successful party (and avoid people who you may not want to group with).

Edited January 4, 2012 by Guaritorr