PvP Suggestion: Revising Electro Net

[JediMasterAlex]

Also, who even are you? You’re not a top tier ranked player, because I would know you. What are your characters and their rating? I’d love to see them as you seem to think you just know better than the entire swtor community

 

Awww how cute. We've finally made it to the edgy part where you claim to be relevant and that I'm irrelevant right? People like you are so predictable really, though it did take us a bit longer to get here than I thought it would.

[SlimeyDoom]

Awww how cute. We've finally made it to the edgy part where you claim to be relevant and that I'm irrelevant right? People like you are so predictable really, though it did take us a bit longer to get here than I thought it would.

 

Me: Here are all these reasons trinity comps are important in deciding balance in this game

JediMasterAlex: Group ranked is dead I'm right you're stupid haha

 

Me: Ok, well group ranked isn't actually dead, here are some streams from just the past few days that show matches going on. Anyway, back to the point, trinity comps are important in regards to balance.

JediMasterAlex: Haha nope group ranked dead I'm right ur all wrong because I said so

 

Me: Ok, like I said before, that's not the point, please note that trinity comps are important. What are you qualifications to be making these claims by the way? I'm a group ranked player from the top North American team, and nim raider with alot of experience with the endgame pvp/pve content in this game. What are your qualifications?

JediMasterAlex: Omg you asked me to provide proof that I actually know what I'm talking about rather than just spewing nonsense on the forums, YOU'RE EDGY!!!!!

 

Please stop trying to talk to me, I prefer people who I can have logical debates with.

Edited June 7, 2019 by SlimeyDoom

[JediMasterAlex]

Me: Here are all these reasons trinity comps are important in deciding balance in this game

JediMasterAlex: Group ranked is dead I'm right you're stupid haha

 

Me: Ok, well group ranked isn't actually dead, here are some streams from just the past few days that show matches going on. Anyway, back to the point, trinity comps are important in regards to balance.

JediMasterAlex: Haha nope group ranked dead I'm right ur all wrong because I said so

 

Me: Ok, like I said before, that's not the point, please note that trinity comps are important. What are you qualifications to be making these claims by the way? I'm a group ranked player from the top North American team, and nim raider with alot of experience with the endgame pvp/pve content in this game. What are your qualifications?

JediMasterAlex: Omg you asked me to provide proof that I actually know what I'm talking about rather than just spewing nonsense on the forums, YOU'RE EDGY!!!!!

 

Please stop trying to talk to me, I prefer people who I can have logical debates with.

 

Unhinged babble is my favorite! Please, continue. You're really helping your case.

[SlimeyDoom]

Unhinged babble is my favorite! Please, continue. You're really helping your case.

Whatever makes you happy buddy

[foxmob]

People don't play team ranked because they don't want to lose 50 times to get the mats.. That is too painful and annoyingly long.

 

Mat farming kept team ranked alive as decent teams were queing and getting matched vs each other.

 

the PvE route is easier for master work. the PvP route is "easier" for monumental. but that's just the mat farmers in both formats.

 

if you make dps classes able to survive without the aid of a tank and healer, when you put tanks and heals into the matches, nothing will ever die. A dps that doesn’t have a tank and a healer should die if they get netted over and over. If a dps can survive that without any outside help, then they will be immortal with a guard and a healer. This is why group ranked and trinity comps are relevant.

 

I don't think that's how he put it before, but it's very very true.

 

you kinda have to ignore the condescension.

Edited June 7, 2019 by foxmob

[JediMasterAlex]

I don't think that's how he put it before, but it's very very true.

 

you kinda have to ignore the condescension.

 

I mean, the saddest part is that even in this specific context, if all you cared about was trinity comps and group ranked, it still makes no sense not to nerf net in the ways that Hottie described. Other than the decrease in duration, the other two changes are only relevant when there are multiple mercs on one team. How often does that happen in the few group ranked matches still occurring? Very infrequently I'd wager.

Edited June 7, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[foxmob]

Group ranked might not be as active as solo ranked, but trinity comps are the corner stone of swtor balance. You can say “hurrdurr but solo ranked so much players” all you want, that’s just how the game works.

 

well...they were. BW has implicitly declared otherwise in the past 3+ years by making numerous classes self-sufficient.

 

they shouldn't be. and it makes balancing PvE harder, but that is pretty clearly the direction BW has taken.

 

Forcing trinity for yolo pops would fix all of this, but then ppl would cry about slower pops. and that's anathema to BW (note evidence of the weekly mats incentive quests)

 

PS - just got back from Dark Phoenix to see you two still at it. lol go play.

Edited June 7, 2019 by foxmob

[SlimeyDoom]

I mean, the saddest part is that even in this specific context, if all you cared about was trinity comps and group ranked, it still makes no sense not to nerf net in the ways that Hottie described. Other than the decrease in duration, the other two changes are only relevant when there are multiple mercs on one team. How often does that happen in the few group ranked matches still occurring? Very infrequently I'd wager.

 

Hottie's original post mentioned either

a) reducing the duration of electronet

b) making netted targets immune for 2-3 minutes to hinder when they get netted once (the cooldown on net wih 0 alacrity is 90 seconds)

c) making white barred players immune to electronet hinder

 

All three of these ideas would clearly affect teams even if they ran one merc

well...they were. BW has implicitly declared otherwise in the past 3+ years by making numerous classes self-sufficient.

 

they shouldn't be. and it makes balancing PvE harder, but that is pretty clearly the direction BW has taken.

 

Forcing trinity for yolo pops would fix all of this, but then ppl would cry about slower pops. and that's anathema to BW (note evidence of the weekly mats incentive quests)

 

I would disagree, the nerfs to sustain that mercs, snipers, marauders, and healers have recieved, and the buffs to damage from increased gear rating over the course of 5.0 have actually made it so it's much harder to survive without a trinity comp. They missed the mark with the initial 5.0 class changes, but everything since then has been to make trinity more important.

Edited June 7, 2019 by SlimeyDoom

[JediMasterAlex]

PS - just got back from Dark Phoenix to see you two still at it. lol go play.

 

I've been playing solos this whole time. I just post between pops. Unfortunately for Slimey he can't play granked because it's a dead game mode, and he almost certainly can't hack it in solos, so here he is on the forums (boy that part is going to make him mad).

[SlimeyDoom]

I've been playing solos this whole time. I just post between pops. Unfortunately for Slimey he can't play granked because it's a dead game mode, and he almost certainly can't hack it in solos, so here he is on the forums (boy that part is going to make him mad).

I presented a whole series of logical arguments, evidence, and reasoning. You just responded with bizarre personal attacks and just saying random things without any sort of evidence to back yourself up. I hope you enjoyed making a fool of yourself :D

[JediMasterAlex]

I presented a whole series of logical arguments, evidence, and reasoning.

 

Where were those? I didn't notice any. All I saw were nonsensical posts that just stated "trinity comps are all that matter" with no supporting logic, evidence, or reason. Maybe the ones you're referring to got deleted by mods?

 

On the other hand, I provided post after post explaining why group ranked is not a relevant game mode to consider when balancing pvp, with actual evidence to back it up. Oh well.

[SlimeyDoom]

Where were those? I didn't notice any. All I saw were nonsensical posts that just stated "trinity comps are all that matter" with no supporting logic, evidence, or reason. Maybe the ones you're referring to got deleted by mods?

 

On the other hand, I provided post after post explaining why group ranked is not a relevant game mode to consider when balancing pvp, with actual evidence to back it up. Oh well.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading

[Zurules]

I do not think that electronet needs to be nerfed at all. Mercs are strong, but are definitely not at a power level that I would consider overpowered and needs changes. Net is a very unique ability and I enjoy the special utility it brings to fights.

 

This game is balanced with trinity in mind. It's always been like this and it NEEDS to remain the same. Balancing for solo ranked is such a bad idea because their is very little coordination between players and there is a huge element of randomness/luck involved.

 

Solo ranked may be more popular than group ranked because you don't need to find 3 other players willing to play with you and stick together during the good and bad times. Group ranked is the ENDGAME of pvp in swtor, not Solo ranked. It's in the group ranked environment that the better players demonstrate the weaknesses of classes, but also their strengths. We can expose these attributes for each spec because group ranked is coordinated and played as a team.

 

In group ranked, you eliminate the randomness/luck factor which is why the highest lvl of pvp is played in this game mode. You actually can see the potential of classes/specs. To see who are the best players in any game, you don't want any randomness/luck to be inviolved. In swtor, the best players are usually found in succesful group ranked teams who want to play vs other successful teams. The best want to play the best to prove they are the best.

 

@slimeydoom : Just try to ignore Alex. I had an argument with him in couple other threads as you might of seen and I learned that he is one of the most clueless players in regards of understanding pvp in this game. I concluded that he is a troll because how he refuses to understand the simplest of things no matter how clear you make it for him.

[Lhancelot]

E-net has been the one class-defining ability of the merc, which it seems most people forgot was on the bottom of the barrel for literally years. I mean years of total crap was this class.

 

E-net always was maligned, even when mercs were insta kills and offered up zero defense to ward off any close range/mid range dps classes. None of that mattered... E-net was too strong and needed nerfed, even years back this was proposed. Luckily BW in this case ignored the tears.

 

Long story short, this nerf aint happening.

 

The class is overpowered due to it's extreme amount of DCDs. Classes have always been able to work around E-net, sure it can be hard and sometimes multiple E-nets can spell the end for a target, but so what? Class stacking abilities is the main problem, and it exsists not just with merc E-net, but nearly any major attack ability that all DPS get. If I got 2-3 snipers that tunnel someone, and those snipers are decent, I am willing to bet the target dies. Such is PVP.

 

You can't start chipping away abilities just because they inconvenience your personal play style or your personal comp you like to run in ranked. Adjust to it, or propose better solutions to lowering the survivability of the merc, not the effectiveness it has to kill particularly certain classes easier than others with it's one class defining ability.

 

Whenever a nerf is proposed, I cringe. I think most nerfs are proposed out of frustration and misguided ideas on how to better PVP but in reality the ideas usually center around how to better PVP for the individual making the claims a specific ability needs nerfed.

 

Instead of nerfs, buff weak and crappy classes that need love like AP-PT, or maybe that dot-spec operative that is nothing but a running meme now for the past 3+ years. I'd rather see changes that make a big difference in the game, like improvements to many of the classes that simply are not viable in ranked and are even gimmicky in regs.

 

I think people need to stop fretting about how already decently constructed classes with little weaknesses within themselves struggle versus E-net, and instead focus on broader ways to make the game better.

 

Nerfs are lazy ways to solve class imbalance issues. Also, seeing there are more ways to avoid E-net than ever before, why nerf it now? I mean E-net was in the game when we barely had any ways to avoid CC. It had far more control and did far more damage back then compared to now.

[JediMasterAlex]

Solo ranked may be more popular than group ranked because you don't need to find 3 other players willing to play with you and stick together during the good and bad times. Group ranked is the ENDGAME of pvp in swtor, not Solo ranked. It's in the group ranked environment that the better players demonstrate the weaknesses of classes, but also their strengths. We can expose these attributes for each spec because group ranked is coordinated and played as a team.

 

This is just stating things as a fact, the same as Slimey. You've offered no actual reasoning here to support your opinion.

 

In group ranked, you eliminate the randomness/luck factor which is why the highest lvl of pvp is played in this game mode. You actually can see the potential of classes/specs. To see who are the best players in any game, you don't want any randomness/luck to be inviolved. In swtor, the best players are usually found in succesful group ranked teams who want to play vs other successful teams. The best want to play the best to prove they are the best.

 

It's amazing that you say the same things as Slimey, similarly devoid of any actual reasoning. None of what you said supports the idea that group ranked is in any way superior to solo ranked. Saying it's better because it's less random does not follow. As usual, you seem to think that your opinion is somehow a fact, despite actual evidence to the contrary. I guess some things never change.

 

To suggest that the best players are on successful group ranked teams is simply not true. Group ranked allows players to hide behind three other players. You can be a mediocre player with three really good players, and get carried to a high rating you certainly don't deserve. Furthermore, group ranked is barely being played at all. Take a look at the leaderboards yourself.

 

Part of what's really amusing in this thread, and why I'm continuing to post in it, is how offended group ranked supremacists like Slimey get when they are questioned. Players like Slimey quite enjoy feeling superior because they fancy themselves good at group ranked, which they view as the pinnacle of swtor pvp. They expect people to bow down to them. So when people question the relevancy of group ranked, it really rocks their world. It's important for people to understand how unimportant group ranked has become.

[JediMasterAlex]

Whenever a nerf is proposed, I cringe. I think most nerfs are proposed out of frustration and misguided ideas on how to better PVP but in reality the ideas usually center around how to better PVP for the individual making the claims a specific ability needs nerfed.

 

The nerfs that Hottie proposed are quite modest. Net would be nearly as good as it is now. It would simply help with stacked mercs. And whether Bioware can stop class stacking is a separate issue. I don't think there's any need to get all philosophical about it. As it stands, these kinds of nerfs would improve the balance, and therefore the fun of pvp all around. It's honestly a no-brainer.

[Zurules]

The class is overpowered due to it's extreme amount of DCDs.

 

The thing with merc dcds is that they are very easy to work around. what makes them seem even a bit stronger is that they are better vs burst which in solo ranked, is usually the best way to go to win, especially in 4v4 dps games. Merc are weak vs dot specs because they have no way to cleanse them.

 

Let's look at the dcds:

 

1. chaff flair : absorbs 2 force/tech abilities. (if timed well super good vs burst, useless vs dots)

2. 25 dr shield: general dcd that most classes have. (can spec in the 40% heal if hit enough to reach 10 charges, but if I remember correctly you lose the 30% stun dr if you take it)

3. adrenal rush: with utility becomes a good dcd that makes it very hard to burst them through it.

4. reflect: only useful for stopping burst damage. (this is not a heal to full at all. No merc should get healed twice from single target hits by anyone. use aoe abilities if you want to continue to damage them. Super simple and makes this dcd fairly weak.

5. hydrolics and rocket out: with all the movement in the game, I barely consider these as dcds.

 

Mercs are not op. They are strong because they have very good anti-burst capabilities. Just because most of us play burst specs and play into the mercs strengths, does not make them overpowered. In group ranked vs good coordinated teams, dps mercs are not very good because they are fairly easy to bait guard on to them so that we can swap to our main kill target.

 

The me, the element that makes them seem the strongest is the fact so many people are simply bad and don't think when they pvp. The amount of people who make reflect an actual heal to full is the best example of players who don't think when they play.

 

Side note: even lethality ops can be very good in pressure comps vs pressure comps. the extra healing they get without sacrificing dps with their ability to cleanse dots but also cc someone while their dots are on them can be very strong.

 

Learn what each spec is strong at and know their weaknesses. Every spec can be viable depending on the situation.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Zurules

[Severith]

E-net has been the one class-defining ability of the merc, which it seems most people forgot was on the bottom of the barrel for literally years. I mean years of total crap was this class.

 

E-net always was maligned, even when mercs were insta kills and offered up zero defense to ward off any close range/mid range dps classes. None of that mattered... E-net was too strong and needed nerfed, even years back this was proposed. Luckily BW in this case ignored the tears.

 

Long story short, this nerf aint happening.

 

The class is overpowered due to it's extreme amount of DCDs. Classes have always been able to work around E-net, sure it can be hard and sometimes multiple E-nets can spell the end for a target, but so what? Class stacking abilities is the main problem, and it exsists not just with merc E-net, but nearly any major attack ability that all DPS get. If I got 2-3 snipers that tunnel someone, and those snipers are decent, I am willing to bet the target dies. Such is PVP.

 

You can't start chipping away abilities just because they inconvenience your personal play style or your personal comp you like to run in ranked. Adjust to it, or propose better solutions to lowering the survivability of the merc, not the effectiveness it has to kill particularly certain classes easier than others with it's one class defining ability.

 

Whenever a nerf is proposed, I cringe. I think most nerfs are proposed out of frustration and misguided ideas on how to better PVP but in reality the ideas usually center around how to better PVP for the individual making the claims a specific ability needs nerfed.

 

Instead of nerfs, buff weak and crappy classes that need love like AP-PT, or maybe that dot-spec operative that is nothing but a running meme now for the past 3+ years. I'd rather see changes that make a big difference in the game, like improvements to many of the classes that simply are not viable in ranked and are even gimmicky in regs.

 

I think people need to stop fretting about how already decently constructed classes with little weaknesses within themselves struggle versus E-net, and instead focus on broader ways to make the game better.

 

Nerfs are lazy ways to solve class imbalance issues. Also, seeing there are more ways to avoid E-net than ever before, why nerf it now? I mean E-net was in the game when we barely had any ways to avoid CC. It had far more control and did far more damage back then compared to now.

 

Buffing other classes to balance overpowered other classes always leads to a quagmire of even worse class imbalances. It's not a productive way to fix things.

 

Remember Lhan, when 5.0 hit and for months you defended the merc situation, even though it was clearly out of hand? We all deserve a say in this, but you are the last person I'd trust for a respectable, objective opinion about it. Maybe the merc situation in 5.0 could of been handled alot quicker if the pvp community had appeared more unified, but some very loudmouthed people with some bad perspectives made it seem like the overall community was divided over it. 99% of us knew from the start it was horribly op.

 

I don't care how bad mercs were in 2.0. How the game is right now, and how it pans out in the future is more important. Even in 2.0, people were still really good with the class. If you want reperations for past merc abuse, don't look for it in current/future metas, because when that actually occures it only hurts the game. You know, just like it did in 5.0.

 

I've had my disagreements with the OP, but she touches on something that should be addressed: Roots and snares aren't effected by resolve. If you're ranged, and can heal/offheal, roots and snares don't mean nearly as much compared to a non stealth melee with no off heals.

 

Now the scary part: The set bonuses for 6.0 are 100% going to contain roots, snares, and slows. They've already given examples of doing that in the livestream. Subject to change? Sure. But they're going to be there.

 

I think it's time to discuss a seperate resolve bar for roots and slows, or to merge them into the current resolve system for certain advanced classes. If something to that effect doesn't happen, melee is going to be in even worse shape when 6.0 launches.

[SlimeyDoom]

@slimeydoom : Just try to ignore Alex. I had an argument with him in couple other threads as you might of seen and I learned that he is one of the most clueless players in regards of understanding pvp in this game. I concluded that he is a troll because how he refuses to understand the simplest of things no matter how clear you make it for him.

 

Yea I think I was coming to the conclusion that he's a joke. Back to the main point though, net does not need a nerf. If you are getting chain netted and focused by 2-3 mercs without a guard or a healer, you should die. No class should survive being focused by multiple players without outside help.

[JediMasterAlex]

Mercs are not op. They are strong

 

That's basically semantics. Whether you personally consider them overpowered or just strong, they are clearly the best pvp class by far. A nerf to net would make them slightly weaker, and bring them slightly closer to the rest of the dps classes. That's really all this is. Obviously mercs as they stand can be countered and beaten, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to balance them.

[Kaedusz]

To sum it up:

 

- The game is balanced around trinity 4s and should be. The fact that group ranked is dead(and it is) is irrelevant. Even if ranked is removed altogether, game should still be balanced around trinity 4s.

 

- Group ranked is dead. Imo solo is dead too, but w/e. A ranked scene that is not dead is WoW TBC arena for example. No chance to meet the same people game after game,ever.

 

- Don't nerf Electro Net. Mercs are not that powerful. At the most just make wether or not they stop charge, roll or bubble, depend on white bar. But increase the damage as a compensation.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Kaedusz

[rambolnet]

I agree that the game should be balanced around the arena format but that's a red herring. Firstly, it's possible to address problems in other PvP formats without impacting team ranked. Secondly, the proposed changes to Electro Net wouldn't seriously affect team ranked—and even if they did, so what? These proposals would be most impactful in solo ranked and unranked warzones, where it's common to see several mercenaries/commandos on a team.

 

I'm reading some contradictions ("Electro Net isn't a problem") and ad hominems ("nerfs are lazy", "you're biased/salty") but no compelling counterarguments or refutations. Cybertech grenades are a pertinent precedent here (and why I am in favour of the first proposal): if not for the Bastioned machanic, Cybertech grenades would be hell to play against.

 

It's too easy to lock down a player with successive nets—no particular skill, coordination or planning is called for—and there is no real counterplay. You can have solid positioning and use your breaker and defensive cooldowns intelligently to survive one net, maybe two, but you're quickly going to run out of resources.

 

Class stacking does cause problems and there are other examples of abilities that are difficult to defend against (Predation comes to mind) but that doesn't mean it's wrongheaded to try to address the worst of these problems.

Edited June 7, 2019 by rambolnet

[Lhancelot]

Buffing other classes to balance overpowered other classes always leads to a quagmire of even worse class imbalances. It's not a productive way to fix things.

 

I understand your point, but we got history here showing what BW does to classes to "balance" them and it's not the buff they give a class that usually ruins the power paradigm, nope it's the heavy handed nerfs they throw down on the supposed OP'd classes.

 

Sure, if they could simply peel a thin layer of power slowly off a class, then maybe that would work, but history has proven this is not the BW way. I rather them not nerf anymore classes, they ruin them, they strip the fun out of the class everytime they decide to "balance" a class with nerfs.

 

 

 

Remember Lhan, when 5.0 hit and for months you defended the merc situation, even though it was clearly out of hand? We all deserve a say in this, but you are the last person I'd trust for a respectable, objective opinion about it. Maybe the merc situation in 5.0 could of been handled alot quicker if the pvp community had appeared more unified, but some very loudmouthed people with some bad perspectives made it seem like the overall community was divided over it. 99% of us knew from the start it was horribly op.

 

Now, if we want to bring back comments we have made, literally 3-5 years ago and then proclaim that as reason not to consider anything someone has to add to a discussion, sure that's fine you can choose to do that. Thing is, that's a lot of narrative written about me and I feel a bit disrespected because the narrative is out of context.

 

I do remember eventually when mercs started to get buffs and improvements, much deserved by the way. And, I remember all the snide whiners who had been enjoying the free-kill merc phenomenon for years boohooing about how unfair it was mercs now had DCDs and massive burst.

 

This was years back, and the forums were a bit more "lively" let's just say.

 

 

More detail on those times you brought up, for you if you bored and feel like reading it:

 

 

 

So I had my fun rubbing it in their faces, just like any forum troll would after having to deal with years of "it's a L2P issue" why people found their mercs were free kills to any other DPS when tunneled. In reality the class was the closest thing SWTOR has ever had to a glass cannon then and even up to this point no class has ever had such weak defensives yet such powerful burst.

 

I guess PTs now can take that mantle now that I think about it, but point is I was being deliberately antagonistic when I used over-the-top hyperbolic statements regarding the state of the new improved mercs and the crumbling of some of the other classes position from the top of the pyramid.

 

I found it funny how sore these whiners were, when for years none of them once supported any of the threads I and others made BEGGING BW to improve the merc class.

 

Sorry no sympathy for my trollish manners then, most of the manchildren whining about the changes never cared when the merc class was a free kill so I damn sure wasn't going to feel pity for the poor people that suddenly were incapable of learning how to fight mercs with added better DCDs. Now, it was THEIR L2P issues.

 

I was just expressing the normal spirit of the forums back then, but admit I was very antagonistic sometimes when i felt provoked. Let's forget about those dark days now, and bury grudges and the hatchet.

 

 

 

 

 

Guess what, the merc DPS specs has been weakened with less burst, and probably could still use some slight adjustments to their DCDs. Thing is, there's other classes that are in far more worse situation of being really clunky in performance and/or simply weak and far too ineffective in too many facets of combat to be enjoyable.

 

We really are going to cry about E-net now? For the millionth time?

 

 

 

I don't care how bad mercs were in 2.0. How the game is right now, and how it pans out in the future is more important. Even in 2.0, people were still really good with the class. If you want reperations for past merc abuse, don't look for it in current/future metas, because when that actually occures it only hurts the game. You know, just like it did in 5.0.

 

 

Well, I do care about classes past performances because that's the only way we keep things in perspective. I agree merc DCDs probably need adjusted, but their E-net was never gamebreaking and it isn't gamebreaking now.

 

What is gamebreaking is across the board many other classes are not even able to perform at the same level as other classes in any meta, not one game mode! Some classes are so pathetic and weak they can't even participate in ranked, especially solo. But let's worry about E-net and how game-crippling it is.

 

 

 

I've had my disagreements with the OP, but she touches on something that should be addressed: Roots and snares aren't effected by resolve. If you're ranged, and can heal/offheal, roots and snares don't mean nearly as much compared to a non stealth melee with no off heals.

 

Now, if you want to get into CC, that's another story and I feel it's far too bloated. PVP has turned into more of a strategic game revolving around CC or immunities to CC. For years, I have written I hate it. The more speed boosts they add, the more sick I get. The more abilities that grant immunities to CC only force BW to create more CC so it's just a big crap-storm of movement hindering/movement boosting abilities with toons flying all over the place.

 

This not only sucks the enjoyment out of PVP for me, but it also has rendered many maps irrelevant. These maps were made with very specific dimensions to accommodate the movements of the different classes in PVP.

 

When BW decided to add superhero leaps and teleports for all classes (just hyperbole I know not all classes get ports just making a point though,) rolls that avoid all damage and shoots the player far out of reach with the added bonus this same ability acts as a rocket launcher when the operative decides to roll off a high perched area allowing them for an easy escape with no way to stop such an escape.

 

I'd rather see roll touched up and refined so it's not so damn glitchy than see them mess with E-net, because roll causes far more problems with desyncing issues and other ingame disruptions to the point a whole team can end up seeing someone that teleports/rolls/ or uses any other of the newer special movement gap closer abilities ghosting all over the map.

 

The player can't help it but this hurts the games more than E-net does imo. Maybe not in ranked, but I refuse to discuss removing or gimping an ability for one type of game mode and for the simple accommodation of a certain type of team meta to deal with them better in ranked. E-net works great in regs, and I am sure the players in ranked know how to manage merc E-nets or can learn how if not.

 

 

 

Now the scary part: The set bonuses for 6.0 are 100% going to contain roots, snares, and slows. They've already given examples of doing that in the livestream. Subject to change? Sure. But they're going to be there.

 

If true, I don't like that either. I already expressed my disdain for roots, added CC, added CC immunities, I just hate this part of SWTOR PVP now. They do not need to add more hindrance type abilities in PVP, or speed boosts.

 

 

 

I think it's time to discuss a seperate resolve bar for roots and slows, or to merge them into the current resolve system for certain advanced classes. If something to that effect doesn't happen, melee is going to be in even worse shape when 6.0 launches.

 

 

I think they should revamp the entire CC system, they would have to literally go through every class and restructure their abilities though and they are never going to do this.

 

BW seems content with just packing on additional features regardless if the foundation of previous abilities need to be really reworked.

 

Instead, they just pack on more abilities on top of the old ones, good or bad. BW just seems to never want to go backwards, once they lay the tracks down there's no picking them back up to rebuild and improve them, it's just let's throw some more tracks on top of these old ones and hope the train keeps on a moving.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Lhancelot

[JediMasterAlex]

I agree that the game should be balanced around the arena format but that's a red herring. Firstly, it's possible to address problems in other PvP formats without impacting team ranked. Secondly, the proposed changes to Electro Net wouldn't seriously affect team ranked—and even if they did, so what? These proposals would be most impactful in solo ranked and unranked warzones, where it's common to see several mercenaries/commandos on a team.

 

I'm reading some contradictions ("Electro Net isn't a problem") and ad hominems ("nerfs are lazy", "you're biased/salty") but no compelling counterarguments or refutations. Cybertech grenades are a pertinent precedent here (and why I am in favour of the first proposal): if not for the Bastioned machanic, Cybertech grenades would be hell to play against.

 

It's too easy to lock down a player with successive nets—no particular skill, coordination or planning is called for—and there is no real counterplay. You can have solid positioning and use your breaker and defensive cooldowns intelligently to survive one net, maybe two, but you're quickly going to run out of resources.

 

Class stacking does cause problems and there are other examples of abilities that are difficult to defend against (Predation comes to mind) but that doesn't mean it's wrongheaded to try to address the worst of these problems.

 

What a positively reasonable post. Thanks Rambol!

[kissingaiur]

If mercs get a Bastion debuff on Electro Net I would agree that it should be 90 seconds timer, in line with their cd of the ability. That is a good point which slipped my mind. My main concern was to stop someone from being locked out from doing anything because players are throwing nets on them one after another.