Conquest lost its shape and purpose

[Phazonfreak]

Your thread title misses a crucial word. Conquest lost its <old> shape and purpose. But it gained a new shape and purpose. Granted it might not be the only purpose that you personally want out of it, but BioWare is clearly trying to turn Conquest into an extended reward mechanic with all player types in mind. From casual low level solo players who are not even in a guild to hardcore raiders and PvP players in a dedicated guild.

 

Now I would agree with everything you said if Conquest did not include objective points for doing the hardcore endgame content of the game and only rewarded casual play. Then you would definitely have an argument here. But since you still get these points (and in no small amount) and can turn them into currencies for credits, crafting, invasions and climbing the guild leader boards, nothing is lost for that part of the game.

 

The only thing that really changed is that Conquest has become a much broader reward mechanic that includes more player types than before.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[Ylliarus]

The only thing that really changed is that Conquest has become a much broader reward mechanic that includes more player types than before.

 

And that's a huge improvement if you ask me. Crafters for example will have a much easier time of getting to the personal conquest goal so as to get the mats we get from that. And I can't imagine anyone would find that a bad thing.

 

As you said, the old system is gone and that's okay, because the new system is so much better. It engages more players and that's good! there's still group content and PVP objectives - which arguably offer more points than other things - so the incentive is still there, nothing has changed there.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Ylliarus

[Stradlin]

And that's a huge improvement if you ask me. Crafters for example will have a much easier time of getting to the personal conquest goal so as to get the mats we get from that. And I can't imagine anyone would find that a bad thing.

 

the old system is gone and that's okay, because the new system is so much better. It engages more players and that's good! there's still group content and PVP objectives - which arguably offer more points than other things - so the incentive is still there, nothing has changed there.

 

 

Yeah. Finally, the playstyle revovlving around selling vendor trash gets properly engaged. Also, folks who enjoy giving 2 gifts to companion a day or riding to places in a taxi are rewarded. Justr now,I placed 5 anniversary fireworks in my SH for a daily 5k and got so incredibly engaged that I can barely type.

 

Incredibly simplistic, straightforward and menial tasks are now - more rewarding- than stuff that requires other people to complete. Selling vendor trash gives more conq than doing a warzone match you lose.

 

Besides utterly ridiculous broken stuff like what is outlined above, things that actually requires player to leave the fleet (imagine that) is also wonky as hell. Completing any heroic mission is 10k each day. If it is 1st mission you did on that planet, you get nice overlap going and actually earned 15k, not 10. Completiong GSF or PvP weekly is also 10k.. Completing either GSF or pvp weekly takes at least 45 mins and can be done..once a week.Completing a single heroic mission takes something like 5-10 mins on average. And, again, needs no other people. And can be done again tomorrow. Truly, what a great and balanced system.

 

You know what? You folks enjoy reaching conq target by selling vendor trash and so on? That's great! Whatever **engages you** But ti'd be really nice if gameplay THAT ACTUALLY REQUIRES YOU TO LEAVE FLEET would be elevated so much that it actually somehow compares to this stuff in terms of how rewarding it is. Would that be ok? Cauyse I think that'd be nice. Or is this to be argued too? Should selling vendor trash and throwing some gifts at your companion indeed be MORE REWARDING than entering into queue with other people and doing fp/wz/gsf match with them? Is the act of sending companion out to sell junk destined to be more " """engaging"" than grp-based gameplay? Activity requiring a queueu is quite literally less vlauable now than selling vendor trash.

 

 

Spending 10 mins doing ridiculous hamster wheel of irrelevancies in fleet is, in literal sense, - more -rewarding than doing content that demands you to leave fleet. If you actually do decide to leave the fleet anyway, then doing a single 2 min lasting heroic mission is 15k conquest - Far more than anything that actually requires group of other players to complete.

 

Maybe this doesn't go quite far enogh. Perhaps group play should be punished somehow. Maybe ability to enter grp finder queue should -cost- conquest. Hows that?

Edited April 22, 2020 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

Now I would agree with everything you said if Conquest did not include objective points for doing the hardcore endgame content of the game and only rewarded casual play. Then you would definitely have an argument here. But since you still get these points (and in no small amount)

 

Points you get from any group -based activity are now extremely modest conquest when compared to stuff you do without leaving the fleet. In case you are so adventurous you actually wanna leave the fleet, then stuff you can solo in 2 minutes are far superior conquest when compared to anything that needs a group of other players.

 

Casual player who has..30-45 mins of time to play TOR logs in. He wants to get a some conq real fast in an effort to help the guild/himself. Why on earth would he do -ANYTHING- that requires a group? Dumb stuff that you can do in 5 mins without leaving fleet is 35k conq or something. After that, pick one of the easy heroic missions that are done in few mins. 15k coming your way. There you go, conquest target reached. You did it SO MUCH faster than you could have through any content that requires other people.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Stradlin

[xordevoreaux]

The OP is entitled to his opinion -- as are we all -- but I'm no longer replying to any of his posts. No matter how many people explain to him how much they see the new system as advantageous, he won't be swayed.

 

He'll either eventually exhaust himself of this topic and move on, or spend 6 months making MadCuzBad's posts seem rational.

 

The only value in any of the rest of us posting in this thread is to give voice to the counter-point so that EA knows that the OP's opinion is not the only one out there.

 

By far.

[Stradlin]

^ Its interesting how couple of people feel it extremely important to talk about me instead of stuff I'm saying.

 

Should straigfhtforward stuff that can be completed without leaving fleet be **Better** and more efficient conquest than stuff that requires more time, more effort and more people? Yes/No?

^ Answering that would be much better a contibution to this thread&issue than doing some lame ad hominem.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Stradlin

[RameiArashi]

Half way to target? I am almost double target and haven't done anything special.

[Darev]

I read parts of this thread with amusement last night.

Nothing has changed now that I've woken up and am starting a new day.

 

Conquest now is a buffet table.

Lots of quick and easy things

Lots of normal things

 

Will grouping go down? Maybe. It depends on how many people needed to group up to get conquest points. You certainly don't need to now (which in my opinion is a very good thing).

 

Will the price of the conquest crafting mats go down? Almost certainly. While it isn't great for the people who sold them and raked in MILLIONS of credits...it's good for everyone else in the game. Including me. There are other ways of making credits and honestly, selling those is the equivalent of placing 5 decorations in your SH. and if you're placing 5 different decorations you're doing it wrong. Pickup/place x5...same item. It'll save you 60 seconds

 

This week has WAY more objectives than normal, based on what I've seen on PTS the last few weeks.

Most weeks won't have kill count objectives on every single planet. Most weeks won't reward points for heroics on every single planet.

This week is a feast.

 

Just enjoy it.

 

I completed 6 toons last night. (on both accounts)

My guild is up to 850k.

 

It's quite possible I'll hit the 5 million mark.

I chose the 2 million mark. I wanted to play it safe.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Darev

[Phazonfreak]

Casual player who has..30-45 mins of time to play TOR logs in. He wants to get a some conq real fast in an effort to help the guild/himself. Why on earth would he do -ANYTHING- that requires a group?

 

Because the group content provides him/her and his/her guild with additional rewards in the form of loot drops, crafting materials and achievements and not the least fun (I hope) because you personally enjoy doing group content with your guildies.

 

I know where you are coming from, but I don't think there would be any satisfying solution for the issue you proclaim for a game that wants to be open to casual gamers. You want Conquest to be an integral mechanic for endgame progression. You want Conquest to be the main motivator to do group content and not through playing the group content itself, so that players who usually would not do group content because they have no interest in it or find it boring get persuaded by the Conquest rewards.

 

Instead Conquest has been designed to become a tiered supplementary system analogous to what we had with Galactic Command. They stripped Renown of its added value except the iRating loot drops and Tech Fragments and turned the Conquest mechanic into the new reward system that also applies to characters who are not max level.

 

We are actually getting to the point where the "Play your way" slogan becomes almost true. Almost because PvP is still undervalued in terms of rewards.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[lpope]

While I do think some of the simpler objectives are a little silly, and I would perhaps slightly nerf their value, overall I like the changes. It's added a lot of variety to the tasks. It's also made it so I don't necessarily have to plan how to get conquest. It just seems to happen.

 

I typically get personal conquest targets on 7 or so characters a week primarily by running FPs and that is what I did last night. The queues still seemed to pop just as before, so I haven't seen any impact on the group content I run yet. It's anecdotal, but that's all I have and we'll see if that changes over time as the changes become more widely known.

 

So I don't see the wheels falling off at this point in time, and quite honestly don't expect much to change. I do expect more people and guilds meet the threshold merely because more points are accumulated.

[Stradlin]

Because the group content provides him/her and his/her guild with additional rewards in the form of loot drops, crafting materials and achievements and not the least fun (I hope) because you personally enjoy doing group content with your guildies.

 

 

My example featured a fella who had 30-45 mins of playtime a day. It is a fairly reasonable and common example to have I'd say. If you have that much to spend for earnign conquest, why would you settle for group stuff? Straightforward airheaded things you can do alone without leaving the fleet are much better, more efficient and more rewarding. Do you consider this good, balanced game design personally? It is not a choise between two different approaches of equal value here. Selling vendor trash, gifting companions and spending 2 mins doing one of the face roll heroics is by far superior to group stuff.

 

 

Instead Conquest has been designed to become a tiered supplementary system analogous to what we had with Galactic Command. They stripped Renown of its added value except the iRating loot drops and Tech Fragments and turned the Conquest mechanic into the new reward system that also applies to characters who are not max level.

 

 

I'd say daily log-in rewards you see in TESO and few others games is a more accurate comparsion. TOR was fairly stingy about Galactic Command. If you wanted it at a meanigful rate, you needed to do dive to deeper end of content available. This new conquest is nothing like that. Rather, the opposite. You did not get galactic command at meaningful rate for pressing buttons at fleet. So yeah, I'd say you basically gained daily log in rewards and lost a casuaal friendly end-game supplement/replacement. Its a pretty messy sacrifice to make.

 

 

 

You want Conquest to be an integral mechanic for endgame progression. You want Conquest to be the main motivator to do group content and not through playing the group content itself, so that players who usually would not do group content because they have no interest in it or find it boring get persuaded by the Conquest rewards.

 

 

For many, former conquest worked as an end game replacement rather than a supplement. Great thing about it? It kinda made end game available for all.. No matter how casual or what playstyle. You could chase and reach conquest target and feel you had achieved something meaninful that had some value. You could do it via grp content, pvp, pve. You could solo it. You could craft your way there. Now you reach it in 10 mins by selling vendor trash in fleet. So basically, a daily log in reward. Which features about as much gameplay as you'd expect from a daily log in reward.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

While I do think some of the simpler objectives are a little silly, and I would perhaps slightly nerf their value, overall I like the changes. It's added a lot of variety to the tasks. It's also made it so I don't necessarily have to plan how to get conquest. It just seems to happen.

 

I typically get personal conquest targets on 7 or so characters a week primarily by running FPs and that is what I did last night. The queues still seemed to pop just as before, so I haven't seen any impact on the group content I run yet. It's anecdotal, but that's all I have and we'll see if that changes over time as the changes become more widely known.

 

So I don't see the wheels falling off at this point in time, and quite honestly don't expect much to change. I do expect more people and guilds meet the threshold merely because more points are accumulated.

 

 

 

Patch day+double xp. It'd be super alarming if you already saw some big shift here despite the boost in activity gained via the xp event.

 

Somebody who typically likes to reach personal conq on 7 chartacters can now do it without really leavin the fleet at all. Don't you find it a bit sad?

 

I thought having to plan how to get conquest on my various chars was a real good gameplay hook. Now, people spending 15 mins a day with some of the most airheaded things you can possibly do in a vide game get conq faster and more efficienrly than you or I do by doing Flashpoints, GSF or PvP. Isn't that a bit sad?

Edited April 22, 2020 by Stradlin

[Nightblazer]

Honestly if more players are happy with the change then those who aren't happy, then no need to change it. Edited April 22, 2020 by Nightblazer

[Ylliarus]

Honestly if more players are happy with the change then those who aren't happy, then no need to change it.

 

And with this sentiment I absolutely agree.

 

I am also not going to reply to OP anymore as it's a waste of my time. He's frustrated by something most others evidently like and thus would like to impose his own playstyle onto everyone else. That's not how this works, but OP refuses to consider anything else other than his own opinion.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Ylliarus

[lpope]

Somebody who typically likes to reach personal conq on 7 chartacters can now do it without really leavin the fleet at all. Don't you find it a bit sad?

 

No, I really don't because the conquest change has not altered my game play behavior. I play the content that I enjoy. There are probably tons of folks like me that aren't all that interested in accumulating the most conquest points in the most efficient manner possible.

 

Perhaps it's because the guilds I'm in are only occasionally competitive in winning a planet. But that was true before the change and after.

[SteveTheCynic]

Underneath this buzzword disco, you have a relaity where conq functions as a daily login reward. People are busy enjoying conquest broadened to every activity and feelign rewarded by tackling engaging, diverse content by selling vendor trash and giving few gifts to their companions every day. 3-4 days of this -and nothing else- gets character to target.

While you were writing this, I was busy actually playing. (I know that sounds snide, and I don't care.) During *one* evening, I got four characters to or past their personal goal. That's sixteen Solid Resource Matrix mats. Tonight I'll finish up small-tier guild conquest on my guild.

 

All by myself. On Wednesday. That will net me extra mats, more gear boxes, blah blah blah. Sounds like a win for me. And then I can go Impside and do the same for the guild there (where there *are* other players, but none of them actually play).

 

Yup. Works for me.

[Phazonfreak]

My example featured a fella who had 30-45 mins of playtime a day. It is a fairly reasonable and common example to have I'd say. If you have that much to spend for earnign conquest, why would you settle for group stuff? Straightforward airheaded things you can do alone without leaving the fleet are much better, more efficient and more rewarding. Do you consider this good, balanced game design personally? It is not a choise between two different approaches of equal value here. Selling vendor trash, gifting companions and spending 2 mins doing one of the face roll heroics is by far superior to group stuff.

 

I'd say daily log-in rewards you see in TESO and few others games is a more accurate comparsion. TOR was fairly stingy about Galactic Command. If you wanted it at a meanigful rate, you needed to do dive to deeper end of content available. This new conquest is nothing like that. Rather, the opposite. You did not get galactic command at meaningful rate for pressing buttons at fleet. So yeah, I'd say you basically gained daily log in rewards and lost a casuaal friendly end-game supplement/replacement. Its a pretty messy sacrifice to make.

 

For many, former conquest worked as an end game replacement rather than a supplement. Great thing about it? It kinda made end game available for all.. No matter how casual or what playstyle. You could chase and reach conquest target and feel you had achieved something meaninful that had some value. You could do it via grp content, pvp, pve. You could solo it. You could craft your way there. Now you reach it in 10 mins by selling vendor trash in fleet. So basically, a daily log in reward. Which features about as much gameplay as you'd expect from a daily log in reward.

 

Yes, I consider this balanced in terms of offering rewarding content to all player types and all levels, not just dedicated endgame guilds. Apart from your hyperbolic statement that anyone can reach personal conquest goals with their characters by selling vendor trash and giving gifts to companions (which you can't because conquest objectives are still legacy wide), why is it such a problem for you that for some players it is enough just to do the most mundane of things and not delve into more challenging stuff? They don't take anything away from you by doing that and they don't prevent you from doing as much group content as you like and achieving more than them, alone or with your guild. I am pretty sure no guild will achieve anything on a competitive level when members are only staying on the fleet pressing buttons.

 

You seem to be under the impression that players have to be forced to do group content with the help of the Conquest system or no one will do it anymore and everyone just logs in for the daily log-in reward. The fact that group content is still going on after the update (in my experience even more so) belies that assumption. The reason for that is because doing group content provides you more rewards in terms of loot drops and achievements that you cannot achieve simply by giving your companions a gift or riding a taxi.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[ceciltaru]

I absolutely LOVE these new conquest changes, especially seeing them while i was leveling up a new character yesterday. These changes help new low-level members of guilds feel like they are now helping, it helps small guilds to work toward the frameworks they need to expand their flagships, and helps them with ranking up.

 

I had characters in two of the old mega-guilds on Imp and Pub side, helping them rank up, and working on my Conqueror titles. It was fun back in the day helping and feeling like i was contribution. And then the change happened, and all of a sudden, i'm having to micro-manage how and when I can participate with stuff. "Oh no, I can't go to Nar Shadaa and level up because i need all of those NS Rampage conquest points on my Imp main to help with conquest." "Great, I can't go jump into a flashpoint today because the once per day conquest is needed on my Pub main to finish off their personal conquest, so i can try to work on another pub character in that guild...":

 

I will admit however, that these changes need tweaking. 5k for a comp leveling up, giving a gift to them, selling trash, yes it does seem a bit overboard. With the repeatable mission ones, the gathering ones, etc... these more general ones could be adjusted. 500 conquest for selling trash. 1k for giving a comp a gift, or raising their influence. the devs have said the numbers might be changing in the future as they analyze the numbers, and thats good.

 

I am just really excited for those small guilds that first got to experience getting a flagship, and now can actually start working on expanding it. Thank you devs!

[Kraysk]

I actually agree with topic starter.

Conquest always was important to me, it was one of game activities that make me log into the game, along with GSF.

Now it isn't fun anymore. If i can reach conquest target in 5 minutes it doesn't feel fun or rewarding anymore.

Congratulations, BW. Participation in CQ doesn't make sense anymore. It's a joke and rewards are useless. What am i supposed to do with SRM since all my characters i care about are fully augmented? Vendor it? Because now SRM are cheaper than trash already.

One less reason to play your game.

 

I have almost 2 months of subscription left, and will i uninstall SWTOR or prolong sub, depends only on BW. If they will return old conquest system or will make personal target 500k within current system, ill probably stay.

As alternative way, you can implement another sort of rewards, that could make gsf/pvp players interested.

[xordevoreaux]

 

I have almost 2 months of subscription left, and will i uninstall SWTOR or prolong sub, depends only on BW.

 

Holding your subscription hostage has never worked with Bioware. People have threatened that too many times to count.

Edited April 22, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[Stradlin]

I actually agree with topic starter.

Conquest always was important to me, it was one of game activities that make me log into the game, along with GSF.

Now it isn't fun anymore. If i can reach conquest target in 5 minutes it doesn't feel fun or rewarding anymore.

Congratulations, BW. Participation in CQ doesn't make sense anymore.

 

Yup,I used to really like it. It was a creative, fun and very inclusive replacement for end game in my books. It was cool to consider reaching conq target on a character my personal daily goal. Can do this in 10 mins from fleet now. Every day! It was one of the few truly unique-to-TOR mechanics game has to offer. Now it is trivialized into shapeless pointless log in reward. It was turned into something you complete by selling vendor trash. Madness.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Stradlin

[DarkTergon]

Holding your subscription hostage has never worked with Bioware. People have threatened that too many times to count.

 

I think it gives them a chuckle, I can imagine a board where everyone who said they were quitting is up, and a pool on wether, and when they go

[ShieldProtection]

Sorry mate I don't do endgame content, most people play this to have fun casually and for the story, if you looking for endgame content you are in the wrong game anyways.

 

Now, I "exposed" myself as a "casual player" are you going to hurt me?

[DarthSpuds]

EDIT,

Conquest used to be a mechanic that encourages one to look into content you do with or against other people. l

 

Did it?

 

In all the time I've been doing Conquest I have done precisely ZERO PvP.

Overall I may have done maybe 10-15 Flashpoints with guildies.

But 99% of my Conquest time has been solo.

 

All The Best

[Stradlin]

Sorry mate I don't do endgame content, most people play this to have fun casually and for the story, if you looking for endgame content you are in the wrong game anyways.

 

Now, I "exposed" myself as a "casual player" are you going to hurt me?

 

I recon you've gotten it a bit arse backwards. If you consider Vet/NiM mode ops and such as the end game, I haven't done that in years either. Its just that former conq was seen by many as an extremely inclusive and fairly unique replacement of end game. Reaching conq target was a challenge. One that was available for almost everybody regardless of playstyle. Casual and hardcore ppl alike. All could do it, you just had to get bit involved. Reaching target felt rewarding. Now, reaching target happens while sitting in fleet. In 10 mins.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Stradlin