PvP Suggestion: Revising Electro Net

[Friend-Referral]

I don’t think it’s worth the effort Zur. I do think it’s pretty funny how he calls us terrible, but we’ve actually gotten top threes in solo ranked while his only real accomplishment is getting tokens from queueing every day.

 

Logically, people would value the opinion of players who are legitimate, not cheated, top three players in both solo ranked and group ranked, over someone who lacks any real accomplishment in solo ranked and has not done group ranked in any meaningful way. When talking about group ranked versus solo ranked, would you trust the opinion of someone who does both very well, or someone who only does one at a mediocre level?

 

Oh well, we tried.

Fact: he's never called either of you guys terrible.

 

Fact: group ranked is virtually dead and full of wintrading and cheating, thus throws shade on the claim that it's the "pinnacle of ranked pvp".

 

Fact: your top 3s don't mean much if anything at all due to all the rampant wintrading, cheating, que manipulation and the old way solo ranked matchmaking worked in that it stacked all the higher elo players against all the lower ones.

Edited June 8, 2019 by ColorfulCaiques

[Zurules]

Are any of the Crushers coming back for 6.0 btw?

My computer has been out for repairs since the release of all this new information in 6.0 so I have not spoken to anyone in a while because of it. I'm fairly certain most if not all members of the crushers will comme back to atleast try it when 6.0 comes out. Edited June 8, 2019 by Zurules

[Zurules]

Your analogy only makes sense if you are already assuming that there is a progression from solo ranked to group ranked like there is from hard mode to nightmare mode, but there isn't.

 

Using the word coequal helped me think of a cool analogy. The US government has three coequal branches. You can have arguments about which is the most powerful of the three, but the constitution treats them as essentially equals (though it devotes the most time to Congress). But let's say Congress got totally reformed so that it just consisted of a panel of 8 people, and they only meet a few times a year. Sure, it still exists, but if people are debating which branch is the most powerful, obviously Congress has been disqualified from the conversation. Maybe every once in a while they still come up with a great new reform, but because hardly anybody is in it, and it meets infrequently, it has little actual power, whereas previously it had been the primary branch with many responsibilities.

 

The thing is Alex, there is a progression from solo ranked to group ranked.

 

When people want to measure skill accurately, you want to remove all elements of randomness possible. The reason for this is because randomness brings in a factor called luck. No one who claims to be the best at anything, claims it to be because they got lucky. They will tell you that they have talent, they put the work in and developed their skills to the point that they are able to perform their best based on the choices they choose to make when playing what ever they are playing.

 

Solo ranked has a huge element of luck to it because you never know who will be on your team and you never know the teams composition in regards to heals, dps, tank. Group ranked takes away that element of randomness which is why group ranked is a step forward in terms of progression above solo ranked.

 

I'm not accustomed to politics, let alone politics from a country I am not from. So unfortunately, your analogy does not speak to me since I do not know nearly enough about any aspect of American government to understand your point.

[JediMasterAlex]

The thing is Alex, there is a progression from solo ranked to group ranked.

 

When people want to measure skill accurately, you want to remove all elements of randomness possible. The reason for this is because randomness brings in a factor called luck. No one who claims to be the best at anything, claims it to be because they got lucky. They will tell you that they have talent, they put the work in and developed their skills to the point that they are able to perform their best based on the choices they choose to make when playing what ever they are playing.

 

Solo ranked has a huge element of luck to it because you never know who will be on your team and you never know the teams composition in regards to heals, dps, tank. Group ranked takes away that element of randomness which is why group ranked is a step forward in terms of progression above solo ranked.

 

Several issues here. Yes, solo ranked does involve luck from game to game, but the importance of luck diminishes the more games you play. Plus, and most importantly, the fact that it involves luck does not make it inherently inferior. Group ranked has a similar (and almost opposite) weakness, which is that you can get consistently carried by your team. If you put merely a decent player with three very good, experienced ranked players, that team is going to do very well (assuming there was still a group ranked to play in). Your objection will be that they couldn't compete with the very top teams. Sure, but in an active group ranked scene, that merely decent player could certainly get carried by three better players to a rating that he doesn't deserve. Obviously this isn't even counting the fact that wintrading and guild organized "kick ball" group ranked sessions (which probably make up half of the very little group ranked still played) are quite common, and are far more insidious factors than luck.

 

In other words, the fact that solo ranked contains more random variables, and more luck, does not mean that there is a progression from solo ranked to group ranked. That doesn't follow logically. You're free to have that opinion, but that doesn't make it a fact.

 

And let me be clear about my larger point. If there was an active group ranked scene wherein many of the top players formed teams that consistently played against each other all season long, then you could make a good case that group ranked was the place to demonstrate greater skill in pvp. It still wouldn't necessarily be an open and shut case, but you could plausibly make it. Now that it's dead, group ranked is totally irrelevant.

 

I'm not accustomed to politics, let alone politics from a country I am not from. So unfortunately, your analogy does not speak to me since I do not know nearly enough about any aspect of American government to understand your point.

 

Well, I think I explained enough about my analogy for it to make sense, but maybe it still doesn't to a non-American, so my apologies.

Edited June 8, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Rion_Starkiller]

popcorn anyone?

 

Forum pvp at its finest. It looks like Slimey and Zurules are 2v1'ing Alex. Someone needs to take their pop so it's an equal 2v2.

[Friend-Referral]

Forum pvp at its finest. It looks like Slimey and Zurules are 2v1'ing Alex. Someone needs to take their pop so it's an equal 2v2.

He's doing great in his little forum duel against those 2. If there was a top 3 for forum pvp, he would definitely deserve a spot

[JediMasterAlex]

Forum pvp at its finest. It looks like Slimey and Zurules are 2v1'ing Alex. Someone needs to take their pop so it's an equal 2v2.

 

 

He's doing great in his little forum duel against those 2. If there was a top 3 for forum pvp, he would definitely deserve a spot

 

[foxmob]

My computer has been out for repairs since the release of all this new information in 6.0 so I have not spoken to anyone in a while because of it. I'm fairly certain most if not all members of the crushers will comme back to atleast try it when 6.0 comes out.

 

lmao. when has anything ever worked upon release. tell them to wait...well...it's BW. maybe 12 months?

[Zurules]

Forum pvp at its finest. It looks like Slimey and Zurules are 2v1'ing Alex. Someone needs to take their pop so it's an equal 2v2.

I'm glad you are enjoying your popcorn. But I think that in this case, most players will choose to decline the pop since they know Alex got a pop and they don't want to risk being on the team with an autoloss.

[JediMasterAlex]

I'm glad you are enjoying your popcorn. But I think that in this case, most players will choose to decline the pop since they know Alex got a pop and they don't want to risk being on the team with an autoloss.

 

How droll. You're happy making such low quality posts? I confess myself disappointed.

[Zurules]

How droll. You're happy making such low quality posts? I confess myself disappointed.

 

It's really hard to have a quality argument with someone who only uses his opinions to support his points. What is sad is that you managed to even contradict your own opinion with another of your own opinions.

 

Trust me, I much prefer and would be happy to have a good argument with someone who can actually back up their opinions with some facts. Then something productive and useful for the community could be created, but as I said earlier, at this point all we got here with you is some entertainment value.

[JediMasterAlex]

It's really hard to have a quality argument with someone who only uses his opinions to support his points. What is sad is that you managed to even contradict your own opinion with another of your own opinions.

 

I haven't contradicted myself. Merely saying something doesn't make it so. Ironic.

[Storm-Cutter]

I just want Electro net to only do 10HP damage per second when it's cast on me,

but

when I cast it one someone else, it spreads to the nearest 8 enemies, does 5K per second for 20 seconds, disables breakers, slows them to 2M every 10 seconds and kills them if they move more than 5M

 

Seriously though I usually cast it on melee classes and not one of them ever seems to stop moving - they just eat the effect or shrug it off. It's not exactly a death sentence unless you're low on HP and the merc + their team targets you as you run away.

[Zurules]

I haven't contradicted myself. Merely saying something doesn't make it so. Ironic.

O but Alex you did =(, I even provided the evidence of it. You really must have a short memory. Just go look at the first post on page 10 for another refresher.

[foxmob]

Seriously though I usually cast it on melee classes and not one of them ever seems to stop moving - they just eat the effect or shrug it off. It's not exactly a death sentence unless you're low on HP and the merc + their team targets you as you run away.

 

yep. maras, juggs, sins (to a lesser degree), ops are rarely deterred by net between baked-in abils and talented ones. but it is highly effective on focused targets. which is also a situation in which you'd find chain nets.

[JediMasterAlex]

O but Alex you did =(, I even provided the evidence of it. You really must have a short memory. Just go look at the first post on page 10 for another refresher.

 

I thoroughly explained exactly why what you posted was not a contradiction at all. See the second post on page 10. Your reading comprehension skills are once again proven legendary.

 

yep. maras, juggs, sins (to a lesser degree), ops are rarely deterred by net between baked-in abils and talented ones. but it is highly effective on focused targets. which is also a situation in which you'd find chain nets.

 

Well put.

Edited June 9, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Zurules]

I thoroughly explained exactly why what you posted was not a contradiction at all. See the second post on page 10. Your reading comprehension skills are once again proven legendary.

 

As to your specific allegations, I never said that I thought that solo ranked rating had no correlation with skill. It clearly has some. And you've clearly had success in solo ranked...in the distant past when teams got stacked in favor of the higher ranked players, and before cross faction so it was easy to only queue on the side with good players. Conveniently, since solo ranked became far fairer, you haven't had that kind of success. And I've seen you play recently, and I wasn't overly impressed. Therefore, I said that your past success did not make you a "great" player or a "pvp expert" as you laughably dub yourself. There is no contradiction here.

 

Your explanation doesn't have much weight which is why it is a contradiction. You say I have not had as much success as I did in the past, but if you look at the total amount of games played, you can clearly see that I barely play solo ranked anymore. On top of that, I got my rating to where I wanted it to be because I think 1525 might be tier 1 this season with only 27-28 games played. You have over 400 wins and id guess around 350 loses just to reach 1500.

 

In season 1, I had 202 wins and finished 5th overall, season 2 I had 325 wins and was second overall, in season 3 i had 197 wins and was third overall. When I came back for season 9, I had 404 wins got 4th overall. These were the 4 seasons that I made it my goal to be in the top 5 overall when I had time to play. I also got another top 3 title in season 8. Basically it took me about on average like 260ish wins to reach the top 5 overall for shadows as a DPS each time. If I had the time to play that many games, im extremely confident that I'd make the top 5 overall if I made it my goal. You say that I could not do it since cross-faction yet I did do it in season 9 which was a season with cross-faction with the most participation since season 1.

 

You also said that you watch me play while you where on my team and said you were not impressed. I wonder why you think that? My best guess is because I didn't put out a lot of high dps numbers which I am certain you think is extremely important. High dps numbers is never my priority, I don't think that is best way to play my class and spec(infiltration). My spec(infiltration) is best to focus on control using cc, interrupts and guard to give my team the best chance at winning. Doing dps at the right moments is way more important than doing dps all the time even if I am a dps spec. Winning is the goal, not doing the highest dps numbers. Determining a players skill by looking at their dps numbers is the #1 mistake made my average and bad pvpers like yourself.

 

With almost all of my post involving you, I point out all the holes in your "explanations" which is why I consider your explanations to be worthless. In this case, the holes I point out in your defense of your statements not being a contradiction, are too large for your defense to stay afloat. Therefore, your statements are contradictions just as I have proven with facts.

 

Now, lets hear your next defense as I am certain you will continue to do so with more of your opinions and no facts.

[JediMasterAlex]

On top of that, I got my rating to where I wanted it to be because I think 1525 might be tier 1 this season with only 27-28 games played. You have over 400 wins and id guess around 350 loses just to reach 1500.

 

I also got my rating to over 1500 in less than 30 games this season. I can send you screenshots to prove it if you want. I continue to play because I actually have fun playing solo ranked. Imagine that.

 

You also said that you watch me play while you where on my team and said you were not impressed. I wonder why you think that? My best guess is because I didn't put out a lot of high dps numbers which I am certain you think is extremely important.

 

Wrong again lol. Totally clueless.

 

With almost all of my post involving you, I point out all the holes in your "explanations" which is why I consider your explanations to be worthless. In this case, the holes I point out in your defense of your statements not being a contradiction, are too large for your defense to stay afloat. Therefore, your statements are contradictions just as I have proven with facts.

 

The facts that you provided have nothing to do with anything I've said. You haven't pointed out any holes in my explanations. There are no contradictions in my statements that I'm aware of. If you find an actual contradiction, please do point it out for me.

 

Also, we've pretty much already had this debate in another thread where I definitively showed the irrelevancy of your ranked success in the distant past. Not sure of the point of rehashing it all again. You're just making yourself look worse and worse.

Edited June 10, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Zurules]

You also said that you watch me play while you where on my team and said you were not impressed. I wonder why you think that? My best guess is because I didn't put out a lot of high dps numbers which I am certain you think is extremely important.

 

Wrong again lol. Totally clueless.

 

Once again you don't answer the question. This must be your "spec" on the forums. So I will ask again, why do you think that?

 

 

I also got my rating to over 1500 in less than 30 games this season. I can send you screenshots to prove it if you want. I continue to play because I actually have fun playing solo ranked. Imagine that.

You take screenshots of your solo ranked record? That is quite sad tbh lol

 

The facts that you provided have nothing to do with anything I've said. You haven't pointed out any holes in my explanations. There are no contradictions in my statements that I'm aware of. If you find an actual contradiction, please do point it out for me.

 

Your contradiction is so clear, I understand how it might be invisible to you.

 

Also, we've pretty much already had this debate in another thread where I definitively showed the irrelevancy of your ranked success in the distant past. Not sure of the point of rehashing it all again. You're just making yourself look worse and worse.

 

Your absolutely right that we had this argument before. Just as before I pointed out all the holes in all your arguments and your counter arguments repeatedly over and over and over again. It's literally all I've done with you. It's interesting that you think i'm making myself look worse and worse, since everytime you post, I feel the exact same about you.

 

You sort of remind me of the type of person who is super confident in themselves. But the reason you are so confident is because you are unable to see all the dangers that surround you which everyone else sees. Like a group of friends on a boat who want to go swimming but someone sees a dorsal fin of a shark, and when everyone looks at it, you would say: that's not a shark. And you would go jump in the water while everyone else stays in the boat because of the possible danger.

[JediMasterAlex]

I'm glad you are enjoying your popcorn. But I think that in this case, most players will choose to decline the pop since they know Alex got a pop and they don't want to risk being on the team with an autoloss.

 

You take screenshots of your solo ranked record? That is quite sad tbh lol

 

Apparently these are the only kinds of replies you have left to offer. They really speak volumes.

 

I'm just happy to have consistently demonstrated that your opinions on pvp carry very little weight. Rather than offering arguments that stand up on their own, you always simply resort to citing ancient, irrelevant accomplishments (and remember, Zurules self styles himself a "pvp expert," which really still tickles me. Can you imagine the delusional arrogance required?). I think everyone can see that now. Hopefully people reading your posts in the future will now have a clearer picture of what you're all about.

Edited June 10, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Zurules]

Apparently these are the only kinds of replies you have left to offer. They really speak volumes.

 

I'm just happy to have consistently demonstrated that your opinions on pvp carry very little weight. Rather than offering arguments that stand up on their own, you always simply resort to citing ancient, irrelevant accomplishments (and remember, Zurules self styles himself a "pvp expert," which really still tickles me. Can you imagine the delusional arrogance required?). I think everyone can see that now. Hopefully people reading your posts in the future will now have a clearer picture of what you're all about.

 

My accomplishments in pvp are in the 8v8s and first few seasons of 4v4s which were a long time ago when there were a lot of excellent pvpers around. My last accomplishment was season in 9. You still want to consider that to be too ancient, fine. The point here is that I actually have accomplishments at the highest lvl at all the peak times in this games history for pvp.

 

Is it just me who finds it funny that after he complains about me citing older stuff, that his next sentence he literally does the same lol. Love the irony Alex

 

O I almost forgot Alex, remember that question you keep dodging that I brought up in my previous post. I'll ask it again in caps since your making me think that this also might also be invisible to you.

 

You also said that you watch me play while you where on my team and said you were not impressed. I wonder why you think that?

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT ALEX?

[JediMasterAlex]

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT ALEX?

 

The only reason I ignored it is because it's yet again another topic entirely. Why am I obligated to say why I think your play was nothing special? I don't think it would lead to anything productive, because you would just dispute any characterization I make of your play. It's not like I have recordings of it.

 

With all that being said, I'll summarize for you. I saw you throw out cc's that got broken immediately (by other people obviously, but that's an important factor to consider in solos). Multiple times I saw you attacking the completely wrong targets. Other than that, your play was just normal sin fare. The only thing I saw you do well was offguard, which is something that arguably shouldn't be allowed in the first place and is hardly very impressive. My impressions had literally nothing to do with your damage numbers. If you hadn't had a top 3 title on, I wouldn't have even taken notice of your play, it was just standard sin stuff.

 

And remember, to be clear, both initially and now, I never called you a bad player. In fact, I mentioned many times that you're clearly a good player. But you're nothing special. Nothing "great" or "pvp expert" or "I have a superior strategic mind" about your play (all things Zurules has said about himself). And there's one more thing I should mention here. I have seen top players that made me sit back and go "wow, that guy is actually amazing." Not you though.

 

Before you reply, remember that you explicitly asked for my opinion on this matter. And also remember that I'm making no claims here about my own play. I've never claimed to be a great or flawless player, because i'm not a delusional megalomaniac.

[Zurules]

The only reason I ignored it is because it's yet again another topic entirely. Why am I obligated to say why I think your play was nothing special? I don't think it would lead to anything productive, because you would just dispute any characterization I make of your play. It's not like I have recordings of it.

 

With all that being said, I'll summarize for you. I saw you throw out cc's that got broken immediately (by other people obviously, but that's an important factor to consider in solos). Multiple times I saw you attacking the completely wrong targets. Other than that, your play was just normal sin fare. The only thing I saw you do well was offguard, which is something that arguably shouldn't be allowed in the first place and is hardly very impressive. My impressions had literally nothing to do with your damage numbers. If you hadn't had a top 3 title on, I wouldn't have even taken notice of your play, it was just standard sin stuff.

 

And remember, to be clear, both initially and now, I never called you a bad player. In fact, I mentioned many times that you're clearly a good player. But you're nothing special. Nothing "great" or "pvp expert" or "I have a superior strategic mind" about your play (all things Zurules has said about himself). And there's one more thing I should mention here. I have seen top players that made me sit back and go "wow, that guy is actually amazing." Not you though.

 

Before you reply, remember that you explicitly asked for my opinion on this matter. And also remember that I'm making no claims here about my own play. I've never claimed to be a great or flawless player, because i'm not a delusional megalomaniac.

 

Thank you for answering the question. You are absolutely right that I often go on the "wrong target" that I tell ppl to go on. I like to force dcds then swap to the secondary target to force dcds that will help later on. For people breaking my cc's , I have no influence on the idiots who do that. CCing is still the correct play to do. Off-guarding should absolutely be available for dps specs who have the option to play tanks. It adds complexity to the game with a greater risk/reward if done properly. It is nice to finally hear your opinion from your observations, because only I know what I am thinking when I play, so to see your perception of events is interesting because I can now compare the two.

 

I never said that you said that I was a bad player, so I dunno why you mention that. In regards to my strategic mind, I do think I understand the game better than most and the decisions I make accordingly when I pvp differs from what I see most people do. One thing I always found strange are shadows/sins who take the 15% movement speed boost or and the lower cd on the vanish. Those to me are horrible utilities for solo ranked and I have never taken them.

 

You keep calling me delusional, having different opinions on how to pvp and how effective you think you are in pvp doesn't make anyone delusional. Just look at my results before calling me delusional. The way I play is very effective for winning which is the only goal in any solo ranked or group ranked match.

[kissingaiur]

nice to come back to this thread hoping there is some educated discussions to reply to, only witness 13 pages of 3 people yelling at each other off topic

 

take it to pms and hug it out jesus christ

Edited June 11, 2019 by kissingaiur

[merovejec]

nice to come back to this thread hoping there is some educated discussions to reply to, only witness 13 pages of 3 people yelling at each other off topic

 

take it to pms and hug it out jesus christ

 

To come back to your suggestions, they were all good ideas, its just hard to say what is best to implement. For me the thing that sucks is the resolve thing. Its really silly that you are able to avoid being stunned and killed due to the resolve mechanic, but electronet applies even with full resolve which makes things really complicated.

 

One Merc that saves the net for the right moment is a game changer when it comes to killing many classes that can vanish, like Shadow, Scoundrel and Sent, then those that can PW. So I would probably go for this option to cancel the enet effects when resolve is full.