PvP Suggestion: Revising Electro Net

[RACATW]

Commando net is bugged so that it goes through any resist chance to net you no matter what. Nothing else can hinder a concealment operative mid roll

 

What if gore is secretly bugged and meant to hit when the person rolls just like retaliation / riposte from what I recall?

Edited June 7, 2019 by RACATW

[SlimeyDoom]

What if gore is secretly bugged and meant to hit when the person rolls just like retaliation / riposte from what I recall?

 

I believe retaliation says in its tooltip that it cannot be parried or evaded, but it’s been a while since I played jugg so I may be mistaken.

[Friend-Referral]

These posts by the group ranked elitists are beyond comical. 4s being the "pinnacle of swtor pvp". Give me a break. Yeeeaahhh, keep begging for meme pve guilds and mat farming teams to keep queing and wintrading with all your friends to chug buckets of elo down your throats. That sure is the pinnacle of ranked pvp!

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by ColorfulCaiques

[RACATW]

I believe retaliation says in its tooltip that it cannot be parried or evaded, but it’s been a while since I played jugg so I may be mistaken.

 

Aye, it does specifically state that and that's how it works in practice. Nothing can stop it, not even diversion or obfuscate (accuracy / miss) from what I recall.

 

But hey, you never know. Maybe commando net isn't broken, rather merc & mara are. There's a 33% chance of it after all!

[foxmob]

I was talking about mid roll (similar to how a commando can net an op mid roll)

 

My assumption was thats what foxmob was referring to (always stopping roll). But I've only seen retaliation hit someone mid roll from what I recall.

 

foxmob was referring to some BS idea that net shouldn't hinder someone under white bar..

These posts by the group ranked elitists are beyond comical. 4s being the "pinnacle of swtor pvp". Give me a break. Yeeeaahhh, keep begging for meme pve guilds and mat farming teams to keep queing and wintrading with all your friends to chug buckets of elo down your throats. That sure is the pinnacle of ranked pvp!

 

 

are you mental? there's no question that 4s is where the highest skill in the game competes. that's what pinnacle means: the top.

 

slimey acts like a condescending jerk on the board, but what are you smoking? the reason only mat farmers show up in granked is because the 2-4 teams that he plays with/on obliterate everyone else, and no one wants to go into a game they have no hope of winning.

[Friend-Referral]

foxmob was referring to some BS idea that net shouldn't hinder someone under white bar..

 

 

are you mental? there's no question that 4s is where the highest skill in the game competes. that's what pinnacle means: the top.

 

slimey acts like a condescending jerk on the board, but what are you smoking? the reason only mat farmers show up in granked is because the 2-4 teams that he plays with/on obliterate everyone else, and no one wants to go into a game they have no hope of winning.

I wouldn't consider it "highest skill" when these granked elitists - who are the absolute extreme minority in this game, like all of them could unsub forever and BW wouldn't lose anything meaningful cause there's only like 10 of them lmao - love farming mat farmers and the game mode is tainted by being a bastion of wintrading. That is what I'm referring to.

Edited June 8, 2019 by ColorfulCaiques

[Zurules]

Let's say there's 3 mercs on a team and they're all focusing you. If net is nerfed as suggested, only one of them will be able to net you. So let's say you break that net, and use whatever dcd is appropriate for your class. EVEN WITHOUT ANOTHER NET, THE OTHER MERCS CAN STILL PURSUE AND FOCUS YOU, AND YOU WILL STILL DIE. You'll die as fast as if those other 2 mercs were any other class. It's not as if mercs can't do dps without net.

 

Let's look at your example, if I get a debuff that only allows one net to be on me every 1min 30 seconds. I will be able to fairly easily vanish out because I can wait out the persistant dot from the net long enough to be able to vanish out and not be knocked out of stealth because of the damage and I will be able to heal back up (AKA im not dead). I would have basically 0 chance to survive if I was allowed to be hit by 3 nets and the mercs timed their nets well.

 

I always thought it was hard for mercs to dps you if you are in stealth

 

I wouldn't consider it "highest skill".

 

Im curious, if you don't consider group ranked to be the place for the highest skill, where do you believe the place for highest skill in pvp is placed? (Please do not try and answer solo ranked. Although, I must say it would be funny to see you try if this was your intention. Hint: Does randomness + highest skill = highest level of play?)

[JediMasterAlex]

Let's look at your example, if I get a debuff that only allows one net to be on me every 1min 30 seconds. I will be able to fairly easily vanish out because I can wait out the persistant dot from the net long enough to be able to vanish out and not be knocked out of stealth because of the damage and I will be able to heal back up (AKA im not dead). I would have basically 0 chance to survive if I was allowed to be hit by 3 nets and the mercs timed their nets well.

 

I always thought it was hard for mercs to dps you if you are in stealth

 

What you've described would also happen if there are 3 maras, or any other dps, on you, none of which can net... That's not an argument against nerfing multiple nets. In fact, you've helped my argument by suggesting that enduring multiple nets is unlike anything that other dps can do to you.

 

Im curious, if you don't consider group ranked to be the place for the highest skill, where do you believe the place for highest skill in pvp is placed? (Please do not try and answer solo ranked. Although, I must say it would be funny to see you try if this was your intention. Hint: Does randomness + highest skill = highest level of play?)

 

In some ideal world where all of the best players in the game organized into teams and played each other consistently, then maybe group ranked could be considered the place for highest skill in pvp. But those conditions haven't been met in years, if they ever were. For all practical purposes, group ranked is dead, and isn't a place for any level of pvp skill. Therefore, solo ranked, flaws and all, wins by default.

Edited June 8, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Severith]

 

Now, if we want to bring back comments we have made, literally 3-5 years ago and then proclaim that as reason not to consider anything someone has to add to a discussion, sure that's fine you can choose to do that. Thing is, that's a lot of narrative written about me and I feel a bit disrespected because the narrative is out of context.

 

I do remember eventually when mercs started to get buffs and improvements, much deserved by the way. And, I remember all the snide whiners who had been enjoying the free-kill merc phenomenon for years boohooing about how unfair it was mercs now had DCDs and massive burst.

 

This was years back, and the forums were a bit more "lively" let's just say.

 

So I had my fun rubbing it in their faces, just like any forum troll would after having to deal with years of "it's a L2P issue" why people found their mercs were free kills to any other DPS when tunneled. In reality the class was the closest thing SWTOR has ever had to a glass cannon then and even up to this point no class has ever had such weak defensives yet such powerful burst.

 

I guess PTs now can take that mantle now that I think about it, but point is I was being deliberately antagonistic when I used over-the-top hyperbolic statements regarding the state of the new improved mercs and the crumbling of some of the other classes position from the top of the pyramid.

 

I found it funny how sore these whiners were, when for years none of them once supported any of the threads I and others made BEGGING BW to improve the merc class.

 

Sorry no sympathy for my trollish manners then, most of the manchildren whining about the changes never cared when the merc class was a free kill so I damn sure wasn't going to feel pity for the poor people that suddenly were incapable of learning how to fight mercs with added better DCDs. Now, it was THEIR L2P issues.

 

 

I always run with the assumption that if people are posting threads about class balance, their intention is to improve them game, that they care about SWTOR pvp and want to keep it going. I keep that assumption until they prove otherwise.

 

You proved otherwise.

 

I don't care if some "meanie" told you to L2P at some point, that's no justification to purposefully derail constructive discussions, which is exactly what you were doing, and what you admitted to.

 

I'd trust a random person's opinion off the street before I'd trust yours, especially when talking about merc class balance.

 

It took exactly a year for mercs to get toned down after 5.0 launched, and I put the blame squarely on those people who intentionally derailed threads. If the pvp community had put up a united front things might of been adjusted that much sooner.

 

I remember every member of the merc troll brigade, and none of you get a free pass.

[Zurules]

What you've described would also happen if there are 3 maras, or any other dps, on you, none of which can net... That's not an argument against nerfing multiple nets. In fact, you've helped my argument by suggesting that enduring multiple nets is unlike anything that other dps can do to you.

 

Let me be clear, the purpose of my post in response to your comment was to provide a very simple example to show how your statement is flawed. That's is. I was not advocating for or against the idea of to nerf or not nerf the net ability with my response to you.

 

In some ideal world where all of the best players in the game organized into teams and played each other consistently, then maybe group ranked could be considered the place for highest skill in pvp. But those conditions haven't been met in years, if they ever were. For all practical purposes, group ranked is dead, and isn't a place for any level of pvp skill. Therefore, solo ranked, flaws and all, wins by default.

 

I'd argue this: if my team (the crushers) and ruining lives team were the only two teams in queue for group ranked (look only 2 teams in group ranked, its extremely dead), the level of pvp in our match would be higher than ANY match generated in solo ranked with ANY of the other solo queue players on SF.

 

Even if you had the best solo queue player on a team vs either of our teams, he would be paired with one of the worst players because of how not dead solo ranked is and how teams are made in solo queue. Because you stated that solo ranked has the highest lvl of skill, you must believe that a team with such a weak link actually would beat one of our two teams CONSISTANTLY. This is important since for any team to be considered higher skilled than another, that team should be able to beat the other team more often than not over a series of games. In other words, you would be saying that a team with atleast 1 bad player will consistently beat a team with 4 strong players. Somehow, with all your solo queue experience (you've said in other posts that you queue the most than anyone on SF), even i'd doubt you would believe that to be true, yet you are implying it.

[JediMasterAlex]

Let me be clear, the purpose of my post in response to your comment was to provide a very simple example to show how your statement is flawed. That's is. I was not advocating for or against the idea of to nerf or not nerf the net ability with my response to you.

 

I'm not really sure what purpose that served. My point was just to show that facing multiple mercs is significantly harder than facing multiples of any other class due to their nets. If only one of them can net, then those 3 players focusing you become similar to any other 3 classes focusing you, which is as it should be. Players shouldn't face a +300% (estimated) difficulty just because they're facing multiple nets.

 

I'd argue this: if my team (the crushers) and ruining lives team were the only two teams in queue for group ranked (look only 2 teams in group ranked, its extremely dead), the level of pvp in our match would be higher than ANY match generated in solo ranked with ANY of the other solo queue players on SF.

 

Sure, that's almost certainly true. But, the fact that you only think that's true of two teams really proves how dead group ranked is. I don't think the mere existence of two good teams makes any difference (and neither team is even active in group ranked this season as far as I can tell).

 

Even if you had the best solo queue player on a team vs either of our teams, he would be paired with one of the worst players because of how not dead solo ranked is and how teams are made in solo queue. Because you stated that solo ranked has the highest lvl of skill, you must believe that a team with such a weak link actually would beat one of our two teams CONSISTANTLY. This is important since for any team to be considered higher skilled than another, that team should be able to beat the other team more often than not over a series of games. In other words, you would be saying that a team with atleast 1 bad player will consistently beat a team with 4 strong players. Somehow, with all your solo queue experience (you've said in other posts that you queue the most than anyone on SF), even i'd doubt you would believe that to be true, yet you are implying it.

 

I'm not implying anything that you wrote. I am making a straightforward argument: group ranked is dead and therefore cannot be considered the mode of highest pvp skill. If they straight up removed group ranked from the game, you would obviously agree that solo ranked has a higher level of skill than regs. Well, that's pretty much the situation we're in as far as I can tell.

 

There is also an argument to be made that one's success in solo ranked is a more accurate indicator of one's skill than group ranked, but that would be a separate discussion.

Edited June 8, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Zurules]

I'm not implying anything that you wrote. I am making a straightforward argument: group ranked is dead and therefore cannot be considered the mode of highest pvp skill. If they straight up removed group ranked from the game, you would obviously agree that solo ranked has a higher level of skill than regs. Well, that's pretty much the situation we're in as far as I can tell.

 

It is very obvious for me that understanding pvp skill is just too difficult of a task for you. So i'll attempt to translate what you are saying about PVP in PVE terms which might be helpful for you to understand.

 

PVE version: "If there are only 2 teams clearing nightmare/master operations (aka group ranked), and you have 50+ groups doing hm/veteran operations (solo ranked). Since nightmare/master mode is dead, you cannot consider it the highest lvl of PVE skill. If they straight up removed nightmare/master mode from the game, you would obviously agree that hm/vetran mode has a higher level of skill than story mode (regs). Therefore by default, hm/veteran operations has the higher lvl of skill in PVE".

 

What does everyone think? Would you say that it is a fairly accurate translation into PVE terms?

[SlimeyDoom]

I'm not implying anything that you wrote. I am making a straightforward argument: group ranked is dead and therefore cannot be considered the mode of highest pvp skill. If they straight up removed group ranked from the game, you would obviously agree that solo ranked has a higher level of skill than regs. Well, that's pretty much the situation we're in as far as I can tell.

 

There is also an argument to be made that one's success in solo ranked is a more accurate indicator of one's skill than group ranked, but that would be a separate discussion.

 

While this point isn’t relevant to the thread, people keep talking about group ranked. They say it doesn’t require skill or that it’s dead and irrelevant. This reasoning is flawed. Just because one game mode is less active doesn’t mean it suddenly doesn’t require skill. For starters, group ranked does still pop, it’s been popping every evening on satele the past few days. Secondly, this is like saying “Because more people play story mode than do nightmare operations, therefore nim is dead and story mode, flaws and all, is the height of swtor pve skill”. That’s not true and you know it.

 

The amount of awareness and sheer skill you need to survive and win when two hardswap group ranked teams like the Crushers or Ruining Lives play each other is why we say group ranked is the pinnacle of skill and talent in pvp. It’s really hard to explain this to someone who has never played high level fours, but you can’t mess up anything or you will die. If you put a solo ranked player into that high pressure environment, they will mess up and die. It’s an entirely other level of play compared to solo ranked. However, when the people from these group ranked teams are put into solo ranked, they just farm everyone in queue because the average skill in solo ranked is so low. To my knowledge, every single member of the Crushers or the Ruining Lives teams have gotten gold in solos pretty easily, even those of us who don’t really play solos. I think every member of the Crushers also has gotten top threes in solo ranked, and some members of Ruining Lives either already have solo ranked top threes or are top three in solo ranked right now.

 

Please don’t lecture us about how much more skillful solo ranked is and how group ranked is irrelevant and easy. We have played and excelled in both game modes, and all of us conclude the same thing: solo ranked is not what truly skill based pvp looks like. Sorry

Edited June 8, 2019 by SlimeyDoom

[SlimeyDoom]

It is very obvious for me that understanding pvp skill is just too difficult of a task for you. So i'll attempt to translate what you are saying about PVP in PVE terms which might be helpful for you to understand.

 

PVE version: "If there are only 2 teams clearing nightmare/master operations (aka group ranked), and you have 50+ groups doing hm/veteran operations (solo ranked). Since nightmare/master mode is dead, you cannot consider it the highest lvl of PVE skill. If they straight up removed nightmare/master mode from the game, you would obviously agree that hm/vetran mode has a higher level of skill than story mode (regs). Therefore by default, hm/veteran operations has the higher lvl of skill in PVE".

 

What does everyone think? Would you say that it is a fairly accurate translation into PVE terms?

 

You literally read my mind, i was writing this exact analogy when you posted it

[JediMasterAlex]

It is very obvious for me that understanding pvp skill is just too difficult of a task for you. So i'll attempt to translate what you are saying about PVP in PVE terms which might be helpful for you to understand.

 

PVE version: "If there are only 2 teams clearing nightmare/master operations (aka group ranked), and you have 50+ groups doing hm/veteran operations (solo ranked). Since nightmare/master mode is dead, you cannot consider it the highest lvl of PVE skill. If they straight up removed nightmare/master mode from the game, you would obviously agree that hm/vetran mode has a higher level of skill than story mode (regs). Therefore by default, hm/veteran operations has the higher lvl of skill in PVE".

 

What does everyone think? Would you say that it is a fairly accurate translation into PVE terms?

 

This is a terrible analogy, and it perfectly demonstrates how you haven't understood my point at all. Raiding is a linear progression. Hard mode and Nightmare mode are only different in difficulty, not in kind. Group ranked and solo ranked are fundamentally different game modes. Neither is inherently superior to the other like Nightmare is to hard mode. So when group ranked is a nonactive game mode, whatever arguments there may be in favor of its superiority are nullified completely. Group ranked is only relevant if a significant proportion of the best players are actually formed in teams, and they are consistently playing each other for supremacy. Obviously that isn't happening. This is actually the first time I'm starting to pity you both because your reasoning skills are this poor. Oh well.

 

The amount of awareness and sheer skill you need to survive and win when two hardswap group ranked teams like the Crushers or Ruining Lives play each other is why we say group ranked is the pinnacle of skill and talent in pvp. It’s really hard to explain this to someone who has never played high level fours, but you can’t mess up anything or you will die. If you put a solo ranked player into that high pressure environment, they will mess up and die. It’s an entirely other level of play compared to solo ranked. However, when the people from these group ranked teams are put into solo ranked, they just farm everyone in queue because the average skill in solo ranked is so low. To my knowledge, every single member of the Crushers or the Ruining Lives teams have gotten gold in solos pretty easily, even those of us who don’t really play solos. I think every member of the Crushers also has gotten top threes in solo ranked, and some members of Ruining Lives either already have solo ranked top threes or are top three in solo ranked right now.

 

More babble.

 

Please don’t lecture us about how much more skillful solo ranked is and how group ranked is irrelevant and easy. We have played and excelled in both game modes, and all of us conclude the same thing: solo ranked is not what truly skill based pvp looks like. Sorry

 

I guess you both lack basic reading comprehension skills. Group ranked=dead, therefore irrelevant. Is that better? I'm not sure how to say the same thing 900 times lol. Neither of you have even responded to what I'm actually saying. You're clearly just upset that the group ranked mystique has completely gone away. Just because you used to be a part of a team in this game's mythical past is irrelevant. I'm sorry to be the one to have to break that news to you, but the sooner you accept it the sooner you can move on with your lives. Meanwhile, I'm actually having fun, you know, playing ranked.

 

(ps, I've tried tying most of my posts back to the original point of this thread, but these two keep pulling it off topic to the point where I couldn't do it this time, sorry)

Edited June 8, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Zurules]

There is also an argument to be made that one's success in solo ranked is a more accurate indicator of one's skill than group ranked, but that would be a separate discussion.

 

Im really confused here?? In our past argument regarding player skill I had said this:

I have never claimed to be the best, just one of them. You can keep laughing at that fact all you want, my success speaks for itself.

you replied:

I absolutely laugh at you thinking you're a great player, because I've actually seen you play. You are not nearly as good as you think you are, and that's an issue when that is the entire basis of your arguments.

 

If you dont remember, the success I am referring to from our past argument was about my success in solo ranked.

 

What I am presenting here for everyone to see is the huge contradiction between YOUR two statements.

 

I told myself to just ignore you, but I am finding that difficult to do because I actually care a lot about the pvp in this game and I don't want the pvp in this game to get worse because of opinions from trolls like yourself no matter how entertaining some people might find it.

[JediMasterAlex]

Im really confused here?? In our past argument regarding player skill I had said this:

you replied:

 

If you dont remember, the success I am referring to from our past argument was about my success in solo ranked.

 

What I am presenting here for everyone to see is the huge contradiction between YOUR two statements.

 

I told myself to just ignore you, but I am finding that difficult to do because I actually care a lot about the pvp in this game and I don't want the pvp in this game to get worse because of opinions from trolls like yourself no matter how entertaining some people might find it.

 

If you have a private disagreement with me, maybe you should pm me, because genuinely, I don't see how what you just said has anything to do with either topics of this thread lol.

 

As to your specific allegations, I never said that I thought that solo ranked rating had no correlation with skill. It clearly has some. And you've clearly had success in solo ranked...in the distant past when teams got stacked in favor of the higher ranked players, and before cross faction so it was easy to only queue on the side with good players. Conveniently, since solo ranked became far fairer, you haven't had that kind of success. And I've seen you play recently, and I wasn't overly impressed. Therefore, I said that your past success did not make you a "great" player or a "pvp expert" as you laughably dub yourself. There is no contradiction here.

[Seterade]

popcorn anyone?

[SlimeyDoom]

Im really confused here?? In our past argument regarding player skill I had said this:

you replied:

 

If you dont remember, the success I am referring to from our past argument was about my success in solo ranked.

 

What I am presenting here for everyone to see is the huge contradiction between YOUR two statements.

 

I told myself to just ignore you, but I am finding that difficult to do because I actually care a lot about the pvp in this game and I don't want the pvp in this game to get worse because of opinions from trolls like yourself no matter how entertaining some people might find it.

 

I don’t think it’s worth the effort Zur. I do think it’s pretty funny how he calls us terrible, but we’ve actually gotten top threes in solo ranked while his only real accomplishment is getting tokens from queueing every day.

 

Logically, people would value the opinion of players who are legitimate, not cheated, top three players in both solo ranked and group ranked, over someone who lacks any real accomplishment in solo ranked and has not done group ranked in any meaningful way. When talking about group ranked versus solo ranked, would you trust the opinion of someone who does both very well, or someone who only does one at a mediocre level?

 

Oh well, we tried.

[Zurules]

This is a terrible analogy, and it perfectly demonstrates how you haven't understood my point at all. Raiding is a linear progression. Hard mode and Nightmare mode are only different in difficulty, not in kind. Group ranked and solo ranked are fundamentally different game modes. Neither is inherently superior to the other like Nightmare is to hard mode. So when group ranked is a nonactive game mode, whatever arguments there may be in favor of its superiority are nullified completely. Group ranked is only relevant if a significant proportion of the best players are actually formed in teams, and they are consistently playing each other for supremacy. Obviously that isn't happening. This is actually the first time I'm starting to pity you both because your reasoning skills are this poor. Oh well.

 

Let's continue to play along. You say my analogy is terrible, alright.

 

Let's examine your reasoning as to why:

 

You say nightmare and hard mode are only different in difficulty, not in kind. You then say that group ranked and solo ranked are fundamentally different game modes.

 

let's looks at the differences between nightmare and hardmode and solo queue vs group ranked.

 

PVE- The objective: Kill the boss before a pre-set amount of time without everyone being dead at the same time at any point (it's the same for either difficulty).

 

The difficulty: What makes nightmare more difficult than hardmode? (Any nightmare raiders feel free to comment about this part)

 

I believe some of the things that makes nightmare harder are:

 

1. Additional mechanics

2. Requires even more communication and coordination from the team to succeed

3. Mistakes made are more punishing.

 

Now, lets look at the differences from the two PVP game modes.

 

The Objective: Kill all your opponents before they kill all the members of your team. (I think it's the same in both game mode:rolleyes:)

 

Differences between the two game modes:

 

1. Composition of the teams: Solos- you do not know the composition (dps,healer, tank and specs of teammates beforehand). Team- You choose your teammates and know what class and specs everyone is playing before entering the queue.

2. Coordination: Solos- Very unlikely to be in coms with more than one of your teammates, let alone having one. Very little communication and coordination especially after the game starts. Team- Almost guarrenteed to be in coms with all members of your team. Communication is constant to achieve high degree of coordination.

3. Mistakes: Solos- usually costly to your team if the team makes one or more, but can often recover and still win. Team- Mistakes are more costly and are taken advantage of harder. Very hard but not impossible to recover if your team makes the first one.

 

You said earlier that solo and group ranked are fundamentally different game modes. The differences I see between the two are extremely similar to the differences for PVE.

 

In nightmare, more communication and coordination is required to be successful compared to hardmode. In group ranked, you also need more communication and coordination to be successful compared to solo ranked.

 

In nightmare, one mistake by someone often leads to a whipe. In hardmode, a mistake does not lead to a whip nearly as often. In group ranked, one mistake very often leads to losing the round. In solo queue, one mistake from your team can lead to losing the round, but often you can still win the round.

 

The only real difference in regards to the fundamentals between Group and Solo ranked is the fact you control the composition in group ranked and not in solo ranked. I still say that group ranked is higher skilled because you are choosing your strategy in regards to composition before you go into a game and it becomes how you execute your strategy. In solo ranked you can only choose your strategy after going into the game and looking at the composition you have.

 

For solo ranked, the skill that I would say is more prevalent is your adaptability to comme up with the strategy based on the random hand you are dealt(has randomness). In group ranked you are choosing your hand and the skill that is more prevalent is how good you are at executing your strategy(No randomness).

 

Overall, I definitely do not agree with your statement that Group ranked and Solo ranked are fundamentally different game modes and that my PVE analogy as you put it is terrible.

 

Let the entertainment continue!

[Zurules]

I don’t think it’s worth the effort Zur.

 

I think I've made it clear who knows what they are talking about in regards to ranked pvp between myself and Alex. I'm confident most people can see that. He just says so many things that are so easy to prove incorrect, It's sorta becoming a game for me lol.

 

We definitely are going away from the original topic of the thread, that I can agree with. But at the same time, the entertainment value is just too good.

[JediMasterAlex]

I do think it’s pretty funny how he calls us terrible.

 

For everyone else, notice that I never called either of them terrible. In fact, I don't even know who Slimey is lol.

 

The only real difference in regards to the fundamentals between Group and Solo ranked is the fact you control the composition in group ranked and not in solo ranked.

 

That is exactly what makes them fundamentally different in a way that hard mode and nightmare mode are not. You even noted the different kinds of skills required in group vs solo ranked, whereas nightmare just requires more of what hard mode requires. That is why the analogy obviously fails. If you can't see that, man, you have bigger issues than I thought.

 

I think I've made it clear who knows what they are talking about in regards to ranked pvp between myself and Alex. I'm confident most people can see that.

 

I completely agree. You've helped make the answer quite clear, I must thank you for it.

Edited June 8, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Zurules]

That is exactly what makes them fundamentally different in a way that hard mode and nightmare mode are not. You even noted the different kinds of skills required in group vs solo ranked, whereas nightmare just requires more of what hard mode requires. That is why the analogy obviously fails. If you can't see that, man, you have bigger issues than I thought.

 

Time to bring back another recap! This time only from like an hour ago or so?

 

You said:

I'm not implying anything that you wrote. I am making a straightforward argument: group ranked is dead and therefore cannot be considered the mode of highest pvp skill. If they straight up removed group ranked from the game, you would obviously agree that solo ranked has a higher level of skill than regs. Well, that's pretty much the situation we're in as far as I can tell.

 

My analogy:

PVE version: "If there are only 2 teams clearing nightmare/master operations (aka group ranked), and you have 50+ groups doing hm/veteran operations (solo ranked). Since nightmare/master mode is dead, you cannot consider it the highest lvl of PVE skill. If they straight up removed nightmare/master mode from the game, you would obviously agree that hm/vetran mode has a higher level of skill than story mode (regs). Therefore by default, hm/veteran operations has the higher lvl of skill in PVE".

The whole topic of the analogy was about where the highest skill for pvp was played, group ranked or Solo ranked.

 

The analogy I made has nothing to do with how fundamentally group and solo ranked are different. This is another prime example at how you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Please try again, Why does my analogy fail?

[JediMasterAlex]

Time to bring back another recap! This time only from like an hour ago or so?

 

You said:

 

My analogy:

The whole topic of the analogy was about where the highest skill for pvp was played, group ranked or Solo ranked.

 

The analogy I made has nothing to do with how fundamentally group and solo ranked are different. This is another prime example at how you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Please try again, Why does my analogy fail?

 

You are really confused. The highest level of skill cannot exist in the void that is group ranked. Your analogy was meant to show that just because people aren't clearing Nightmare doesn't mean that it isn't still the highest pve content. Then I pointed out that pve progression is linear, so of course nightmare would still be the highest skilled pve. However, because group and solo ranked are fundamentally different, if group ranked is dead, it's totally irrelevant in any conversation about which is more skilled. Your analogy only makes sense if you are already assuming that there is a progression from solo ranked to group ranked like there is from hard mode to nightmare mode, but there isn't. They are coequal ranked modes that are fundamentally different.

 

Using the word coequal helped me think of a cool analogy. The US government has three coequal branches. You can have arguments about which is the most powerful of the three, but the constitution treats them as essentially equals (though it devotes the most time to Congress). But let's say Congress got totally reformed so that it just consisted of a panel of 8 people, and they only meet a few times a year. Sure, it still exists, but if people are debating which branch is the most powerful, obviously Congress has been disqualified from the conversation. Maybe every once in a while they still come up with a great new reform, but because hardly anybody is in it, and it meets infrequently, it has little actual power, whereas previously it had been the primary branch with many responsibilities.

 

Do you understand now? All of these posts are so unnecessary for such simple concepts.

Edited June 8, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[SlimeyDoom]

Time to bring back another recap! This time only from like an hour ago or so?

 

You said:

 

My analogy:

The whole topic of the analogy was about where the highest skill for pvp was played, group ranked or Solo ranked.

 

The analogy I made has nothing to do with how fundamentally group and solo ranked are different. This is another prime example at how you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Please try again, Why does my analogy fail?

 

Are any of the Crushers coming back for 6.0 btw?