Let us kill Lana Beniko

[Inspirals]

That bloke is Troy Baker and he's a quite famous.

 

Oh, is he? Sorry, I hadn't heard of him. But anyway, as OldVengeance said, I can't imagine voice actors are all that expensive, I just assumed if they had a busy TV schedule as well as the voice work, they might cost a bit more.

[Kataret]

They already have to pay eight voice actors to do the Player Character's dialogue alone. I'd have thought the real problem was coding different outcomes into the gameplay.

 

Actually 16, considering each class has two genders.

 

I don't think they would have added such a massive change as Koth abandoning the Alliance to their original plan in the short time between Kotfe's initial release and Anarchy In Paradise's release. I'm fairly sure that Koth possibly leaving was always the intention.

 

You're probably right, but I think the "companions dying to player feedback" is still valid. There was large demand for blood ever since base game, where controversial companions (Kaliyo, Quinn, Skadge) were invulnerable. Fallen Empire was designed to be a new direction in storyline mechanics where the player and their companions and the galaxy were a whole lot more variable to player choices.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Actually 16, considering each class has two genders.

 

48, actually. They have to record the dialogue with three different sets of voiceover actors because there are English, French and German versions of the game. Every character in the game = 3 voiceover artists to pay.

 

SAG-AFTRA scale is $825.50/four hours of recording and up to four voices (and lest anyone thinks that is a lot, it's way less than voiceovers for other types of media, it's intermittent work, AND there's a lot of strain put on the actors. One of the issues in the strike that ended was that voiceover artists were ending up with damaged vocal cords from being asked to scream for sustained periods of time).

 

There are a number of actors who voice characters in SWTOR who are fairly prolific and well respected as video game VAs, like Lydia Leonard, Jennifer Hale and Troy Baker so they may be getting well above scale.

 

But. At the very minimum, $825.50 x 48 for the PCs. About $2500 per character that is included ($825.50 x 3). It does add up so if they are trying to cut corners, not bringing in all the characters is a way to do that.

Edited January 12, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[TheAresian]

If memory serves, the ability to kill companions existed back in the beta. I'm assuming there was a reason they changed their minds and took it away. As far as killing Lana goes, I've been an advocate of that for quite some time. It won't happen because one of the writers has decided that we're the supporting cast in the Lana Beniko Show. I do think it would be an option if the budget was big enough that they could have continued to do class stories, but there comes a point where so many different possible story branches fails to pass the test of cost/benefit. Fortunately there is plenty of pre-Lana content that is still fun to play.

[SithKoriandr]

Because the writer's say she is my character's friend. My character is not allowed to choose her own friends. She saved my character multiple times because the writer's have no one else to do it because everyone else is killable; it's Lana by necessity.

 

The Outlander is about to die, lets have Theron rescue them and - we can't because he could be dead.

Right then, we'll use Kaliyo, give Firebrand something to do that isn't just blowing things up - Uh, no, she could be dead.

OK, well what about - Sir, almost everyone but Lana could be dead.

We haven't used Koth in a while, perhaps we can bring the player around to him if - probably dead.

Jorgan? Havoc Squad infiltrating the - can be dead.

Fine. Well, who is alive for everyone? Lana.

Lana saves the Outlander.

 

But look at what Lana has done for you, saved your life so many times!!!

 

Writers said the same thing about all your other companions too. They're your friend. That's why at the end of the class stories they're all "We'll follow you anywhere."

 

Your character does choose their friends, you're just wrong in assuming you the player get as much freedom to control your character as you think you do.

 

All this "Man, my character wouldn't..." yet where is the "Man, no one would actually follow my psychopath dark side 5 character, make them all leave me."

 

How many Dark Side V characters didn't stay true and let Vette free, while easily killing all others who get lippy with them and would easily enslave them.

[Celise]

Headcanon wise?

 

my DS IA would sooner have every force user exterminated if he could get away with it, so killing Lana at the first opportunity is a dream of his. He might like Lana for her dark side behavior, might even get turned on by it, but he is disconnected from that aspect as soon as the opportunity presents itself to have her murdered.

 

Instead he has to settle for essentially planting a half truth in the true alligence business, his alligence is to the empire yes, but not to the sith. so it isn't too far outside his wheelhouse when it comes to giving away information to Lana that he only told half a truth and sold Lana on it. A good spy knows "all the tricks of the trade" and to "trust no one".

 

Even in his relationship with his wife Kaliyo and her treacherous nature? He doesn't trust her one bit and expects betrayal at a moments notice but he stays with her because it keeps him from getting sloppy in the spy business, not that Lana had much to do with his ever vigilant and sociopathic qualities.

 

 

My DS SI has little tolerance for screw ups but he has been known to give the occasional chance to the right person for showing personal strength despite the odds stacked against them of surviving the encounter. He allowed Koth to survive because he showed strength in stealing the Gravestone, planting the quantum bomb and showing his face along with the arrogance of believing he can be useful.

 

Lana has proven to be resourceful and indepentent and despite the few screw ups in the past, so far Lana has kept on top of her duties for the most part. So my DS SI has little concern from hiding his motivations to return home, more so now he knows that Lana is blackballed in the empire, to him it would be thrilling watching the reactions of others with Lana returning home. He would never pass up such an opportunity for such displays of explosive hatred and a great show either, more so if he helps stoke that fire and watching others react poorly. A great source of negative emotions to feed off others.

 

 

My LS Smuggler is glad to have Lana watching his back, she has proven herself very capable, she saved not only his life, but provided a greatly needed ally in uncertain times. So if Lana went with him into the republic, he will do everything in his power to protect her from the more fanatical elements. If Lana is okay with it, so is the Smuggler.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Celise

[RickShan]

So she ends up in Schrodinger land like much loved LI companions like Vette and get no new content and voice lines? No thanks...

 

You don't like her that's your business, but forcing the haters choice on others, that's a big no!.... I really hope they never again make an LI companion a kill choice, male or female...

[Xenipher]

Writers said the same thing about all your other companions too. They're your friend. That's why at the end of the class stories they're all "We'll follow you anywhere."

 

Your character does choose their friends, you're just wrong in assuming you the player get as much freedom to control your character as you think you do.

All this "Man, my character wouldn't..." yet where is the "Man, no one would actually follow my psychopath dark side 5 character, make them all leave me."

 

How many Dark Side V characters didn't stay true and let Vette free, while easily killing all others who get lippy with them and would easily enslave them.

Isn't that the truth. I think for me though the difference is that with Lana, is like I said earlier, it's cumulative. Lana has been a constant since the end of the class stories for years and if feels like she's in everything and everywhere all of the time and I just can't get away from her. My feelings < reality though, I get that, but over saturation of one character makes me fatigued on that character. I'd feel the same if it was my character's LI; I don't want to interact with a companion constantly for every little thing, it get's tiring and they wear out their welcome. But back to Lana, I have to take her on several missions, even if she doesn't really add relevance to the mission, she's still a necessity or the missions won't load. I feel like she's the only companion my character is interacting with intimately, sharing secrets and feelings on things. I had the same fatigue with Liara T'soni in ME3 and I've always adored her character, but it was too much for my Shep to wake and always have her there.

 

With the vanilla crew there was a finite amount of time I was forced to spend with them. Any mission where I had to have them along were their personal mission that I could opt out of, which negated the feeling of having a companion forced on me a lot, because well, I had a choice.

 

For example, I could completely ignore Vette after getting my ship. I could ignore Pierce after getting him on my ship. Quinn is the only companion I couldn't completely ignore after getting him due to the Quinncident, but after that I could go back to ignoring him if I wanted. There were the crew gatherings to discuss things but all were there and my character wasn't forced on romantic walks with any of them or spilling their secrets to them. In fact if they asked, I could tell them to mind their own business.

 

I don't mind if Lana still has a role, that's fine. I don't want her gone or dead. Her fans should not be shafted out of content. I'd just like the option to ignore her and take whomever I pleased on missions again. That's not a Lana complaint though. I don't like being forced to take N companion on the mission unless it's their personal mission or they are relevant to that story mission. Like for example the Nathema Conspiracy, Lana was definitely relevant there.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Xenipher

[Lunafox]

 

You don't like her that's your business, but forcing the haters choice on others, that's a big no!.... I really hope they never again make an LI companion a kill choice, male or female...

 

 

Where were you when haters were screaming for Quinn to be killed off? The haters and the writers did exactly that, they forced his death onto his fans and those who enjoyed his presence. They didn't care about us, or what we liked or wanted.

 

They killed him, and then they killed many others. If all that will be left is Lana, I have no interest in playing a game like that. They can take Lana and shove her where the sun doesn't shine. Had they spared the others, they could've spared her too, but if they're all gone, then those that don't want her should get the same option to be rid of her. Fair is fair. I would've rather they not kill any LI companion, but that ship has sailed.

[Xenipher]

You don't like her that's your business, but forcing the haters choice on others, that's a big no!.... I really hope they never again make an LI companion a kill choice, male or female...

The hater's choice was forced on the rest of us, Xen said bitterly.

 

I agree they should never again kill off LI companions.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Xenipher

[Goreshaga]

You don't like her that's your business, but forcing the haters choice on others, that's a big no!.... I really hope they never again make an LI companion a kill choice, male or female...

As said above, that haters choice was forced on many people with their favourite companions leaving everyone with only 1 relevant companion.

They should never have given any kill option on any LI in the first place, but it's far too late for that now...

And 'im honnestly not interested in playing a story where i can never interact with the characters I actually like the most anymore.

I'm not interested in romantic sunset walks in the woods with Lana either.

I'd not be interested in romantic walks with Theron on any character who is not my JK either for that matter, or with Aric on any character who is not my trooper and so on.

 

I don't want to kill her, i don't want to kick her out either, but i really don't want to be in awkard and uncomfortable situations with her either like her being alone in a room where my character is sleeping or have a romantic like walk with her while she's not their LI (i'd feel the same way for any other companion in the same circumstances, but Lana is quite the only one to be placed in that kind of situations).

Hm thinking about that i did not really like Jonas flirting with my JK while not being able to tell him she was already taken without being rude (but unfortunately, that is a recurring issue with any NPC flirting with our PC)

[Atma]

Sounds some of you would have more fun writing fan fiction instead of playing the game. There's only so much freedom that's possible to implement.

[Lunafox]

Sounds some of you would have more fun writing fan fiction instead of playing the game. There's only so much freedom that's possible to implement.

 

I did have more fun writing fanfiction for it, so much so, I did it for six bloody years to stave off the lack of decent stories and companion relationships.

[MSpectre]

Yeah, she is overused.

 

If I had my way I'd allow for a companion of your choice to fill her role, in my case Jaesa.

 

OR, at the very least to give Lana a skin that looks just like one of our preferred NPCs while still being able to add armor for aesthetics. Communication can be done via text unless they care to pony up the money.

 

Long story short, we are EAed.(fooked)

[AscendingSky]

Where were you when haters were screaming for Quinn to be killed off? The haters and the writers did exactly that, they forced his death onto his fans and those who enjoyed his presence. They didn't care about us, or what we liked or wanted.

 

They killed him, and then they killed many others. If all that will be left is Lana, I have no interest in playing a game like that. They can take Lana and shove her where the sun doesn't shine. Had they spared the others, they could've spared her too, but if they're all gone, then those that don't want her should get the same option to be rid of her. Fair is fair. I would've rather they not kill any LI companion, but that ship has sailed.

 

Agreed. Fair is indeed fair. I also wish Charles Boyd had never acted on his stated desires to turn SWTOR into Game of Thrones, but that's what we're left with. The devs and the writers decided to make companions killable; no players FORCED them to do it. Now the only way to balance the pans is to give everyone a kill/dismiss option within the story. Doing so will mean either EA has to start recording and coding at least a few different alternate conversation paths to account for who each protagonist still has in their Alliance, or they'd have to put all existing companions on the backburner and come up with a new plot exposition source--which would admittedly suck but at least it would suck equally for everyone. It's not a good option, but it's the lesser of two evils.

Edited January 13, 2019 by AscendingSky

[denavin]

Simply....

NO!

[OldVengeance]

I really don't think Quinn would be around more if wasn't killable on Iokath. Because the very premise of his return meant that most players who chose the Republic would reject him by default. It's not just about whether you can kill him, it's about whether they are a necessary part of your Alliance or story. I can pretty much guarantee that making Quinn mandatory for all Outlanders would have gone over poorly.

 

Elara was in basically the same exact position as him, except is unkillable, and she has appeared exactly as much as he has since War for Iokath.

Edited January 13, 2019 by OldVengeance

[IoNonSoEVero]

Well, I hope those who are screaming so loudly for a kill option in the name of making things "fair" will feel just as good about that "fairness" when other players start campaigning just as hard for kill options for Scourge, Jonas, Quinn (after all, anyone who sided Imperial can't kill him unless they're a Sith Warrior, so he's still hanging on like a barnacle for the other classes), as well as any new LIs that appear. After all, if their old LI is dead everyone's LI should also be dead and out of the game, and we can apply that to the characters they want to see as LIs in the future too, right?

 

And I hope they'll feel happy with their unending desire to spread misery to every player in this game with their "fair" kill options when they are forced to complete every new quest with an endless parade of new NPCs and never get anything from any LIs again, because Bioware has finally decided that the complaints are too much and they're not going to bother anymore.

 

ETA: I don't actually want anyone to die. Enough companions and LIs have bitten the dust. But I do think that if people keep screaming for kill options, Bioware will continue them - and eventually it will come back to bite those who want to get rid of Lana, because it will affect another character they'd like to keep around.

Edited January 13, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[Rebamcfan]

Please no, don't kill any companions anymore. It's their interactions and comments to our characters that have made this game to be so good. Or their stories that tell us how they've become who they are. Like Quinn being indebted to Baras after he saved his career after Battle of Druckenwell, being pulled down by a jealous Moff.

I personally Love Lana as person, but I can see why she grinds gears with others. I do hope that they would give other companions more interactions in future again, but alas, we shall see.

[aerockyul]

If memory serves, the ability to kill companions existed back in the beta. I'm assuming there was a reason they changed their minds and took it away. As far as killing Lana goes, I've been an advocate of that for quite some time. It won't happen because one of the writers has decided that we're the supporting cast in the Lana Beniko Show. I do think it would be an option if the budget was big enough that they could have continued to do class stories, but there comes a point where so many different possible story branches fails to pass the test of cost/benefit. Fortunately there is plenty of pre-Lana content that is still fun to play.

 

Companions used to be role-locked, and Quinn was the healer for SW. So people who made the choice to kill him suddenly didn't have a healer and they complained that they made the choice to kill their healer and wanted him back, like a child that kills their goldfish and then cries because they no longer have a goldfish.

 

Instead of being smart about it and just making someone else healer or, you know, making people learn how to play without crutches the whole game, they just let that whole scene stay without a justifiable kill option and it festered for five years. In all that time everyone who romanced or cared about him, and even people who hated and wanted him dead, were forced to head canon reasons for him to still be alive, even with the mind-boggling idiocy of thinking most DS Sith would allow him to set foot outside of that room in a breathing capacity. Five years of that, and then suddenly, in game-years, what, 7 or more years after the fact, they finally let people kill him, and this "bricked" him for not only them, but for the people who still wanted him around.

 

Same for Kaliyo and Skadge, who did things that most people would not and did not forgive, but they only let you act on it over half a decade later after non-sensical actions (Hey, Kaliyo, let's do this stupid anarchy mission and I'll also send you on one of the most important missions in KOTFE. Then I'm going to kill you for selling me out 6 years ago). They threw Jorgan in there because people didn't like his attitude despite the fact that he really does nothing to deserve death like the previous three, but the bloodlust for him was loud enough that they let him become a casualty as well (his fate is sort of like Koth's--they didn't really deserve it but enough people cried for their heads that they were given to them. I specifically remember several months of people howling in gen chat BEFORE CHAPTER 10 how much they hated Koth and wanted him dead for several nonsensical reasons).

 

I've mentioned before that I remember the most frequent and loudest calls for death before KOTFE started were for Quinn, Kaliyo, Skadge, Broonmark, Xalek, and Jorgan--all were given kill options, and four of the six of those are pretty nonsensical and petty by the time the option is given (Skadge is borderline). Five of the six would have been better served to be killed in vanilla rather than waiting so long.

 

Those were all examples of the writers giving in to players' demands when they should have allowed them to be killed in vanilla, and they acted way too late to grant that option and started pissing off the people who didn't hate them by laying the groundwork for the current rule of thumb of "dead for some=dead for all." It does suck that those few beta players that were crying about their decision to kill Quinn has basically ruined it for the rest of us down the line.

 

To add insult to injury, AscendingSky is right that the desire to become like Game of Thrones has fueled a lot of this and the two dumbest plot-murders in the whole game came about from this desire--bricking companions no one in the world (except, maybe, one person) wanted dead. This new phenomena coupled with the edgier cries for irrational death has led to Theron's death as well. They poorly-present his betrayal KNOWING how much it would piss off people who can't understand or read visual cues that it's all a ploy, and then give in to the desire to kill him for it anyway, and then character-assassinate Lana for making her look hypocritical and incompetent for her reactions to it when she is not that stupid.

 

So now we get to live in a galaxy where companions can be taken away from us because a whiny edgelord demanded it, a pissed-off wife/husband of a now-killable companion demanded it (out of fairnesslol), or a writer wants to put his stamp on his resume that he's sending to HBO that he's just as edgy as GRRM.

Most people pushing back against all companion deaths never wanted any of this and yet we get branded the bad guys because one of the last remaining companions hasn't (yet) been given the axe by one of the three sorts of people above, despite the best efforts of the first two sorts.

 

I'm tired of such a huge part of the game being ruined by other people like that. If they would just improve the situation by giving screentime back to the "killed" companions and letting dead for some=alive for some, these threads would finally go away.

 

That was a bit longer then I intended it to be but I'm so sick of all this that I'm just gonna make this my last post in the Lana-kill / patronizing-Lana-exile threads. I hope you all get your wish and we're given both all of our missions and all NPC interactions from a static text-only black background monitor and you can play this game like an empty, lifeless, space-flight simulator. That's certainly what I signed up for in a game with beautiful cutscenes and deep NPCs and companions!

Edited January 13, 2019 by aerockyul

[krakadyla]

I really don't think Quinn would be around more if wasn't killable on Iokath.

 

This. People are hilariously overestimating the impact opinions of "edgelords" (or whatever pejorative for "someone who likes different things than me") have on the dev team. They don't do improv writing, so when they brought Quinn back they knew he won't have content anymore, then why not toss a bone to people who wanted to off him for that betrayal? Same with Kaliyo, Jorgan, Theron etc. -- no more plans in the story for them, so why not use their deaths for some drama?

 

Also these threads would be so much better if people just were honest and admitted they're bitter because their precious space husbando was voided and now they're being spiteful and want this or that dead too because misery loves company. Come on, don't be afraid to own your meanness. It's only human.

[SithKoriandr]

This. People are hilariously overestimating the impact opinions of "edgelords" (or whatever pejorative for "someone who likes different things than me") have on the dev team. They don't do improv writing, so when they brought Quinn back they knew he won't have content anymore, then why not toss a bone to people who wanted to off him for that betrayal? Same with Kaliyo, Jorgan, Theron etc. -- no more plans in the story for them, so why not use their deaths for some drama?

 

Also these threads would be so much better if people just were honest and admitted they're bitter because their precious space husbando was voided and now they're being spiteful and want this or that dead too because misery loves company. Come on, don't be afraid to own your meanness. It's only human.

 

Then they, the devs, should've said as much. "We're not going to give this character anymore scenes, so here's a kill option."

[Paulsutherland]

Actually 16, considering each class has two genders.

 

Wouldn't it be 48 with the other two languages?

[OldVengeance]

Then they, the devs, should've said as much. "We're not going to give this character anymore scenes, so here's a kill option."

 

Well again, Charles has flat out stated that characters' lack of screentime isn't a result of being potential dead in some stories. It seems most people here either don'rt believe him or don't know that.

[AureliaSulis]

On all my characters I've not chosen to kill any companions or love interests. The only one I was forced to kill was Torian, only because my Sith Warrior was given no other choice, and as a level-V light aligned character, it sat ill with her that she was forced to do it or cast Vette to the wolves. Vette was part of her original crew, so it came down to having to choose to let one of the two die - someone who for years had been a true friend for my warrior, or a new friend who had proven his worth and loyalty to her. If I had been the story teller, neither of them would have died.

 

I am also annoyed about the fact that Lana was there to wake my warrior out of carbonite. If she had been half the spy she claimed to be she would have known that my warrior's husband Quinn was incarcerated in an Imperial prison, got him out, and ensured that he was part of the rescue team. The fact that Quinn languished in an imperial prison for so long with neither Theran or Lana knowing about it is ridiculous and a plot hole that should have been identified at the structural editing stage. I maintain that at least one original crew member should have been part of the rescue team.

 

So now, all the companions that my characters cared about are either bricked or completely awol. Their stories have ended sooner than expected and I cannot progress their stories any further in the game. It is like I wrote a novel, submitted it to the editor, who then tore out all of my end-story pages, and then rewrote completely different endings, without consulting me.

 

I am just one storyteller in this game, everyone else has their own stories, and most of those stories have been edited and rewritten by BioWare without consultation and with the subtly of a sledgehammer. The only ones who seem pleased about 5.10 are those who have Lana as their love interest.

 

To say I am unimpressed is putting it mildly.