Game is too difficult now.

[Ahwassa]

I like the new difficulty. I was so bored because it was too easy. Flashpoints are actually fun now.

 

And everyone who complains about H2´s being too hard - go get a friend.

It´s called H2 for a reason

[Knusby]

Isn't the question we have to ask why they dont scale the ops to 75 instead of this?

- It was to much work for them

 

So why we get 5 more level? it took me 20 min to go to 75 with doing story without skip?

 

Why they don't say sth like this:

we have perhaps 8 player in this instance, 2 with 270 3 with 285 3 with 300 gear

we scale the boss in a middle way between this gearstats (hp/dtps/...)

its a simple way to get it harder and not like this...

[Sandrosw]

I will put a quote for an excellent sum up from PTS post compared PTS scalicng stats to live 5.10 (note that it could have changed on live, but probably not much):

 

I had gathered some stats on level sync prior to PTS shutting down and thought it might still be useful to post them.

 

I did this on a Focus Guardian with mostly unaugmented 258 with main/offhand 252.

On PTS I had a second copy boosted to 75 with 306 gear. I was only looking at raw stats dsplayed on character sheet, actual gameplay would depend on other factors like set bous/tactical/amplifiers etc.

 

I did see some weirdness with planets of nominally the same level sync producing different stats - I wanted to recheck buffs etc, but PTS closed before I got a chance.

 

TL;DR On average you will have about 2/3 health and base damage of live (some higher, some lower - most in the 60-70% range)

 

Also a level 75 in top gear (306) synced down to 70 will have less stats than a level 70 in almost top gear (252/258)

 

                              Live                                          PTS
Planet                Level     Health    Damage/Bonus          Level     Health    Damage
Tython                 12           2900     181-214/116.1            10          1384      84-110/34
Coruscant            18          4010      249-296/158.2           17          2222     150-187/75.7
Taris                     22          5395      311-367/201.1           21          2879     199-247/104.1
Nar Shaddaa       26          6745      361-427/229.0           25          4040     256-313/142.2
Tatooine               30          8090      419-497/261.1           29          5172     312-380/177.6
Alderaan              34          9325      495-591/303.8           33          6626     378-460/212.4
Balmorra/Quesh  38        10810      580-695/350.9           37          7707      441-537/248.1
Hoth                     42        12265      655-787/390.5           41          8757     511-625/281.7
Belsavis               46        15045      782-934/481.2           45          9101     557-687/295.0
Voss                     48        18100      896-1057/574.5        48         13519     693-837/404.8
Corellia                52         25023      1173-1353/811.6      50         15482     775-928/469.2
Ilum, Black Hole, Section X - same as Corellia
Makeb                  56         33478     1435-1635/1034.1    55         18499    908-1053/559.0
CZ-198/Oricon      as Makeb on Live                                56         18973     930-1110/572.0
Rishi                     62        58012     2163-2393/1703.2     59         36002    1486-1678/1101.5
Yavin                    as Rishi on Live                                    60         38295    1568-1764/1174.7
Ziost (daily)          as Rishi on Live                                    60         39002    1597-1793/1203.7

Level 70 (mostly 258, main/offhand 252)
Iokath                  70       126789 4177-4283/2653            70       136704    4048-4745/2654.8
Ossus  - as Iokath

Level 75 (306 gear)
Iokath                    -             -                   -                        70        101206    2732-2986/2225.2
Ossus                    -             -                   -                        70        107668    2816-3070/2389.3

 

The thing is that mobs did not get stronger, as in more damage or hp, it is just that you are scaled a few levels lower and in certain places where you maybe had 10 000 hp and before a boss could hit you with ability for 3 000 dmg, you would still have 70% hp and it was no big deal, but if you are now scaled that you have 6 000 hp, the same ability with same damage now hits you for 50% hp and it is more visible.

 

Note that I am not complaining and can still play like before, some thing might be a bit slower but for me it is more fun when I have to actually watch what I am doing, but then I also like running nim opses and I understand not everyone does.

 

But if you want to communicate to devs, please try to be precise (I am a dev and I hate reports with no data or evidence). They did not touch mobs or formulas or such, they touched scaling, so if the game is too hard for you story players, please petition for them to adjust scaling (ideally in a way that you can pick it similar to difficulty - ie story would scale you to lvl 22, veteran lvl 21 and master lvl 20, and make it so it cannot be changed in combat - and then for example increase xp gained from killing mobs based on difficulty, which would also translate to increased renown and conquest reward). If you provide devs what exactly is wrong, it is much more likely they will consider doing something about it. They will not search why exactly some people feel much weaker and some do not, but they can check if the scaling formula does not have some mistake in it.

[Kiesu]

They were changed to be soloable content because people were not doing them enough as 4man content. After that they were soloable content for years and one of the most popular activities for solo players to do. On these quiet years we have had only places in open world that have been busy have been daily heroics areas.

I get you should be able to solo 2+ heroics if you're good. But when the heroic is still named 4H, it should probably be 4x harder, hence the name.

When GF first came out, we had a que for heroics.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Kiesu

[Starknaga]

We will see how this will affect playerbase. I hope i am wrong and there is enough players who prefer heroics that take longer or need groupping to keep the game funded. But i am worried this will lead into more players quitting for good. And it is definately not a good time to go full on "cry, no one cares" because there is many people who do care. We need everyone to stay.

 

In my experience, old players that do play only casually - they are the majority, and they had left because the game went in wrong direction. Too easy and PvP killed off + no end game.

Now the game is more challenging, next move is to bring endgame and competition. We have 2 factions that hate each other - it's completely not used. Other games have weekly PvP events where factions clash in PvP battles to take over cities etc. Why is this not here?

Guilds, now completely meaningless to have them. Guilds should fight and compete. Let's remove that silly planetary conquest system, and make guilds go to the surface and fight for the territories in PvP battles. This will provide endgame, something to do when you already have top tier gear. This will bring back old folks and attract new ones.

 

Anyway I don't mean to derail this thread. Increasing the difficulty of PvE is a step in good direction, now let's make other aspects of the game more exciting.

[Goreshaga]

Hahahah, this game was MUUCH more difficult even it is after 6.0. During the old years, yes, dying was a normal thing. In heroic especially. You all cryers get lazy, couch potatoes with yuour comp to ran H4 alone..

 

Guess what this is MMORPG not a single player pc game and H4 means 4 players, so stick with other ppl, be social, if you have problem with that? Just cry, no one cares:)

I don't have a best gear do new stuff and heroics with gear about 246, yes harder but made it, so learn how to play and gets better:)

 

That is good for some diff.reasons, ppl who fight stronger mobs outside are great target for PK/PVP. And I'm sticked with pvp phases with this comeback

Yeah obviously, insulting people who prefer to play solo for various reasons is absolutely going to convince them to group with people like you...

 

Let me tell you a story :

When i was kid i didn't like cumcumber, until the day one of my teacher thought it would be a good idea to force me eat every bit of cumcumber i had in my plate, even though i told her i did not like it. Guess what, i ate until i throwed up on the table.

Now, more than 20 years later, i can't even smell cumcumber without feeling like throwing up, and i'm certainly never going to eat that ever again.

 

Conclusion : you can't force people do (or eat) things they don't like unless you want to disgust them from that forever...

 

I do sometimes group with one of my friends to do things together like getting the Start Fortress companions, but whenever i'm grouping with anyone, even just that friend, i start lagging like crazy, which is clearly not enjoyable.

Last time i grouped up with him for weeklies on Black Hole, it took me twice as long with him than it usually takes me to solo the hole area...

And clearly, if i can't solo something for whatever reason, i'll just not do it rather than group with other people, because lagging behind is clearly not fun to me and it's probably not fun for the people i group up with either.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Goreshaga

[MrJunay]

If solo players are forced to join groups because of the complexity of the content, many of them simply will not do this content.

I don’t see any motivation to go through heroics with increased complexity now, because I will spend twice as much time on them, but I will get the same reward as before. Increased complexity must be offset by increased reward.

[Noerra]

If solo players are forced to join groups because of the complexity of the content, many of them simply will not do this content.

 

This is what many don't seem to understand. And the fact that when people run out of content they want to do they quit.

 

Why didn't they ADD additional difficulty on heroics (veteran heroics, master heroics) with extra rewards? When you change system you might make it better for someone but same time you make it worse for someone else. SWTOR cannot afford to lose any more players, they should not change things worse for anyone.

 

I got nothing against having more difficult content available and having more group content but it should not be away from those who want to keep doing what they been happily doing for years.

[jstankaroslo]

I don’t see any motivation to go through heroics with increased complexity now, because I will spend twice as much time on them, but I will get the same reward as before. Increased complexity must be offset by increased reward.

 

I must admit I don't understand this mindset. So basically you're saying you DON"T like doing Heroics, and they are kind of chore, that needs to be done as quickly as possible? And you are only doing them because you get paid for them -the rewards?

If this is true, then there was something wrong with the entire system. Players doing things they don't like...

 

Games should be fun, not chore. I only spend time in game on things I like. If it's not fun, I'll do something else in game or outside the game. There's to much to life then to spend your free time doing things you hate...

[Kiesu]

If solo players are forced to join groups because of the complexity of the content, many of them simply will not do this content.

What a weird argument.

I'm not a solo player so I dont do solo dailies unless I absolutely have to grind reputation for something.

I dont see anything wrong with not doing content you dont like doing.

"Oh but we used to like doing heroics solo! So now they have to be solo forever!"

Well I liked to do heroics back before lvsync when they were actual heroics. Wheres my fun huh? Games change, deal with it. I did.

[XaronTN]

There is a lot of Solo content, but if there will be almost every GROUP content doable solo, this game lost its purpose and that is MMORPG to play with other people, it is not solo PC game, so you have to deal with it or not playing it.

 

So yes, forcing ppl to group to do group content is good, especially if a full group T,H,D,D is needed:) that is just great and I´m so happy about it:)

If u like solo, then do just dailies, and no heroics for you.

 

It was a mistake from BW to make Group content for solo, because ppl don´t want to make a 4ppl group, there should not be any allowance, this game is based on DPS-HEAL-TANK group system, so otherwise you group or you will not be able to do that content devs never should allow that so I´m happy that not with only story but they comeback a little to this element

Edited October 25, 2019 by XaronTN

[Suzsi]

They Heroics were changed so you could do them solo, same with story flashpoints but it seems they changed their mind now?

 

I ran some heroics on my lvl 52 to get to 53 and face rolled them the same as always.

[juliushorst]

So yes, forcing ppl to group to do group content is good, especially if a full group T,H,D,D is needed:) that is just great and I´m so happy about it:)

If u like solo, then do just dailies, and no heroics for you.

 

You'll force some to do group content and some to unsubscribe - at the end of the day the game's main goal is to keep and extend subscriber base so I wouldn't call it 'good'.

Heroics are strange anyway... If I want to do group content I do a flashpoint or an operation, depending on how much time I have. Heroics used to be a way to earn quick buck. If they lost this function there is no point to do them.

[SerraShar]

There is a lot of Solo content, but if there will be almost every GROUP content doable solo, this game lost its purpose and that is MMORPG to play with other people, it is not solo PC game, so you have to deal with it or not playing it.

 

So yes, forcing ppl to group to do group content is good, especially if a full group T,H,D,D is needed:) that is just great and I´m so happy about it:)

If u like solo, then do just dailies, and no heroics for you.

 

It was a mistake from BW to make Group content for solo, because ppl don´t want to make a 4ppl group, there should not be any allowance, this game is based on DPS-HEAL-TANK group system, so otherwise you group or you will not be able to do that content devs never should allow that so I´m happy that not with only story but they comeback a little to this element

 

I don't know if you were around before when heroic + 4 were a thing. But it was never 'Peoples wanna play SOLO so they made Heroic+ 2 to SOLO'' . It was that peoples stopped doing heroic period . I...I'm gonna say I, cose I remember ending up with MONTHS (4-6months) of a list of Heroic+ 4 on multiple planets and can't find ANYONE to do them with .

 

And when you get lucky and find a group ? They either bail half way, or quit before it start ''Gottago sorrybye'' .

 

Don't ask me why peoples stopped doing them back then, but it was hard to find any group And there was always that idiot in the background who answer you on the chat ''LOLZ Dude just skip them! Nobody do them anymore LOLOL'' .

 

It's not an MMORPG, it really never was . They lost alot of sub and turned f2p real fast . Just look at how they downsized the server and what not .

 

You are allergic to SOLO stuff ? fine. But don't tell peoples and preach at them how to play a game they are paying to play .

[juliushorst]

Now the game is more challenging, next move is to bring endgame and competition. We have 2 factions that hate each other - it's completely not used. Other games have weekly PvP events where factions clash in PvP battles to take over cities etc. Why is this not here?

Guilds, now completely meaningless to have them. Guilds should fight and compete. Let's remove that silly planetary conquest system, and make guilds go to the surface and fight for the territories in PvP battles. This will provide endgame, something to do when you already have top tier gear. This will bring back old folks and attract new ones.

 

I would like to remind you, pvp instances are in the game and are ghost towns. I certainly wouldn't like to go about my business and find myself in the middle of some pvp battle in the city my business is. Even worse if I was flagged to participate by default.

[Ardrossan]

I haven't dived into this yet. I'm hoping they'll do an emergency patch to fix some of this stuff.

 

What I'm curious about is this: I use the White Acute Module while leveling on my chars. That means that I stay at or below the planet baseline; if I go over the planet level [10 on starter planets], I leave without doing any more non-class quests. So I follow what's on the galaxy map, not what was previously the level sync.

 

Would there be any difference in gameplay for me in the new version?

[casirabit]

I get you should be able to solo 2+ heroics if you're good. But when the heroic is still named 4H, it should probably be 4x harder, hence the name.

When GF first came out, we had a que for heroics.

 

Yea we did and people stopped doing them and therefore they were almost impossible to get a group for. We did them as a guild but see we had a guild but I also know people who didn't and you would hear them over and over in general asking for people to please que for heroics or join their group so they could do it and so it went from people doing them to not doing them which is why I think they made it possible for them to be soloed.

[casirabit]

There is a lot of Solo content, but if there will be almost every GROUP content doable solo, this game lost its purpose and that is MMORPG to play with other people, it is not solo PC game, so you have to deal with it or not playing it.

 

So yes, forcing ppl to group to do group content is good, especially if a full group T,H,D,D is needed:) that is just great and I´m so happy about it:)

If u like solo, then do just dailies, and no heroics for you.

 

It was a mistake from BW to make Group content for solo, because ppl don´t want to make a 4ppl group, there should not be any allowance, this game is based on DPS-HEAL-TANK group system, so otherwise you group or you will not be able to do that content devs never should allow that so I´m happy that not with only story but they comeback a little to this element

 

No forcing people to group is wrong. Having things you can group up is one thing but making someone group up with some of the people I have seen on this game, I wouldn't do it and I do group up but I am very selective I do it with. My guild and my boyfriend are about the extent of it except on occasion if I see a person having a hard time but start acting like a jerk watch how fast I drop group. Behavior is a lot of the reason people don't group up. When people start being respectful more people will group up but until that happens ....

[SerraShar]

No forcing people to group is wrong. Having things you can group up is one thing but making someone group up with some of the people I have seen on this game, I wouldn't do it and I do group up but I am very selective I do it with. My guild and my boyfriend are about the extent of it except on occasion if I see a person having a hard time but start acting like a jerk watch how fast I drop group. Behavior is a lot of the reason people don't group up. When people start being respectful more people will group up but until that happens ....

 

and if there was any kind of moderation and idiot stomping..then maybe. But it was the jungle outta there.

 

were you (or heard) about the Sorc strike back a couple of years ago? was Hilaaarious!

[casirabit]

I don't know if you were around before when heroic + 4 were a thing. But it was never 'Peoples wanna play SOLO so they made Heroic+ 2 to SOLO'' . It was that peoples stopped doing heroic period . I...I'm gonna say I, cose I remember ending up with MONTHS (4-6months) of a list of Heroic+ 4 on multiple planets and can't find ANYONE to do them with .

 

And when you get lucky and find a group ? They either bail half way, or quit before it start ''Gottago sorrybye'' .

 

Don't ask me why peoples stopped doing them back then, but it was hard to find any group And there was always that idiot in the background who answer you on the chat ''LOLZ Dude just skip them! Nobody do them anymore LOLOL'' .

 

It's not an MMORPG, it really never was . They lost alot of sub and turned f2p real fast . Just look at how they downsized the server and what not .

 

You are allergic to SOLO stuff ? fine. But don't tell peoples and preach at them how to play a game they are paying to play .

 

Very much this. I sometimes think the ones that want to put the heroics back into group forgot how difficult it was to find groups for the heroics back then. At the beginning, sure people grouped for them but after the newness wore off they stop doing it and just skipped them. I was able to do some because of my guild but not everyone has that luxury or they are on when guild members aren't I think they are wearing rose colored glasses forgetting how hard it was to get groups for these heroics and this is why they were made to be soloed because it wasn't because people asked for it, it was because no one was doing them.

[Kiesu]

Yea we did and people stopped doing them and therefore they were almost impossible to get a group for. We did them as a guild but see we had a guild but I also know people who didn't and you would hear them over and over in general asking for people to please que for heroics or join their group so they could do it and so it went from people doing them to not doing them which is why I think they made it possible for them to be soloed.

People didnt stop doing them. The playerbase shrunk. Going on the planet to yell for heroics was no-brainer, people went to fleet to call for planet heroics. The only time I remember people legit not doing heroics, was when our servers were due to merges due to player loss. Never had issues getting heroic groups any other time in the games history.

People were definitely doing them.

 

Though, their rewards were also better for their respective levelcaps then. Currently they'd be too low to justify the extra effort. Increasing rewards should be easy enough task to make that a non-issue however.

[casirabit]

People didnt stop doing them. The playerbase shrunk. Going on the planet to yell for heroics was no-brainer, people went to fleet to call for planet heroics. The only time I remember people legit not doing heroics, was when our servers were due to merges due to player loss. Never had issues getting heroic groups any other time in the games history.

People were definitely doing them.

 

Though, their rewards were also better for their respective levelcaps then. Currently they'd be too low to justify the extra effort. Increasing rewards should be easy enough task to make that a non-issue however.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because people were told in general chat when looking for them no one does them anymore. Might been your server but on my server people were not doing them when they were relevant. Most waited until they got to max level, if they wanted to do them, and went back and did them solo because there was no level sync.

[iwannaplayalot]

I feel the same way too, I'm also a solo player. I took my Lightning Sorc to Korriban. She is lvl 70 with a 50 companion. She is totally geared in 252 Ossus gear. It took almost 25 seconds to take down the large Klorrslug, and even the small ones were tougher.

I went to the 2nd heroic and even Lord Sundar was a chore.

Also the YELLOW enemies come from nowhere and mob you. Yellow aren't supposed to react at all, but now they do.

 

So you fight the 2 guards at the front, take out the 2 at the stairs, and all the droids come out and attack at the same time. Lord Sundar would take about 5 sec to kill, he is now 10 sec plus his mob of droids randomly come alive too.

 

The 2 simplest heroics in game, now take a lot longer and much more effort to complete. Regular content for pve is much more time consuming and harder ; npc's are tougher, you and your comp are nerfed...not fun at all

[IoNonSoEVero]

I was also able to solo the H4 there, including the last boss, but i always thought it took far too long when killing everything.

So my solution was :

- if on a stealth character, just stealth through everything and run til the end, launch the grenade, suicide jump to teleport back to the entrance.

- if not on a stealth character, run and let my companion distract the mobs untill my companion dies, and keep running while self healing if i had self heals until a safe spot near the end, call back my companion, start running again, launch the grenade, suicide jump to go back to the entrance.

- If no self heal, same as above until i die as well, respawn, take my companion back, repeat untill the last part, launch the grenade, suicide jump to teleport.

 

It was just way faster to do like this than kill everything and far less boring, even on a character who would die at least once or twice. (i was pretty bad there with my smuggler, and his lv 10 something companion was actually doing pretty much nothing so that's why i just decided to abandon Corso there and let him die like an idiot, and then realised i actually liked it much better than fighting everything and then did this on every non stealth character i have)

I haven't tried doing this since the change though, so mabe it's slower now, but i guess it's still faster than killing everything, especially if the very first group can kill us now.

 

I changed my companion to the ship droid, let the mobs kill him while I ran and ended up doing the run through thing. I wasn't on a stealther, and I had already done a number of the dailies and didn't want to waste them by not getting the weekly. The repair bills from that are a bit steep, though, and I don't think I want to bother with that all the time.

 

I actually liked fighting through this one before the change, but now it seems like the only way to do it will be with my SIN and smuggler who can stealth. I doubt I'm going to bother, though. I already unsubbed.

Edited October 25, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[IoNonSoEVero]

I must admit I don't understand this mindset. So basically you're saying you DON"T like doing Heroics, and they are kind of chore, that needs to be done as quickly as possible? And you are only doing them because you get paid for them -the rewards?

If this is true, then there was something wrong with the entire system. Players doing things they don't like...

 

Games should be fun, not chore. I only spend time in game on things I like. If it's not fun, I'll do something else in game or outside the game. There's to much to life then to spend your free time doing things you hate...

 

We have a winner. The daily areas and heroics ARE a chore for the most part. They are things to be done to level up, earn credits or crates, etc. When the reward/fun vs. time/effort ratio tips too far to one side, or require things like grouping that players do NOT want to do (those who group already do), they become way too much of a chore to bother with.

 

I can't understand why you would think that making it three times as long/tedious or forced horrible grouping to complete would be more fun or would motivate anyone to play it.

Edited October 25, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero