What is the studio plans for adjusting Bolster in 5.10??

[Lord_Kavar]

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

 

 

FFS guys! that means you AGAIN IGNORED all PvPers' concerns and move on as always! We need PvP based on skill..we need static gear rating for everyone!

[kukumburr]

All those nice updates for PVP and a new map and then you hit the PVPers with this...

 

Yeah it is a bit weird that we're going from "summer of PvP" to stealth nerfs to huttball carriers, unresolved problems with backfilling/queue dropping in ranked, encouraging mat farming with the insane costs of the new crafted gear (but at the same time trying to discourage with increased games when losing for weekly?), requiring grindy PvE for new BiS gear, and then making bolster worse.

 

I mean at least they're bolstering the augments up to the good ones now I guess. Still a 10 ilvl difference though. I mean it'd be nice to hear what exactly the vision is supposed to be here other than "make PvPers do PvE if they want to play PvP on even ground" which just seems like such a backward step.

 

At least put it up to 252 in my opinion. And while I know it might not be possible for this patch, in the future please either bring back PvP gear (which I would prefer) or rework bolster to make it reliably set everyone at a certain ilvl (I don't even care what ilvl) and people can just adjust their tertiary stats the way they want them or something.

[DzastinBiberi]

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

 

So all of us who grinded like mad for 248 gear for pvp are just gonna get throwed under the bus?

 

Seems legit.

[phalczen]

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

 

There must be something I don’t understand here, either about how 252 gear is supposed to be acquired, how 258 gear is supposed to be acquired, and what the justification is for a ten point item rating difference.

How is this a middle ground?

[Totemdancer]

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

 

That is the terrible and worse than the current bolster of 242 compared to 248 with difference of 6 gear rating

 

Now you want to have 248 Bolster with a gap of 10 gear rating.

 

It’s nearly the same as when you had Bolster set at 236 and had to up it to 242.

 

You guys really dont get it or understand pvpers, if this goes ahead, I’m also packing it in with this game.

 

Wake up and consult with the actual pvp community before you have no pvp community left and no game.

[Totemdancer]

FFS guys! that means you AGAIN IGNORED all PvPers' concerns and move on as always! We need PvP based on skill..we need static gear rating for everyone!

 

And they wonder why pvpers are leaving the game.

 

BIOWARE STOP BEING STUBBORN. You don’t always know what’s best for the players or what’s fun for us.

How about consulting with the actual pvp players and getting our feed back,

 

Just admit this gearing will be a bad idea and allow pvpers to have skill vs skill pvp.

[Totemdancer]

Yeah it is a bit weird that we're going from "summer of PvP" to stealth nerfs to huttball carriers, unresolved problems with backfilling/queue dropping in ranked, encouraging mat farming with the insane costs of the new crafted gear (but at the same time trying to discourage with increased games when losing for weekly?), requiring grindy PvE for new BiS gear, and then making bolster worse.

 

I mean at least they're bolstering the augments up to the good ones now I guess. Still a 10 ilvl difference though. I mean it'd be nice to hear what exactly the vision is supposed to be here other than "make PvPers do PvE if they want to play PvP on even ground" which just seems like such a backward step.

 

At least put it up to 252 in my opinion. And while I know it might not be possible for this patch, in the future please either bring back PvP gear (which I would prefer) or rework bolster to make it reliably set everyone at a certain ilvl (I don't even care what ilvl) and people can just adjust their tertiary stats the way they want them or something.

 

There is absolutely no logic in that office, it’s like one hand doesn’t know what the other hand is doing. Which makes it hard when they have 5 hands trying to juggle one ball and they keep dropping it.

 

Pvp of summer and then systematically destroy all the hard work with those issues you described. Also don’t forget the desync which is nearly making the new Hutt Ball map unplayable.

[Joonbeams]

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

 

This isn't a bolster. Had to re-read this three times! Bolster to less than BiS == no bolster at all (where the gear can't be credibly earned via PvP). So let's start there. But "bolster" to 248, which is two gear tiers below BiS, is just an outright mockery. It's getting so hard to come up with reasons to believe this isn't intentional sabotage...

[SteveTheCynic]

There must be something I don’t understand here, either about how 252 gear is supposed to be acquired, how 258 gear is supposed to be acquired, and what the justification is for a ten point item rating difference.

How is this a middle ground?

It's a middle ground between leaving the bolster as it was and moving it all the way to the new BiS, I guess.

[SteveTheCynic]

BIOWARE STOP BEING STUBBORN. You don’t always know what’s best for the players or what’s fun for us.

How about consulting with the actual pvp players and getting our feed back,

They have to balance three largely contradictory things, one of which is also self-contradictory, while another is ill-defined:

* Best for the game (and by extension the studio)

* Best for the players (hard to define)

* What's fun for the players.

 

The last one there is not only hard to balance against the other two, but (as a generality) it's also hard to balance against itself. *Some* players would like warzones to be fully bolstered (or some other mechanism, e.g. see GW2) to eliminate gear differences, while others would like a progression (something to earn) so long as the difference isn't too large and too much work to overcome, while a third group would be happiest with a big gear gap or no bolster at all, so that they can have fun roflstomping undergeared scrubs.

 

Now extend that to the whole game, and it can be seen that accommodating what people think is fun is really hard. They've done pretty well at accommodating Fashion Wars: the Old Catwalk, and less well at other things.

[bladech]

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Luckily i canceled my recurring subscription and wont suffer from your dumb decisions soon in pvp. If you have no idea how pvp works you wont have any pvp players playing swtor

[Sarova]

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

I'm out of ever trying serious PvP. Many people guessed this was going to happen. Trying to compete in PvP is already bad for lightning spec and has been made pointless by this decision. I'm going to be very tempted to go into ranked in 5.10 and piss everyone off by letting people kill me repeatedly because I just won't be able to inflict any useful damage on players with 252 gear.

 

PvP only players are going to be very pissed off as this is a huge disadvantage. Elite PvEers (raiders) should not be getting a gear advantage against elite PvPers just because they can access better gear quicker.

Do you (BW) not understand that some people will not do PvE story or grinds for gear? What possessed you to tie higher gear to PvE only activities (and don't say "the dark side")? If it's an attempt to keep the PvPers subbed by making them grind for gear (pun?) it's not going to work; people will just leave for a game that offers better PvP.

 

There are two solutions: either add the ability for players to get higher tier gear (252+) from PvP only activities (regs/ranked/starfighter) that avoid PvE altogether OR bring back PvP only gear.

[TUXs]

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

Are you serious Eric? This is a HORRIBLE idea. Bolster should be up to 252 MINIMUM...258 would be better.

[MandFlurry]

So all of us who grinded like mad for 248 gear for pvp are just gonna get throwed under the bus?

 

Seems legit.

 

I expected it to go to 248, i think we might get more changes in gearing ahead to.

[Raansu]

I'm more surprised any of you thought bolster would be above 250. I fully expected it to be 246 and surprised its being set to 248. If any of you expected any kind of major changes in 5.10 for pvp you're crazy. IF we get a change in gearing approach for pvp, it won't be till 6.0.

 

Honestly, I'm not even bothered by it anymore. I do believe ranked should max out, but as far as regs go, I run around in 236 gear on my alts and sometimes for fun naked with just weapons and still thrash everyone, including those in 248's.

 

So all of us who grinded like mad for 248 gear for pvp are just gonna get throwed under the bus?

 

Seems legit.

 

Are you new to MMO's?

Edited October 30, 2018 by Raansu

[Andryah]

Honestly, I'm not even bothered by it anymore. I do believe ranked should max out, but as far as regs go, I run around in 236 gear on my alts and sometimes for fun naked with just weapons and still thrash everyone, including those in 248's.

I agree with this.

 

Ranked is essentially an esport within an MMO and as such... it should be about skill and teamwork, with gear a nonfactor in the competition.

 

And it seems to me like it would not be that difficult to have a unique bolster setting for Ranked... vs all other PvP. Then again.. they have messed up bolster how many times over the years and had to patch-2-fix after the fact? Which is sad.. but NOT a reason to not consider implementing a two tier bolster system for unranked/ranked.

 

Your comment is a lucid argument for bolster =248 for non-ranked PvP and 258 (ie: whatever current BiS is) for ranked matches. I would honestly think that PvPers would settle down to a coherent discussion and petition to the studio to genuinely consider this approach.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Andryah

[mhobin]

I agree with this.

 

Ranked is essentially an esport within an MMO and as such... it should be about skill and teamwork, with gear a nonfactor in the competition.

 

And it seems to me like it would not be that difficult to have a unique bolster setting for Ranked... vs all other PvP. Then again.. they have messed up bolster how many times over the years and had to patch-2-fix after the fact? Which is sad.. but NOT a reason to not consider implementing a two tier bolster system for unranked/ranked.

 

Your comment is a lucid argument for bolster =248 for non-ranked PvP and 258 (ie: whatever current BiS is) for ranked matches. I would honestly think that PvPers would settle down to a coherent discussion and petition to the studio to genuinely consider this approach.

 

This would end all complaints from PvPers if announced.

 

Will it happen? Nah

[DzastinBiberi]

I'm more surprised any of you thought bolster would be above 250. I fully expected it to be 246 and surprised its being set to 248. If any of you expected any kind of major changes in 5.10 for pvp you're crazy. IF we get a change in gearing approach for pvp, it won't be till 6.0.

 

Honestly, I'm not even bothered by it anymore. I do believe ranked should max out, but as far as regs go, I run around in 236 gear on my alts and sometimes for fun naked with just weapons and still thrash everyone, including those in 248's.

 

 

 

Are you new to MMO's?

 

Nah, I've been reliving this constant BW madness since 2014.

[Raansu]

Nah, I've been reliving this constant BW madness since 2014.

 

Then you should know that new gear = new grind.

[DzastinBiberi]

Then you should know that new gear = new grind.

 

I know, but 5.0 grind was terrible and this new one looks like 5.0.

[Raansu]

I know, but 5.0 grind was terrible and this new one looks like 5.0.

 

Comes with the territory. I don't expect anything major till 6.0 and I knew 5.10 new tier would be a crazy grind cuz they need to try and branch it out for the 5-6 months or however long till 6.0 comes out (I imagine summer 19.)

[EricMusco]

Just a quick update for the thread. We are going to take Bolster to 252 instead of 248 as originally stated in the thread. New post detailing that info here.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone, keep it coming!

 

-eric

[Andryah]

Just a quick update for the thread. We are going to take Bolster to 252 instead of 248 as originally stated in the thread. New post detailing that info here.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone, keep it coming!

 

-eric

 

Thank you for the update Eric.

 

And thank you to the studio for realizing that 248 was not a parity move compared to the current bolster vs current BiS. 252 achieves that.

 

I also appreciate you giving a more detailed run down on studio thinking behind bolster settings in PvP here:

 

Hey folks,

 

Whenever we introduce new gear to the game, there is an inevitable conversation about what changes will be made to Bolster. As I mentioned in this thread, our original intention in 5.10 was to take Bolster and move it to 248. That thread along with the rest of the forums led to a lot of great feedback from all of you on how you feel about the state of Bolster, should it be higher, or lower, etc. That brought us to sit down and really look at what we want from Bolster now and going forward and so we are going to make an additional change. Let’s talk about why we originally landed on 248, where we are going next, and why.

 

Addressing Master Work Gear and 248 Bolster

Simply put, in order to make Master Mode Gods From the Machine as terrifying as it should be we needed to have a larger item rating jump than usual for our new gear. As many of you likely know, typically a new tier of gear means a 6 item rating differential. In this case, since we wanted to balance against a higher target we opted to introduce two item ratings of growth at 252 and 258 as a part of a single tier. Historically, we have moved Bolster to be equal to the previous tier’s best in slot item rating. In this case, that makes it 248 (which is what we chose). However, since this tier jump was different it also meant that we couldn’t be 100% consistent. By choosing 248 it means there is a 10 item rating differential, where normally this is only a 6 rating difference. Even though it is a “one tier” jump, it actually creates a larger item rating differential than there usually is. To address this, we are going to be increasing Bolster in Game Update 5.10 to item rating 252 (previously planned to be 248).

 

Also, as a reminder we are not only adjusting Bolster on gear, but also on Augments. We are increasing Augment Bolster from 208 to 236. This will additionally help in closing the gap between BiS players and those being Bolstered.

 

Bolster Beyond 5.10

A number of players have brought up the idea of having Bolster be at the highest item rating available. Effectively making gear in PvP irrelevant, where skill is the only deciding factor. Although we understand the desire from players on that side of the debate, it does introduce some issues. If there is no gear chase from PvP that removes all progression from PvP gameplay and it also removes a part of the reward structure.

 

However, we do know that there has been unhappiness with PvP gearing in general in the 5.0 era, especially with the removal of Expertise. To make large itemization changes to PvP like that will require an equally large update, so this is the type of issue we will have to wait until an expansion sized update to tackle. We will consider a variety of options including reintroducing PvP specific stats/gear, Boslter changes, etc. and we will make sure to talk through planned changes with all of you when we get to that point.

 

Let us know your thoughts.

 

-eric

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=956074 Edited November 9, 2018 by Andryah

[DzastinBiberi]

Just a quick update for the thread. We are going to take Bolster to 252 instead of 248 as originally stated in the thread. New post detailing that info here.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone, keep it coming!

 

-eric

 

Thanks for taking the time to read our suggestions and complains.

 

Could there be a way to make it easier for PVPers to obtain the gear?

 

Maybe increasing the cap when buying MWS with UC?

 

Just an idea.

[DawnAskham]

Bolster at 252 seems generous enough - the vast majority of players are not going to lose / die because they were missing a few stats in random PVP matches.

 

Most will lose or die because they were outplayed, out-numbered, already low HP, out of CDs versus someone with CDs, matched with poor group, have a bad group competition, queued solo and pitted against a pre-made, etc, etc.

 

Doesn't mean the 'ooooh shinny' aspect won't drive players to pursue the new gear (which is the design objective), or whine about the grind while doing so, but just that for most, it will be irrelevant.