252/258 gear for "pure" PVPers

[Totemdancer]

A grind? The expertise PVP sets was a grind? It took about 3 weeks for a casual PVPer to be BiS and could be done in 1-2 weeks with a bit of dedication. Most of the time it would be instant as people had plenty of comms saved up. The whole point of asking for a return to PVP gear is to NOT have a grind. And what is this about having to run with 2 sets? Do you really hop so wildly between high level PvE content and then back to PVP content, that you can not spend 30 seconds to take the appropriate gear out of storage? You think this is a valid reason to **** over the PVP community? Jesus.

 

These are self-entitled, baseless arguments and only serve to fuel the destructive decision of continues gear-apocalypse.

 

Agreed.

 

If you pvped as you lvld a character, just doing the dailies and weeklies, you could BiS as soon as you hit max lvl.

I was always fully geared with in a day of hitting lvl 65.

 

Compared to the system we have now or the system they have announced, there was hardly any grind at all for pvp gear and the grind for pve gear was a hell of a lot less than it is now.

 

If you were to add the time to get the old pvp gearing system and the old pve system together, I could have geared all 30 Alts in two sets in the time it’s taken me to half way gear 10 (none at BiS or even close).

[Mournblood]

A grind? The expertise PVP sets was a grind? It took about 3 weeks for a casual PVPer to be BiS and could be done in 1-2 weeks with a bit of dedication. Most of the time it would be instant as people had plenty of comms saved up. The whole point of asking for a return to PVP gear is to NOT have a grind.

 

 

These are self-entitled, baseless arguments and only serve to fuel the destructive decision of continues gear-apocalypse.

 

I don't know what game you were playing, but as I cited in my earlier post, back when we had 8v8 Ranked, I was grinding out 2 sets of gear for 4 characters: one (Expertise) set for PvP, and one PvE set for progression raiding, for each character. That's considered light by some people, and it still sucked. And it took me a bit longer than 3 weeks for the Expertise sets, mostly because you'd end up having to buy off-set pieces to pull specific mods in order to min/max correctly. The stock Expertise sets were horribly optimized. For Rage Maras in particular (which was the better Mara spec in PvP back then) it was even worse because you needed to get the armorings for the Jugg sets to capitalize on your Smash ability. The whole thing was a big mess, and not fun. If you see it differently, that's your opinion, but from my experience in one of the most active and prominent PvP/PvE guilds on BC at that time, a lot of players hated the separate gear grind for Expertise gear.

 

The only good thing that came out of Expertise was that it helped mitigate the issue with under-geared players. If you stepped into PvP back then with no Expertise, you'd get crushed like an insect.

 

As for labelling the desire NOT to return to Expertise sets as self-destructive and baseless, and calling those that are against it self-entitled? Wow. That is complete vitriolic nonsense. If you want to state your opinion, however contrary, that's fine. But leave the insults out of the discussion, please, or simply refrain from posting if you can't conduct yourself like an adult.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Mournblood

[EmanoWanga]

This will suck, so if you dont have a NiM raid group you will be stuck with gearing up using UCs but only until it becomes too expensive. Then you will have to save credits to buy from the crafters who run NiMs. So again the rich will become even richer as maybe only 50-80 people will be successfully running Gods NiM.

 

The prices for the crafted gear will be astronomical, as will the sales runs be.

 

I also think this sucks. Even now the best way to gear up was a combination of PVP and PVE. You got 242 stuff from Veteran ops and used UCs to upgrade to 248. With the suggested system NiM raiders can enter ranked and wipe the floor with 248 players.

[alexsamma]

I don't know what game you were playing, but as I cited in my earlier post, back when we had 8v8 Ranked, I was grinding out 2 sets of gear for 4 characters: one (Expertise) set for PvP, and one PvE set for progression raiding, for each character. That's considered light by some people, and it still sucked. And it took me a bit longer than 3 weeks for the Expertise sets, mostly because you'd end up having to buy off-set pieces to pull specific mods in order to min/max correctly. The stock Expertise sets were horribly optimized. For Rage Maras in particular (which was the better Mara spec in PvP back then) it was even worse because you needed to get the armorings for the Jugg sets to capitalize on your Smash ability. The whole thing was a big mess, and not fun. If you see it differently, that's your opinion, but from my experience in one of the most active and prominent PvP/PvE guilds on BC at that time, a lot of players hated the separate gear grind for Expertise gear.

 

The only good thing that came out of Expertise was that it helped mitigate the issue with under-geared players. If you stepped into PvP back then with no Expertise, you'd get crushed like an insect.

 

As for labelling the desire NOT to return to Expertise sets as self-destructive and baseless, and calling those that are against it self-entitled? Wow. That is complete vitriolic nonsense. If you want to state your opinion, however contrary, that's fine. But leave the insults out of the discussion, please, or simply refrain from posting if you can't conduct yourself like an adult.

 

Your posts would indicate that you were playing during the 2.x era (I assume after server xfers opened), when most people talk about pvp gearing they are referring to late 3.x and 4.x when gearing was orders of magnitude faster:

 

Legacy Warzone Comms

Individual mods/enhancements could be purchased

No Ranked Warzone Comms.

 

In 4.x 204 gear was all but "free" and getting 208 was so fast that you couldn't really label it a grind.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

A grind? The expertise PVP sets was a grind? It took about 3 weeks for a casual PVPer to be BiS and could be done in 1-2 weeks with a bit of dedication. Most of the time it would be instant as people had plenty of comms saved up. The whole point of asking for a return to PVP gear is to NOT have a grind. And what is this about having to run with 2 sets? Do you really hop so wildly between high level PvE content and then back to PVP content, that you can not spend 30 seconds to take the appropriate gear out of storage? You think this is a valid reason to **** over the PVP community? Jesus.

 

These are self-entitled, baseless arguments and only serve to fuel the destructive decision of continues gear-apocalypse.

 

Agreed in full.

 

Before 5.0 when I was still a raider, I walked around with 2 sets of gear, it didn't bother me at all as it took like 10 seconds to slap it all on for which theater of war I was going.

 

PVP gearing wasn't gearing. If someone thinks that PVP gear was a grind, don't ever become a raider heh. I had that PVP gear in like in 2 weeks if memory serves, it was easy as hell. I couldn't believe how easy it was after how long it took me to be full BIS for raiding.

 

I'm not exactly sure why some people [and this isn't an insult at all, face value] think it's somehow inappropriate that it should take someone with 15 Alts to gear 15 times longer than someone who's just gearing one character [ like me]. I'm going to be full 258 BIS geared in 10 minutes after I sign on for the 1st time post 5.10. I'm not happy about that mind you.

 

I feel very out of sync with the majority of these posts and it isn't because cause I think the concerns being expressed are invalid to those who feel that way, I just don't understand why I'm not feeling any of these concerns myself. I'm totally sympathetic the concerns, I'm not knocking anyone, but I don't share any of these concerns and I don't know what to make of that. It isn't about right or wrong, everyones opinions and concerns are valid in their own way, having read all the same things about how changes are coming as everyone else here has.

 

That said, I will support what the majority of the PVPers feel is what's best for it I'm personally fine with any of the suggestions and what the proposed changes that are coming from BW.

 

I do think out of respect to all the concerns people are having that probably the best way to go for PVP is PVP gear re-instated which I think if the best idea because it comes with the added bonus of allowing devs to make class balances for one type of play that won't effect it in the other type of play. So you can fix an overperformer in PVP without hurting their PVE counterpart who isn't really over performing. Given the utter disaster of what some people actually thought was balancing the classes in 5.0, I think that's a strong point for consideration.

 

Bolster may be easier and it will certainly alay the concerns of most PVPers if I'm seeing the trends correctly, but I do think it would be less sufficient because even with bolster, people who do have the full 258 gear [which I will definitely one of no matter how things play here] will have slightly better teritary stat pool than those without and just being bumped by bolster effects.

 

I will support whatever you guys think is best, but I don't want to get a vote, I have no personal preference, like I said, I just want to see as many people happy in PVP as possible. [Except for Mercs and Snipers and Skank tanks, and of course, every single pub ] That's all I really care about for the sake of the game.

 

I'm mostly just in it for the bloodshed anyways.

Edited October 16, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Mournblood]

Your posts would indicate that you were playing during the 2.x era (I assume after server xfers opened), when most people talk about pvp gearing they are referring to late 3.x and 4.x when gearing was orders of magnitude faster:

 

Legacy Warzone Comms

Individual mods/enhancements could be purchased

No Ranked Warzone Comms.

 

In 4.x 204 gear was all but "free" and getting 208 was so fast that you couldn't really label it a grind.

 

That, is an excellent point. And yes, I've been playing the game since day 1, so when Expertise was first rolled out, like most things in this game, it was very poorly thought out and badly implemented, which resulted in a rather unpleasant experience that left a very bad taste in a lot of frowning mouths. Though I can't be on the only one who was playing back then who remembers that.

 

Still, my earlier suggestion still stands. Adjusting Bolster (and perhaps taking the opportunity to fix it) would be much easier and a more plausible solution given the resource constraints of the development team, without all the work they would have to do to reintroduce Expertise sets.

[Syal]

Bioware proof once again that they do not listen its community !

[memerobot]

Still, my earlier suggestion still stands. Adjusting Bolster (and perhaps taking the opportunity to fix it) would be much easier and a more plausible solution given the resource constraints of the development team, without all the work they would have to do to reintroduce Expertise sets.

 

3 things will come out of this.

 

1) You won't have the stats that you want. Imagine spending so much time to have a specific setup and bolster just gives you a middle finger and changes the way they were (not by much but still will do that).

 

2) Whoever has 230 gear will be the same as those who did the grind on their asses to reach full 248 + augments thus making it unfair for the ones who worked really hard for desirable stats

 

3) Bolster will be exploited to do absurd damage once again

[Rafiknoll]

1) You won't have the stats that you want. Imagine spending so much time to have a specific setup and bolster just gives you a middle finger and changes the way they were (not by much but still will do that).

 

I agree with this problem, but it is less terrible than the upcoming situation.

 

2) Whoever has 230 gear will be the same as those who did the grind on their asses to reach full 248 + augments thus making it unfair for the ones who worked really hard for desirable stats

 

People who "grinded" via PVP only simply played more PVP. If they played normally there really is not so much of a difference, and if they lost on purpose to get rewards faster and now feel it was a waste of time they deserve it. It basically only harms people who choose to farm via methods that they don't consider at all enjoyable, in which case, why did they do it in the first place?

 

3) Bolster will be exploited to do absurd damage once again

 

Not if it absolutely disregards all gear and gives fixed stats for each spec of each class

[Lundorff]

As for labelling the desire NOT to return to Expertise sets as self-destructive and baseless, and calling those that are against it self-entitled? Wow. That is complete vitriolic nonsense. If you want to state your opinion, however contrary, that's fine. But leave the insults out of the discussion, please, or simply refrain from posting if you can't conduct yourself like an adult.

 

Okay yes, sorry for being an ***. I just get somewhat defensive on this topic. The benefits of having separate gear are just so enormous and clear-cut and the drawbacks are miniscule.

[memerobot]

I agree with this problem, but it is less terrible than the upcoming situation.

 

It is actually worse than you think. I remember when I bought my own 230/236 gear. I had 1800 crit with alac on 400(carnage mara) and bolster lowered it to 1600 crit and boosted alac to almost 1k and pulled accuracy out of someone's a*s up to 300's even though I had no form of accuracy through enhancements, augments or stims. Don't say it doesn't screw up because it does and more than you think.

 

People who "grinded" via PVP only simply played more PVP. If they played normally there really is not so much of a difference, and if they lost on purpose to get rewards faster and now feel it was a waste of time they deserve it. It basically only harms people who choose to farm via methods that they don't consider at all enjoyable, in which case, why did they do it in the first place?

 

Who the hell says I don't enjoy doing PvP? I actually love doing PvP. Yes, it is upsetting that scrubs nowadays go for numberfarming and that is why whenever I play solo, I do the same or be the node defender and when I play in group, we solely go objectives.

 

Not if it absolutely disregards all gear and gives fixed stats for each spec of each class

 

Excuse me, wth? How do you give "specific stats for each specific class"?

 

Edit: I know my speech is being rude but I don't intend to be that way. I just facepalm whenever these topics arise.

Edited October 16, 2018 by memerobot

[Lundorff]

Excuse me, wth? How do you give "specific stats for each specific class"?

 

Concept: you ignore whatever stats the character has when entering, and the provide a predefined set of stats based on class. Say a dps jugg would have XXXX crit, XXX alacrity, XXX acuracy. A dps guardian would have the exact same stats. This way bolster does not rely on whatever random stats the player has when he enters.

 

Problem: This is BW and they will end up giving Mercs 1800 Accuracy, Juggs 0 Crit and Sorcerers 0 Alacrity etc. They are absolutely 100% not capable of creating fixed, usable stats for PVP. And frankly it would also be somewhat boring when you can not experiment.

 

Solution: PVP gear! Tadada

Edited October 16, 2018 by Lundorff

[memerobot]

Concept: you ignore whatever stats the character has when entering, and the provide a prefefined set of stats based on class. Say a dps jugg would have XXXX crit, XXX alacrity, XXX acuracy. A dps guardian would have the exact same stats. This way bolster does not rely on whatever random stats the player has when he enters.

 

Problem: This is BW and they will end up giving Mercs 1800 Accuracy, Juggs 0 Crit and Sorcerers 0 Alacrity etc. They are absolutely 100% not capable of creating fixed, usable stats for PVP. And frankly it would also be somewhat boring when you can not experiment.

 

Solution: PVP gear! Tadada

 

What a f*cked up and somewhat dumb suggestion

[Lundorff]

What a f*cked up and somewhat dumb suggestion

 

If done by someone who really, really knows how to optimize the classes it could actually work. Take a team of geeky theory-crafters and have them nitpick this to death and it could work. But this is BW so....

[Mournblood]

3 things will come out of this.

 

1) You won't have the stats that you want. Imagine spending so much time to have a specific setup and bolster just gives you a middle finger and changes the way they were (not by much but still will do that).

 

2) Whoever has 230 gear will be the same as those who did the grind on their asses to reach full 248 + augments thus making it unfair for the ones who worked really hard for desirable stats

 

3) Bolster will be exploited to do absurd damage once again

 

Hence why I included this part in parens when referring to Bolster: (and perhaps taking the opportunity to fix it).

 

I know there's problems with Bolster. I'm well aware of ALL of them. It needs to be fixed whether it's used as a solution to the current tier 5 gearing dilemma or not. So why not get two birds with one stone? They can finally fix it, AND give PvPers a pass on a fairly lopsided gear grind that would force many of them into content that they would otherwise have no interest in doing. Fixing Bolster would address your first and third points.

 

As for the loss of time/effort to get full 248 gear in your second point, I get what you're saying here, but I'd much rather see them use Bolster than bring back Expertise for the sake of player participation. If you take a step back to think about the bigger picture here, if they did bring back Expertise gear, you'll see a lot less people in both WZ and Ranked queues. One of the reasons we saw an increase in players participating in PvP was because there was no longer a 2nd set of gear that more traditional PvEers needed to grind just to do PvP. When they got rid of Expertise sets, it allowed players to step into PvP with their PvE gear and still be able to compete on some level. Granted, it did introduce (re-introduce, technically) the problem with under-geared players in PvP, but I'd rather see that than dead queues.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Mournblood

[Raansu]

The Expertise sets effectively forced PvPers who also happened to enjoy PvE to grind two sets of gear. And at the time, I was doing both 8v8 Ranked and progression raiding. It wasn't fun grinding two sets of gear on multiple characters.

 

So what? PvP and PvE are two massively seperate kinds of content. There should 100% be gear balanced for both types of content. Not this nonsense of 1 gear set for all.

[Glower]

They just don’t seem to understand that for every action there is a reaction.

If there is no consideration of what that reaction will be, then it’s a recipe for disaster.

And I think this is why the game is in the situation it is. Bioware just don’t consider if the negative reactions will out weigh the positive when they implement something.

I’m not even sure they think there will be negative affects. It seems they don’t do a risk analysis before moving forward.

 

You cannot read negative data from metrics for new changes because there is no metrics for these changes yet. And in past years they only talked about metrics, but not the player experience or testers feedback. So this may be true.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Glower

[Rion_Starkiller]

Looks like your pvp weekly will get you one crystal as well.

 

The problem will be that a "pure" pvper will have to do Ossus weeklies to build up 10k rep to buy the gear. Good luck.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[memerobot]

Hence why I included this part in parens when referring to Bolster: (and perhaps taking the opportunity to fix it).

 

I know there's problems with Bolster. I'm well aware of ALL of them. It needs to be fixed whether it's used as a solution to the current tier 5 gearing dilemma or not. So why not get two birds with one stone? They can finally fix it, AND give PvPers a pass on a fairly lopsided gear grind that would force many of them into content that they would otherwise have no interest in doing. Fixing Bolster would address your first and third points.

 

As for the loss of time/effort to get full 248 gear in your second point, I get what you're saying here, but I'd much rather see them use Bolster than bring back Expertise for the sake of player participation. If you take a step back to think about the bigger picture here, if they did bring back Expertise gear, you'll see a lot less people in both WZ and Ranked queues. One of the reasons we saw an increase in players participating in PvP was because there was no longer a 2nd set of gear that more traditional PvEers needed to grind just to do PvP. When they got rid of Expertise sets, it allowed players to step into PvP with their PvE gear and still be able to compete on some level. Granted, it did introduce (re-introduce, technically) the problem with under-geared players in PvP, but I'd rather see that than dead queues.

 

Or just make the damned gear be acquired just fairly easier. It's dumb as it is now, if it continues.

"Hurrdurr its unfair PvE have to grind gear" What about PvPers?

They also had to grind. A return of expertise wouldn't shoo away players at all since everyone would start from scratch again.

[Raansu]

Or just make the damned gear be acquired just fairly easier. It's dumb as it is now, if it continues.

"Hurrdurr its unfair PvE have to grind gear" What about PvPers?

They also had to grind. A return of expertise wouldn't shoo away players at all since everyone would start from scratch again.

 

Starting from scratch is the MO of MMO's. Ya'll should be used to that at this point......That said, if we got the 4.x grind back I'd have zero problems starting from scratch. Would only take me a Saturday to full gear out my main, and even faster for alts with legacy warzone commendations.

[memerobot]

Starting from scratch is the MO of MMO's. Ya'll should be used to that at this point......That said, if we got the 4.x grind back I'd have zero problems starting from scratch. Would only take me a Saturday to full gear out my main, and even faster for alts with legacy warzone commendations.

 

Exactly!

[Totemdancer]

Your posts would indicate that you were playing during the 2.x era (I assume after server xfers opened), when most people talk about pvp gearing they are referring to late 3.x and 4.x when gearing was orders of magnitude faster:

 

Legacy Warzone Comms

Individual mods/enhancements could be purchased

No Ranked Warzone Comms.

 

In 4.x 204 gear was all but "free" and getting 208 was so fast that you couldn't really label it a grind.

 

Yep. 4.x pvp gearing was the best in the game. Less than two weeks and you could have a full ranked set. Then maybe another week to buy other mods or enhancements to really BiS.

And that was just doing the dailies and weekly.

[Totemdancer]

So what? PvP and PvE are two massively seperate kinds of content. There should 100% be gear balanced for both types of content. Not this nonsense of 1 gear set for all.

 

And if you have 2 sets, they could also use it to tweak a classes balance in the seperate content instead of nerfing or buffing it.

 

Plus, if people are serious about pvp and pve as seperate entities, they will have double of some gear anyway because what’s good in pve isn’t always the same for pvp.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Totemdancer

[Totemdancer]

That said, if we got the 4.x grind back I'd have zero problems starting from scratch. Would only take me a Saturday to full gear out my main, and even faster for alts with legacy warzone commendations.

 

Agreed.

 

I might even go back to playing more for fun instead of not playing because it feels like a job.

 

Bring back the exact 4.x gearing system.

[Aeneas_Falco]

How I'd fix bolster....

 

Give everyone a customizable bolster menu as part of their character sheet. Every player has the same amount of unallocated stat points based on their spec. At any time while not currently in a warzone or arena, a player can go into that menu and assign or reassign stats as they see fit. X amount of points into mastery, Y amount of points into Critical, Z amount of points into Alacrity, ect.

 

In that system everyone is boosted to 252 or current top gear tier but players can still have their individual customized builds, like for example a high alacrity build. The playing field is leveled without negating player choice in how they want to customize their character to fit their playing style or preferences.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Aeneas_Falco