Why is there no kill option for Lana?

[Elessara]

You know, I don't think all this stuff deserves to be heaped on Theron. What it should be heaped on is the lazy writing and hiring of temps to come in and do work with characters they knew little about. Seriously watching a youtube video about a comp misses all of the nuances gathered during the vanilla phase of the game. A writer that doesn't know the history of the game can't possibly know to write in the depths of relationships and what they encountered together. Who knows who and why or what. The Outlander if a Jedi should've known Kaliyo too, they met when Doc went to help Nemro. So many missed opportunities cause of laziness and ignorance.

 

Just a little nitpick here ... a JK can actually say to Kaliyo something to the effect of, "Haven't we met before? Aren't you Doc's friend?" ... to which Kaliyo will say something like, "I know a lot of doctors."

 

Now back to our scheduled silly (in my point of view) flamewar between Lana and Theron.

[DarthEnrique]

I for one am tired if companion kill offs, I have lost many companions that I didn’t kill that became cardboard cut outs thanks to the kill option and now the same will happen with Theron thanks to his recent kill option, and he is all my toons’ LI so that makes it even worse. Lana does not deserve the same fate, it is bad enough she is going to be pushed to the side now in 6.0 cause the writers want to. It is ridiculous as they are your second in command through SoR and KOTFE and KOTET. Also, if you paid attention to the story Lana said she rescued you because of your abilities to change the galexy and she felt you were the only one who could do that after the Eternal Empire’s chokehold on the galaxy. Edited October 14, 2018 by DarthEnrique

[IoNonSoEVero]

You know, I don't think all this stuff deserves to be heaped on Theron. What it should be heaped on is the lazy writing and hiring of temps to come in and do work with characters they knew little about. Seriously watching a youtube video about a comp misses all of the nuances gathered during the vanilla phase of the game. A writer that doesn't know the history of the game can't possibly know to write in the depths of relationships and what they encountered together. Who knows who and why or what. The Outlander if a Jedi should've known Kaliyo too, they met when Doc went to help Nemro. So many missed opportunities cause of laziness and ignorance.

 

I don't think anyone is "heaping it on Theron." The post that was being responded to was blaming Lana for not finding the companions.

 

The point that was trying to be made was that *neither* of them connected you with many companions, most of the AAs came from the Alliance Specialists. and when connections were made, they were very sloppy. None of the specialists, Theron or Lana ever seemed to recognize the companions from your own class that they were ostensibly looking for. The sloppiness (in the writing) includes:

 

1. The bounty hunter not recognizing Hylo Visz immediately. Gault talks a lot about Hylo during the class story.

2. Theron not being aware the Trooper's companion or spouse was with Havoc Squad when they were going to meet them.

3. Theron sending a letter to introduce M1-X to the trooper.

4. Lana doing the same to introduce Pierce to the Sith Warrior.

5. Nothing really said about a Republic character's history with Oggurobb if they did Makeb.

6. Lana not recognizing Quinn or Elara on Iokath

7. Beywan making a comment to my Jedi about their participation in Kuat when my Jedi had nothing to do with Kuat

8. The Jedi Knight never asking T7-O1 what happened to the rest of the crew

 

Lana put her life on the line for the Alliance and the PC a lot too. There are three or four times in the story she literally is ready to sacrifice her life for the PC. She throws herself in front of the PC to save them when she thinks there's danger in the train on Umbara. She's right there with Theron fighting to protect the PC in the final chapter of KOTET and she refuses to sell Theron out when he gets hurt. But that gets undervalued.

Edited October 14, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Lunafox]

Just a little nitpick here ... a JK can actually say to Kaliyo something to the effect of, "Haven't we met before? Aren't you Doc's friend?" ... to which Kaliyo will say something like, "I know a lot of doctors."

 

Now back to our scheduled silly (in my point of view) flamewar between Lana and Theron.

 

I guess the choices I made didn't lead me there, cause I don't remember that. Hmm, or maybe I'm senile

[Lunafox]

I don't think anyone is "heaping it on Theron." The post that was being responded to was blaming Lana for not finding the companions.

 

The point that was trying to be made was that *neither* of them connected you with many companions, most of the AAs came from the Alliance Specialists. and when connections were made, they were very sloppy. None of the specialists, Theron or Lana ever seemed to recognize the companions from your own class that they were ostensibly looking for. The sloppiness (in the writing) includes:

 

1. The bounty hunter not recognizing Hylo Visz immediately. Gault talks a lot about Hylo during the class story.

2. Theron not being aware the Trooper's companion or spouse was with Havoc Squad when they were going to meet them.

3. Theron sending a letter to introduce M1-X to the trooper.

4. Lana doing the same to introduce Pierce to the Sith Warrior.

5. Nothing really said about a Republic character's history with Oggurobb if they did Makeb.

6. Lana not recognizing Quinn or Elara on Iokath

7. Beywan making a comment to my Jedi about their participation in Kuat when my Jedi had nothing to do with Kuat

8. The Jedi Knight never asking T7-O1 what happened to the rest of the crew

 

Lana put her life on the line for the Alliance and the PC a lot too. There are three or four times in the story she literally is ready to sacrifice her life for the PC. She throws herself in front of the PC to save them when she thinks there's danger in the train on Umbara. She's right there with Theron fighting to protect the PC in the final chapter of KOTET and she refuses to sell Theron out when he gets hurt. But that gets undervalued.

 

I question if you made it past the first line I wrote about Theron. My point was that none of the proper connections were made by anyone, because of sloppy lazy writing and shuffling the work out to interns and temps that have no real connection to the game and learn by youtube. That was my point. If the companions aren't making certain connections or recognition of faces and history, it's because it wasn't written for them. That doesn't make the characters dim or stupid, it means their writers dropped the bloody ball.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I question if you made it past the first line I wrote about Theron. My point was that none of the proper connections were made by anyone, because of sloppy lazy writing and shuffling the work out to interns and temps that have no real connection to the game and learn by youtube. That was my point. If the companions aren't making certain connections or recognition of faces and history, it's because it wasn't written for them. That doesn't make the characters dim or stupid, it means their writers dropped the bloody ball.

 

Yes, I did make it past the first line, and we are actually in full agreement on this point, but the first line was that you felt Theron was being blamed for something.

 

And I find it very interesting that the claim of sloppy writing will be used to excuse actions for some characters (Theron, Quinn, Andronikos in his AA) but that others aren't given the same benefit of the doubt.

Edited October 14, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Elessara]

8. The Jedi Knight never asking T7-O1 what happened to the rest of the crew

 

Another little nitpick! The JK can ask T7 where everyone else is. If I remember correctly it's right after you begin Chapter 7, and you're with Senya and you're entering the service tunnels to get to the old world part of Zakuul.

 

Also, the BH can recognize Hylo. The BH might not say something right then and there when Theron is first introducing everyone but afterwards when you go and meet Hylo one on one, then the BH can say something. Doesn't mean the BH didn't actually recognize her right off the bat. Also, the BH only ever heard the name from Gault during his personal convo line, it's not like they ever met her.

 

Also also, if you've done Makeb (before doing chapter 9 of KotFE) then Dr. Oggoruob will say, something like, "We meet again" during the introductions and then later when you're talking to him one on one he'll say something like, "I hoped we would have the chance to work together again" and other things that reference they've met before.

 

The Beywan thing you mentioned is interesting b/c I know that if my characters have at least done the initial Kuat quest where you pick up the quest and then zone into the FP and talk to him, then he will mention it in Chapter 9 but on the characters where I haven't even done that he won't mention it. I don't even bother to actually do the FP, I just do enough to complete that quest.

 

... can you tell I've played these chapters way too much? lol

Edited October 14, 2018 by Elessara

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

This will never be a subject everyone will agree on. Some people take Therons side and some don't. I've sited my reasons [in more depth than I should have for brevity sake heh] why I feel he is a traitor and not an unsung hero no one understands, I truly don't see that at all.

 

Than there is the Theron camp whom no matter how many things about why he is a traitor and untrustworthy from the other camp, nothing will ever make them change their minds.

 

I agree it's bad that people who like Theron have to lose him but that's the writers fault and I don't feel bad for wanting to kill Theron, he deserves it as far as my character, a Darklord of the Sith is concerned. Even from a personal POV [the player not the character] I see him as a traitor.

 

Some people just want to kill Lana because they think that Theron isn't the peice of crude that he is. Furthermore, even if you take the view he did wrong, it;s not inconcievable some people might choose to forgive him, so even tho he is guilty, if people could forgive space Hitler Arcaan, they can forgive Theron. I have no problem with that being a choice and I don't think it shouldn't be an option to forgive him, it should be as he is an LI.

 

Where you have disagreements like this that both sides won't budge on, a kill option is enivitable. It isn't wrong that some players don't want to forgive or want to mount his head over the mantle, perfectly acceptable reactions for what he has done in the perspective of some. People who want to kill him aren't being any more unreasonable than those who want to forgive him [which I think is stupid as hell and even still I support the pption to forgive him].

 

The only wrong done here is the writters writting perfectly legitimate circumstances for people to want a kill option for. They need to stop making LIs do things that would make some players want to kill them over. Because as long as they keep on doing that, people will lose LI comps and under perfectly reasonable causes in the minds of some.

 

Hopefully the devs have taken note of these discussion and in the future they will not write LI comps into a corner. If they are a LI option don't make them betray the player's character or even do anything that might be questionable in that regard. Additionally, I hope it will turn out that the real Theron, being the stupid pub that he is, tripped and fell into the carboniite freezing chamber the player was in for 5 years and the traitor Theron was just a clone. I'd be fine with that. Win/Win.

 

Baring that, This string is really just about misery enjoying company and having irrational responses to disappointments and wanting other innocent people [just like those who like theron are] to be upset too.

 

To the OP, feel free to try and convince the devs to give Lana a kill option for no good reason just because I lite Theron's *** up. I'm nonetheless sorry you're losing Theron, I take no pleasure in that as a player.

 

Two wrongs making a right, that's some bad Mojo right there!

[IoNonSoEVero]

Another little nitpick! The JK can ask T7 where everyone else is. If I remember correctly it's right after you begin Chapter 7, and you're with Senya and you're entering the service tunnels to get to the old world part of Zakuul.

 

Also, the BH can recognize Hylo. The BH might not say something right then and there when Theron is first introducing everyone but afterwards when you go and meet Hylo one on one, then the BH can say something. Doesn't mean the BH didn't actually recognize her right off the bat. Also, the BH only ever heard the name from Gault during his personal convo line, it's not like they ever met her.

 

Also also, if you've done Makeb (before doing chapter 9 of KotFE) then Dr. Oggoruob will say, something like, "We meet again" during the introductions and then later when you're talking to him one on one he'll say something like, "I hoped we would have the chance to work together again" and other things that reference they've met before.

 

The Beywan thing you mentioned is interesting b/c I know that if my characters have at least done the initial Kuat quest where you pick up the quest and then zone into the FP and talk to him, then he will mention it in Chapter 9 but on the characters where I haven't even done that he won't mention it. I don't even bother to actually do the FP, I just do enough to complete that quest.

 

... can you tell I've played these chapters way too much? lol

 

Huh! I missed T7 in that case. If it's near the convo with Senya it would make sense, since I spacebar through her as much as I possibly can. I am sorry that I missed a chat with the little guy!

 

I didn't get the Oggurobb comment about Makeb, but I did get the one about Kuat even though my Jedi never did that quest at all- I was really wishing for a convo option that was "what are you talking about?" Maybe the flags for my JK were just bugged.

 

I usually go through KOTFE with Imperial Force users, so I guess I missed the BH thing too. I'm glad it's there!

[Elessara]

Huh! I missed T7 in that case. If it's near the convo with Senya it would make sense, since I spacebar through her as much as I possibly can. I am sorry that I missed a chat with the little guy!

 

I didn't get the Oggurobb comment about Makeb, but I did get the one about Kuat even though my Jedi never did that quest at all- I was really wishing for a convo option that was "what are you talking about?" Maybe the flags for my JK were just bugged.

 

I usually go through KOTFE with Imperial Force users, so I guess I missed the BH thing too. I'm glad it's there!

 

You didn't miss much with T7. It really was two lines, "Hey where is everyone?" and "Beep boop beep *I have no idea*".

 

I wouldn't be surprised if flags got a little wonky for some characters. It seems to happen.

[Elessara]

This will never be a subject everyone will agree on. Some people take Therons side and some don't. <snip blah blah blah>

 

Not everyone who likes Theron (I do) wants to kill off Lana (I don't). Which is why I find this whole Lana vs. Theron thing to be quite silly. I like them both so I'm just rolling my eyes at the "I hate Theron" crowd AND the "I hate Lana" crowd.

 

People getting a little hostile in this thread ... kiss and make up (tongue or not, up to you), hug it out ... I don't know. There's no right or wrong in this argument just a bunch of opinions.

[Damask_Rose]

And I find it very interesting that the claim of sloppy writing will be used to excuse actions for some characters (Theron, Quinn, Andronikos in his AA) but that others aren't given the same benefit of the doubt.

 

Personally, I use the claim of sloppy writing to give ALL characters a pass, as long it does seem to be sloppy writing and not deliberate writing. For instance, I give Lana a pass for not remembering Quinn or Dorne, because that clearly reeks of being sloppy writing, but I'm not inclined to give Ashara a pass because her behavior seems like a very deliberate choice by the writer to give Ashara's "personal growth" precedence over staying true to established lore for Sith. I got flak for making that distinction in another thread because, apparently some people believe that everything written should carry the same weight of acceptance.

 

Now some of what you are lumping under "excuses" is simply a matter of a player preferring an interpretation of a personality or action that is different from the one one you chose. There is often more than one interpretation that is supported by the game, and unless the author comes out and confirms them, like Quinn's did, there is only guess work on which interpretation is correct or if both are. Since I don't choose the options to be a douche to my companions, my interpretations of their personalities and actions can be very different from someone who likes to be a douche to their companions. And we are probably both right! Yay for the game having subtlety and complexity!

[Kiesu]

Personally, I use the claim of sloppy writing to give ALL characters a pass, as long it does seem to be sloppy writing and not deliberate writing.

Imo writing is like bible when it comes to character development. We cant just cherry pick what we want to believe to form a realistic character image. Otherwise it'll become tinted and suddenly everyone thinks differently of the character, when every fact might not be a fact because someone thought it was sloppy writing therefor not a fact.

 

Marilyn quote suits fictional characters just as well: "I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best". Real people do bad decisions and act out from time to time, so why not fictional.

 

We have a ginormous amount of questionable writing in SW lore already, for decades worth. It doesn't make them any less canon or not worthy of referring to.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Kiesu

[Damask_Rose]

Imo writing is like bible when it comes to character development. We cant just cherry pick what we want to believe to form a realistic character image. Otherwise it'll become tinted and suddenly everyone thinks differently of the character, when every fact might not be a fact because someone thought it was sloppy writing therefor not a fact.

 

This is just one of those areas where we will have to politely disagree. I think something as large and complex as this game, with numerous alternate versions of the stories and character personalities, it becomes unworkable if you don't give priority to some things over others, and obvious mistakes should be the first things de-emphasized. If the writing team had better quality control than they do, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Damask_Rose

[Kiesu]

This is just one of those areas where we will have to politely disagree. I think something as large and complex as this game, with numerous alternate versions of the stories and character personalities, it becomes unworkable if you don't give priority to some things over others, and obvious mistakes should be the first things de-emphasized. If the writing team had better quality control than they do, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

Obvious plot holes are one thing. Obvious shift in character personality is another. As much as I hate Rian's version of Luke, no matter how much it conflicts with every other piece of writing of him, it is unfortunately canon, and I cannot cherry wish it away, no matter how much I'd want to.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Kiesu

[IoNonSoEVero]

This is just one of those areas where we will have to politely disagree. I think something as large and complex as this game, with numerous alternate versions of the stories and character personalities, it becomes unworkable if you don't give priority to some things over others, and obvious mistakes should be the first things de-emphasized. If the writing team had better quality control than they do, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

 

I think it's a fair and valid point that there isn't just one canon interpretation of the game's story or characters given how many moving parts (story choices, etc.) are involved. And there have been times in the game when there have clearly been errors that made it past QC, such as companions after KOTET thinking you've only been gone for six years.

 

But I've also seen instances on this board where two characters will have identical or similar actions, and one will be roasted while the other's transgression will be conveniently ignored.

Edited October 14, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[JennyFlynn]

But I've also seen instances on this board where two characters will have identical or similar actions, and one will be roasted while the other's transgression will be conveniently ignored.

 

Yep, plenty people are guilty of this. They're biased and thus more forgiving toward their own favorite. Theron fans do it, Lana fans do it. I'm fairly certain I also recall someone here admit the biggest reason for their Theron hate is the behavior of Theron fans. Not his actual character, not the persona Theron, but due to his fans. Wanting Theron dead and giving Theron abuse because some of his fans behave in toxic ways on these forums. That's a whole new level of petty behavior in my opinion. If that's how you choose to deal with this Theron vs. Lana situation then you really have no business pretending to be on some moral high ground or complaining about how your favorite is mistreated/misunderstood by others because you're just as bad, if not worse.

 

Anyway, this debate is about as useful as the discussion of pineapple on pizza. Some swear by it, others hate it and want the pineapple to die a painful death. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yep, plenty people are guilty of this. They're biased and thus more forgiving toward their own favorite. Theron fans do it, Lana fans do it. I'm fairly certain I also recall someone here admit the biggest reason for their Theron hate is the behavior of Theron fans. Not his actual character, not the persona Theron, but due to his fans. Wanting Theron dead and giving Theron abuse because some of his fans behave in toxic ways on these forums. That's a whole new level of petty behavior in my opinion. If that's how you choose to deal with this Theron vs. Lana situation then you really have no business pretending to be on some moral high ground or complaining about how your favorite is mistreated/misunderstood by others because you're just as bad, if not worse.

 

Anyway, this debate is about as useful as the discussion of pineapple on pizza. Some swear by it, others hate it and want the pineapple to die a painful death. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Well, the irony of that statement is that if you look back, I was actually one of the people who strongly spoke out AGAINST a kill option for Theron, despite my hatred for him. I've said over and over again that I don't want kill options for anyone, regardless of my personal feelings for that character. I've also said that I felt the kill for Quinn was pointless and gratuitous even though he's a character I loathe.

 

So if you're going to try to throw things back in people's faces, at least be accurate about it.

 

I've been pretty clear that my hatred for Theron has the most to do with the way some - not all, probably not even most, but some - his fans have behaved, yes. Sometimes things are ruined for you by outside forces, and that is how it is. The same way some songs that are associated with SOs become unlistenable if you break up.

 

You're welcome to feel that is petty, but it really doesn't affect anyone else's game at all if I have Theron roasting on a bonfire in my stronghold (and before anyone screams, it's a metaphor; I don't want him anywhere near my toons' SHs). It does affect me when people's requests end up getting a character I like removed from the game, regardless of what it does to anyone else.

Edited October 14, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Kiesu]

Anyway, this debate is about as useful as the discussion of pineapple on pizza. Some swear by it, others hate it and want the pineapple to die a painful death. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I never understood this level of intense hatred towards fictional characters. Or pineapples. They're gosh darn writing on paper and fruits. Wave your hand at them as their chapter passes by and don't pick them up at the grocery shop. Rising a furious petition to lynch all pineapples and stop slicing pieces of fiction on a flat bread dough is so... what even.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Kiesu

[Lunafox]

...but I'm not inclined to give Ashara a pass because her behavior seems like a very deliberate choice by the writer to give Ashara's "personal growth" precedence over staying true to established lore for Sith.

 

I agree with all of what you said, but especially this.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Imo writing is like bible when it comes to character development. We cant just cherry pick what we want to believe to form a realistic character image. Otherwise it'll become tinted and suddenly everyone thinks differently of the character, when every fact might not be a fact because someone thought it was sloppy writing therefor not a fact.

 

Marilyn quote suits fictional characters just as well: "I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best". Real people do bad decisions and act out from time to time, so why not fictional.

 

We have a ginormous amount of questionable writing in SW lore already, for decades worth. It doesn't make them any less canon or not worthy of referring to.

 

I tend to agree. "Head canon" is a contradiction in terms. If it comes from your head, it's not canon, it's just making crap up heh Role playing games are about responding to what the "Game master" tells you is happening, assuming the role of all NPCs that the characters will interact with. If they say NPC does X or says Y that's now what you have to respond to. You can say what you are doing, everyone else is hands off.

 

Sometimes people will do bad things, say hurtful words, act in ways you wouldn't have though they would and sometimes they people who you thought were loyal betray you. That's why divorce is such a big thing these days =p

 

If they say comp X is a traitor, than he's a traitor. If Comp Y tries to kill you, he tried to kill you even if you like them.

 

I didn't want to lose my sex kitten Jaesa for the last 2 + years in game, but, it wasn't up to me.

 

I didn't Force Choke Quinn to death because I was bored, I did it because he tried to kill me. I didn't leave Theron on Nathema to die because there wasn't enough room on the ship for him, I did it because he betrayed me and tried to kill me and shot Lana in what is my favorite breast of hers. - I didn't kill Arcann because he remined me of Mr. Clean and I hate Mr. Clean, I killed him because he was my enemy.

 

Call me kooky but when people try and kill me, I try and kill them back. Terrible of me, I know, just a character flaw of mine I guess.

 

I like Lana, she's literally the most loyal comp in the game and it's blatantly obvious she worships the ground you walk on, and I totally dig people who worship me, but should she ever try and kill me, I'll miss using her as a pin cushion 3 or 4 times a week. She covers it up, but under neath that cloak and apparrel, she's got a body built for sin, and I'd like to use it some more. But, if she comes at me, I won't have a choice, I'm an equal opportunity Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

No one's allowed to try and kill me and fail.

 

But, I'm calling it now, she won't ever try. I don't overlook that kind of loyalty. But, than again, it's not up to me, it's up to the writers and whatever they say happens, happens, whether I like it or not.

Edited October 14, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Damask_Rose]

But I've also seen instances on this board where two characters will have identical or similar actions, and one will be roasted while the other's transgression will be conveniently ignored.

 

In many (most) of these discussions, one group of players believes the actions/situations are similar but the other group of players believes they are fundamentally different. We all bring our own pasts & educations to bear on how we interpret things. Both camps should be respected. Just because you (not necessarily you you, but in general you) don't see the difference doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because you (again general you) don't see the importance of the difference doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Claiming people are hypocritical or biased because they see a fundamental difference in two scenarios is insultingly dismissive of those players.

 

I tend to agree. "Head canon" is a contradiction in terms. If it comes from your head, it's not canon, it's just making crap up heh Role playing games are about responding to what the "Game master" tells you is happening, assuming the role of all NPCs that the characters will interact with. If they say NPC does X or says Y that's now what you have to respond to. You can say what you are doing, everyone else is hands off.

 

I didn't Force Choke Quinn to death because I was bored, I did it because he tried to kill me. I didn't leave Theron on Nathema to die because there wasn't enough room on the ship for him, I did it because he betrayed me and tried to kill me and shot Lana in what is my favorite breast of hers. - I didn't kill Arcann because he remined me of Mr. Clean and I hate Mr. Clean, I killed him because he was my enemy.

 

Call me kooky but when people try and kill me, I try and kill them back. Terrible of me, I know, just a character flaw of mine I guess.

 

You will be happy to know then that according to the author, Quinn did not, in fact, try to kill you. He sabotaged the droids so you would win and you killing him would save face for him. So now you can stop choking him and embrace him for the extremely loyal companion he is. Quinn is every bit as loyal as Lana, so you should be thrilled to have another such Imperial at your side.

 

Of course, the story was also written in such a way that you are also correct if you chose to believe he did try to kill you but was incompetent. The writer was sneaky that way. Uh oh! There are two versions of the same story. Which is cannon? Both were intentional and endorsed by the writer. Neither are head cannon. Neither are mistakes. Who is to say the same situation doesn't exist for Theron? Unlike the author for the Warrior story, the author for fractured alliances hasn't spoken up about it. Some times if it looks like a duck and quack likes a duck, it's a spy trying to infiltrate the flock and not a duck at all.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Damask_Rose

[JennyFlynn]

Well, the irony of that statement is that if you look back, I was actually one of the people who strongly spoke out AGAINST a kill option for Theron, despite my hatred for him. I've said over and over again that I don't want kill options for anyone, regardless of my personal feelings for that character. I've also said that I felt the kill for Quinn was pointless and gratuitous even though he's a character I loathe.

 

So if you're going to try to throw things back in people's faces, at least be accurate about it.

 

I've been pretty clear that my hatred for Theron has the most to do with the way some - not all, probably not even most, but some - his fans have behaved, yes. Sometimes things are ruined for you by outside forces, and that is how it is. The same way some songs that are associated with SOs become unlistenable if you break up.

 

You're welcome to feel that is petty, but it really doesn't affect anyone else's game at all if I have Theron roasting on a bonfire in my stronghold (and before anyone screams, it's a metaphor; I don't want him anywhere near my toons' SHs). It does affect me when people's requests end up getting a character I like removed from the game, regardless of what it does to anyone else.

So you don't want him dead, fair, and frankly, I don't care whether you do or don't. Hate him all you want until the end of days, it makes no difference to me.

 

What does bother me is your audacity to bemoan the motivation other players have for disliking Lana. When your own reasons are skewed and biased ("I hate Theron because some of his fans are meanies!"), you are in no position to sit there and criticize others with comments such as;

 

Who wants to take bets on when the first "I hate 5.10 female companion/I want them dead" threads will start appearing from this bunch? My wager is the day after the patch drops. They'll play through and invent the usual reasons to worship the males, even if they're out there kicking puppies, and invent their usual reasons to find hate the females, all while screaming that the devs are sexist.

That comment reeks of judgment and insulting, dismissive behavior to the many and varying reasons others have for disliking Lana. Do you really think you're in any position to cry foul over Lana hatred when your hatred of Theron is rooted in your dislike toward some Theron fans?

 

Again, hate Theron however much you like and for whatever reason you like. Your reasons are your own and whether I think they're fair or not doesn't matter but don't sit there and act as if you walk some moral high ground.

[IoNonSoEVero]

In many (most) of these discussions, one group of players believes the actions/situations are similar but the other group of players believes they are fundamentally different. We all bring our own pasts & educations to bear on how we interpret things. Both camps should be respected. Just because you (not necessarily you you, but in general you) don't see the difference doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because you (again general you) don't see the importance of the difference doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Claiming people are hypocritical or biased because they see a fundamental difference in two scenarios is insultingly dismissive of those players.

 

Again, that's true, and valid. Context and experience are important. Both camps should be respected, and they're often not, and that's an issue, and I don't except myself from criticism on that count.

 

But for instance, on Ziost there's this spy that is monitoring two NPCs for Saresh. He's playing both of them. Neither of the NPCs find out unless the player tells them. The scene where the spy is revealed is almost identical for both of them, and they're both upset about it. But one of those NPCs has been burned at the stake all over this board for not finding the spy, while the other is never called on it. That's the sort of direct comparison I mean where there's a double standard. I'm not even saying names here.

 

At the end of the day, if it doesn't affect my game and I am not forced to look at it, I don't care if people love, hate or use characters for target practice. If someone wants to hate Lana, or worship Quinn, or have a shrine in their house and pray to Vaylin every day, it doesn't affect my game at all. If people have love threads, again, I scroll on by and don't bother anyone having their fun. My opinions on that don't matter.

 

When I care is when people's opinions negatively influence what happens in the game, and thus other players. Koth was killed off because people asked for it. The kill options began en masse because people wanted them, and it had the repercussion of removing characters from other people's games that they wanted to keep. So if people are going to let their hatred of Lana translate to removing her from everyone else's game, that becomes an issue, just as it's an issue for every other LI.

 

The killing options won't stop unless people start asking for them to stop. Even on characters they hate. Maybe it won't affect you if Lana is killed off and you'll throw confetti when she's gone, but it might bother you when Scourge, Jonas or someone else you like from 5.10 or 6.0 bites the dust and is written out because other fans want them dead.

[JakRoanin]

Even if I personally adored Lana with almost every character adoring her above all others in the SWU I'd still want a goodbye options for an Agent! It makes no sense for any Agent to love any Sith after the Dark Council tried to make them a droid!