How many did Hate KOTFE or KOTET...

[Totemdancer]

As a counter part to the “How many did not Hate KOTFE or KOTET...” thread.

 

How many did hate KOTFE or KOTET or disliked things about it.

 

I didn’t mind the story itself. But I would have like to see Darth Marr survive and HK.

 

What I hated about both expansions and what made me stop playing the story after the first run through was I couldn’t play it in a group with my wife, unless we wanted to run through it twice.

It completely ruined the MMO aspect of the game and ruined the reason we both started playing it in the first place. We use to have 2 nights a week where we would always play stuff together. That was usually story things, With KOTFE and KOTET, we could no longer do that.

She stopped playing for about 14 months and has only just started again. But we can only do Flash points or heroics together. She doesn’t play pvp and I’m not an RPer like her. She spends most of her time rerunning the story to get every class through it and then she’ll probably quit again and go back to WoW or GW2 where she can play with groups of friends.

 

The other thing I bitterly disliked was the gearing change in 5.0. As a pvper, the grind was horrendous and most of the people I would pvp with, left the game. I really hated the Devs for driving those people away. (I’m concerned they on a similar path with 5.10. Changing the gearing system for no valid reason and driving more pvpers from the game. But that’s for a different thread)

 

Other than that, I didn’t mind the story, even if it did depart from the empire and republic story. It was the move towards making the game solo orientated that made me hate the expansions.

[MandFlurry]

These stupid threads need to go. Too many on 1 subject.

[Khevar]

These stupid threads need to go. Too many on 1 subject.

Easy to say in a thread that disagrees with your viewpoint.

 

You're not exactly an impartial observer ...

Edited October 21, 2018 by Khevar

[Totemdancer]

These stupid threads need to go. Too many on 1 subject.

 

Different discussion, so it needs a different thread.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Totemdancer

[Celise]

Variation on a theme more like. this forum has one too many like that.

 

did i hate FE and ET? not particuarly, but it wasn't a favorite either. i'm sort of neutral about it.

of the small things i didn't like was during a livesteam before FE was launched, eric was on the screen providing a live walkthrough of chapter 1 upto when a choice was to be made. Darth Marr died and the twitch chat was on fire about it. when a question came up if there is a way to save Marr Musco half way smiled as if the very question was absurd.

 

Darth Marr was one of those characters that i could get behind and follow for a bit, as he restores the empire from all the choas and infighting. would of loved to of gotten more Michael Harney in there as voice over. when previous content got boring enough, along came makeb and Marr had that effect at waking you up out of that sleepwalking trance.

 

Unfortunately Darth Marr's character is done and the threat of the EE is no longer, he has little reason to resist the lure of the void in the force since his empire is safe. so yeah i wasn't best pleased with the way Marr was handled in game.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Celise

[Goreshaga]

Well i don't really understand the need to create a new thread to discuss things that were already discussed in the other one when the only actual difference there is is that the title is phrased differently.

 

But well, i did NOT hate KOTFE/ET, i enjoyed that storyline very much on my JK as it felt like a logical continuation of her journey to defeat the Emperor.

 

My only actual complaint is that the story was cut short to please people who wanted to go back to EvsR before the story was even halfway through.

 

But i'm ok with admitting that even if i'm not concerned as i always play by myself, i can understang the frustration of this storyline being solo only for people who enjoy running around with a friend.

[fishpeople]

I enjoyed KOTFE minus the chapter about Satele, Darth Marr and the force weapon which I sold upon finishing the chapter.

 

KOTET onwards, on the other hand, I can't stand. There is so much wasted potential in this story.

[Ylliarus]

Easy to say in a thread that disagrees with your viewpoint.

 

You're not exactly an impartial observer ...

 

Agreed, the mere fact this thread disagrees with their own opinion does not make it inherently stupid. I really wish people would stop calling others stupid or unintelligent the moment an opinion is expressed that disagrees with their own.

 

The thing is, had this thread been another one praising KotFE or KotET then there would have been no problem. But because it does the opposite, it is a problem, because it challenges the opinions of those who liked the two stories.

 

To go back ontopic: as I said before, had KotFE and KotET been seperate stories on their own not tied to SWTOR, then I would have probably loved them. But as a continuation of the main SWTOR storyline they are horrible. They take each of the class story protagonists, throw out their diversity and cut them all into the same blank piece of paper called the Alliance Commander. The story itself is designed as a railroad, our choices merely changing the decor a bit but not the trail the story follows. There is little to no variation between multiple playthroughs on different characters and everything in the story from the Eternal Empire to the Gravestone is overpowered to the point it becomes unbelievable. On top of that the story throws out the core theme of the base SWTOR game and morphs the setting into something unrecognizable that completely lost the SWTOR-feel in my opinion.

 

I do agree with the people saying that KotFE and KotET should be revealed to have been only our character's dream. The two stories ruined my perception of my main characters up to the point I felt it necessary to delete them and reroll new toons, who I will absolutely take nowhere near KotFE and KotET. I find it much and much more enjoyable to play through the entire Sith Inquisitor class story or the Sith Warrior one, time and time again (I'm on my sixth playthrough of the Inquisitor class story as we speak) than play through any of KotFE or KotET again.

[JattaGin]

The question for me is:

 

Is there anything about KotFE or KoTET that we haven't discussed yet ad nauseam?

 

KotFE is 3 years old, KotET 2 years!!! We didn't have new threads about RotHC in 2015. Or SoR in 2016.

 

But yeah, I get it: There is nothing else interesting enough* to discuss about this game anymore. I mean, we're talking these days about romancing Khem. Seriously...

 

*Despite 5.10 on the way, sooner or later.

Edited October 21, 2018 by JattaGin

[AlrikFassbauer]

I never really hated KOTFE, it only felt not that much like Star Wars to me. And no, I do not mean the "war" apect.

[DanNV]

I am one of the few people remaining in the game who hated both. I have 48 total characters, 2 completed it (I think, it might only be one.) None of my other characters will ever progress that storyline, ever. If I could reset all of them to the end end of 3.x, I would and never look back. If I could keep my current companions on those characters and move on to 6.0 as though 4.x and 5.x had never happened I'd be even happier. As it is, I'll raid with my group as long as it keep managing to make a full group once in a while.

[KamiSongheart]

Hate the story? Not hate but certainly not what I would have preferred. I still would have liked seeing the full version.

 

Hate the way it was implemented? Absolutely. I didn't mind the bit by bit release but I don't like the self-contained chapters. It's like running back to back flashpoints which is not my personal idea of fun.

 

Overall, starting KotFE felt like I was starting a whole new game. Didn't like that and I avoid it as much as possible.

[Damask_Rose]

Hate is too strong of a word. Dislike fits better.

 

- I found the whole Vitiate is Valkorion thing to be ridiculous and unbelievable. I also couldn't take his children seriously as major villains with so much focus on them being petulant children. The idea that Zakuul was some sort of superior empire was also patently ridiculous. The retconning of Nathema was even worse.

 

- I disliked how they handled companions. Half voiced/half animated alliance recruitments. 2 minute slapped together returns. Returned companions being different and inferior to their previous selves. No choice on who you run with.

 

- I do hate the gimmicky sections. Ugh, the pointless running around for the party! The god awful walker combat! I shelve characters for months at a time when those chapters are next up.

 

- Not enough character agency. Not enough class flavor. Too many plot holes and inconsistencies.

 

That said, I couldn't care less that we are going back to Imp vs Pub if they do a good job with the story. Make it a believable transition that respects all variations of our characters and don't invalidate our previous choices!

[Rekar]

Hated it. Didn't feel like star wars.

[MishaCantu]

Hate is too strong of a word. Dislike fits better.

 

- I found the whole Vitiate is Valkorion thing to be ridiculous and unbelievable. I also couldn't take his children seriously as major villains with so much focus on them being petulant children. The idea that Zakuul was some sort of superior empire was also patently ridiculous. The retconning of Nathema was even worse.

 

- I disliked how they handled companions. Half voiced/half animated alliance recruitments. 2 minute slapped together returns. Returned companions being different and inferior to their previous selves. No choice on who you run with.

 

- I do hate the gimmicky sections. Ugh, the pointless running around for the party! The god awful walker combat! I shelve characters for months at a time when those chapters are next up.

 

- Not enough character agency. Not enough class flavor. Too many plot holes and inconsistencies.

 

That said, I couldn't care less that we are going back to Imp vs Pub if they do a good job with the story. Make it a believable transition that respects all variations of our characters and don't invalidate our previous choices!

 

I couldn't agree more. I too shelve toons for weeks or months when I've reached those chapters, especially that damned party on Zakuul. Too much wasted space on Arcann and Vaylinn, and if I never hear her screech owl voice again, it will be too soon. I can't hit the space bar fast enough to get through it. Making them both petulant children with daddy issues really negates any reason for sympathy.

 

Being forced to take every companion in the universe as my crew was a waste of time. I can't even do alliance alerts any more. I don't want any of them except my originals. And the returns were poorly written and disappointing to say the least. And, you're right, they are just ghosts of their previous selves. I hope they NEVER get into that killing spree again either. What a travesty.

 

I do hope that they give someone other than the Jedi Knight or other force users a reason to go back to pub vs imp. Sort of tired of my other characters being fifth wheels with no valid reason to be in the fight.

[Ardrossan]

I couldn't agree more. I too shelve toons for weeks or months when I've reached those chapters, especially that damned party on Zakuul.

 

This is a good topic. I didn't mind that chapter because it finally gives some resolution depending on your handling of Arcann. Also, after doing it twice, it gets much easier to speed through everything. The walker battles were annoying, but not too bad. I also really hated the mouse droid chapter until I'd done it a few times, after that it was less frustrating.

 

For me the worst chapters to play through are Anarchy and Paradise [bad VAs, bad story and a slogfest to activate those bombs] and the one about making the Magic Weapon [again, bad story and a repetitive slogfest through a planet that might have been otherwise interesting to explore]. Those are the chapters I dread doing again.

 

I did all the heroic SFs on my main, did the story FP on another, then stopped doing them completely. Eventually I'll have to go back for them if I want all the cheevos. I did use my main to get the combat cheevos for each of the forgettable SF comps we get. Did all the alliance alerts on my main, then only did the ones that were class-specific or easy [like Nico]. Grinded the specialists to 20 on my main, the rest are in the teens; heroics just aren't a very good source of CXP compared to weeklies. Took my main through Fractured Alliances up to Nathema, as for the rest, most haven't even finished KOTET. Did one uprising, that was enough. Attempted GotM, not too plussed that's intended to be a grind quest.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Ardrossan

[Severith]

It's like the devs were in a SNL skit.

 

"I got a fever....and the only perscription.....is more skytroopers!"

 

Wasn't impressed by them at first, and it went downhill from there. Only did the stories on 2 toons. Never again.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I loved both KOTFE and KOTET but nothing is perfect. I think the question is whether the problems > the advantages or not. For me, that was not the case.

 

I think it would have worked far better if we'd had the original plan of three seasons, with the companion returns as originally scripted. But we didn't, so with what we did get:

 

1. I felt that the story didn't work very well for the non-Force users.

 

2. Poor use of companions. For instance, I still think it's weird that Talos Drelik, who happened to be an expert in ancient Sith lore and had personal experience working with a Force walker and Force ghosts was only an Alliance alert, while Kaliyo was main story. Or why Felix Iresso wasn't found in Nathema, or Akaavi Spaar wasn't with the rest of the Mandalorians.

 

3. I don't know if the post-KOTET returns count toward this, but IMHO the "two minute wonders" were by and large really poorly done. A lot of them were implausible and seemed to be really out of character for both companions and the PC.

 

4. The focus on Valkorion's family. I. Didn't. Care. I didn't want to see cut scene after cut scene about Valkorion's House of Pain.

 

5. I still can't accept that the LS choice for dealing with the genocidal leader was to forgive him with no punishment and no pushback from the Alliance. Whatever one thinks of him, that just didn't ring true to me and I thought half the Alliance, or more, would have rioted or walked out.

 

6. The walker segments. I hate doing those chapters. The walkers are the worst.

[QuinlanSaathis]

I did not hate it

[Fallensouls]

IT was Epic so I did not hate it. Unfortunately Bioware got Duped into going back to the Sith vs Jedi story line.

I really liked Valkorian as your main enemy he is the most fearsome of villans ever to be put into any Star Wars Story. The best part is how powerful your characters become to combat him. The Story was what I have expected of Bioware from Kotor to Mass Effect you guys are the best story tellers. Except for Nathema I have enjoyed all of them. I was looking forward to learning more about Iokath and Zakuul. It is a shame to be moving away from those stories. I will not be Subbing to the game for 6.0 because I do not desire to go backwards in my characters story to the previous factions. My guild leader has pretty much decided to go back to ESO after we all saw the Live Stream. So pretty much majority of them are going to reform our guild there. I dont have any desire to go back to a boring story and rehashed plots from earlier in the game. Plus if the story is rushed like Nathema it wont be very good anyway. I have played this for 6 years since the beginning and Im done with being forced into directions I dont want for my character.

 

You know one of the greatest Star Wars Series did not even involve any darkside users? Star Wars Legends was about them fighting the Yuuzhan Vong and it is a dark story, many died. It was one of the most widely sold series of Star wars.

I would have loved if they brought the Yuuzhan Vong into this game. That would be very challenging to fight a race that the force doesn't effect. That would have been a great enemy to fight as the Alliance. That would have brought allot of the Star Wars fans back to see that.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Totemdancer]

I couldn't agree more. I too shelve toons for weeks or months when I've reached those chapters, especially that damned party on Zakuul. Too much wasted space on Arcann and Vaylinn, and if I never hear her screech owl voice again, it will be too soon. I can't hit the space bar fast enough to get through it. Making them both petulant children with daddy issues really negates any reason for sympathy.

 

Being forced to take every companion in the universe as my crew was a waste of time. I can't even do alliance alerts any more. I don't want any of them except my originals. And the returns were poorly written and disappointing to say the least. And, you're right, they are just ghosts of their previous selves. I hope they NEVER get into that killing spree again either. What a travesty.

 

I agree and I really really hated the stupid party thing. It was a complete waste of time running all that way, back and forth to get around. It also wasn’t intuitive and I had to help many people work it out. Which was a waste of my time too.

 

One thing that really bugs me and I hate is the way they’ve changed how you interact with NPCs. We went from having a wheel to this stupid thing off to the left and then you don’t even get to talk to the NPC, you just hit a button for click and the NPC starts talkin again. There is no immersion at all.

 

I’ve only done the whole thing from start to finish on 2 Alts. After that, if I want to do something at the end of the game, like farm mats in an area or help my wife with something, I just skip as far to the end as I can.

 

What’s also bad is some of the fights in the story aren’t intuitive. If you aren’t used to complex mechanics in operations or flash points, how are you supposed to work them out at story content level?

My wife doesn’t do either OPs or flash points (without me). She’s mainly story, Roleplay and a tiny bit of pvp. She’s no idea how most mechanics work and it was getting too much for her and she would stop playing altogether. After she broke her first mouse on the desk in frustration at her own inability to get it, I had to step in and do most of the fights for her.

 

Bioware dumbed down the rest of the game and then made certain aspects too hard or not intuitive enough for some people to work out. If they’d kept the vanilla game the way it was and not made it supper easy, then people would have better skills to last long enough to work out the mechanics,

[kodrac]

I didn't start out hating it. KOTFE 1 - 9 wasn't so bad. It was new and interesting, though the corridors of trash mobs sucked.. I ran all my toons through it because I was eager to know what happens next. And I liked the idea of monthly chapters to give me something to look forward to. But then 10, 11 and 12 happened and I learned to loathe it. I felt baited. It probably wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't made the Alliance permanent and then, worse, Emperor or caretaker.

 

Joining forces should always have been temporary. The whole Alliance thing was dull and uninteresting. 1 - 9 should have dealt with Arcann and the intervening chapters should have been companion returns, but the way they did it felt drug out. And then the Alliance should have ended once Arcann was dealt with it, but they drug it out too with Vaylin and then drug it out with Iokath and then drug it out with the traitor. Dear god just kill it already. Kill it with fire!

[Slafer]

As a counter part to the “How many did not Hate KOTFE or KOTET...” thread.

 

How many did hate KOTFE or KOTET or disliked things about it.

 

I didn’t mind the story itself. But I would have like to see Darth Marr survive and HK.

 

What I hated about both expansions and what made me stop playing the story after the first run through was I couldn’t play it in a group with my wife, unless we wanted to run through it twice.

It completely ruined the MMO aspect of the game and ruined the reason we both started playing it in the first place. We use to have 2 nights a week where we would always play stuff together. That was usually story things, With KOTFE and KOTET, we could no longer do that.

She stopped playing for about 14 months and has only just started again. But we can only do Flash points or heroics together. She doesn’t play pvp and I’m not an RPer like her. She spends most of her time rerunning the story to get every class through it and then she’ll probably quit again and go back to WoW or GW2 where she can play with groups of friends.

 

The other thing I bitterly disliked was the gearing change in 5.0. As a pvper, the grind was horrendous and most of the people I would pvp with, left the game. I really hated the Devs for driving those people away. (I’m concerned they on a similar path with 5.10. Changing the gearing system for no valid reason and driving more pvpers from the game. But that’s for a different thread)

 

Other than that, I didn’t mind the story, even if it did depart from the empire and republic story. It was the move towards making the game solo orientated that made me hate the expansions.

 

I actually enjoyed it despite some small flaws, the problem I have with your issue with it is that star wars since before release has been a story driven mmorpg with personal stories your complaint applies in the class stories as well you'd have to run them twice to do them together, to make them group achievable would take away from the foundation of the game, and even if your wife don't like pvp there are plenty of flashpoints you could do together

that are group content, as well as heroics, and bounties, an operation,event missions can be done together even if you cant share you can both get materials at the same time iv done that,

[Khaleijo]

Damask_Rose nailed it pretty much.

I didn't hate it, but was disappointed. It's simply not a good story. Certain chapters could have worked well, if the red thread wouldn't have been cut off right in the next one. To me most of it felt disconnected as if there were several ideas of several people thrown together, without someone taking a look if it even makes sense or contradicts itself as whole.

With how all those cutscenes of the Valkorions turned out, it also wasn't as much playing the game any longer it was too much 'sit there and watch' without the abilitiy to act.

SWTOR is a game though and not a TV show. I want to PLAY and take part in the story. Not watch the sitcom behaviour of some brats.

 

KOTFE 1-9 was sort of intriguing, even though there were some plot holes already.

But then especially the forced recruitment missions with certain characters were just bad story wise.

Jorgan|Sith or agent for example simply is ridiculous with how much his hatred for Imperials and Sith was characterised before and him holding grudges in general.

As well as certain chapters as non force user, vice versa others like the heist chapter as force user.

The whole leader of the alliance theme, when in truth the player character is nothing but an errand boy for Lana and Theron.

I don't even mind the errand boy thing that much, since it's just what you are in most RPGs, but the constant commander/leader emphasis, while there wasn't even the illusion of deciding anything, was really annoying.

 

Last but not least the constant stupid betrayal theme especially when playing DS.

It happened just too often and too obvious, while not having a real impact.

We are the famed commander but everyone and his brother coming along is able to get the better of us? Trick us, use us and so on? And our PC never expects it, never prepares for the event or maybe learns to be less trusting from the last betrayal? And all that happening while having two supposed experts of intelligence work as advisors?

Honestly that is not a leader I would trust and follow.

Too much use of plot armor. The high frequency the PC is given the choice to kill or is driven into conflict and fights, to then do a HAHA! pwned with the opponent being saved by plot armor...

That's just bad/lazy writing, if someone has to be kept alive like that instead of coming up with a solution that doesn't need that. More so if it happens repeatedly.

 

Additionally choice matter vs there is no real consequence, for example of "loosing" the Gravestone, no "we need to get our best weapon back, Theron has found intel, do that extra mission, you have to work for it because you weren't nice"

It just appears when needed, no matter what we do with Koth.

 

While I do like going back Imp versus Pub, more important to me is that it's a good story the present us with 6.0, without plot holes and cheap solutions like plot armour. With our player characters as main protagonists, even if we are just a wheel in the big machinations going on. My PC should have the screen time, not others.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Khaleijo

[TUXs]

I didn't hate the stories, they were fine as a "side quest" type of thing, but I did hate how they pretended like everything prior to KOTFE never even happened. I had to win back my companions even...what the hell?! I hated how a time jump of 5 years had ZERO effect on anything else. Fleet was identical, planets were all identical. I hated how I was forced to play solo in an MMO.

 

I didn't "hate" it...but I hated that that was all we got for 2-years.