PvP Suggestion: Revising Electro Net

[Delani]

To come back to your suggestions, they were all good ideas, its just hard to say what is best to implement. For me the thing that sucks is the resolve thing. Its really silly that you are able to avoid being stunned and killed due to the resolve mechanic, but electronet applies even with full resolve which makes things really complicated.

 

One Merc that saves the net for the right moment is a game changer when it comes to killing many classes that can vanish, like Shadow, Scoundrel and Sent, then those that can PW. So I would probably go for this option to cancel the enet effects when resolve is full.

 

Cancel net effects and after dmg effects once you use breaker also

[Lhancelot]

This, so much. One net is annoying, 2 is bad, and 3 is just getting ridiculous.

 

A Bastion debuff or having net affect resolve would be minor change, but a reasonable one.

 

I suspect most of the people arguing against any change to e-net are either merc players, or have never had the pleasure of being the focus target of 2 or more merc/mando's.

 

Yeah I never faced 2+ mercs in PVP before, ever in all the years of playing SWTOR on my sorc healer. I am sure I never got E-netted more than once in any fight, either.

 

I am against this idea of a nerf because it aint needed. Suddenly now, when the game has more CC, CC-immunities and outrageous speed buffs (hi predation) now we need to nerf e-net?

 

The biggest problem with mercs is even when focused, their DCDs enable them to pour out damage while staying alive due to their self healing DCDs and reflections etc. E-net has nothing to do with this.

 

The issue with agreeing with those wanting a nerf is there's no guarantee BW will do as proposed.

 

More often than not when a class is "adjusted" the abilities are so re-worked the class ends up no longer fun to play and at the bottom of the heap for years.

 

Address the real issues which is straggling classes that really are quite weak in PVP that need some love, and if Mercs are to be adjusted buff up their burst back to where it once was, and drop some of the percentages on their present DCDs. Make their present DCDs have less up time, and make them less effective. This would have to be applied to only the DPS specs, obviously if the DCDs of the healing spec was altered it would end up even worse than it already is. The Healing Merc spec needs more love but that's another topic.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Lhancelot

[JediMasterAlex]

nice to come back to this thread hoping there is some educated discussions to reply to, only witness 13 pages of 3 people yelling at each other off topic

 

take it to pms and hug it out jesus christ

 

I offered, but he wanted to keep it here. I do apologize for contributing to derailing the thread somewhat, but I just couldn't help myself, it was too much fun, plus some of the earlier stuff was actually relevant.

 

The biggest problem with mercs is even when focused, their DCDs enable them to pour out damage while staying alive due to their self healing DCDs and reflections etc. E-net has nothing to do with this.

 

That is true, and others brought that up earlier in the thread, but there's no reason Bioware can't do both. I'm also not clear on exactly what your objection is. These proposed nerfs would have virtually no effect on an individual merc. They would only affect multiple mercs, when nets become disproportionately difficult to deal with.

Edited June 11, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[kissingaiur]

Let me be clear, again, none of my suggestions are to remove Electro net, they are to make the ability readjusted for the game as it stands now. I am also not suggesting doing all of them. Doing any one of these changes would be a massive improvement for the quality of life in PvP. Either putting a small bastion buff to allow players to not be multiple netted in the cd of net (90 seconds would be fine), a second or two reduction in the length of the net (second reduction i could be the difference between life or death), or re-evaluating how it mechanically works during white bar. These are realistic and fair suggestions.

 

For those who been around for a long time, we all know Mercs have mechanical issues in pvp, even now. To say that, for example adding a 90s bastion buff to net is going to destroy their usefulness in ranked is being overly histrionic. Even to suggest such a thing that net is the only thing keeping Mercs viable in ranked speaks more for how much the of the class needs to be adjusted overall and it has little to do with net itself.

 

I'm not here to argue that Mercs are overpowered, I am here saying that Mercs are different now than they were back when net was added to the game. Just because Mercs are poorly designed for pvp mechanically, with long cast times, channels and weak when tunneled, this doesn't mean we cannot be critical of overtuned abilities (that goes for any class in pvp for that matter).

[Zurules]

I'm not here to argue that Mercs are overpowered, I am here saying that Mercs are different now than they were back when net was added to the game. Just because Mercs are poorly designed for pvp mechanically, with long cast times, channels and weak when tunneled, this doesn't mean we cannot be critical of overtuned abilities (that goes for any class in pvp for that matter).

 

I do not see how mercs are designed poorly for pvp. The long cast times and weakness while being tunneled are the weaknesses that mercs have had since the beginning of the game. Net is a very strong ability that allows them a small window to do their damage with those long cast times, because if the target was a melee champ, they can rocket out and attack without being interrupted unless the melee champ decides to go and interrupt. In that case he will take more damage from the dot effect while often using an extra dcd to get close enough to interrupt.

 

I'll say it again, this is a team game. People need to learn how to use your teammates to stay alive. Their is a reason why the top teams always cc out the tank/heals and often both at the same time when going for a kill.

[kissingaiur]

I do not see how mercs are designed poorly for pvp. The long cast times and weakness while being tunneled are the weaknesses that mercs have had since the beginning of the game. Net is a very strong ability that allows them a small window to do their damage with those long cast times, because if the target was a melee champ, they can rocket out and attack without being interrupted unless the melee champ decides to go and interrupt. In that case he will take more damage from the dot effect while often using an extra dcd to get close enough to interrupt.

 

I'll say it again, this is a team game. People need to learn how to use your teammates to stay alive. Their is a reason why the top teams always cc out the tank/heals and often both at the same time when going for a kill.

 

mercs deal with: long cast times, channels, weak to interrupts, hard to kite and do damage, shut down when tunneled- these are all really not strong qualities to have in pvp

 

good mechanically in pvp is: high mobility, good dcds, a lot of instant abilities and casting stuff on the move, interrupt immunity, cc immunity

 

i was having a discussion with a friend of mine the other day about the comparison of range dps in ranked. the question was brought up why range classes are just bad in teams currently and why snipers are the top choice for range dps. its just because snipers are just mechanically better designed and dont suffer from the same way sorcs dps and mercs do. they dont suffer from interrupts, have cc immunity up half the time ; they just have a different experience than other range in this game. while if you were a merc or sorc you just have a mara sit on you and you really cannot do **** about it

 

dont get me wrong, the new changes to mercs helped them in a way. now they can just stand there and take the dick more while doing their dps while also having some more dcds to rotate but its kinda only a band aid. instead of more dcds they need more instant abilities which are far more cost effective in a pvp environment. i still think mercs need more redesign personally.

 

if the devs just made mercs more of a niche in pvp they wouldnt need net as a crutch when arguing their effectiveness

Edited June 11, 2019 by kissingaiur

[foxmob]

IO has plenty of instants but the resource drain is unmanageable to really burst or switch. sustained is near top in the game though. so tough to change.

[Lhancelot]

For those who been around for a long time, we all know Mercs have mechanical issues in pvp, even now. To say that, for example adding a 90s bastion buff to net is going to destroy their usefulness in ranked is being overly histrionic.

 

Is e-net breaking team ranked matches?

 

If so then fine adjust it. If not, and it's only with rare instances due to class stacking e-net is a real problem I'd rather not see BW making any decisions on class nerfing unless it's something that impacts larger facets of the game and not just a very tiny niche.

 

From the perspective of someone that plays regs 90% and solo ranked 10% I don't believe an e-net nerf as you describe would cripple the usefulness of mercs in ranked. I agree, that is being hyperbolic and irrational.

 

 

 

That is true, and others brought that up earlier in the thread, but there's no reason Bioware can't do both. I'm also not clear on exactly what your objection is. These proposed nerfs would have virtually no effect on an individual merc.

 

 

My concern is number one what exactly would BW do if they decided the class needed e-net to be revisited. BW never adjusts anything lightly, you know that. Imagine what they will come up with if they "fix" e-net? Full removal? Good chance.

 

I seen many abilities where people voiced their extreme displeasure with certain things, and in knee-jerk fashion BW does something totally off the mark to address the problem. So many classes have had their class defining abilities neutered over the years to the point they don't even have a class defining ability now.

 

I mean honestly in regs and even in solo ranked I never viewed e-net as a scourge that needed abolished and I am afraid to see what "solution" they come up for this supposed "problem" that isn't even a problem to 99.999% of the players in the game.

 

Maybe if I predominantly played team ranked 90% of the time, and regs 10% of the time my perspective on e-net would be different. I'd rather see more impactful changes to mercs if they are going to do adjustments. Push Merc burst back up, and tone down their DCDs so they are more of a typical glass cannon that requires a bit more support instead of the very self-sufficient walking tome of deaths they are now.

 

I just view other changes more important, and disagree with nerfs especially when that nerf is only helping the least played game mode on swtor; team ranked. Maybe that's a little unfair, but I believe my suggestions on balancing the Merc DPS class would bring a better solution to an actual problem which is the fact the Merc DPS could use some mechanic changes especially regarding their DCDs.

 

If they are going to consider adjusting and balancing classes, e-net is pretty far down the line imo to worry about. E-net just never impacted my gaming experience to a point I felt it was broken, not like many of the other issues we have had and some that still exist. Maybe in a team ranked atmosphere this is more of a problem and an epidemic, if it is it's one that I never noticed.

[RACATW]

This is the most intense forum pvp I've seen to date.

 

 

Enet lasts too long and does too much damage. Really, it should do next to no damage (similar to force leap which applies a root effect and builds rage / focus)

 

It's duration is also longer than gores overall for less CD. So it needs to be nerfed to at least gore level of duration.

Edited June 11, 2019 by RACATW

[Lhancelot]

mercs deal with: long cast times, channels, weak to interrupts, hard to kite and do damage, shut down when tunneled- these are all really not strong qualities to have in pvp

 

good mechanically in pvp is: high mobility, good dcds, a lot of instant abilities and casting stuff on the move, interrupt immunity, cc immunity

 

i was having a discussion with a friend of mine the other day about the comparison of range dps in ranked. the question was brought up why range classes are just bad in teams currently and why snipers are the top choice for range dps. its just because snipers are just mechanically better designed and dont suffer from the same way sorcs dps and mercs do. they dont suffer from interrupts, have cc immunity up half the time ; they just have a different experience than other range in this game. while if you were a merc or sorc you just have a mara sit on you and you really cannot do **** about it

 

dont get me wrong, the new changes to mercs helped them in a way. now they can just stand there and take the dick more while doing their dps while also having some more dcds to rotate but its kinda only a band aid. instead of more dcds they need more instant abilities which are far more cost effective in a pvp environment. i still think mercs need more redesign personally.

 

if the devs just made mercs more of a niche in pvp they wouldnt need net as a crutch when arguing their effectiveness

 

A lot of this is true, I guess I am being argumentative for the wrong reasons on the proposed nerf to e-net. If we can assume BW actually would add only a 90 sec bastion to e-net I wouldn't care.

 

I just wish people like you and others who have a high tier of knowledge about the classes in the game made a more concerted effort to propose ways to improve more than just very fine mechanical tunings to very specific class abilities that only help in team ranked.

 

Why not use the knowledge you players have and suggest other mechanical changes to better class balance, on a much larger scale? This e-net thing just annoys me tbh, lol. I remember reading about e-net needing nerfed 5+ years ago!

 

Instead of e-net being altered, i rather see changes that actually impact the entire meta from regs, to solo, to team ranked. You surely see other imbalance issues in team ranked that are also affecting regs and solo, right? Why not offer ideas on how to better the game in a much broader way?

 

I can't help it I get suspicious when a highly skilled ranked player comes to the forums proposing a nerf to a class ability I personally have very little problem with. It seems an agenda is in place, maybe I am just paranoid.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Lhancelot

[Rion_Starkiller]

This is the most intense forum pvp I've seen to date.

 

Looks like Hottie scampered into the scene and killed them off while they were both at half health.

[Lhancelot]

I view threads like this as entertainment threads and nothing more tbh. We have not seen any significant fundamental changes to any class mechanics or abilities etc. for years now. Theorycrafting if you will.

[JediMasterAlex]

mercs deal with: long cast times, channels, weak to interrupts, hard to kite and do damage, shut down when tunneled- these are all really not strong qualities to have in pvp

 

This is just so wrong. Mercs are by far the best dps pvp class right now. Second isn't even close. Mercs can easily kite and do damage. They do have several abilities with cast times...as do most classes. Their dcds are far and away the best of any dps class. Most importantly, they can face tank damage while still outputting essentially their max dps, uninterrupted. They are the hardest class to shut down when tunneling them, because they have so many anti-focus abilities, which again, allow them to dps at the same time, unlike say sorcs. When they get in trouble, they can easily LOS and use their great self heals to stay alive for extended periods of time.

 

The best strategy when facing mercs is to just cc them until everything else is dead. Focusing them is almost certainly going to lead to a loss unless they are very bad.

 

Is e-net breaking team ranked matches?

 

No. That is what caused the initial argument between myself and Slimey that took up the first few pages of this thread. His point was that mercs are hardly used in group ranked as it is, and nerfing net would just make mercs even less useful in that game mode. That is when I made the point, that you echoed, which is that group ranked is dead, so we shouldn't be concerned with it. The only place where multiple mercs using nets one after the other is solo ranked, and it happens all the time. It gives the team with stacked mercs a big advantage. It's not impossible to overcome, but nerfs to stacked nets would certainly be a welcome change.

 

Looks like Hottie scampered into the scene and killed them off while they were both at half health.

 

I mean, I was done replying to him at that point, didn't you notice the time lapse? There was nothing more to say to be honest.

Edited June 11, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Zurules]

mercs deal with: long cast times, channels, weak to interrupts, hard to kite and do damage, shut down when tunneled- these are all really not strong qualities to have in pvp

 

good mechanically in pvp is: high mobility, good dcds, a lot of instant abilities and casting stuff on the move, interrupt immunity, cc immunity

 

i was having a discussion with a friend of mine the other day about the comparison of range dps in ranked. the question was brought up why range classes are just bad in teams currently and why snipers are the top choice for range dps. its just because snipers are just mechanically better designed and dont suffer from the same way sorcs dps and mercs do. they dont suffer from interrupts, have cc immunity up half the time ; they just have a different experience than other range in this game. while if you were a merc or sorc you just have a mara sit on you and you really cannot do **** about it

 

dont get me wrong, the new changes to mercs helped them in a way. now they can just stand there and take the dick more while doing their dps while also having some more dcds to rotate but its kinda only a band aid. instead of more dcds they need more instant abilities which are far more cost effective in a pvp environment. i still think mercs need more redesign personally.

 

if the devs just made mercs more of a niche in pvp they wouldnt need net as a crutch when arguing their effectiveness

 

This is how I see the 3 range classes in terms of strengths and weaknesses:

 

Mercs

 

Strengths: Can off heal, good face-tank dcds, can cleanse tech cc (flashbang), unique offense ability--> net, able to dps while moving.

 

Weaknesses: Can get shutdown via chained interrupts. (note: they do still have a lot of insta cast abilities), dcds only good for themselves and are useless once popped and opponents get off you, No team utility ability (defensive), cannot cleanse dots.

 

Sorcs

 

Strenghts: Best off healer, Highest mobility(kiting), can cleanse force cc, teammate pull (team ulitity), Has 2 ways outside of cc break to avoid the vulnerability that stuns create, can dps while moving.

 

Weaknesses: Lowest single target burst damage (no true single target burst spec), very squishy, not good dcds that allows face-tanking, can be somewhat shutdown via chain interrupts, cannot cleanse dots (other than barrier)

 

Snipers

 

Strenghts: CC immunity, cannot be shutdown by interrupts, team shield (team utility), decent face-tank dcds. AoE accuracy debuff (offensive vs snipers and defensive vs all others but also at times including snipers), Is the only counter to other snipers cc immunity, can cleanse dots (dodge).

 

Weaknesses: Cannot off heal, cannot really dps while moving (not in cover), cannot cleanse any cc's. has literally nothing he can do if stunned, hardest hitting ability can be dodged by most classes if not stunned.

 

 

 

The reason snipers are the best choice for ranged dps in 4v4 group ranked, is mainly because of the cc immunity. If the other team does not have another sniper on their team, this is a huge advantage because cc is super important to getting people to force dcds and eventually get kills. Every other weakness in the game can be countered in someway by other classes, snipers are the only ones who counter the snipers greatest strength (cc immunity). This is the only issue in terms of balance/game design I feel is in the game. This where I would like to see "Weaker" dot specs have an abilitiy that can single target snipers and knock them out of cover for a short duration (2 seconds) on a like 45 seconds cd.

 

Range classes are not bad in team ranked. They all have strengths and weaknesses that require different moments of teamwork to effectively play. One of my favorite examples in history was during the mara smash meta. People thought it was super op. I forget who it was who came up with the counter for it (I think it was mudclot). They played double tk/lightning into it and worked as a team using the knock back roots and bubble stun to kite as a 4 man unit to beat the double smash maras.

 

The balance in this game is extremely complex. Most people don't think about all the combinations of weaknesses and strengths of all the specs of classes, let alone practice all the combinations. There is an insane amount of teamwork required to play the game at its highest level. I have so much fun thinking about all these aspects and then trying to figure out the best strategy to beat what ever combination I play but also go up against. During the time before every class got so much mobility, one of my favorite strategies to play was double pt (burst), sin tank and op healer. It was my favorite because it was designed to win the round in the opener. We would do a triple pull on a target that could not do anything to buy time. The sin would initiate from stealth. 30m behind him the op would stealth one of the pts for the second pull, and sitting back 30m behind them near out spawn would be the visible pt for the third pull. After the sin would initiate, he would then knock back root the other 3 members, then grenade. Before they would get close enough to save their teammate, he would be dead. This is an example of a unique strategy that i came up with. After doing it once or twice vs good teams, it was very easy to counter and then beat us, but it was super fun to pull off.

 

Anyways, snipers cannot do a lot of the things that both mercs and sorcs can do. Their cc immunity is arguably the most important dcd in the game that can only be exploited by other snipers, that's the reason they are considered the top dog of ranged dps in group ranked. They have weaknesses, they are just harder to exploit.

[JediMasterAlex]

Anyways, snipers cannot do a lot of the things that both mercs and sorcs can do. Their cc immunity is arguably the most important dcd in the game that can only be exploited by other snipers, that's the reason they are considered the top dog of ranged dps in group ranked. They have weaknesses, they are just harder to exploit.

 

This whole post would be interesting if it had any relevance to the current game. Unfortunately, group ranked is dead with no revival in sight, so there is truly no point in bringing it up in a discussion like this.

[Zurules]

Enet lasts too long and does too much damage. Really, it should do next to no damage (similar to force leap which applies a root effect and builds rage / focus)

 

It's duration is also longer than gores overall for less CD. So it needs to be nerfed to at least gore level of duration.

 

You do know the dot does almost nothing if you stop moving, if your worried you are taking too much damage from it, stop moving, maybe use some long range ccs on someone else in that moment, if you can off-heal do that to help survive.

 

The duration needs to be long for it to be as effective as it is especially with the 1m30 cd. Its the best offensive ability in the game. I do not remember the cd of gore, but I believe its 30s? It is shorter in duration, but you can use it more frequently. So if your team is good at creating windows every 30 seconds, gore will be extremely effective since most dcds are on 1min+ cds. The value of frequency here is important and is why the total duration is overall less than the net.

[Zurules]

This whole post would be interesting if it had any relevance to the current game. Unfortunately, group ranked is dead with no revival in sight, so there is truly no point in bringing it up in a discussion like this.

 

The relevance is about the balance of the classes within the complexity of the game. Talking about nerfing or buffing abilities that affect combat, does shift the balance of classes. This is a fact. I'll give you a more extreme example to make the relevance so clear for you that im sure it will remain invisible to you.

 

EX: I think force leap is too weak. Why don't we buff it so that if used on a impaired target, it will do 30x more damage and refresh all impairing effects. Everyone can see that this would be broken and op and should not be implemented. But why did I think force leap needed a buff in the first place? Talking about those reasons and using the other classes as comparisons in regards to weaknesses and strengths is important to try to explain your reasoning for wanting a buff or nerf in the first place.

 

You can continue to try and undermine my opinions with your own opinions. Do not expect me to back down and let anything you say that does not make sense without an explanation that also makes sense for why you have that opinion. If I disagree with something, i'll point it out and explain why, that's how discussions go.

 

I look forward for you to finally say something that could make sense but more importantly defend it with something other than your own opinion. Until then, I don't mind explaining every time to everyone why any idea that you suggest which I find bad, i'll explain why and provide examples or facts to defend my reasoning.

[JediMasterAlex]

i'll explain why and provide examples or facts to defend my reasoning.

 

You've never provided any facts to defend your reasoning. You just type out whatever comes into your head and present it as fact because you have a deluded opinion of your own level of pvp knowledge. For example:

 

EX: I think force leap is too weak. Why don't we buff it so that if used on a impaired target, it will do 30x more damage and refresh all impairing effects. Everyone can see that this would be broken and op and should not be implemented. But why did I think force leap needed a buff in the first place? Talking about those reasons and using the other classes as comparisons in regards to weaknesses and strengths is important to try to explain your reasoning for wanting a buff or nerf in the first place.

 

That is gobbledygook, but apparently you consider it to be "facts." Bizarre.

 

Your post in question explicitly relied on talking about balance in a group ranked context. Group ranked is not played anymore, so it's pointless to discuss it. If you had examples from solo ranked or regs, that might actually add to the discussion.

Edited June 11, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[kissingaiur]

snip

 

nice though out overview but clearly missing the point

 

you missed the whole part where it wraps into the main discussion. i could care less about fundamentals of the meta. that whole part was a tangent to clear up my point. mercs have been mechanically bad in pvp. they been **** in ranked and barely even function in pvp for a long time (till their dcd buffs) maybe that is a personal opinion because clearly you do not believe that, but it has been echoed from many many respectable players for the years i have played this game. the issues with mercs effectiveness isnt something a random observation that is randomly pulled out of thin air.

 

nets invention was lazy, purely thought up based on how bad the class was mechanically in pvp with no reason insight how to fix it anytime soon. i personally think there is no harm in slapping on a 90s bastion buff on it. a change like that wouldn't even be relevant in team ranked, if that is what you care about (who goes 2 mercs anyways). the biggest changes would be in the other modes of pvp where it would have significant change (because there is no class match making in these modes), which would make the game more fun, instead of playing net roulette with dps sorcs.

Edited June 11, 2019 by kissingaiur

[Lhancelot]

This is just so wrong. Mercs are by far the best dps pvp class right now. Second isn't even close.

 

Mercs can easily kite and do damage. They do have several abilities with cast times...as do most classes. Their dcds are far and away the best of any dps class.

 

Most importantly, they can face tank damage while still outputting essentially their max dps, uninterrupted. They are the hardest class to shut down when tunneling them, because they have so many anti-focus abilities, which again, allow them to dps at the same time, unlike say sorcs.

 

When they get in trouble, they can easily LOS and use their great self heals to stay alive for extended periods of time.

 

The best strategy when facing mercs is to just cc them until everything else is dead. Focusing them is almost certainly going to lead to a loss unless they are very bad.

 

I think many of the details Hottie rattled off which in her mind makes them a clunky and not exactly efficient ranked team class applies to the healing spec and merc DPS specs of past eras.

 

I agree with her about not being mobile in PVP but that applies to the healing spec merc not the dps spec, no doubt. Healing mercs have far too many casted heals, channels that get interrupted, etc. All the enemy has to do is sit on them and once they burn their DCDs they are dead. With no real disengage and far too many easily interrupted heals that must be stand and cast, it's just too hard to get a good synergy between healing, keeping more than one target alive, and keeping itself up.

 

Mercs healers are fun in regs, but in 4v4s where their weaknesses are easily exposed they are garbage in most cases. So why not buff healing mercs, instead of create threads about an ability that isn't gamebreaking, and itsn't even really a big deal except for rare cases when classes get stacked?

 

As for DPS mercs, that's another story. These weaknesses Hottie pointed out aren't nearly as noticeable when you play the merc dps. The DPS mercs are highly mobile, got decent sustained damage in PVP, can melt stuff fairly nicely, and can do all of this while having active DCDs that work while the merc is pouring out their DPS load. They are very hard to pin down, unlike their healing counterparts, and they are still effective with their abilities when tunneled unlike their healing counterparts.

 

I'd rather see meaningful changes at this point, I mean e-net is just such a minute issue in my mind, anyway.

 

Want to crusade for a good cause? Propose changes that make merc healers on the same level as operative healers or at the very least sorcs.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Lhancelot

[Rion_Starkiller]

...mercs....

 

IDK, I remember a guy named Chasso wrecking 2.X on his merc. He was probably just really good though.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[Zurules]

You've never provided any facts to defend your reasoning. You just type out whatever comes into your head and present it as fact because you have a deluded opinion of your own level of pvp knowledge. For example:

 

 

 

That is gobbledygook, but apparently you consider it to be "facts." Bizarre.

 

Your post in question explicitly relied on talking about balance in a group ranked context. Group ranked is not played anymore, so it's pointless to discuss it. If you had examples from solo ranked or regs, that might actually add to the discussion.

 

You have no idea what a fact is. It was one the first thing I noticed about you very early on. But here is a refresher, Facts no not pick sides, they do not tell you anything if you don't apply a context. Numbers are the best example.

If I just hit someone for 200k damage in a single hit. If I asked you is that op or not? Without a context you cannot say it is one or the other. If we then said that the person who got hit had 100 million health, you would probably argue the side that it is not op. If we take swtor as a context, and someone got hit by that. It is a one shot on who ever ,which is why we would then argue that is was op.

 

I am not going to go over again why group ranked is the best place to talk balance, the game is designed around the trinity and for 4 man its 2 dps1 tank 1 healer.

 

the fact that you can't see my example applying to regs or solo ranked is troubling. How can you think increasing the damage of force leap by 30x and it refreshes imparing effects on the target would be good in regs or solo ranked. Answer: its still not a good idea.

 

Numbers are facts. But please continue thinking they aren't.

[kissingaiur]

IDK, I remember a guy named Chasso wrecking 2.X on his merc. He was probably just really good though.

 

i do recall chasso, he was literally the only merc played the class religiously on shadowlands

[Zurules]

nice though out overview but clearly missing the point

 

you missed the whole part where it wraps into the main discussion. i could care less about fundamentals of the meta. that whole part was a tangent to clear up my point. mercs have been mechanically bad in pvp. they been **** in ranked and barely even function in pvp for a long time (till their dcd buffs) maybe that is a personal opinion because clearly you do not believe that, but it has been echoed from many many respectable players for the years i have played this game. the issues with mercs effectiveness isnt something a random observation that is randomly pulled out of thin air.

 

nets invention was lazy, purely thought up based on how bad the class was mechanically in pvp with no reason insight how to fix it anytime soon. i personally think there is no harm in slapping on a 90s bastion buff on it. a change like that wouldn't even be relevant in team ranked, if that is what you care about (who goes 2 mercs anyways). the biggest changes would be in the other modes of pvp where it would have significant change (because there is no class match making in these modes), which would make the game more fun, instead of playing net roulette with dps sorcs.

 

Before they got the defensives buffs (first was over the top, the small nerf after put them in a good place) they definitely had too many weaknesses with no real strength. The fact that they have elements that are poorly designed for pvp as you put it, is an intentional weakness that is taken into account into the overall balance.

 

Again, net roulette with sorcs is once again an individual mindset of the game. You must use your teammates to play the game properly. If you refuse to use your teammates who have the tools to help you, then that is a sign you don't understand how pvp was designed in this game and that is your problem.

[Lhancelot]

Since we turning this into an appreciation thread!

 

One of my favorite mercs was Zachariah. He made some very clean and short videos on rotations and was always very helpful in the game if I sent tells asking him for gearing advice or anything else.

 

Another merc I liked was Bibi'fet because it was fun killing him and his premades in regs. His teams were always good and he ran with some of <The Core> when he played his pubs.

 

My memory is not strong today, I forget my pal I always ran with on my merc we ran duo sometimes and he always played frilly cutesy female toons for his mercs. Had fun times with him years ago. He always talked mad crap in the WZs, then got tunneled and complained non-stop about it rofl. He'd log out complaining that he was always tunneled. But he melted people's faces and it was good times.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Lhancelot