"By "protected me" you mean "gave me an advantage", right? I wonder... why is it so scary that you now have to put your PVP skills to use instead of relying solely on uber Expertise gear to faceroll people? " I dont think any thinks they are "uber" because they were full EWH i know i dont - im just in a good pvp guild who does well in ranked and non ranked and who worked insanely hard to get the best gear available. Depends on which server you play on as well - i will never agree that the effort time and time spent on gearing for PVP should be rendered useless

Go and get some PVE mods from the new flashpoints and gear Like i said in reply to your other reply PVE mods give you massive buffs to your main stat , you get crit alacrity whatever and you trade off something miniscule like 50 expertise 150 + aim > 40 expertise i know what i would rather have

I know but the 69 mods from the hard modes still make your overall stats in PVP better You might lose something silly like 50 expertise in using the PVE mods not thats gonna make a difference when you can gain 150+ at least main stats

Still doesnt change the fact that faceroll PVE gear from the new flashpoints > any PVP gear

Apologies if its long - I have been playing since launch (for info) I both PVE and PVP Right ; i have seen so many people on here cussing down PVPers for having the cheek to moan our gear got destroyed. Firstly - have you people got ANY idea how long it took to get a fully OPTIMISED set of EWH , im not talking the set i'm talking FULLY optimised 63 mods. Secondly - i'm an MMO verteran I KNOW full well that gear becomes redundant when an "expansion" comes out The issue i and many other hardcore pvpers have is that PVE gear from faceroll "hard modes" is currently better to use in Warzone. This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever and is a complete slap in the face to every PVPer in the game I'm not elitist and i agree the gap between recruit (rubbish) and EWH was absolutely huge - i'm 100% all in favour of getting more people into PVP if they desire and i understand its a difficult issue but there can be no justification in my mind that PVE gear should be infinitely better than EWH or even Partisan. And YES i do have a fulll set of PVE gear i can use but why should i after all the effort that went into my full EWH We are not crying over gear - we all know it was going to have to be replaced - i'm not stupid enough to change and know i have to work hard if i want to get the best gear in the game. Bolster at the level it is on PVE is completely ridiculous - I have no issues with Bolster on PVE as an idea but at the current level it is it almost makes PVP grinding and gearing pointless Tell me whats the point in grinding Partisan gear when i can steamroll flashpoints all day and get 69 mods and just roll with PVE gear. Not all PVPers like PVE - im in a hardcore PVP guild 90% of my guild have never done an OPs or a flashpoint and dont want to ... i like both so in that respect im lucky Views?

Shadow tank 27k hp. 30% def, 65% shield with KW, 60% absorb. He aint squishy

Yes. Add was always controled. either pushed out of shields away from everyone or left till last and killed once people were clear of it.

Yes this is happening just as the adds under the shield die and the ops group is repositioning back onto the tanks. Just had a look through all our logs for tonight. Not one hit from zap above 2678 from the whole fight according to those logs. From what I remember in the fights our healers and the tank when this happened were all giving it "*** man tank from full hp to dead in 1 hit!?" Now as the RL I asked the tank to turn on the ingame kill report after the first time it happened. The subsequent times it happened the tank reported to me his kill report was saying "killed by zap 26780 damage". This is why we are a tad confused about what actualy happened. And now after looking through our logs I am even more confused lol. Total of 10 attempts largest hit showing on the logs is an 18k electric discharge, this suggests the tank ate DD which in 1 fight I know he did. The rest of the fights from what I saw/was reported in fight the 2 dps on Stormcaller always took the DD. heres a link to the nights log http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/cb51fef0-b9f5-4306-ae2c-2177b485d7f7/overview#d=0,b=1 . Tank on SC was Vigo

Hey guys. My guild tried the tanks in EC NiM for the first time tonight and we ran into a little issue. I have browsed through these forums, and many others, trying to find some guidance but as yet havent been able to spot the information we need. The issue we are having is afer the defensive systems phase. We are handling the adds well and killing things in good time, yet when we jump back up onto the tanks our stormcaller tank is getting 1 shot by a 27k+ zap (ingame kill report is showing this for the tank). Out of 8 attempts tonight this has happened 6 times to our complete frustration. From reading through allot of forums zap seems to be stormcallers spam atack and I havent seen anything to suggest that it should be hitting so hard. My main question with regards to this attack would be is there something we are doing wrong to trigger it to 1 shot the tank? Is this a bug?, or is this just something we have to deal with and work arround? Thanks in advance for your help

@Kitru. Ty For the reply to my post. I totally agree with what you are saying. Thing is my post was a response to the statement made by Wookubus that shield/absorb stats are worthless in PVP. I did this without wanting to go into the math and theory crafting side of the argument. I would however like to ask you a few things. The examples you gave of increased crit. My question here is how often do all these classes have those buffs active, 15-20s or so. Most of them with a 1.5min + CD. So for the rest of the time that buff is on CD they wont use the attacks? OFC they will and that is when shield/absorb shines. Another thing you mention is that some classes can get to 100%+ crit chance on a melee or ranged attack. I would like to know which classes can achieve this tbh, there is one I can think of but that only applies to one of their abilities (I must admit some of my class knowledge is lacking so I would like to know this so I can have a bit of a better understanding). Thing is though even with all these number and chances they do still come down to a "chance" and if the RNG is with you or not. And I ask this of everyone reading this post. How anoying is it when you have to use a ranged/melee attack as a finisher and its shielded the tank is still alive and lol'ing at you. Theory and numbers are all good indicators of how things should work out, but in practice, most times it doesn't work out. Also one thing I did mention was about the shadow using melee attacks as there bread and butter. Lets think about that if you don't mind. Firstly the Infil its biggest hitting attack by far is shadow strike, melee. Next to those is force breach (12s CD talented) and project (6s cd). Now in between those attacks what are they using? That's right SS or CS, if not using snares stuns etc. Now on a damage per force basis CS doesn't look good, but I currently get 1.7k crits per hit. that's potentially 3.4k damage per CS. I tend to use this twice at times while waiting for FB and Project to come of CD. Thats a fair ammount of damage I have done if all things line up and they crit (never happens mind). Add to that Shadow strike and spinning strike, currently getting 7k+ crits with shadow usable every 9s or more if I have the spare force, and 5-6k crits with spinning. That's an awful lot of damage potential while waiting for FB and Project to finish their cd. Thats is why I said the bread and butter of shadows attacks. Also the fact that most of the logs I parse always show those melee attacks at the top of the list for damage done. For the tank, not so much uses apart from DS to get PA procs. Anyways I seemed to have derailed the thread a bit here so back to shielding and absorb in PvP. As has been said it has it uses, however a decent player will use his abilities to bypass your shield and cause you problems. The way I look at it is that it is an extension of my HP. Allowing me to stay in the fight longer, protect my healer and my team longer and die less. Ya know the role of a tank. Leave DPS to DPS classes. They will always do it better than any tank, hybrid or dps geared.

Ignore this. Shield and absorb has its use in PvP. Yes allot of hits that come in are force/tech hits but when you really think about it most classes rely on ranged/melee attacks. Let me explain. PT/Vang - AP, IP, and burns all tech. however the bread and butter of their burst is High impact bolt. Trust me when I play my vang there is nothing worse than a shielded HiB. What should have been a killing blow, when shielded, then means player is still alive, gets healed and turns on me.. anoying as hell. Now for them to spam force attacks on you they will run out of ammo so fast they become useless, and AP does have quit a cd on it. Enough of a cd for you to break their back before they break yours. GS/Sniper - cull, ambush, series of shots and takedown. All big hitters, all ranged attacks. Yes these classes also have tech damage but their biggests hits come from ranged. The ability to reduce most of their damage wins out any day. Mara/sent - well we have the smash spec and yes its force, and yes it hurts. However apart from this pretty much all their other attacks are melee. Guardian/jugg - same as above. Shadows/sin - shadow strike, spinning strike, CS, DS all melee attacks again there is nothing worse than when that killing blow spinning strike gets shielded. Ok these clases also have hard hitting force attacks but their bread and butter stuff is all melee. Sage/sorc - All force. shielding wont make any diff with this class at all. Period. Commando/Merc - allot of tech attacks, but again some of their major attacks, Full auto, HiB can be shielded and tbh as we all know see these guys casting grav round interupt it and most (not all) will look at you with a stupid expression thinking "oh crap what now". I do kid but ya know what I mean. Assault specs for these classes are a bit diff but again they play to get HiB going and the ability to redcue that damage by 50%+ really does help. So there we have it. most classes covered and of them all only 1 class that shielding wont make a lick of differance. Shield/absorb has its uses in PvP only thing I can suggest is play about with the numbers. Get a feel for where you need them to fit your playstyle. And dont forget the 2 piece PvE armors basically give you 5% extra shield chance when kinetic ward is up, may help you with how to use your aug slots.

I've had far too many games that I can remember where things start to look bad. The lamers quit and within minutes the game gets turned round to be a win, sometimes even before a new player has joined. At the end of the day those that quit need to be penalized for doing so, and if people cant handle losing **** of PvP. Take your licks from a loss and learn from it. Its the only way you get better. Many other games ive played have this system in place, works a treat. However to do this you also then have to put in an afk system, or the issue that someone has mentioned in this thread of guys tucking away in the corner walking into walls becomes the new leave WZ on loss. 30 min deserter debuff and option to boot AFK'ers. Shouldnt be hard to put in as the AFK option already in place and the deserter debuff is in place on the group finder just move it to PvP aswell.

Was chatting with a guildy the other day about the limitations placed on F2P players and the discussion came round to the credit cap they have. It seemed a bit silly to us and we both felt that BW are missing out on getting more money from the cartel coins from subscribers. Basically our feeling was that they should remove the credit cap for F2P. This would then allow an F2P player to purchase items from the GTN. Items such as the authorizations from the cartel coins and the weekly passes for WZ's and FP's etc. The idea being that allot of the F2P guys have no intention to ever buy coins or ever buy a subscription to the game yet could still potentially play unrestricted. Now to do this BW would need to make sure that to get the authorizations you have to spend cash on cartel coins. Don't allow them to be obtained from the packs or the idea fails. This would mean that any player wanting a credit boost that has RL money to spare could purchase these items from the cartel shop and then sell them on to the F2P player. Both players get benefit from this and IMO will increase the enjoyment of the F2P player and in turn attract more people to the game. The idea basically came to us discussing the pilot licence system Eve Online has in place. Allowing the poor guy to play at the rich guys expense. The downsides we looked at with this was that the "credit card" type players may pull ahead. But if you really think about the game as it is, this really is a none issue. Ok they could have tonnes of creds but that doesn't really mean they have a huge upper hand. In PvP this is a none issue as the only way to get gear is by grinding it. PvE ok someone can come along with a fresh dinged 50 fully kitted on the latest gear and you then have the "all the right gear no idea" issue. But hey we all deal with that anyways with the current system, I mean come on gear isn't really that hard to get. We then looked at the low lvl PvP and the option for these guys to twink out their chars. This was really the only downside we saw. That the low lvl PvP could become twink city (more so than it already is). But yeah just thought I would throw this out there for the community to discuss and see if it is actually a viable option that BW should check into. What do you guys think?

its still comes with the lvl 50 gear. However, it isnt usable (you get a red flashing icon over his portrait saying items incorrect lvl). Best thing I can suggest is find a cybertech, most can craft cheap modable parts and the mods/armors to go with them. Or you could get the norm droids parts crafted, but they all have def stats on them so IMO pretty pointless. All in all even though I had to change his gear on my lvl 32 I am quite happy I did. Hes one sweet companion.

This question re acuracy has been asked allot in my guild recently. So between my self and 3 other commandos. (Myself using a Vanguard DPS and Commando) We played arround with acuracy. We have tried varying accuracy values from 90% to 100%. We have all seemed to find that the magic number lies at arround 98%. At this value during our operations parses we noticed the only avoids we see are usualy on Hammer shot. Any lower than 98% and we then start to also see misses/avoids on full auto and HiB. When we went to 100% then no avoids seen on anything. Now we are still working on this and watching the parses on each fight to make sure that 98% is enough, but so far its looking good. Hammer shot misses we can live with. Any FA or HiB misses then we re asses.

1. Character customization (haircuts etc) 2. Larger teams in WZ's some 16 man stuff would be cool 3. More equipment recipies in ops equal to the current gear lvl.

I dont agree that the com limit should be raised. MMO's are about the grind. Sorry but thats just the way it is. However as this guy has said having the vendors back in WZ is a must have IMO. The way thing are now with lvling in pvp means you easily cap on coms before 50. Now what to do with the rest of your coms? WZ Medpacks and adrenals. Get as many as you can get your hands on. They help so much in 50 PvP and have allowed me to stay in the fight a little longer and actualy aid my team, even with recruit gear!

Just been discussing the F2P model with some guildies and we basically have all said what the OP has said here. The F2P model as Bioware have anounced it can do nothing but good things for the game. More players means less time sat about waiting for an FP/WZ. To me the limitations they have also placed on the F2P players is spot on and will allow them to have some decent enjoyment of the game and if they want more they will have to sub. However. Bioware could seriously balls this whole thing up if they put in super items into the game that can only be obtained with cartel coins, but I kind of have a feeling all we will see is legacy unlocks, pets, mounts and empty armor skins.

Tbh I would mainly like to see the addition of a couple of extra quickslot bars. 4 is enough for all my skills and keybinds, but the option for another couple of them wouldnt hurt.

It was far to easy to get PvP gear pre 1.2 and then go steam roll in PvE. This shouldnt happen. The reverse of this was it was very bad to turn up in PvP without the expoertise as you wouldnt last long, heal enough and only add to the defeat of your team. There should always be a very big differance between the 2 game types and the gear that accompanies this. Its not like its hard to get a starter PvP set or even a starter PvE set.

Its a very refreshing change to see such a well thought out and written post, thankyou. I have to agree with everything I read. I too do not condone leaving a WZ, but since 1.2 it is pointless to waste time with the above scenarios the OP describes and definately best to walk away and re-que. There has been far too many changes all at once in my opinion and considering people fight change it has only fueled the fire of the haters. The expertise change, for example, is silly. As it was it balanced out and meant that to perform on a more equal footing PvP gear was needed and then the game really did come down to the skill of your enemy. As it stands its nothing but gear. I personaly do not get frustrated at all by being out played. It adds to the excitement of the fight and gives a far greater sense of achievement when I defeat that player. Currently it is too easy to faceroll lower geared guys and really does frustrate me that in some case nothing I can do will overcomne that gear gap. Add this frustration to then not getting anything for the last 15 minuites of hell I just had, it odes leave me with a sour taste in my mouth. Now if it is the case that BW were trying to resolve the AFK issue they really have gone about it all the wrong way. What would be wrong with giving the players the option to vote for an afk? Ok it can be abused, but there is also a way to stop that. Say in an 8 man team a player would need 5 afk votes before being flagged. The flagged player then has a debuff added to them with a 1-2 min duration. If that player actualy isnt afk all they would have to do to remoive the debuff would be to engage in combat, if they dont out they go. Most of the gamers here will have seen this system before and we all know it works. I really hope that BW do something about this issue fast, as I am already seeing longer ques and lack of guys in PvP. So much so that it is starting to seem like people just dont want to participate as much anymore ans that really is sad for the game as a whole.

1 - You are correct in what you say here regarding the system allowing the Ninja's and your counter to this issue is one that really will need to be implemented if LFD goes live. However, with a server community ninja's will still exist but they have their name out there pretty quick and dont get many groups, if any, solving the problem. 2 - Again your right but I do believe this is where people are not undertsanding what people mean by the server community. Its about building name as a good guy. Not a decent player, although that does help, but as a genuine person people will want to play alongside. This is where the comunity grows on your server. What you have said above is not the social aspect I would want to solely be a part of. LFD can force this though as it does become too easy to find a group rather than wait for your friends to come online, we all know it and most of us do ot I imagine 3 - IMO, and this is purely opinion based on experience. The LFD tool slowly led to easier instances so it catered to those who didnt communicate in groups, and please we all know there are more of these than the ones that do communicate. The content becoming so easy is IMO what leads to a games death. Not because I am an elitist and want things to be uber hard, no, because I get bored quickly doing things that I can do with my eyes closed. I really do suggest you try the LFR tool on WoW. Its insanely easy, so much so it really hurt me to see the game going down that road. 4 - well what can we say here. People will always be "internet hardmen" wether its x server or same server. It cant be avoided other than what you suggest and hey thats what we all do right? 5 - Break immersion argument I dont understand at all. But to me the answer to this is simple, you can only port to an instance if you know where it is and have been there yourself. I will challenge any one of the immersion arguing guys to tell me that once you have completed the story of an instance you dont just spam space next visit. Isnt that also breaking immersion? 6 - While you are right that all content is easy maybe this is why so many are so against the LFD tool. Cause like it or not we do know from previous examples that LFD instances have to be slightly nerfed to accomodate such a system. And with already easy instances this can in no way be good. Your resolve to this with an idea of Nightmare mode would be such a good idea and one that would have to be implemented at the same time IMO. It would cater to all parties. 7 - Hmm "scrubs" cant avoid em, there like a plague. So why this point would even be a part of the argument I cant tell. Your answer does have some merits to it but, the gear check system before allowing people in. That concerns me as the gear score that came in along with it in WoW was horrid and led people far too far away from the main thing to remember in any MMO... Skill > Gear I personaly have my concerns about an LFD tool and I am against one. My reasoning for this is nothing more than a personal opinion based on previuos events. I remember WoW before Wrath and having a huge friends list always able to get instant access to heroics, old raid content and the likes and it was allot of fun. Then along came wrath and the LFD tool and I slowly found myself not using my friends list half as much and the game lost allot of its pull. The next issue I had was when I created an alt. It took 2 days to have it gear ready for raiding once I dinged 80 and to me that was just way way to fast. I missed half the content and went about my day. Now for an alt wasnt an issue as I had already seen it, but for a new player to miss so much was silly. Cause some of it could teach them skills they would need later in raiding. Thing is guys no matter what is said here the decision has already been made and an LFD system is on its way. Too late to change that so we really need to move on to something more constructive and find ways to makem LFD work for all in this game. Dont forget this isnt WoW, Aion, Rift, Eve or any other MMO. Maybe a clone as some put it, but its still a brand new game of its own design and it needs "the community" to help it

Apart from the hello kitty in space what did I really exaggerate? Blizzard ballsing up? Hmm lets think about it eh? Ok they still have the most subscibers in any MMO, but they are leaving en mass. Instances get nerfed cause pug groups cant complete? Again no exaggeration at all! This has been proven over and over again.

I cant believe they are going to implement an LFD tool *** BW have you learned nothing from watching Blizzard balls up!! This system will lead to 1 thing "Waaa Waaa Waaa I cant complete this instance with this pug group, nerf it please its too hard" and what do we end up with? Yeah thats right hello kitty in space!! To those that cant seem to grasp the idea of a social aspect server I can tell you have oput 0 effort into finding groups. And when you have you have simply completed and walked away. Havent even thought of adding those guys to your friend list. You are all dam correct in saying spamming general looking for a group is not social, but if that is all you think we mean by social, well that just shows you have no clue at all how it works and have put no effort in at all. Dont get me wrong its not your fault, you've just been spoon fed easy mode gaming by a fail game! Go get yourselves a friends list of guys youve managed to have runs with then there is no ned to spam /1 LFM HM's. You simply /w the guys you know andf see what they upto. Trust me 2-3 HM's per day in a few hours + time for dailies and PvP once I get home from work. This is how you work your server community. edit Just a quick edit to add something else.. When this is implemented. Boy will I laugh my *** off when your all sat there for hours in a que cause there arent any tanks... No real gain then is there. Shucks I know I'll hit LFD and sit in fleet for the same ammount of time I already did! And theres me and my buddies lol'in at you running our HM's

No it really doesnt. I have yet to have to wait for my transport to come of CD so i can get somewhere. If I know its on cd I use the taxi and go wash up, make a brew, go the lav etc. TBH this time scale falls right inline with nearly every other MMO's recall skill I have ever used. Thuink only that other game that we dare not spak its name has a reduced one as long as your guild has lvl'd to get the perk for it. IMO games need to have a delay like this to force people to walk away during play and do something while they wait on the 2-3 min taxi journey.