It’s time to make HK-55 and Chapter 10 available for subs??

[robertthebard]

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I’m not going argue or play semantics for the sake of it.

Our positions are so far apart on this topic I can’t see us every finding any thing to agree with.

 

I'm good with that, we do seem to be diametrically opposed.

[Darev]

I don't think it's a matter of "if" they re-release the bonus chapter, but a matter of "when" and "how". About a year and a half ago a dataminer came across a CM item for the chapter unlock, so it seems like they've been flirting with this idea for awhile.

 

If they do go the CM unlock route they are going to have a lot of trouble coming up with a suitable price. People's ideas about what a fair price is are all over the place, from practically giving it away, to charging an arm and a leg for it. I think they'd be better off breaking it down into multiple offerings rather than selling the whole thing as a package. There is no reason the chapter couldn't be sold without the companions and deco and then have each of those be sold separately. Actually, this would make me quite happy, because then I could then buy account unlocks for the companions and get them on all of the many characters I have that will never progress through KotFE...

 

Hadn't really thought of what I would consider a "fair" CM price would be.

Off the top of my head, I'd say 3600 CC.

6 months of free CC from a sub. 600 CC/month * 6 months.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hadn't really thought of what I would consider a "fair" CM price would be.

Off the top of my head, I'd say 3600 CC.

6 months of free CC from a sub. 600 CC/month * 6 months.

 

What if you just paid for a 6 month sub?

[ceryxp]

Really, this is what you want to run with? So tell me, do you not have a phone because you missed one of those promotions? My carrier has given away my exact phone a lot of times under similar situations.

 

Here's the problem: DLC isn't a phone. The phone carrier doesn't require you to carry a service plan w/out said for phone for 7 months, and before you want to latch onto "but the other sub rewards" line, how many hours of play time did I log during that 7 months? So unless you're paying your carrier currently for not providing you with your phone, this analogy really sucks, eh? If you are paying your carrier w/out having a phone, I have some ocean front property in Arizona I need to sell fast.

 

All of that is irrelevant because you are missing the point. If BW chooses to offer it again then that is what happens. No kvetching on your part is going to change that and no justification is needed from anyone. We don't have to justify our interest in the content; to you or to anyone. That is all that has happened here. We have expressed our interest. If BW chooses to offer it again that is their prerogative. We have offered suggestions on how they could offer the content again. Whatever BW chooses to do is their prerogative. Those of us who want the content offered again have not made demands, have not issued ultimatums, have not made threats, we have expressed interest but the decision of whether the content is offered again is solely BW's prerogative. What you don't seem to grasp is that if BW chooses to run a new promotion that offers this content they are completely free to do so without any regard to the prior promotion because that has ended. They met the terms of that promotion and can choose to offer a different promotion with the same or similar rewards and different conditions. You can not claim they violated the terms of that promotion because they didn't. They met their obligations under those terms and are now free to offer a different promotion with different terms. Your only recourse is to express your dissatisfaction and/or cancel your subscription. But nobody has to justify anything to you. Not the players who have expressed their interest, because interest requires no justification, and not BW who are within their rights to offer a new promotion with the same rewards.

[QuinlanSaathis]

Hadn't really thought of what I would consider a "fair" CM price would be.

Off the top of my head, I'd say 3600 CC.

6 months of free CC from a sub. 600 CC/month * 6 months.

 

I don't know how you can price it so low.

10k minimum is far more appropriate.

 

There are blasters on the CM now for 5100, are you saying this content is worth less than a couple of guns?

It took 7 months of subbing to get this reward the first time and it was only available to subs.

Putting it on the CM makes it available to FTP and Preferred and it needs to be priced to reflect that massive change in status.

 

Companion x2

Story Chapter

6 Months subscription (no coins)

All for at least 10k, I am thinking 12k is about right

Edited May 14, 2019 by QuinlanSaathis

[Nuffmeister]

I say offer it as part of a 6 month or longer subscription in the form of a new offer. You can choose to renew your sub with that chapter and rewards attached.

 

If they really feel the need to give anything to those that already had it, give them some a Hypercrate or CC equivalent.

 

I'm also very much in favour of having subscriber rewards à la SWG as has been mentioned. That would be very cool.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Nuffmeister

[Benirons]

This conversation is certainly timely as it is a topic we have been revisiting internally as well. We have been actively talking about how, when, and if it would be possible to get make the HK chapter available again in some form. Whether that is a sub reward, sold on the market, etc.

 

Here is the thing we are trying to be sensitive to. Individuals who have it right now subbed for a number of months to get it and so if/when we bring it back, we need to make sure that we do it in a way that is fair to what they went through to get it. Ex: if it was a sub reward it would likely require multiple months of sub, or, if it was in the market it would be sold for a premium.

 

There is a lot of sensitivity on both sides. We agree that we would love to have a way for players who don't have it to get it (since it is story content, afterall). But it has to be done in a way that is fair to those who already have it. Let us know your thoughts (for, or against) and I can make sure all of your feedback is captured in our on-going discussion.

 

As a note I won't likely have an update on this in the short-tem, but as soon as I have any details I will pass them on.

 

-eric

 

Nah, no need to be fair. Those who subbed at the time wuda subbed anyway. Subbing for a certain time only to get one lousy comp or 2 is pretty expensive....

 

Such exclusivity is rather unnecessary. And a big big middle finger to anyone who was not even around for that time and had no chance to sub even if they wanted to get the reward.

[BRKMSN]

Nah, no need to be fair. Those who subbed at the time wuda subbed anyway. Subbing for a certain time only to get one lousy comp or 2 is pretty expensive....

 

Such exclusivity is rather unnecessary. And a big big middle finger to anyone who was not even around for that time and had no chance to sub even if they wanted to get the reward.

 

Yes. Some of the people would have subbed anyway. But the promo was aimed at the portion of the player base that would have unsubbed during the several month stretch of no new chapters.

 

If people weren't around, they wouldn't have been able to want something they didn't know about. Missing out on some things is just a normal part of life.

 

You obviously see things your way, but I see things differently. It wasn't a "middle finger" to those that missed it, it was a nice reward for those that were there. You see a penalty. I see a reward..

[robertthebard]

All of that is irrelevant because you are missing the point. If BW chooses to offer it again then that is what happens. No kvetching on your part is going to change that and no justification is needed from anyone. We don't have to justify our interest in the content; to you or to anyone. That is all that has happened here. We have expressed our interest. If BW chooses to offer it again that is their prerogative. We have offered suggestions on how they could offer the content again. Whatever BW chooses to do is their prerogative. Those of us who want the content offered again have not made demands, have not issued ultimatums, have not made threats, we have expressed interest but the decision of whether the content is offered again is solely BW's prerogative. What you don't seem to grasp is that if BW chooses to run a new promotion that offers this content they are completely free to do so without any regard to the prior promotion because that has ended. They met the terms of that promotion and can choose to offer a different promotion with the same or similar rewards and different conditions. You can not claim they violated the terms of that promotion because they didn't. They met their obligations under those terms and are now free to offer a different promotion with different terms. Your only recourse is to express your dissatisfaction and/or cancel your subscription. But nobody has to justify anything to you. Not the players who have expressed their interest, because interest requires no justification, and not BW who are within their rights to offer a new promotion with the same rewards.

 

Except you're the one missing the point: Releasing this means that they lied to everyone that was here when this promotion went live. They could have avoided the whole issue by not requiring the 7 month sub period, or, by stating that they may well release it under different circumstances later. They did neither of those, but instead stated that this was the way to get this content. My whole issue is being misled into spending money I may not have spent. Again: My issue is that if they re-release this, they lied to me in order to keep me subbed for bonuses above and beyond what a normal sub would cover.

 

I can, in fact not only claim that they did, if they re-release it, I can show that they did by simply pointing to however they choose to re-release the content. It's really simple, if you weren't so busy trying to justify "but I want it, so they should find a way to get it to me". What's not clear about "If you want this, you must be subbed from x to y and complete x chapters" going to "Well, if you do z you can have it, regardless of what we stated previously". How is that not violating the terms of the initial promotion, since it's literally violating the terms of the original promotion to re-release the content?

[robertthebard]

Nah, no need to be fair. Those who subbed at the time wuda subbed anyway. Subbing for a certain time only to get one lousy comp or 2 is pretty expensive....

 

Such exclusivity is rather unnecessary. And a big big middle finger to anyone who was not even around for that time and had no chance to sub even if they wanted to get the reward.

 

I may not have. But there was a carrot at the end of a stick that seemed appealing. Knowing then what I know now, I may have cancelled anyway, since there's no real reason to have the companions. They don't tie into anything, they can't, since not everyone was supposed to get them, until some people decide it's time to rationalize "but we want it, and so should be able to get it, no matter what the deal was initially". Who knows, I could have saved myself 3 or 4 months worth of sub time, and as much as I didn't really play in that time, maybe that would have been for the best. Regardless, you don't get to say "subbing for a couple of comps is expensive" in a thread discussing finding an alternate way to get them. What are you then going to say if they say "you have to sub for 7 months to get them"? Is it going to be a victory for the "stick to the old timers that did it before", or is it going to be a new thread insisting that they reduce the cost "because reasons"?

[Sarlegant]

Progression moves on, there is no going back.

I did unsub, and whether I get to play this chapter or not, hk55 will still be a halo standing beside Darth Marr’s halo on my Nar stronghold. That’s it, I will not spend millions of creds to gift him up, he will never crack my starting 9 comps on any of my toons. I won’t spend 10 real dollars worth of CC to even play the chapter now.

 

So far, the only poster I see that really understands is Trixxie... it’s about keeping the servers turned on.

We do get new players to this game, I was talking to a couple yesterday in my guild. Newbs, can see that chapter, they can get a viable HK-55 that is relevant to their progression.

 

It is Important to pave the road, and give these newbs a chance to catch up, to get them invested.. otherwise, the last 10k founders can mourn when BioWare closes down the last server.

[Gilrenna]

It's story content. If you think about it like a book, or a comic book, they get reprinted all the time.

 

If you bought the first printing, great. Good for you. If it ever becomes valuable (monetarily) you can resell it for more than you paid for it as a collector's item. Print run #2 looks exactly the same (on a novel/book) it just has a little difference on a single page in small print.

 

For a comic book, back in the 90's anyway, occasionally the covers were a different color, AND there was a "2nd printing" mark at the bottom of the indicia.

 

This chapter, as story content, should be able to be recycled.

 

They're at least asking how to do it angering as few people as possible.

 

Good point. Having this offered now would give those of us that weren't playing the game back then a chance to enjoy this story content.

[Ryu_Wanderfalke]

How many people are really going to rage quit because they didn't get something that wasn't offered to them, or that they chose to ignore? Let's see some numbers, because "a lot" is subjective. How many unique posters in this thread would quit if it weren't offered again? Is that going to be "a lot"? I've seen a couple that have already stated it's not a big deal, and yet they keep arguing for it? For me, it's "this is what we were told, and this is what it should be". Period.

 

I'm not looking for compensation, the content should be shelved as a one off opportunity. Not having it does not break the game in any way. Not playing the story mission does not adversely affect any content that comes after it. In fact, in a vast majority of the content, the companions will be locked out anyway, just like the rest of them are, no matter how many you collect. It's a pretty safe bet that given the way the story is written, this is a deliberate choice too. They knew not everyone was going to have this companion, and so, it's not relevant to anything after a certain point. Since this point falls before we don't have the companion any more, anything post is just fluff.

 

And how many people are going to rage-quit, because they have lost their exclusivity on this after so and so many years? You, probably, because that's just the kind of person you seem to be. Other than you? Probably very few to none.

[denavin]

What if you just paid for a 6 month sub?

 

No Trixxie they won't do that. They want it for Cheap, 3600 CC cheap....

Edited May 14, 2019 by denavin

[ceryxp]

No Trixxie they won't do that. They want it for Cheap, 3600 CC cheap....

 

Right, which just happens to be the amount of Cartel Coins one gets from a 6-month recurring subscription plan. It's almost like someone paid attention and applied some rational calculus to this issue. Further, if the cost is 3600 CC's one would either have to buy the $39.99 pack of 5500 Coins, or spend $32.97 to buy the 2400, 1050, and 250 Coins packs, which would leave them with 100 Coins after the purchase. This places that one chapter, which is roughly 30 mins in length and has low replay-ability (as noted in this thread by people who have it) as more expensive than either the Rise of the Hutt Cartel or Shadow of Revan expansions.

 

Also, many people have noted that they would not have a problem with BW rerunning a sub reward that required being subbed for a specific length of time.

[Sarlegant]

Costing 3600 CCs, If I cared, I could just unsub a couple months, then use that money to buy chapter 10. Nah, it’d be 2 years, like the last time I unsubbed, before I got back again, if the servers are still up.

 

It’s free or don’t bother. We need new players. Those 2 million founders are not coming back.

Good luck.

[Darev]

I don't know how you can price it so low.

10k minimum is far more appropriate.

 

There are blasters on the CM now for 5100, are you saying this content is worth less than a couple of guns?

It took 7 months of subbing to get this reward the first time and it was only available to subs.

Putting it on the CM makes it available to FTP and Preferred and it needs to be priced to reflect that massive change in status.

 

Companion x2

Story Chapter

6 Months subscription (no coins)

All for at least 10k, I am thinking 12k is about right

 

Maybe if they sub to get up to date expansions and then unsub before spending 3600 CC on a side story chapter.

 

I was going to ignore the "blasters on the CM for 5100" part, but here's my take on that.

Aren't they super rare platinum items?

 

Apparently you can equate those CM items which are meant to be rare (how many people REALLY spend that much for ANY single item off the CM?) versus story content that was meant to be an incentive to get people to have a continuous subscription?

 

I consider the chapter story and super rate cartel items to be complete separate things. Apples and Oranges doesn't begin to explain how different I feel they are.

 

They only even did that in the first place because people were posting about how they were going to unsub until the last chapter was released, pay for 1 month, then do ALL of the story.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Darev

[TrixxieTriss]

No Trixxie they won't do that. They want it for Cheap, 3600 CC cheap....

 

They could retro-actively apply it to people have already been subscribed for the last 7 months or longer.

Edited May 14, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Darev]

What if you just paid for a 6 month sub?

 

That was in my other post.

I'd be totally fine with them just making it a normal "reward" for anyone who doesn't have it, in perpetuity, for either buying a 6 month sub up front, or subbing for 6 months in general.

 

I just hadn't addressed the "how much CC would be acceptable" question floating around.

 

Now I have.

[JediMasterAlex]

What's not clear about "If you want this, you must be subbed from x to y and complete x chapters" going to "Well, if you do z you can have it, regardless of what we stated previously". How is that not violating the terms of the initial promotion, since it's literally violating the terms of the original promotion to re-release the content?

 

That is just your erroneous interpretation of the original promotion. Dasty has pointed out in both threads exactly why you are wrong. They never promised that it would remain exclusive forever. If they re-release it, they are not violating the terms of the original promotion. All of that is in your own head based on your particular interpretation, which happens to be wrong. The plain language of the promotion does not support your argument, nor do their statements on the stream. All both did was establish that "this is the only current way of earning this content." Period. You read perpetual exclusivity into the promotion when it was never there.

 

Some of your categories potentially overlap or can be interpreted differently, but this is closest to my vote. And I don't mind tossing those who originally qualified for it a bone as well. I suggested 1000 CC; Cerexyp suggested 4000; JediMasterAlex suggested an achievement (SCROOGE!) !

 

Dasty

 

To be clear, I wouldn't mind if they gave original owners more. It really doesn't affect me. I just think something like an achievement identifying that they are original owners is really all Bioware has to do (maybe just a flair or title would serve that same purpose). Anything more is just Bioware being generous to loyal customers, which they can chose to be if they want to.

Edited May 14, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[OlBuzzard]

They could retro-actively apply it to people have already been subscribed for the last 7 months or longer.

 

YUP !

To keep this very simple: What were the requirements the first time: Subscriptions ... right? For "X" amount of months... Then for those who are currently or in the last number ("X") months (to be determined by BW ) the same offer coould and perhaps "should" be made.

 

Keep it simple. Nothing complicated about it. No need to go off on a dozen tangents.. Just really simple.

 

For those of us who have been around longer... That's up to the folks who run the game. They are the ones who GIVE us stuff to begin with. That matter is being covered in another thread.

 

Again ... just keep it simple. Makes things a lot easier that way!

[Jadescythe]

That is just your erroneous interpretation of the original promotion. Dasty has pointed out in both threads exactly why you are wrong. They never promised that it would remain exclusive forever. If they re-release it, they are not violating the terms of the original promotion. All of that is in your own head based on your particular interpretation, which happens to be wrong. The plain language of the promotion does not support your argument, nor do their statements on the stream. All both did was establish that "this is the only current way of earning this content." Period. You read perpetual exclusivity into the agreement when it was never there.

 

They went out of their way to tell people how this was a special reward for the most loyal subscribers. Best case scenario, they were intentionally misleading players into believing their loyalty was being rewarded. They were releasing all kinds of sub rewards specifically as "early access", and yet, this one chapter had no mention of early access. You can make the legal argument that it's their right to make whatever changes they deem necessary, but that doesn't make it right to do or change how they portrayed this reward to players in the past.

 

And no matter how many times you add words that aren't in the video, such as "current way", it doesn't change what they actually said. Ben literally said no one could play the chapter who didn't qualify for the promotion. No one means no one unless you also state an exception. That isn't an ambiguous statement and if someone who didn't qualify for the promotion can play the chapter then it is in direct opposition to that statement. They certainly could have phrased it in a number of other ways to let players know that this was not going to be a limited, one-time release, but they opted not to.

[robertthebard]

And how many people are going to rage-quit, because they have lost their exclusivity on this after so and so many years? You, probably, because that's just the kind of person you seem to be. Other than you? Probably very few to none.

 

How many may rage quit over being lied to yet again? I love that character assassination attempt though, what kind of person am I, then? One that believes if you say you're doing x, then that's what you should do? It's amazing that this is held up as somehow derogatory in a "we need BW to have lied to us so we can get content we didn't meet the requirements for" thread, aka "Participation Trophy".

 

Before anyone gets all worked up, isn't this the exact concept? "But I played the chapters where this character was introduced, I'm entitled to see all of the content"? From reading this thread, I've noticed that I'm going to be missing a couple of new companions that were introduced while I was gone. Guess what, if they're not available through just playing the parts of the game where they figure in, I won't have them, and frankly, I really won't miss them. I don't have them now, and I can't use all the companions I have for anything, so two more that will just be portraits in my roster aren't going to break anything. Isn't it amazing how this is suddenly an issue if one thinks they can get it on the cheap?

 

"But nobody's asking for it on the cheap". Really, one proposal is to make it part of a 6 month sub package. That's actually 15 bucks cheaper than what I paid. Any suggestion that it should be comparably priced is met with what? "Oh, that's too expensive for a chapter and a couple of companions". So the whole thread comes down to "We want it, but we're not suckers, so we want to assign what value we think it has". The only value it has to me is that whether I was playing or not, my sub stayed active for 7 months to get the reward the promo offered. "But you got all these other benefits" is moot, because anyone going forward that is required to maintain a 7 month sub period will also get those benefits.

 

So, are you willing to pay a 7 month sub to get this content? If the answer is yes, good luck convincing anyone that believes like I do that lying to players is a good idea. If no, then why are we having this discussion again? To justify getting something that someone wasn't qualified to get, in the most advantageous method possible for them, regardless of what that says to the people that did meet those requirements.

[robertthebard]

They could retro-actively apply it to people have already been subscribed for the last 7 months or longer.

 

No. IF they're going to do this, it needs to be 7 months from when they announce a start date. Promotions have a start date, and an end date, and there wasn't any retroactivity with the original promotion, and as much as I am against it, if they're going to do this, then there needs to be no retroactivity on the next promotion. Make them pay the same way everyone that got it paid, and see how many suddenly decide this isn't as big a deal as they're making it out to be.

[robertthebard]

Maybe if they sub to get up to date expansions and then unsub before spending 3600 CC on a side story chapter.

 

I was going to ignore the "blasters on the CM for 5100" part, but here's my take on that.

Aren't they super rare platinum items?

 

Apparently you can equate those CM items which are meant to be rare (how many people REALLY spend that much for ANY single item off the CM?) versus story content that was meant to be an incentive to get people to have a continuous subscription?

 

I consider the chapter story and super rate cartel items to be complete separate things. Apples and Oranges doesn't begin to explain how different I feel they are.

 

They only even did that in the first place because people were posting about how they were going to unsub until the last chapter was released, pay for 1 month, then do ALL of the story.

 

Hmm, interesting take: 2 rare blasters to 2 rare companions. Seems to balance out to me, but wait, there's more: Those two rare companions also come with some story content. Why isn't that worth more than 2 rare blasters again?