Conquest lost its shape and purpose

[casirabit]

From the comments I have heard when I logged in, a lot of people are enjoying it. If people want to group up, there is nothing keeping them from grouping up. As someone commented to me when I was reading the activities, you also get more tech fragments doing flashpoints and operations so there is still something for grouping up.

 

Some people just don't group up and giving them these activities actually give them something to do and they are enjoying it.

 

Before someone comes and says but this is an MMO, which they think means you have to group up, it only means there are people online that you can interact with and group up with should you choose. I do group up but under my restrictions and that is my guild and friends. I don't do group pickups and a lot of people I know do the same. This will not stop our guild from doing flashpoints or any other group activity. We enjoy doing things together and don't need a reason to do it. So if your guild is not doing group activities because of this, then maybe you might want to re-examine why they not wanting to group up with anyone anymore.

[Stradlin]

From the comments I have heard when I logged in, a lot of people are enjoying it. If people want to group up, there is nothing keeping them from grouping up. .

 

In current system, every single day, it is by far faster, easier and more efficient to bring a character to conq target by doing irrelevant straight forward derpy things in Fleet. (sell vendor trash, give gifts etc) Do you feel it is 100% ok that this stuff gives much more conquest than content that actually requires you to leave fleet? Do you think sellign vendor trash and so on should indeed be something that gives SUPERIOR conquest rewards to grp content?

 

For sake of argument, I'm perfectly fine admitting it is absolutely and perfectrly fine and healthy to opt in for engaging vendor trash selling playstyle to earn conquest instead of doing various boring things that require other people. All well and good! But should the intense, engaging vendor trash selliong and companion gift giving playstyle be far superior in rewards when compared to grp stuff?

Edited April 22, 2020 by Stradlin

[Phazonfreak]

But should the intense, engaging vendor trash selliong and companion gift giving playstyle be far superior in rewards when compared to grp stuff?

 

Not it should not and yes I am quite certain that the values will be tweaked. That does not mean that the entire system is bad and that suddenly all the people stopped doing group content. Quite the contrary as far as I can see.

 

Seriously, do you have any clear evidence or at least experience that no one is doing group content anymore and is only selling trash to vendors and giving gifts to companions? You seem to be totally stuck on exactly those two examples as if BioWare personally insulted you.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[casirabit]

In current system, every single day, it is by far faster, easier and more efficient to bring a character to conq target by doing irrelevant straight forward derpy things in Fleet. (sell vendor trash, give gifts etc) Do you feel it is 100% ok that this stuff gives much more conquest than content that actually requires you to leave fleet? Do you think sellign vendor trash and so on should indeed be something that gives SUPERIOR conquest rewards to grp content?

 

For sake of argument, I'm perfectly fine admitting it is absolutely and perfectrly fine and healthy to opt in for engaging vendor trash selling playstyle to earn conquest instead of doing various boring things that require other people. All well and good! But should the intense, engaging vendor trash selliong and companion gift giving playstyle be far superior in rewards when compared to grp stuff?

 

I did make a comment about the harder flashpoints and operations that they should give more conquest points. That I will say needs to be done but without reducing the other conquest points. I believe the hard mode/veteran flashpoints and operations should be increased and maybe even PVP (I don't PVP so I can't comment on that actually) because it requires more of an effort for the harder ones.

[Stradlin]

Not it should not and yes I am quite certain that the values will be tweaked. That does not mean that the entire system is bad and that suddenly all the people stopped doing group content. Quite the contrary as far as I can see.

 

Entire system ain't bad, its just terribly off balance. And in some ways, bit less exciting. I already miss feeling like I've achieved something when I ding conq target for my character.

 

 

Never did i say nobody would do group content anymore. Just that when grp content..and everything time consuming pales in comparsion to ease, speed and efficiency with which you can bring a character to conq target every single day by selling vendor trash and doing 2 min face roll heroics, it'll influence how people do their conquest.

 

For many people, good content is whatever makes them reach their goals most efficiently and with greatest of ease. Hammer Station likely isn't the most popular FP due to its excellent design, fun mechanics or interesting narrative. Back when bug hunt was still unnerfed, hundreds of people didn't gather there because they loved that heroic mission so well. Today, people suddenly haven't discovered how fun and engaging it is to give 3 gifts to your companion and then heading to place 5 x deco in your SH. They do it because it is the mostr efficient way to get to target. People end up doing what gives them fastest and easiest rewards. Usually game designers like ensuring content providing such rewards is interesting and diverse. Currently, selling vendor trash and gifting companions is that content.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

I did make a comment about the harder flashpoints and operations that they should give more conquest points. That I will say needs to be done but without reducing the other conquest points. I believe the hard mode/veteran flashpoints and operations should be increased and maybe even PVP (I don't PVP so I can't comment on that actually) because it requires more of an effort for the harder ones.

 

Fully agreed with most things said here!

 

Since you don't pvp, lemme bring you up to speed on its status. Enter queue, join a GSF match and be on the losing side. gzs, you just made LESS CONQUEST than you would have by selling vendor junk.

 

Stick around and complete the GSF weekly mission( 4 matches if you win all, 7 if you lose all.) Grats, completing that weekly just earned you LESS CONQ than you would have if you had completerd a single 2 min lasting face roll heroic. Doing the weekly likely took you at least an hour. Versus 2-5 mins the heroic takes. Also, you do weekly once. Heroic ding happens again next day. Ultimately, WZs, FPs and Ops pale in comparsion to new objectives in similar fashion. Situation with them is just slightly less ridiculous.

 

 

Past two major conq patches have been utterly schizophrenic. Conq tweaks made during the launch of previous expansion aimed to fix things BW felt they " broke" back when xp=conq became a thing.Now they restored the state of affairs they decided needed fixing less than 6 months back. Jus tthat they added some welcome&some utterly non sensical objectives to the mix.

GSF, PvP (and FPs/Ops) should be gone over with magnifying glass and given similar ******** tier low effort conq dings all over the place. If I can earn 5k a day from selling junk, I sure as hell wanna earn 5k a day for destroying a turret in GSF. Since giving companion 3 gifts gives me 10k a day healing an ally in a WZ/FP or capping a sat in GSF should do the same.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Stradlin

[WayzoftheFuzzy]

I mean who doesnt love seeing guilds already at 26 mil CPS 7 hours into reset.

[Stradlin]

^^ I run a medium sized guild. Reaching high yield had for long been "bit exciting" for us. I can't speak for all my guild mates obviously, but personally thats how I and many of our core members liked it. We'd make 10 mils on a busy week, 7-8 during a quiet week. Now, we reached the target in 24 hours. We aren't a conquest guild in any relevant sense. Earning conq is in no way present in our guild rules, activity requirements etc. We'll never gonna push for the massive undetaking winning planets consistently would need. So any and all excitenment from conq we'd get,as a guild, was in ensuring we reach our target every week. That's gone now.

[Phazonfreak]

People end up doing what gives them fastest and easiest rewards. Usually game designers like ensuring content providing such rewards is interesting and diverse. Currently, selling vendor trash and gifting companions is that content.

 

You still fail to provide any credible proof that this is what is happening at the moment in the game. You are only talking about theoretical consequences that you think might happen out of fear that the group content itself is not rewarding enough without more conquest points. I have not seen any evidence yet that people have more problems finding a group for PvE or PvP since the update came out. All I've personally witnessed is more people in the game overall, be it fleet, planets, daily areas or Flashpoints and Ops.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[ElZaguero]

And?

OH NOEZ! Dasty got a crafting mat!!!!!

Dasty

 

OMG, Dasty!! You have ruined the whole game economy!!!

 

I said to my guildies last night, as were sharing our delight with the new Conquest system, that by today somebody would be whinging on the forums that it was too easy. Some people would complain if you brought them breakfast in bed with champagne.

[PaxSithari]

Points you get from any group -based activity are now extremely modest conquest when compared to stuff you do without leaving the fleet. In case you are so adventurous you actually wanna leave the fleet, then stuff you can solo in 2 minutes are far superior conquest when compared to anything that needs a group of other players.

 

Casual player who has..30-45 mins of time to play TOR logs in. He wants to get a some conq real fast in an effort to help the guild/himself. Why on earth would he do -ANYTHING- that requires a group? Dumb stuff that you can do in 5 mins without leaving fleet is 35k conq or something. After that, pick one of the easy heroic missions that are done in few mins. 15k coming your way. There you go, conquest target reached. You did it SO MUCH faster than you could have through any content that requires other people.

 

That player with 30-45 minutes has no time for a full op outside TC/Queen. It takes that long sometimes to just get a group if you're pugging. With smaller/medium guilds, even getting a guild run organized takes that long. If you're lucky, and get into a ready-made group for EV, you can clear it...barely - and that's with skipping trash and no wipes.

 

Also, 30-45 is enough for a few Hammer Station runs, or a few warzones. Not enough to hit your conquest goal. That's the reason those other objectives are there - to help along.

 

So for that player with less than an hour, your options before were Spammer Station, a WZ, or before the nerf KP farm to hit your conquest. Or go back to the previous Rampage objective of killing 300 mobs on a planet. Or other I-WIN brain numbing repetitive grinding.

 

Content with other people is NOT faster for some players. And right now, players have ramped up the toxicity. You want more group content? Fix the community, and some players will go back to that. And for those who don't desire to play with others, let them get their conquest.

 

For me personally, as someone who does quite a lot of group content and pugs a lot, I like these additions. I like seeing a new guidie, who doesn't even have a Legacy name yet, hitting conquest goals on their level 25 toon. I like seeing the level 48 hit goal on their toon because they are doing content they want, and not spamming Hammer Station. I like the small guild I'm in being halfway to goal, just by us playing normally. I like my 2 medium guilds either over goal, or coming close, because people are playing and not worrying about putting off story or alts because they have to work on conquest - and I love how the guild leader is considering moving us up to Large yield because of this change, and that we'll probably hit it too! If you've ever had to get 500,000 Conquest in 1 day (split between 2-3 guildies determined to reach the goal), you'd maybe appreciate these changes too.

[Stradlin]

You still fail to provide any credible proof that this is what is happening at the moment in the game. You are only talking about theoretical consequences that you think might happen out of fear that the group content itself is not rewarding enough without more conquest points. I have not seen any evidence yet that people have more problems finding a group for PvE or PvP since the update came out. All I've personally witnessed is more people in the game overall, be it fleet, planets, daily areas or Flashpoints and Ops.

 

I would think some of it appears almost inevitable. People who enjoy helping their guild and/or themselves by reaching conquest and consider this more important than wether or not they are doing so via grp content or solo content can now stop doing grp content. They don't (necessarily) hate grp content; its just that it is such a hazzle. You now have huge wealth of solo stuff that brings your character to conq target in 15 mins. All of these things are something you can begin instantly and finish in zero to five mins. Meanwhile, guildie group to an FP, stuff via grp finder or sitting in queue for pvp takes effort, waiting, talking. Often even getting it initated is more complicated by design.It doesn't have the same appeal. I would think we both can agree there are folks who see it this way. Arguments, guesses and so on begin with how common it is.

 

When it comes to "hard evidence", you know perfectly fine I'm just a player of this game just like you. " Concrete, hard evidence" involves few months worth of hard BW metrics and server data from last two months or something. getting compared to next two months.

 

Lot of it is just basic human nature and how we play our games. I keep pointing out Hammer Station or Bug Hunt as perfect SWTOR-aligned examples of this behaviour, shame you insist on brushing it aside. No matter which serv you on, I bet you got to listen two weeks worth of LFG spam about grps being very busy with KB mob farm. It didn't happen because people has suddenly discovered its super fun to kill mobs in KP. It was a fast, efficient way to do conq right up until BW nerfed the method. People like getting rewarded and reaching their objectives and goals quickly and efficiently. It is satisfying. Lots of dopamine involved there. Content providing this route will prosper. Content that is an alternate curvy road rather than the efficient shortcut will suffer or wither. Is there something in this reasoning you disagree with?

[WayzoftheFuzzy]

 

I said to my guildies last night, as were sharing our delight with the new Conquest system, that by today somebody would be whinging on the forums that it was too easy. Some people would complain if you brought them breakfast in bed with champagne.

 

Saying we are complaining cause "its too easy" is a bit of an over statement. It's called a goal for a reason... its become a participation trophy.

 

Personally I thought the whole thing was funny when I logged into a character went to Hoth completed 1 herioc plus 5 additional enemies and that character was done for the week. (Please note I have 100% bonus from Strongholds)

Now I can understand the desire of the developers to want content that is easily accessible for casual gamer's as that often takes up the core of your sub/ revenue base. Giving them rewarding content is what keeps them logging in after work or school everyday. These changes to conquest have had some unexpected consequences I would say.

 

Gone are the days of spending all of your evenings grinding characters for conquest. Instead of needing to log in every day over the week to complete conquest over your various characters we are now looking at roughly 20-30 minutes per character if not exclusively completing the "cheese " objectives.

Well what has changed? Group play. What do I mean by this? Simply put its no longer needed in conquests current form. Of course many still will and you are more then welcome to it, but whats the benefit over solo at this point?

 

An example: Running four man herioc murder hobo squads to farm conquest on your last couple characters for the week on Sunday, cause you already completed the operations goals (those once per conquest/per server) on a couple characters with your guild. You completed the flash-point grind objectives on a another character with your guildies. You did conquest as a group because grinding it solo was often inefficient. Key word there is in inefficient. You could still queue into FP's with pugs but there is a chance people leave, don't know the fights, not lvl capped, etc etc. It generally is going take longer but you could still get it done over the course of 3-4 hours per character (and yes you could solo farm to goal faster if you wanted this is purely an example, depends on the week, your character. ilvl, experience, etc).

 

I completed my 5 empire character in roughly 3 and half hours yesterday.. I don't need to log in till next Tuesday, and that is where I think the devs went wrong here. I have no incentive to log in until reset now. Sure sure **double xp this month REEEE** what ever I don't have a need to roll more characters personally, and after this month that excuse is gone. The end game content I want to do in Swtor is conquest, and yes it took time to finish each character's goal and that was part of the fun, it gave me a reason to log in day after day, oh I still need to finish my merc and my assasin this weekend etc etc. I really would only take nights off the game if I was actually done with conquest for the week. so maybe one or two nights off swtor to rest and charge up for the next reset. Maybe play another game or just chill out and watch some youtube.

 

But I'm already done... my work is done for the week.. I don't feel rewarded for my hard work cause there was no hard work. And there lies the problem, in an effort to make a section of the game more inviting they have removed the challenge entirely from it. can it be fixed? I would say so, reducing the point rewards would go a long way. That doesn't mean put them back to where they were but adjustment is a huge need currently.

 

I guess what I really want to say is thanks EA for making sure I have plenty time to play other games the rest of the week now.

[Stradlin]

 

Also, 30-45 is enough for a few Hammer Station runs, or a few warzones. Not enough to hit your conquest goal. That's the reason those other objectives are there - to help along.

 

So for that player with less than an hour, your options before were Spammer Station, a WZ, or before the nerf KP farm to hit your conquest. Or go back to the previous Rampage objective of killing 300 mobs on a planet. Or other I-WIN brain numbing repetitive grinding.

.

 

 

I think we kinda lost one another at some point here. I think it completely, perfectly fine this quite typical busy player who has that 45 mins to play will not reach their conq target within that 45 min timeframe. No great disappoitment or punishment falls upon him if reaching the conq target happens only day or two later, during the next 45 min session he gets. Well, that was how it was in the past. Now that same player will reach conq with 10 min gameplay, barely having to leave the fleet.

 

If you were super driven by conquest in past, you truly had to scour through that weeks objectives like some mercenary. During a well designed conq week, you'd take the varied jobs given and move down the list. PvP weekly, GSF weekly. couple of planetary missions. Rampage here and there. Flashpoint of that given week. Then start crafting a dark project and log out. Next day, look into FP weekly and maybe see about some rampage again.. There, you genuinely benefitted from a legitimately diverse approach to TOR gameplay. You'd do all the game has to offer. From now on, people will have nifty little list of samey ****-tier simple objectives to tick. Doing so costs you 10 mins and buys you like 35k conq. You can try to argue on behalf of the powerful diversity between giving companion a gift, sending companion to sell trash items and placing 5 SH items.. Once done, with those, I guess most efficient method is doing planetary missions til you are bored. Ultimately, likely sum of all parts is less diverse helping of game content for somebody who ends up bringing 3-7 chars/week to conq target.

[Rogozhi]

I was going to make a satirical post asking why there isn't any conquest goals for logging in or going afk. Like you might as well considering the low effort of the new goals. I've only logged on to do crafting since the patch and somehow my main is at 15k conquest. My crafting main is at the same after I switched my utility points. Okay to be fair I didn't switch any, only reselected them.

 

On the one hand this does help my altitis and let's me spread my time between more toons. Once I get my alts past 71 it will also means more SRM to feed my crafting.

 

On the other hand it makes the system a bit pointless. When I came back to the game I figured conquest existed to shape player behaviour towards certain activities over others. These would be grouped loosely under a specific theme. I know it got me to try FP group finder and focus on areas I might not otherwise.

 

But now it just seems like a bonus for putting time into the game doing whatever. I have to play some more, but I have a feeling the OP is accurate in saying you could finish your weekly goal without ever leaving the fleet. The only upside I can see is the price of SRM going down since there will be a greater supply, however that won't happen until the demand for augments and other gear crafted by them drops.

[Stradlin]

I was going to make a satirical post asking why there isn't any conquest goals for logging in or going afk. Like you might as well considering the low effort of the new goals

 

Lol..I did just that yesterday. But it failed. Feels youy can't easily ridicule the current state of affairs. " Whats next, a button in fleet that you press for free conq?!" ...That's literally the case already. Its tough to fall much below getting 5k daily for selling trash. It sounds like a punchline. Specially when you point out it gives you more conq than losing a GSF match does.

[Rogozhi]

Lol..I did just that yesterday. But it failed. Feels youy can't easily ridicule the current state of affairs. " Whats next, a button in fleet that you press for free conq?!" ...That's literally the case already. Its tough to fall much below getting 5k daily for selling trash. It sounds like a punchline. Specially when you point out it gives you more conq than losing a GSF match does.

 

It's absurd and I question why they wanted to make it more of a for sure reward. Are they trying to pump more SRM into the economy? I know I'll likely be netting 25 SRM this week, which will be turned into 5 augments for sale on the GTN. The only thing that really limits my crafting is the price of SRM and Embers and if I can obtain one of them free my policy is to buy one of the others. Mind you I still don't see this as lowering the prices since I price according to the market and avoid undercutting too much.

[PaxSithari]

I mean who doesnt love seeing guilds already at 26 mil CPS 7 hours into reset.

 

The same guilds doing that are also the ones who have the #1 spots on lock for months at a time. This is nothing new.

 

The only difference is small guilds now have a chance at Large yield. Will they crack top 10? No, because you can't compete against a guild with hundreds of players. Let them enjoy their high numbers, they'll get the same rewards as the rest of us.

[PaxSithari]

I think we kinda lost one another at some point here. I think it completely, perfectly fine this quite typical busy player who has that 45 mins to play will not reach their conq target within that 45 min timeframe. No great disappoitment or punishment falls upon him if reaching the conq target happens only day or two later, during the next 45 min session he gets. Well, that was how it was in the past. Now that same player will reach conq with 10 min gameplay, barely having to leave the fleet.

 

If you were super driven by conquest in past, you truly had to scour through that weeks objectives like some mercenary. During a well designed conq week, you'd take the varied jobs given and move down the list. PvP weekly, GSF weekly. couple of planetary missions. Rampage here and there. Flashpoint of that given week. Then start crafting a dark project and log out. Next day, look into FP weekly and maybe see about some rampage again.. There, you genuinely benefitted from a legitimately diverse approach to TOR gameplay. You'd do all the game has to offer. From now on, people will have nifty little list of samey ****-tier simple objectives to tick. Doing so costs you 10 mins and buys you like 35k conq. You can try to argue on behalf of the powerful diversity between giving companion a gift, sending companion to sell trash items and placing 5 SH items.. Once done, with those, I guess most efficient method is doing planetary missions til you are bored. Ultimately, likely sum of all parts is less diverse helping of game content for somebody who ends up bringing 3-7 chars/week to conq target.

 

We lost each other because we don't see eye to eye on this. You have your opinion, and good on you for expressing it and defending it when you have people opposing you.

 

You're fixated on the selling trash or giving a companion a gift. That is 5k per day per legacy. In other words, you do it once on one toon and are locked out of any further reward for 24 hours. It's the same as the Daily PvP - 5k for doing one match. HOWEVER, You're not locked out of GSF or WZ rewards if you choose to do more than 1, AND you get a reward per match. You do a WZ on this toon, you get reward; do it on an alt, get reward. It's just your chosen flavor of drudgery. And your complaint about 1 lost match being worth less than selling trash is ridiculous and flat wrong. Do most PvPers only do 1 match a day? Do they only do 1 match a day across their legacy? The reward for PvP or GSF is lower because you can do it many many times. Same for FP/Op reward, with the bonus of getting conquest points while in the FP.

 

There is diversity that you don't see. As you said, you were basically forced into doing a little PvP, a little PvE, a little GSF, a little grinding on mobs endlessly. That is also unfair - why should someone be forced into playing things they don't excel at or enjoy, just to earn a reward? They should be rewarded for doing what they enjoy, not dragging down your PvP team because they don't have a clue about Huttball and feel uncomfortable being in that arena. It's also not fair to the PvPers to have to carry the deadweight player being forced into it and sucking so bad that the team loses.

 

The person just selling trash or placing 5 decos may not care about anything else in the game, especially any MMO aspects. And while I may balk at such, that serves their purpose. It is a biscuit for their tastes, not mine. Those same people may balk at the person running 20-30 WZ a day. This opened up an area for people to play the way they want and still get nice things like a crate of armor, or stronghold resource decorations, or SRMs. If that's too easy, then so be it. Let people enjoy their easy instant win buttons and get on with their life. They aren't hurting you or me. I may disagree with some of it, but if it helps others who are not me, then good. Let them enjoy their game the way they like.

[xordevoreaux]

When I came back to the game I figured conquest existed to shape player behaviour

After more than enough feedback on it over these past months, devs figured out perhaps we don't like them shaping our behavior, and why should we? So, the alternative is to give us the broadest, richest, deepest set of choices they can think of.

 

Shaping player behavior is the opposite of "play the way you want."

Edited April 22, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[KendraP]

After more than enough feedback on it over these past months, devs figured out perhaps we don't like them shaping our behavior, and why should we? So, the alternative is to give us the broadest, richest, deepest set of choices they can think of.

 

Shaping player behavior is the opposite of "play the way you want."

 

What's sad is it took the sheer dominance of kp farming to show that to BW

[Stradlin]

We lost each other because we don't see eye to eye on this. You have your opinion, and good on you for expressing it and defending it when you have people opposing you.

 

You're fixated on the selling trash or giving a companion a gift. That is 5k per day per legacy. In other words, you do it once on one toon and are locked out of any further reward for 24 hours. It's the same as the Daily PvP - 5k for doing one match.

 

I keep speaking of it since it is such a perfect example and should be nothing besides punchline of a joke. Of course, there are now tons of similar 0 effort daily conq dings besides the engaging and diverse junk seller gameplay. There are now so many 5k daily repeatables of **** tier that you are getting 35-50k or something in 10 mins, without even leaving the fleet. Every day. Since tuesday can be done twice, that's conq target of 8 characters in seven days. Takes you 10 mins/day. I recon that's plenty&enough for most people.You can do the old, far slower and less rewarding grind of -actual group content- for conq, and ding some infinitely repeatable things for as long as the queue stays alive if you really want to. But why earn conquest this way? Selling vendor trash every day is much better, faster and easier conq. Selling garbage and clicking 5 deco items and all of that horsesith brings you to target on 8 characters a week. In 10 mins a day. I'm not sure how many people end up wanting to play more than 8 different characters within one week.

PvPers only do 1 match a day? Do they only do 1 match a day across their legacy? The reward for PvP or GSF is lower because you can do it many many times. Same for FP/Op reward, with the bonus of getting conquest points while in the FP.

Hey, depends on the day really. Sometimes I do 1-2 GSF matches a day. Sometimes 8-10.

Three matches prolly average something like 26k conquest in 45 mins or so. That is so much inferior than what the new overlord of galactic conquest, the junk seller, makes. If junk seller actually decides he can be arsed to leave the fleet and do well chosen selection of 10 or so short, fast and easy planetary heroics, then difference between him and anyone doing grp content of any kind grows even greater.

 

There is diversity that you don't see. As you said, you were basically forced into doing a little PvP, a little PvE, a little GSF, a little grinding on mobs

Bit ironic you speak of diversity I don't see. What you list is how I used to bring chars to target. Little bit of everything every day. Typically, I'd do everything except Ops. I thought it was great. I'd have/get to do most anything this game had to offer in order to reach target within a day. Felt right. Now, I don't have to do that. Not in Rise of The Garbage Dealer -era.

 

That is also unfair - why should someone be forced into playing things they don't excel at or enjoy, just to earn a reward]

There are so many examples of people doing boring mundane thing -because- it earns them various rewards quickly and efficiently. Reaching their objective fast IS the enjoyable bit. That's why its kinda nice to ensure the fastest, most efficient way is in some way engaging gameplay. Now, fastest, most efficient way to bring one character to conq target is doing the mundane garbage stuff in fleet. It likely draws people away from group content. How could it not. For somebody wanting to bring one char a day to target, becoming a garbage dealer is far more efficient and better conquest than doing anything that would force you to leave the fleet.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Stradlin

[Ylliarus]

After more than enough feedback on it over these past months, devs figured out perhaps we don't like them shaping our behavior, and why should we? So, the alternative is to give us the broadest, richest, deepest set of choices they can think of.

 

Shaping player behavior is the opposite of "play the way you want."

 

I agree, and with the previous Conquest system it was - as you said - shaping player behaviour. I didn't mind doing PVP or running FPs, I was doing that anyway for gear and dailies/weeklies. But it was tedious and rarely differed. Now, there's so many objectives to pursue that I am actually interested in trying them out! Especially the new planetary dailies, those are just phenomenal! Planets I used to forget about now have become relevant again and I have always loved doing dailies, now there's even more of them with the planetary bonus missions having become daily repeatables. It's phenomenal, because I finally get to be nicely rewarded for the content that I always loved doing, namely dailies

Edited April 23, 2020 by Ylliarus

[Stradlin]

Only the newly added stuff rewards with all this ease and efficiency. New targets follow this wonderful new philosophy of conq getting downgraded to a fast 10 min requiring log in reward for one character. Any and all older grp aligned stuff still rewards with the old philosophy where reaching conq target within a day was an objective and achievement that took time and effort.

 

So now you have Garbage sellers vastly out performing people doing grp content. These are not "equal" ways of earning conquest now.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Stradlin

[Ylliarus]

Only the newly added stuff rewards with all this ease and efficiency. New targets follow this wonderful new philosophy of conq getting downgraded to a fast 10 min requiring log in reward for one character. Any and all older grp aligned stuff still rewards with the old philosophy where reaching conq target within a day was an objective and achievement that took time and effort.

 

So now you have Garbage sellers vastly out performing people doing grp content. These are not "equal" ways of earning conquest now.

 

I said I wouldn't respond to you anymore, but I have to point out how empty and hollow your argument is. Your only argument is that people can get conquest points for selling garbage. You literally have no valid point beyond that, you have no good argument beyond repeating time and again, that people can get conquest points for selling garbage. That is what your entire argument amounts to, there is no elaboration or extension beyond "people sell garbage".

 

Fine, if this small objective angers and frustrates you so much, let the devs remove that one objective and your argument is done. You disregard all the positive things of the new system just because people can sell garbage and get conquest points for it. The devs can remove that one bit while leaving the rest be and you should be happy. Because you have no valid point beyond "garbage selling". Fine, that tiny, tiny element can be removed, while the rest of the system - which creates incentive to engage in various parts of the game like dailies again and more importantly has become much more alt-friendly - remains as is.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Ylliarus