Please remove premades from reg pvp

[kissingaiur]

I personally like debating . I am enthusiastic and invested.

 

Used quite an effort in arguing for a level playing field to the benefit of all - that seems like a reasonable approach. And as mentioned in a reply to one of your posts, it seems like we have vastly different experiences with "normal" Warzones.

 

Maybe even referring to it as "normal" Warzones is flawed. Maybe PvP Warzones can never be truly "Casual" as it erodes the purpose of their existence in the first place.

 

I clarified my thoughts on this more broader concept in a post on page 3 @ So what's the "design philosophy" behind SWTOR's PvP?

 

But anyhow good day.

 

You are basically trying to tell me that little league is the same thing as playing professional baseball.

 

Yes both are “competitive” to a degree but in little league anyone can join, no matter their qualifitions, winning and losing doesn’t matter and the result is meaningless. The other has qualifications to join, reward for winning based on performance, rating system and leaderboard. There is actual structure based on performance therefore it has meaning.

 

Regs has really no competitive structure. You can be the best player in the world, get 5 newbies on your team and lose. There is no control over this so the level of competitive is pretty much irrelevant. It’s always going to be softcore for this reason even if premades didn’t exist.

 

You are always welcome to find softcore content competitive, doesn’t mean it by any means, is. The reality to this is showing your World Cup trophy has more meaning when it comes to competition than a little league one, regardless of your personal opinion.

Edited November 29, 2018 by kissingaiur

[Mannok]

Hmm.

 

I am trying to think why my points doesn't seem to get through. It is like peeling an onion.

 

I think that the main difference here is the mindset. I will try explain to the best of my ability.

 

Winning and losing is kind of secondary, I think. This is true to the highest end of G. Ranked. if you put 100% effort into a play. The way of winning (process) matter more than the actual win (product). Because mastering the process, makes you end up as the best player in the end (through Struggle). Even the final win of a season is just 1% of that years "total effort". So if you equal 2 people with: Talent, Mechanical Skill and PvP Brain the one appplying the most effort in a year -> wins. If the first guy to win then starts slacking, he loses, so who is really the best?

 

Maybe in G. Ranked the pressure is also external. But I know this amount of pressure, can be applied internally and then the only thing you need is a grain of Perfectionism. I think the Idea of G. Ranked as being the Pinnacle of PvP is quite flawed. As I played plenty of really competitive PvP games with no real ranking systems and no tournaments and people loved them. The top ~10% was quite fluid over a period of time and no one really knew who it was, but you had an intuition about it when engaged in PvP.

 

I don't know. But I think people are too caught in with the idea of Solo/Group Ranked instead of thinking: Any game with a competitive element has a fluid top 10%.

 

And in the end, does it really matter who it is?

 

 

I see PvP as a Struggle, that is way more personal, than the Product of the Process . That is my conclusion.

 

Good debate and much /respect from me

Edited November 29, 2018 by Mannok

[kissingaiur]

Hmm.

 

I am trying to think why my point doesn't seem to get through. It is like peeling an onion .

 

I think that the main difference here is the mindset. I will try explain to the best of my ability.

 

Winning and losing is kind of secondary, I think. This is true to the highest end of G. Ranked. if you put 100% effort into a play. The way of winning (process) matter more than the actual win (product). Because mastering the process, makes you end up as the best player in the end (through Struggle). Even the final win of a season is just 1% of that years "total effort". So if you equal 2 people with: Talent, Mechanical Skill and PvP Brain the one appplying the most effort in a year -> wins. If the first guy to win then starts slacking, he loses, so who is really the best?

 

Maybe in G. Ranked the pressure is also external. But I know this amount of pressure, can be applied internally and then the only thing you need is a grain of Perfectionism. I think the Idea of G. Ranked as being the Pinnacle of PvP is quite flawed. As I played plenty of really competitive PvP games with no real ranking systems and no tournaments and people loved them. The top ~10% was quite fluid over a period of time and no one really knew who it was, but you had an intuition about it when engaged in PvP.

 

I don't know. But I think people are too caught in with the idea of Solo/Group Ranked instead of thinking: Any game with a competitive element has a fluid top 10%.

 

And in the end, does it really matter who it is?

 

I see PvP as a Struggle, that is way more personal, than the Product of the Process that is my conclusion.

 

 

Good debate and much /respect from me

 

Little league participation trophy =/= World Cup trophy.

 

People go regs with literally all different mindsets: to win, to have fun, to learn a new class, to play with a friend, to rp as Luke, to play strictly obj, to play strictly to kill people etc etc. Anyone can join and everyone can play. That is why it shouldn’t be viewed in the same matter as ranked. You will always be in the lottery of people who don’t want to play to win or people who just are *********** around even if you on the other hand are not.

 

You can call it whatever you want to and view it in whatever lens you want, in whatever reality you see fit BUT it doesn’t make the game mode any more competitive than a mode with a leaderboard.

 

Why do you think premades are such a problem in this game? It’s because the lowest common denominator are also in the queue. Premades slaughter these newbies who are in there to learn the game like cattle. The average level in regs is absurdly low, that if you have a gasp of a rotation and know what your dcds are you are above average. This is not competition, playing with people who have 0 understanding of the game is not competitive. It just isn’t.

 

People need to stop living under the illusion that regs now a days are on par with ranked 8v8s. And let me tell you that guy who is just playing pvp to rp as Luke and autoattack enemies would have not existed in ranked 8s and if he did he would not have a good time.

Edited November 29, 2018 by kissingaiur

[Seterade]

Little league participation trophy =/= World Cup trophy.

 

People go regs with literally all different mindsets: to win, to have fun, to learn a new class, to play with a friend, to rp as Luke, to play strictly obj, to play strictly to kill people etc etc. Anyone can join and everyone can play. That is why it shouldn’t be viewed in the same matter as ranked. You will always be in the lottery of people who don’t want to play to win or people who just are *********** around even if you on the other hand are not.

 

You can call it whatever you want to and view it in whatever lens you want, in whatever reality you see fit BUT it doesn’t make the game mode any more competitive than a mode with a leaderboard.

 

Why do you think premades are such a problem in this game? It’s because the lowest common denominator are also in the queue. Premades slaughter these newbies who are in there to learn the game like cattle. The average level in regs is absurdly low, that if you have a gasp of a rotation and know what your dcds are you are above average. This is not competition, playing with people who have 0 understanding of the game is not competitive. It just isn’t.

 

People need to stop living under the illusion that regs now a days are on par with ranked 8v8s. And let me tell you that guy who is just playing pvp to rp as Luke and autoattack enemies would have not existed in ranked 8s and if he did he would not have a good time.

 

all serious pvpers knew this was going to happen to end game regs when 4.0 launched 60 tokens, and we were never proven wrong. end game regs are lowbies with more antifocus dcds.

[Bullyabass]

stuff

 

If you're opining that this is just a backwater mmo where people pointlessly pixelate themselves as deliciously shameless sith or tiresomely judgmental jedi then, ouch, unnecessary truth bomb delivered on target. You may now recline your posture perfect chair, sip your lemon chai tea and smirk in satisfaction at the blossoming dust cloud of pulverized innocence that you have begat.

 

But it's not REALLY your right to drone in on how invested folk should be in any given pastime. People can get tangled up in some seriously weird stuff. Derping about in SWTOR doesn't even quiver the needle on the krazy scale and has been officially registered as HARMLESS. Isn't there a more evil parade for you to rain upon?

 

If you're saying that one particular part of the game (warzones) is for LOLZ and another (arena) is SERIOUS then you are supping your covfefe from the left side of the ramekin whilst snorting with derision at those who prefer to dip on the right.

 

This would mark you as being among the unwise.

[kissingaiur]

If you're opining that this is just a backwater mmo where people pointlessly pixelate themselves as deliciously shameless sith or tiresomely judgmental jedi then, ouch, unnecessary truth bomb delivered on target. You may now recline your posture perfect chair, sip your lemon chai tea and smirk in satisfaction at the blossoming dust cloud of pulverized innocence that you have begat.

 

But it's not REALLY your right to drone in on how invested folk should be in any given pastime. People can get tangled up in some seriously weird stuff. Derping about in SWTOR doesn't even quiver the needle on the krazy scale and has been officially registered as HARMLESS. Isn't there a more evil parade for you to rain upon?

 

If you're saying that one particular part of the game (warzones) is for LOLZ and another (arena) is SERIOUS then you are supping your covfefe from the left side of the ramekin whilst snorting with derision at those who prefer to dip on the right.

 

This would mark you as being among the unwise.

 

You will be worthy of an actual reply when you post an actual argument instead of gibberish.

Edited November 29, 2018 by kissingaiur

[Bullyabass]

You will be worthy of an actual reply when you post an actual argument instead of gibberish.

 

Why would I want your reply?

[rambolnet]

If you're opining that this is just a backwater mmo where people pointlessly pixelate themselves as deliciously shameless sith or tiresomely judgmental jedi then, ouch, unnecessary truth bomb delivered on target. You may now recline your posture perfect chair, sip your lemon chai tea and smirk in satisfaction at the blossoming dust cloud of pulverized innocence that you have begat.

 

But it's not REALLY your right to drone in on how invested folk should be in any given pastime. People can get tangled up in some seriously weird stuff. Derping about in SWTOR doesn't even quiver the needle on the krazy scale and has been officially registered as HARMLESS. Isn't there a more evil parade for you to rain upon?

 

If you're saying that one particular part of the game (warzones) is for LOLZ and another (arena) is SERIOUS then you are supping your covfefe from the left side of the ramekin whilst snorting with derision at those who prefer to dip on the right.

 

This would mark you as being among the unwise.

She's not making judgements, but pointing out facts: people of very different skills levels, with all sorts of interests and motivations, will queue for PvP. RP PvP servers are no more and the population is too small to separate players by skill. This can't be helped but I don't think it's fun for anybody (as evidenced by the complaints in this thread).

 

Ranked arenas are inherently more competitive than unranked warzones. I don't think anyone can seriously argue against that. It's an objective fact, not a personal attack against people who don't queue for ranked PvP.

[Bullyabass]

She's not making judgements, but pointing out facts: people of very different skills levels, with all sorts of interests and motivations, will queue for PvP. RP PvP servers are no more and the population is too small to separate players by skill. This can't be helped but I don't think it's fun for anybody (as evidenced by the complaints in this thread).

 

Ranked arenas are inherently more competitive than unranked warzones. I don't think anyone can seriously argue against that. It's an objective fact, not a personal attack against people who don't queue for ranked PvP.

 

Facts are slippery things and "Objective" is a word bauble most often used to nervously balance an intricately, convoluted construction of opinion that is teetering on the verge of collapse.

 

Competition is the gift of the participant. Most female athletes cannot outperform male athletes, most disabled athletes cannot outperform able bodied athletes. Are their sports less competitive?

 

Anyway, My People are perfectly happy for the self described MLB of PVP to play the subset of warzone gameplay that they call Arena and for premades to make themselves pre. Though I am SLIGHTLY at a loss for why Arena-istas are posting in a thread about regs when they so clearly floccinaucinihilipilificate the craft.

 

My People just want, from time to time, to prioritize quality of matches over quantity.

 

Off the back of this thread I'd personally quite like a PVP ignore function but baby steps.

[kissingaiur]

Facts are slippery things and "Objective" is a word bauble most often used to nervously balance an intricately, convoluted construction of opinion that is teetering on the verge of collapse.

 

Competition is the gift of the participant. Most female athletes cannot outperform male athletes, most disabled athletes cannot outperform able bodied athletes. Are their sports less competitive?

 

Anyway, My People are perfectly happy for the self described MLB of PVP to play the subset of warzone gameplay that they call Arena and for premades to make themselves pre. Though I am SLIGHTLY at a loss for why Arena-istas are posting in a thread about regs when they so clearly floccinaucinihilipilificate the craft.

 

My People just want, from time to time, to prioritize quality of matches over quantity.

 

Off the back of this thread I'd personally quite like a PVP ignore function but baby steps.

 

First and foremost, I have probably played more regs than everyone here combined. I am the biggest regstar here.

 

This isn’t a reg or arena ego argument, you are clearly missing the point completely. It’s understandable because clearly you didn’t read any of my posts.

 

Let me sum it up for you: My recent posts were to make the comparison of mindsets within the player bases of each game mode and clear skill disparities. Elo based game modes are endgame pvp because it breeds competition. You are more likely to be facing players who want to win and are on even footing skill wise. There isn’t as massive divide in skill. You also have a much higher influence in the games you play with your personal performance being a strong factor in winning or losing.

 

Regs mindset is completely different because it’s split. You have causals in there who range from auto attacking newbies to decently skilled players. You have Tryhards to those who are just learning how their class plays for the first time. There is such a split in actual skill of players and mindset in regs; it’s hard as a competitive player to even remotely be attached to winning in this mindfield. Honestly, ask yourself when have you honest had a fair, even, hard, competitive/challenging reg? Probably 1 in maybe 20 games? 30? That is how feel everytime I click the reg button. There are always players on both teams who are complete newbies and you know what? That is perfectly ok. I myself however do not find it competitive to slaughter these newbies for a win; it’s imbalanced and unfair therefore not competitive.

 

I am not here to bash players who strictly play one game mode or another, I am just here they point out the reality from a player who has played both game modes heavily.

Edited November 29, 2018 by kissingaiur

[Bullyabass]

I am the biggest regstar here.

 

And they say RP is a dying art

 

clearly you didn’t read any of my posts.

 

Well, they are quite ranty. If I want harangued online I can just marginally favor one of my kids over the other.

 

Actually I love your confidence. It is a precious and powerful thing and I genuinely hope you can hold it tight against the prying fingers of the jealous and careless.

 

But confidence can be strengthened by being tempered with a little humility. More regs than anyone here combined? I suspect I was pvping online before you were born. You will not understand how sad that makes me feel until, long days hence, you are saying it to someone else. Probably telepathically. And they won't care any more than you do.

 

I disagree with pretty much everything you said about warzones. That's cool. Let Me and My People not play with You and Your People and we can each do our own things and everyone is happy.

 

This has got way too involved so I'm off for a bit. GG and HF

[Seterade]

dude... I have no idea how to take your posts.. they are so many places, its like your super high, deep and dumb at the same time. it legit hurts my head

[Mannok]

A reply @ kissingaiur.

 

Since when has Ranked in SWTOR had practicing 8 hours a day (focused) as an entry level to compete and stay in the game? Properly never. So I don't see any valid claim for this being remotely more "Competitive" than playing a Warzone. None of the participants, need to practice even weekly to play or win them (certainly I don't).

 

Yes the average level in Ranked 4v4 is higher, than the average level in a random Warzone. But there are way more factors you need to take into account to play Warzones succesfully, so they are generally harder with equal skilled players.

 

So yes the 4v4 is a "Competitive Format" but the players are not playing them at a "Competitive Level of Dedication". The skill level of the average Ranked players, does not match the high end of a random warzone. The players performing best in warzones are also on par with the best Ranked, as they are the same players. So the Big League Cup or World Cup is a Local Cup in a "Niche Sport".

 

 

If "Competitive Level" has to mean anything compared to LOL, DOTA, CS:GO and Overwatch etc. then this is a completely false classification for Ranked in SWTOR. The level required to be competitive near the top levels in the above (Big League) require 8+ hours a day "Focused Practice". So if any claim is made to suggest Ranked in SWTOR are "Competitive" at these levels it is delusional. The Ranked community is maybe 200? These games have tens of thousands.

 

 

Each individual playing PvP put whatever Intent, Effort and Skill into it. No one need a self-proclaimed "high skill" thought police.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Mannok

[Totemdancer]

The problem with discussion is people approach it from three different perspectives. Some will be ranked players who enjoy competitive arena format, some will enjoy competive 8v8 and some just want to have fun and not care about winning or losing.

 

The ranked arena guys have always looked at reg 8v8 as a pond to play in with a “who cares, it’s only regs” attitude. That comes off as highly offensive and elitist.

If I can use some of the examples in this thread, that’s like a major league bass ball player coming into little league and ruining their fun and then telling them not to worry as it doesn’t mean anything.

Except it does to those little leaguers.

Just because it’s easy for ranked guys to pummel regs or they think it doesn’t matter because there is no season league or scoreboard, doesn’t mean the people in regs don’t want to win or be competitive. It’s how they learn to get better and how they develop that competitive spirit. Telling people not to take it seriously will never encourage them to get better or be competitive.

 

The competitive 8v8 guys had ranked 8v8 ripped from the game with no consultantion and replaced with 4v4. There is no outlet for good 8v8 players except regs. So they do take it seriously because they are competitive and they want to win.

Having an official scoreboard to measure the length of your “you know what” to other players isn’t really needed to be competitive. I think I speak for any competive 8v8 players when I say, we didn’t want ranked removed and would probably only play ranked 8v8 if it was an option.

 

The casual pvpers play for fun, but most use to still want to win because it’s part of playing pvp. Having ranked players say to them that it’s not important or that they shouldn’t take it seriously is part of the reason regs is so crap now. A vast majority don’t even try to win now and run in gank squads because that’s what they see the ranked guys do. This was not always the case in regs.

 

Before arena, before the dark times, regs used to be highly competitive and people would try to win. But as soon as Arena was added and 8v8 ranked removed, there became this attitude from arena players that ALL other players were crap if they didn’t play ranked arena. Which just isn’t the case.

What about all those Ranked 8v8 players who hated arena, but were more than capable of playing it? They didn’t become **** players because they chose not to play arena ranked. Lots of them just left the game because ranked arena isn’t fun for them. Those who remained are left to play regs or not pvp at all. But it doesn’t make them **** players if they don’t play 4v4 ranked.

 

Here’s the thing, just because you don’t play 4v4 ranked, doesn’t mean you aren’t competitive or don’t want to win. You can’t turn that off if you’ve no other outlet for it. That’s why there are plenty or were plenty players who do take 8v8 seriously and do want it to be competitive. I think this is something the 4v4 ranked guys don’t understand because they think only their format matters.

 

It’s too late to bring 8v8 ranked back. Too small a game population and now a complete lack of objective skill would make it pointless.

Except we wouldn’t have this problem if it had never been removed in the first place. It should have been made like 4v4 ranked works with a group and solo queue.

Then we could have had a place for people to learn and a place to progress to when you were ready. I can tell you I would never have played in regs again if there was an 8v8 ranked option like that.

 

I don’t think it’s fair that people ruin others fun because they don’t care to try and win or play the game as it should be played. I also dont think it’s fair that we have such a **** matchmaking system that puts the best players against the worst.

Can you imagine if the ranked queue worked like that? If it always put the lowest ELO group of players against the highest ELO group in every other match. The QQ and rage on this forum would be epic because “ranked is all that matters”.

So I think some people should step back from telling people in this conversation that regs don’t matter, because they do to some people and they have every right to want them to work as best they can for their own competitive enjoyment.

[rambolnet]

Divisiveness and finger-pointing get us nowhere. There are self-important idiots in every skill bracket and in every game mode. Labelling ranked players elitists is, at best, a gross overgeneralisation. At worst, it smacks of insecurity. Don’t mistake competence for arrogance.

 

Ranked players typically have a lot of warzones under their belts. The skills honed in arenas are also transferrable to warzones. Odds are that the ranked player on your team is an asset, not a liability.

 

The crux of the matter is the game’s small PvP population—it’s at the root of most complaints voiced in this thread. The fewer players in a queue, the longer the queue times and the poorer the matchmaking (i.e., the greater the skill variance of players in a typical match). This leads to frustration, boredom and toxicity.

 

Despite server merges and cross-faction matchmaking, there are still too few players to support a ranked warzone queue and team and solo ranked arena queues. There are too few players to support splitting the unranked warzone queue into solo and group queues. Suggestions along these lines are not workable. Remember that the matchmaking system already tries to account for players’ roles and hidden MMR and tries to distribute parties evenly between teams: it cannot do this if there are not enough players in the queue.

 

I appreciate that some people prefer warzones to arenas but ranked warzones were replaced by ranked arenas because too few players were queueing for them—and that was years ago, when the population was much healthier.

 

Like it or not, for many, the unranked warzone queue is analogous to quick play mode in Overwatch or other games. I try to win, yes, but I treat it as a practice mode and somewhere to have fun with my friends—and my perspective is just as valid as that of someone who treats warzones like ranked matches.

 

My honest advice is to find likeminded people to queue with and not to take warzones too seriously—and not to construe that advice as a personal attack. Organised PvP in SWTOR is a team affair, requiring communication and coordination. You are handicapping yourself if you queue solo into warzones: there are too many variables out of your control and your impact on the game is dilute.

 

Of course, solo ranked has its issues too: chief among them is poor matchmaking (owing, again, to the low population). Team ranked is the most competitive and challenging format but it also suffers from a dearth of players.

 

As an aside, Seagull, a former Overwatch pro, recently published a

and his experiences queueing solo in a 6 vs 6 competitive format. SWTOR and Overwatch are very different games, of course, but many of his points are salient to this discussion.

 

TL;DR: Poor matchmaking is a consequence of a small PvP population. Restricting unranked warzones to solo queuers wouldn’t address that.

 

So I think some people should step back from telling people in this conversation that regs don’t matter, because they do to some people and they have every right to want them to work as best they can for their own competitive enjoyment.

 

I don’t think anybody in this thread said regs don’t matter. I don’t personally begrudge people enjoying warzones. I do think it’s important to be realistic about them, however.

Edited November 30, 2018 by rambolnet

[Seterade]

what Ide like to see most is ranked elo done away with entirely and replaced with a wz rep that works for both arena and regs, then have arenas an regs 2 seperate queue game modes.

 

everyone would get "pvp" rewards as long as their rep was high enough at the rep reset

 

honestly, a seperate group queue for regs has been dead since 2.0. stop suggesting it, it didnt work when the game was popular and it certainly wont work now

Edited November 30, 2018 by Seterade

[Rafiknoll]

what Ide like to see most is ranked elo done away with entirely and replaced with a wz rep that works for both arena and regs, then have arenas an regs 2 seperate queue game modes.

 

everyone would get "pvp" rewards as long as their rep was high enough at the rep reset

 

That would be a great idea, if the community could sustain any form of ranking WITHOUT increasing toxicity and newbie-intolerance by a few hunderds. Unfortunately, the community is mostly too immature for that. [Not to mention I rather that the hackers stayed in ranked and left regs alone]

 

In addition, it will actually INCREASE the incentive to go for fully advantageous voice-coordinating odds-stacking premades in regs. People's "competitive ethics" get really blurry when a ranking is involved. Might as well just remove the solo queue option if that happens. It will probably be bad enough for casual premades. They will be stomped even worse than how pugs get stomped by them now...

[A solution for that would be to reduce the "rep" gain by 90% for premade queues, if not by more. But we can't have a multiplayer game favoring "solo" content other "group" content...]

 

honestly, a seperate group queue for regs has been dead since 2.0. stop suggesting it, it didnt work when the game was popular and it certainly wont work now

 

Who is suggesting it? Last I checked the suggestions were to either split premades or make the queue wait some more time when there is only one premade in a match rather than form the imbalanced match as is.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Rafiknoll

[Seterade]

Who is suggesting it? Last I checked the suggestions were to either split premades or make the queue wait some more time when there is only one premade in a match rather than form the imbalanced match as is.

 

uh. its the OP. "remove premades from reg queue"

[Seterade]

what Ide like to see most is ranked elo done away with entirely and replaced with a wz rep that works for both arena and regs, then have arenas an regs 2 seperate queue game modes.

 

 

the point here, and how it would work better, iis it doesnt matter if you win or lose, it only matters how much you play. it also gives the chance for pvp items to be awarded to reg players, just because 8v8 ranked died long ago doesnt mean objective players shouldnt get anything. pvp comes in all forms, pvp does not stand for "pking"/playerkilling. why should you get nothing in swtor when you are an objective regstar, why is it meaningless. if you can answer this question then you are a stepp closer to understanding why in 2018 objectives matter to at best, 10% of consistent pvp queuers.

 

the elo system is the root of the toxcity, and its tied to the rewards. if you win 10 matchs, you are elo (example) 1600. then you lose 1 match, and due to how elo works you lose 20 elo. but if you have 1200 elo you lose 8 elo. and you only get rewards if you get 1800 elo

 

now consider if you play 10 matchs, and now rep "warleader rank3" you have access in 6 months to a ranked crystal. 40 matchs and you make rank 4, you get access to a crystal and a title. and so on an so forth

Edited December 2, 2018 by Seterade

[Rafiknoll]

uh. its the OP. "remove premades from reg queue"

 

Right. Missed that one.

I think we should disregard it automatically as we come to discuss the latest suggestion the discussion has led to. Many threads don't remain very loyal to their exact title (especially when the title is as specific and absolute as this one). Despite the many useless posts in this thread, it actually is quite progressive. Suggestions are made and are replaced/modified/clarified according to feedback. Might actually get to a practical conclusion that actually satisfies the majority, but for that, we need to keep responding only to the latest stuff, and not the OP

 

the point here, and how it would work better, iis it doesnt matter if you win or lose, it only matters how much you play...

 

now consider if you play 10 matchs, and now rep "warleader rank3" you have access in 6 months to a ranked crystal. 40 matchs and you make rank 4, you get access to a crystal and a title. and so on an so forth

 

I was planning to write the small problem I see in this idea, but then realized that I can see such problems in every other possibility as well:

Reward victory - encourages stompy odd-stacking premades too much + toxicity.

Reward medals - encourages selfish number farming and not competitive objective gameplay.

Reward simply playing (this one is yours) - encourages throwing games and AFK "nodeguarding" and /stucking arenas to fit more games (=more rewards) in less time because victory or numbers don't matter anyway.

 

Of course, I am well aware only the bad players (bad not in skill, but morally) will do any of the above while the normal players try to play normally and curse them, but since currently there are already such people in ranked (and a few even in regs already, even though it is nearly unrewarding), you can infer it will get worse the greater the rewards are.

 

Maybe it means that in order to limit such exploit-ive behavior, there MUST remain a gamemode which is not rewarding enough to be worth being such asses?

[Totemdancer]

the point here, and how it would work better, iis it doesnt matter if you win or lose, it only matters how much you play. it also gives the chance for pvp items to be awarded to reg players, just because 8v8 ranked died long ago doesnt mean objective players shouldnt get anything. pvp comes in all forms, pvp does not stand for "pking"/playerkilling. why should you get nothing in swtor when you are an objective regstar, why is it meaningless. if you can answer this question then you are a stepp closer to understanding why in 2018 objectives matter to at best, 10% of consistent pvp queuers.

 

the elo system is the root of the toxcity, and its tied to the rewards. if you win 10 matchs, you are elo (example) 1600. then you lose 1 match, and due to how elo works you lose 20 elo. but if you have 1200 elo you lose 8 elo. and you only get rewards if you get 1800 elo

 

now consider if you play 10 matchs, and now rep "warleader rank3" you have access in 6 months to a ranked crystal. 40 matchs and you make rank 4, you get access to a crystal and a title. and so on an so forth

 

I’ve been waiting 4 days to respond to this because the website has been bugged.

 

I really like this idea of yours and could be something Bioware could use,

[Totemdancer]

Playing a lot of lowbies at the moment because there are a heaps of Satele rerolls on Star Forge at the moment.

Most of the matches have better quality players than lvl 70.

 

One thing I am noticing is the impact premades have in those brackets. They are even more OP than lvl 70 mainly because of voice coms and different available abilities (not so much skill) against pug teams.

 

Now I’ve always been a fan of premades in lowbie for teaching people how to play. I use to do it a lot in the old days.

But what happens now is the queue dies in about 2-3 pops of premades showing up because there just aren’t enough people in the lowbie queues.

 

I don’t think premades should be banned in lowbies. But I do think they should be limited to 2 man premades so that both sides get a premade each.

Lowbies has just started getting more active. The last thing we want to do is kill it ourselves because we “need” or “want” to run 4 man premades to stomp new players.

 

I know Bioware won’t do anything to change premades queueing, so I implore anyone running premades in lowbies to just limit yourselves because you are only hurting the game we love.

[RaithHarth]

Naah I disagree with this, the new matching system seems to be working better where premades are likely to go against other premades. No issues here in an MMO game, people should be aloud to play with there friends on all pvp maps.

 

And what about those that wish to play solo that go up against a premade team? seems kinda unfair doesn't it?

 

If you want to play with friends do ranked, heck Bioware should introduce a 8 vs 8 ranking map for special premade teams not just 4 on 4.

Edited December 6, 2018 by RaithHarth

[KendraP]

And what about those that wish to play solo that go up against a premade team? seems kinda unfair doesn't it?

 

If you want to play with friends do ranked, heck Bioware should introduce a 8 vs 8 ranking map for special premade teams not just 4 on 4.

 

Yeah this game tooootally has the population to support a 8v8 ranked environment. I can't get 4 people on that both want to do and are capable of ranked, much less 8. And if I'm having to deal with running around with whoever happens to be on, I'm going to be doing regs. Its that simple.

 

Not to sound like a jerk, but if you choose to play it solo in a mmo, thats the sacrifice you make by your own making.

Edited December 6, 2018 by KendraP

[Totemdancer]

Yeah this game tooootally has the population to support a 8v8 ranked environment. I can't get 4 people on that both want to do and are capable of ranked, much less 8. And if I'm having to deal with running around with whoever happens to be on, I'm going to be doing regs. Its that simple.

 

Not to sound like a jerk, but if you choose to play it solo in a mmo, thats the sacrifice you make by your own making.

 

You are right, 8v8 teams won’t work because of lack of players and was never as popular because one or two teams would dominate the server.

 

What I would like to see is a solo queue for 8v8 ranked. The same as the 4v4 solo queue, I think that would work and I think it would actually bring pvpers back to the game. Especially those that have left over the degraded skill lvls in regs and people not trying to win. It certainly wouldn’t pop any less than solo 4v4 and might even pop more.

I know I would never step foot back into reg 8v8 unless there was some gate to get into 8v8 ranked. Which there should be. The same as there should be one for 4v4 ranked.

 

Then Bioware could just make one reg bracket for all lvls of pvp and boost everyone to lvl 70 while in the matches. Which is exactly what they do n Guild Wars 2. That would solve the problem of numbers in the queue because people lvling could still play pvp and people at lvl 70 regs would have more to play with.

 

So my proposal is a complete overhaul of the pvp brackets and system.

 

1. Add 8v8 ranked solo queue. Gated by being lvl 70 with a high legacy Valor rating and gear (no Bolster)

2. Remove lowbies and Mids brackets and merge them with lvl 70 reg queue

3. Boost everyone in regs to lvl 70 and bolster everyone to max gear lvl.

4. Reduce premades in regs to 2 man only or only make the queue pop premade vs premade (when possible. ie more than two premades in the queue)

5. Keep both solo and team 4v4 ranked with solo more of a learning curve for team ranked (better rewards and status playing team)

6. There would actually be one less queue than now because lowbies, Mids and reg lvl 70 would be merged into one queue

 

This makes regs availabe for everyone from lvl 10-70 and doesn’t spread out the population. It also makes regs a fun and less stressful place for casual and less serious players.

Ranked solo 8v8, solo 4v4 and team 4v4 gives serious and competitive players an outlet for each type of pvp in the game. Therefore there should be no reason (other than gating) for more experienced players to be in regs.

 

I believe having a setup like this would not only encourage more casual players to pvp, but would also bring back more competitive players, especially those who prefer 8v8 format. In doing so, it would most likely increase the pvp pops for all queues I’ve suggested.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Totemdancer